[06:41] <didrocks> good morning
[06:51] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[07:01] <Laney> hi there!
[07:16] <didrocks> hey duflu, Laney
[07:45] <LocutusOfBorg> hello guys! can we please continue the ayatana discussion?
[07:46] <LocutusOfBorg> oh... seb is AFK...
[07:50] <Laney> oops
[07:51] <Laney> moin didrocks & duflu
[07:51] <Laney> LocutusOfBorg: yeh, he'll probably be around shortly
[07:51] <duflu> Hi Laney
[07:56] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:57] <Laney> moin seb128
[07:57] <Laney> how's it going?
[07:58] <LocutusOfBorg> hello seb128 :) I was mentioning just you :D
[07:58] <seb128> hey Laney! I got a bit of a cold but good otherwise! you?
[07:58] <seb128> hey LocutusOfBorg, what's up?
[08:00] <seb128> Laney, you guys had another late night, eating at like 23h? I don't know how you do it :p
[08:03] <Laney> seb128: slight sore through actually
[08:03] <Laney> wondering if that jadahl has infected me 😭
[08:03] <Laney> and yes, you know how this goes ...
[08:03] <Laney> we went to a monastery in the day so worked later, then eat later
[08:04] <seb128> yeah, I know how it goes :)
[08:04] <seb128> good that there are a few days to rest before GUADEC :p
[08:05] <Laney> yep, going to be required
[08:06] <Laney> didrocks: on the theme per release thing, can't you use the per gtk version directories inside one package?
[08:06] <LocutusOfBorg> seb128, ayatana switch :D
[08:06] <seb128> LocutusOfBorg, what about it?
[08:07] <didrocks> Laney: well, GNOME Shell isn't backward compatible theming-wise
[08:08] <didrocks> Laney: so, we still need to have one snap per release
[08:11] <Laney> oh this would be a nice addition ;-)
[08:16] <duflu> Oh, hi seb128
[08:18] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
[08:18] <duflu> seb128, going very well. I shall have a fix for the mutter-is-always-60.00Hz-issue today. You?
[08:18] <seb128> oh, nice
[08:18] <seb128> I'm good, just having a bit of a cold
[08:36] <LocutusOfBorg> [18:17:56] <LocutusOfBorg> folks, anybody wants to subscribe here?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libayatana-appindicator/+bug/1770146 :)
[08:36] <LocutusOfBorg> seb128, ^^
[08:36] <LocutusOfBorg> this is the discussion :)
[08:37] <seb128> LocutusOfBorg, my position about that didn't change since the previous discussion, I don't agree that the ayatana version is a obvious better option/what we should do until we at least review what is exactly needed, if things are going to keep working with GNOME and unity, if we can mix client from both libs, etc
[08:38] <seb128> that's a transition that needs an owner and review of the situation
[08:38] <seb128> not just something to wave in
[08:38] <seb128> so no
[08:38] <seb128> you don't get a subscriber here
[08:38] <seb128> or at least not the desktop team for now
[09:13] <duflu> didrocks, I got a small heart attack from your first presentation title, before it was fixed :)
[09:14] <didrocks> duflu: ahah, yeah, maybe something from my subconscient :p
[09:15] <LocutusOfBorg> ok seb128 can you please clarify what testing you want so I can do it?
[09:15] <LocutusOfBorg> stuff in universe already started switching to ayatana, the delta to keep the old version around might be really high
[09:15] <LocutusOfBorg> and seems that ayatana gives better upstream support and development
[09:18] <seb128> LocutusOfBorg, I feel like those a free claims not backed up by anything concrete at this point
[09:18] <seb128> no stable distribution is including that stack
[09:19] <seb128> is it used by default in any stable version of a distro/desktop yet?
[09:24] <LocutusOfBorg> debian should have it by default now?
[09:25] <LocutusOfBorg> at least in testing I would say
[09:25] <LocutusOfBorg> maybe we can switch this discussion to debian-devel irc channel on OFTC?
[09:25] <LocutusOfBorg> sunweaver has strong knowledge on the topic
[09:26] <seb128> I don't see how that would help, he's going to claim that it's a better maintained stack and that Debian is switching
[09:27] <seb128> which is fair enough and not something I can/want argue against
[09:28] <seb128> it doesn't change the fact that we didn't test it on our side yet and it didn't get much real world usage, Debian testing has a limited set of users and none of their desktop rely on indicators by default afaik (GNOME doesn't and they don't have Unity)
[09:30] <LocutusOfBorg> ok but cosmic-proposed is using it since the opening, did anybody complain yet?
[09:31] <LocutusOfBorg> s/is using/is already using/
[09:31] <LocutusOfBorg> the mix is already in place, and nobody complained so far I would say
[09:34] <didrocks> how many people are using cosmic at this stage?
[09:34] <didrocks> I'm still on bionic myself for instance
[09:36] <seb128> didrocks, it's not even cosmic, it's cosmic-proposed which is not meant to be used
[09:36] <seb128> LocutusOfBorg, I'm not sure cosmic-proposed as any user, and if even if it has I'm not sure those are the kind of users who cares about their indicators having issues
[09:37] <seb128> LocutusOfBorg, anyway, bottom line is that it's not tested enough for me to ack it at this point, I'm putting it on our backlog but I recommend for those changes to be rolled back for now if you want to unbloc things from proposed
[09:38] <seb128> even if we subscribe the MIRs still need to get reviewed which can take a while
[09:54] <LocutusOfBorg> seb128, I don't care to have a bunch of packages go in release, I prefer to avoid a delta
[09:55] <LocutusOfBorg> reverting the change is trivial enough, we can wait some more time if you think your backlog will take the point soon
[09:57] <LocutusOfBorg> muktupavels, ^^
[09:57] <LocutusOfBorg> see the discussion if you are interested in an answer wrt https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libayatana-appindicator/+bug/1770146/comments/7 :)
[09:58] <seb128> I'm going to comment on the bug
[09:58] <muktupavels> LocutusOfBorg: I did not see answer to that...
[09:59] <muktupavels> why that fork was needed in first place? why cant people just maintain original upstream project!?
[09:59] <LocutusOfBorg> muktupavels, this is something for upstream, not for me :)
[10:01] <seb128> that project was poorly handled imho
[10:01] <seb128> I had an email exchange about that with the guy who forked, who basically had no good reason
[10:01] <seb128> it would have made sense to just take over the existing projects
[10:03] <muktupavels> that is what I think. more work for no reason now...
[10:03] <muktupavels> better to drop fork and maintain original project
[10:06] <seb128> right, that was my recommendation as well but seems that got little traction
[10:06] <seb128> which leads us to where we are now
[10:06] <seb128> :-/
[10:19] <muktupavels> where is trevinho?
[10:19] <Trevinho> muktupavels: hi, here :)
[10:19] <muktupavels> trevinho: hi, do you have  time?
[10:19] <Trevinho> muktupavels: not so much now, can we talk next week?
[10:20] <muktupavels> trevinho: oh, ok. wanted more compiz reviews and one for libwnck. but I guess it can wait next week. :)
[10:21] <Laney> didrocks: if I tried to push https://paste.debian.net/1031132/ would that help you?
[10:23] <didrocks> Laney: there are other blockers for the snap side itself, but yeah, that could be a great fit! I'm a little bit afraid it won't get merged as there is no support for theming and it's understood it's unstable, but worth giving a try, thanks!
[10:41] <Laney> let's see how it goes
[11:47] <mdeslaur> is there a way to have the dock show preview windows in start order instead of recently used order?
[11:47] <mdeslaur> I just can't get used to stuff moving around all the time
[11:49] <didrocks> I don't think so, raise it with upstream?
[11:49] <didrocks> but I don't think it's a settings we want to add by default anyway (would have to be tweaked via gsettings)
[12:17] <willcooke> mdeslaur, is this the sort of thing:  https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/issues/686#issuecomment-395090794
[12:17] <gitlab-bot> micheleg issue 686 in dash-to-dock "Stacking order of window preview shifts" (comments: 1) [Open]
[12:18] <mdeslaur> willcooke: yeah, that looks like what I'm looking for
[12:18] <mdeslaur> thanks willcooke, didrocks
[12:18] <willcooke> I've had little traction upstream, so I might see if we can get it on the roadmap next cycle :)
[12:18] <willcooke> I looked at the code but failed
[12:18] <willcooke> I should try again
[12:26] <willcooke> Probably in here: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/blob/master/windowPreview.js
[12:55] <mdeslaur> willcooke: I'm guessing it needs a new sort function that uses get_stable_sequence
[13:00] <willcooke> mdeslaur, yeah I think so too, just looking at the code now
[13:40] <kenvandine> Trevinho, can you look at backporting this to 18.04?  https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/103
[13:40] <gitlab-bot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 103 in mutter "A couple of xdg foreign fixes" (comments: 1) [1. Bug, 5. Wayland, Merged]
[13:40] <kenvandine> Trevinho, that's needed for portal support on wayland
[13:41] <kenvandine> or just update mutter... but i guess jamesh has already asked you about that
[13:41] <jamesh> Trevinho: the fix is already in mutter 3.28.2
[13:55] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=mutter
[13:57] <kenvandine> Laney, awesome!
[13:57] <kenvandine> jamesh, ^^ 3.28.2 is in the queue
[13:57] <jamesh> awesome
[15:31] <seb128> k, time to enjoy a bit the nice weather, I'm going to look at the backlog/deal a few things a bit later though, so see you later or have a nice evening, depending
[15:32] <didrocks> enjoy your evening seb128
[15:37] <willcooke> see you seb128
[15:40] <k_alam> Hi, where is jbicha today? Anyone knows?
[17:23] <willcooke> night all