[00:08] <Bashing-om> TJ-: A red headed stranger ? Missed ya :P
[00:08] <daftykins> :O
[00:09] <TJ-> G'morning! How's everyone doing?
[00:09] <daftykins> all well here thanks :) how's your neck of the woods?
[00:10] <Bashing-om> TJ-: Going well here .. Did you get your 2nd hay cutting in ?
[00:12] <TJ-> We're sweltering in the heat like most people here; only got 1 crop of hay so far; started irrigating potatoes this week.
[00:12] <TJ-> I popped in to see if there's any channels on Freenode for visually impaired users, but it doesn't seem there is
[00:13] <TJ-> ubuntu-accessibility seems essentially empty too
[00:15] <daftykins> the alis bot could be of use?
[00:15] <daftykins> for channel finding
[00:16] <TJ-> That was my first port of call
[00:16] <Bashing-om> TJ-: No not know about accessibilities .. see what alis has to say about ' braille ' ?
[00:17] <TJ-> "End of Output" :p
[00:17] <Bashing-om> Yuk
[00:18] <daftykins> blows my mind sometimes when folks come in #kodi saying they're blind and have an issue, i just never imagine someone partially sighted even using such a visual program
[00:19] <TJ-> I'm volunteering for a local visual impairment charity, and developing a plan for using online services to help participation in an extremely wide-spread rural area. Part of that is finding a stable host for a couple of IRC channels instead of operating our own IRC server, so the service-users can easily expand into other communities
[00:20] <daftykins> is IRC really the right choice?
[00:20] <daftykins> not that i think too highly of all the many modern services that hang around, given how often messaging platforms rise and fall :)
[00:21] <TJ-> It's the only choice; works perfectly with text-to-speech software
[00:21] <hggdh> daftykins: I think not really bad, since it is basically text-mode (as opposed to graphical)
[00:21] <daftykins> right but a lot of the modern ones are the same
[00:21] <TJ-> No inline images that blind users would miss
[00:22] <daftykins> so were you gonna go to the freenode folks?
[00:22] <TJ-> It's perfect for generally tech-phobic users too; wrap it with an accessible web client (there are many) keyed to the community channel so the user doesn't need to understand IRC to get started.
[00:24] <daftykins> yeah that's only true given that part :D i still remember being new and wondering why there were servers
[00:26] <TJ-> Well, part of the plan is to develop a custom set of integrated F/OSS services accessed via a web-site for media (mostly audio) submission and editing, chat, document sharing and more ( for service-users, volunteers, and staff) so #project-devel and #project channels
[00:32] <daftykins> i think you just hate free time ;D
[00:34] <TJ-> What's that when it's at home? :)
[00:41] <Bashing-om> TJ-'s A-farm'n - there is no such thing as "free-time" . One never does enough ... and the more you do the more there is then to do .
[00:41] <TJ-> So true!
[00:41] <daftykins> :>
[04:29] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:05] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:26] <ducasse> good morning
[07:01] <lordievader> Hey ducasse
[07:01] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[07:07] <ducasse> i'm good, thanks - how about yourself?
[07:09] <lordievader> Doing okay. Was annoyed this morning when I found out that the default Ubuntu server image doesn't support lvm/raid.
[07:10] <lordievader> You need the alternate image for that appearantly.
[07:11] <ducasse> yes, the new installer isn't very flexible yet aiui
[07:19]  * lordievader wonders how many server installs do not make use of some kind of raid.
[07:40] <EriC^^> hey lordievader
[10:24] <daftykins> i run mines OS disks without RAID :)
[10:47] <lordievader> daftykins: How than? And why?
[10:48] <daftykins> the RAIDs on the storage, i don't want the OS anywhere near it
[11:31] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[11:32] <daftykins> good morning \o all well?
[11:34] <BluesKaj> hey daftykins, fine here, and you?
[11:34] <daftykins> yep not too bad thanks! seems to be a warm one again
[11:35] <BluesKaj> yup, forecasting 30C and 90% humidity here
[11:39] <EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
[11:39] <EriC^^> hey daftykins
[11:40] <daftykins> \o
[11:40] <BluesKaj> hey EriC^^
[16:29] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[16:31] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB :)
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> ty Bashing-om
[16:33] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Thus far ... Good day in our neighborhood .
[16:33] <lotuspsychje> anyone knows a tool that can kernel cleanup GUI besides bleachbit?
[16:34] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: ' autoremove ' fails to function ?
[16:34] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: well long story short, my customers dont use the terminal
[16:35] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: and they seem to avoid updating too lol
[16:35] <lotuspsychje> so unattended-upgrades are enabled, but im still looking for older kernels auto cleanup
[16:37] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Ho kay :) .. no, I am not aware of an alternate GUI tool for bleachbit.
[16:38] <daftykins> bit embarassing if Ubuntu still hasn't sorted that out
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> would be nice in software&updates tick an option: remove older kernels
[16:39] <nacc> daftykins: so far, i've still only seen cases where users have either manually installed a package, or simply never run autoremove
[16:39] <nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah, the problem is autoremove is not kernel specific
[16:39] <nacc> i guess they could do `sudo apt-get autoremove linux-*
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> yeah but as i mentioned nacc my users are GUI mostly
[16:39] <nacc> lotuspsychje: yeah
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> terminal,what?
[16:39] <nacc> lotuspsychje: might be a nice feature to add to update-manager
[16:40] <nacc> should be relatively easy to do i think
[16:40] <lotuspsychje> nacc: you think i could bug/wishlist it?
[16:40] <nacc> lotuspsychje: seems worthwhile in the ubuntu bug tracker at least
[16:40] <daftykins> if you can catch TJ i'm pretty sure he wrote a script for this, you could probably cron it on client systems
[16:41] <lotuspsychje> its an idea yeah daftykins
[16:41] <lotuspsychje> but love the idea of having this as a feature too
[16:41] <nacc> i think TJ's script is mostly useful when autoremove doesn't work
[16:41] <nacc> as in the user has already hosed their system, it does some manual rm and then does the n ormal dpkg/apt dance
[16:42] <daftykins> yeah i think it handles the edge case of when they're out of space and can't use APT, too
[16:42] <lotuspsychje> lets say the feature would purge last 2 'older' kernels every time
[16:42] <nacc> right, that's the manual rm part
[16:44] <daftykins> it's a very messy sitution becuse if you count backwards from a newly installing version, you want #1 to stay since it was working last, then #2 and #3 could go - *but* if the user is an update avoider, they may never have restarted to boot into #1
[16:45] <daftykins> blech :D
[16:45] <nacc> right, i believe one of the various tools figures that out
[16:46] <nacc> you always want to keep `uname -r`'s version
[16:46] <nacc> you also want to keep the 'two newest'
[16:46] <nacc> so take the intersection
[16:47] <daftykins> i was going to contact digitalocean and ask if they recommend livepatch being used with their VPSs o0
[16:48] <nacc> (full disclosure, i work for DO :)
[16:48] <daftykins> :o i feel like this is the first time i am hearing that, cool :D
[16:48] <nacc> daftykins: i changed a few months ago from canonical
[16:49] <daftykins> always been very impressed with the support i get
[16:49] <daftykins> ah neat :D
[16:50] <lotuspsychje> ill file a wishlist for it, who knows then
[16:50] <nacc> (I don't know the answer to your question, i'm on the systems (KVM) performance)
[16:51] <nacc> daftykins: i mean, livepatch has a limited # (3?)
[16:51] <daftykins> yeah
[16:51] <nacc> so doesn't seem particularly great for droplets
[16:51] <nacc> but it depens on how much you use it
[16:51] <daftykins> i saw the support rates for more, it is ouch
[16:51] <nacc> yeah
[16:51] <daftykins> right now i have 0 instances :D fine with update + reboot really
[16:51] <lotuspsychje> wich package should i file it, update-manager, unattended-upgrades or software&sources?
[16:52] <nacc> lotuspsychje: if it's specifically the gui side, update-manager
[16:52] <nacc> iirc
[16:52] <lotuspsychje> allrighty tnx
[16:53] <daftykins> now we play the waiting game :)
[16:53] <lotuspsychje> or find interested bug users :p
[16:54] <lotuspsychje> if we lucky next decade its a feature :p
[16:54] <daftykins> xD
[16:54] <lotuspsychje> now nacc is gone from canonical...
[16:54] <lotuspsychje> someone else will have to work harder
[17:01] <lotuspsychje> hows this looking? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1779723
[17:02] <oerheks> no ff61, but surprise; a fresh kernel
[17:02] <lotuspsychje> oerheks: lol
[17:02] <lotuspsychje> isitoutyet
[17:03] <lordievader> Solution: educate users?
[17:03] <nacc> uh... 41.6gb zip file?? must be pirated stuff, right?
[17:03] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: lets face reality, even windows is hard for them..next step the terminal?
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: could you wishlist bug #1779723 for me again plz?
[17:04] <nacc> i can do it too, one sec
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> oh tnx nacc
[17:05] <lordievader> I don't think they are going to use Linux if they find Windows hard.
[17:05] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: thats bit judging statement, got a lot of users running ubuntu like a charm
[17:06] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: done
[17:06] <lotuspsychje> ty hggdh ; )
[17:06] <hggdh> yw
[17:06] <lotuspsychje> u2 nacc
[17:06] <nacc> np
[17:06] <lotuspsychje> anyone read some news on .1 yet?
[17:06] <lordievader> I'm sure it is, but it is the way I think about it 😉
[17:06] <lotuspsychje> no early releasenotes somewhere?
[17:07] <nacc> lotuspsychje: they'd go on the normal bionic page
[17:07] <nacc> iirc
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> i respect your opinion lordievader, but my 80y old aunt is on ubuntu, she cant scramble system anymore where she was able on windows
[17:09] <lordievader> Fair enough.
[17:10] <leftyfb> lordievader: I can attest to my mother, 10yo sister and multiple residential customers of mine(2 of which in their 80's) all running Ubuntu without issue and found it better/easier than windows.
[17:10] <daftykins> do they all solely start the browser and then that's all they need? :)
[17:11] <oerheks> i miss the times, hitting update and come back an hour later
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: ive setup shotwell for my aunt also, the moment she branches camera, pics get synced auto to nautilus and she understands it too
[17:11] <leftyfb> daftykins: to be honest, most of them have actually either gone to a chromebook or no pc at all.
[17:12] <daftykins> syncing photos is a very old usage model i find
[17:12] <lotuspsychje> lol oerheks when i worked at mediamarket, launched 5 win laptops updates, and it was only next morning
[17:12] <daftykins> evidence: 70 year old client asking me to do it for them the other day
[17:12] <daftykins> :)
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> at year of the linux desktop, everything should be also GUI done
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> :p
[17:14] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: Do you mean something like this in your bug report: https://github.com/teejee2008/ukuu
[17:14] <lotuspsychje> lets see
[17:15] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: that's why it shall never be!
[17:15] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: nice find
[17:16] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: but i was more looking for like deleting the last 2 'oldest' instead of auto installing latest ones
[17:16] <lotuspsychje> normal updates already grabbin newest kernels right
[17:17] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: i also dont wanna risk users deleting newest kernel so they cant get in anymore lol
[17:18] <lotuspsychje> want a clean sandbox for them
[17:18] <lordievader> This one pulls them from the mainline ppa too, I think.
[17:19] <lordievader> Anyhow, it is up on github. You can add the functionality 😉
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> tnx for looking lordievader
[17:19] <lordievader> No problem.
[17:21] <daftykins> how come everyone's impatient for firefox 61 anyway? :) just looked at the changelog and don't see too much to rush for
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> i always remember this user in #ubuntu he got his system updating to all lts's never autoremoved..
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> got like 40 kernels in his list
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: it has quick tab switch so i hear...something to look forward too?
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> i guess we could test the snap :p firefox  61.0-3  mozilla
[17:23] <daftykins> dunno how you can get much quicker than ctrl+shift+tab / ctrl+tab :D
[17:23] <daftykins> or even ctrl+n!
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: think its preloading stuff
[17:42] <lordievader> daftykins: No idea, I use Chrome 😋
[17:43] <daftykins> i use both but updates come quick to Windows (:
[19:47]  * oerheks wait for the crosspost in ##linux
[19:48] <daftykins> o0
[20:26] <leftyfb> pretty sure we've got a troll that keeps coming back with different nicks/hosts
[20:31] <hggdh> and the same host
[20:32] <leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Zsfb5fxvjn/
[20:32] <leftyfb> it is the same host
[21:20] <leftyfb> god damn idiot that one
[21:21] <nacc> if i was mad at you and reading what you wrote, i would argue with you too
[21:21] <nacc> tbf to both of you
[21:46] <Bashing-om> And ... in other news .. UWN534 is out :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue534 .
[22:53]  * Allie` has an x201 now, running ubuntu MATE
[22:53] <Allie`> :D