=== pbek_ is now known as pbek
zygahey ho07:56
Chipacalet's go07:57
zygamorning :-)08:06
zygaovercast but warm today08:06
zygaChipaca: I wrote down my thoughts on daemon-notify: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/its-a-little-bit-hard-to-use-daemon-notify-for-sd-notify/636608:07
=== alan_g|EOD is now known as alan_g
zygaalso did a tweet storm on twitter :)08:07
Chipacazyga: I saw your tweets08:07
Chipacazyga: also yesterday's08:07
Chipacazyga: keep it up :-)08:07
zygathank you for the encouragement :)08:07
zygaI was wondering if those are useful08:07
zygaand how long I will keep it up08:08
zygauh, Guido resigned from Python08:12
zygathat's a biggie08:12
Chipacazyga: he got his calendar wrong, it's not april 108:13
Chipacamaybe it's some crazy dutch version of april fool's08:13
zygaI envision he will pick up gardening now08:13
zygaor sheep08:13
Chipacalike april fool's but more racist08:13
zygaso, the bottom line is08:14
zygaif you do something for fun and love08:14
zygadon't let others tell you how08:14
zygaI cannot imagine how he must feel08:14
Chipacazyga: and now you know why snapd team doesn't have a line manager08:16
popeyzyga: is there any particular reason you're doing long tweet threads rather than blog posts recently?08:42
zygapopey: experimenting with the format mainly08:43
popeyIf you collated those tweets together, they'd probably make great blog posts for snapcraft.io/blog08:43
zygapopey: I may do both actually, since the text can live in two places08:43
zygammm, I can do that08:43
popeywe'd love to have more content there which is technical and approachable08:43
zygaI'll do a hybrid twitter/blog post today and we can see how that can show up on snapcraft.io08:43
popeywe make quite a bit of effort to get the blog posts out there. your tweets will die overnight, "nobody" will see them08:44
popeythe blogs will live on, and can be re-shared (if they're evergreen)08:44
pedroniswell afaiu zyga's is tweeting about work in  progress work08:45
zygayes, it's not the kind of post to return in 3 weeks08:45
popeyright, some are, some aren't08:45
zygabut yeah, it's easier to read on a blog so I will aggregate as posts as well08:45
pedronisall code will be written and deleted and then rewritten (maybe)08:45
popeybut putting it on twitter from an account nearly nobody follows means nobody sees it08:45
popeyif the goal is just braindump fair enogh :)08:46
zygaI refreshed https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/530708:46
popeybut if you want the content out there, I'd encourage blogging and working with us to promote them :)08:46
mupPR #5307: cmd/snap-confine: allow hard-coded mounts to be optional <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5307>08:46
zygait should go green soon08:46
zygapopey: I want it out there, it was just me experimenting with the format really08:46
zygaand as evening memory save for tomorrow (but a blog does that too)08:47
popey:) gotcha08:47
zygaand thank you for noticing, this is important to me08:48
zygapstolowski: hey09:37
zygado you need https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5433 ?09:37
mupPR #5433: interfaces/repo: added AllHotplugInterfaces helper <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5433>09:37
zygaor has that changed since we discussed last?09:37
zygaChipaca: last chance to see https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5446 in case you want before I merge it09:38
mupPR #5446: coreconfig: add support for `snap set core network.disable-ipv6` <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5446>09:38
zygait's green and has +209:38
Chipacazyga: that should be 'system' though, right09:39
Chipacain any case, go for it09:39
zygashould it?09:39
zygaI can chance it to system09:39
Chipacazyga: I mean, in user-facing docs09:39
zygaI see what you mean now09:39
pstolowskizyga: yes i need it, it's independent of udev bits we discussed09:40
zygaI misunderstood that as "snap set core system.disable-ivp6"09:40
Chipacazyga: internally right now it's core, but system is what we should talk about because system is core now but coreXYZ later09:40
zygaChipaca: totally agreed09:40
zygaChipaca: I will tweak the spread test09:40
zygain a world of iot customers ask for an off switch for ipv609:41
zygain some distant future the core snap version 1664 will be easy to confuse with 16-64 but perhaps nobody will use embedded 64bit address space anymore09:44
zygaChipaca: I added a test for system snap for the ipv6 config now, thank you!10:10
zygaI will merge when green10:10
Chipacazyga: 🆗10:11
Chipacazyga: or should I say 🆗👌💯10:12
zygaI feel emoji deficient now10:25
* zyga is enjoying fresh coffee10:28
zygapressure must be low today, I'm more sleepy than usual10:29
mupPR snapd#5505 opened: interfaces/hotplug: udevadm output parser <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5505>10:53
mupPR snapd#5506 opened: cmd/snap: add a green check mark to verified publishers <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5506>10:55
Chipaca^^^ look maw, it's terminfo's stupid inbred cousin!10:57
=== pstolowski is now known as pstolowski|lunch
* zyga forgot to eat breakfast today11:43
=== pstolowski|lunch is now known as pstolowski
zygaMmmm, I feel tired somehow12:21
zygapedronis: what do think about the branch?12:21
pedroniszyga: what branch?12:21
zygaThe remapping one12:22
pedroniszyga: I added comments there12:22
pedronisa while ago12:22
zygaOh, super. Let me look12:22
zygaThank you!12:22
=== Guest28394 is now known as devil__
zygaReplied just now12:25
zygaI will deal with the coffee and add mapper that returns system in the API layer. We may need to differentiate the state and API mappers though, to keep rollback around (so that state is always mapping “snapd” to “core” on disk)12:27
zygaThis is also a chance to rename the incoming outgoing words12:28
zygaTo do explicitly talk about state loading/saving and API requests/responses12:28
Chipacain test-snapd-tools.publisher expected 'canonical', got 'Canonical✓'12:29
zygaBut ... why?12:29
Chipacazyga: why what?12:29
zygaIs the real value ascii12:29
zygaWhy did it get corrupted12:29
Chipacazyga: answering that requires investigation12:30
Chipacazyga: did the python checker get it wrong? did the log print it wrong? is the browser using the wrong encoding? etc etc12:30
zygaBecause software sucks and we’ll all pick up gardening instead ;-)12:31
zygaI vote for python12:31
Chipacazyga: I name myself BGFL12:31
zygaSince Guido left python started throwing Unicode errors on all 7 bit ascii values12:32
Chipacazyga: for _this_ one, my money is on the browser12:32
zygaDead hand system (aka dead snake)12:32
Chipacazyga: confirmed, it's the browser; log file is fine12:32
Chipacain test-snapd-tools.publisher expected 'canonical', got 'Canonical✓'12:32
ChipacaHAH! suse's default locale is not UTF-8ish12:34
Chipacafor suse: in test-snapd-tools.publisher expected 'canonical', got 'Canonical*'12:34
mupPR snapd#5498 closed: snap: support hook environment <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5498>12:39
King_InuYashaobs-build defaults to POSIX / C, even though openSUSE itself defaults to C.UTF-812:39
King_InuYashazyga, Chipaca ^12:39
ChipacaKing_InuYasha: I wonder why our spread box isn't getting that one12:40
* Chipaca spins it up to check12:40
cjwatsonone of the reasons very recent python has the automatic UTF-8 upgrade stuff12:42
zygabad restore codE? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/d59S4fs6/12:49
mupPR snapd#5504 closed: interfaces/pulseaudio: be clear that the interface allows playback and record <Simple> <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5504>12:51
ChipacaKing_InuYasha: in opensuse 42 that we run spread on in GCE, LANG=POSIX, with just LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-812:51
Chipacawhat even is LANG=POSIX12:51
Chipaca'in the lang of posix where the standards lie [through their teeth]'12:52
ogra_that definitely needs to be POSIX.UTF-8 :P12:57
ogra_how else would you get standardized umlauts12:57
mupPR snapd#5494 closed: snap/squashfs, tests: pass -n[o-progress] to {mk,un}squashfs <Created by chipaca> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5494>12:57
King_InuYashaChipaca: POSIX is an alias for C13:06
jdstrandniemeyer: can you add https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/tio-request-for-classic-confinement/6209 to your list of considerations for classic?13:57
niemeyerjdstrand: Of course, thanks13:58
smoserhi. is it possible to change the mode (jailmode/devmode/classic) of an installed snap ?13:58
Chipacasmoser: it is not14:00
Chipacasmoser: well14:00
Chipacasmoser: 'snap refresh' can do it14:00
Chipacasmoser: but 'snap switch' cannot14:00
Chipacasmoser: why?14:00
smoserjsut curious mostly.14:01
smoser https://github.com/smoser/pdftk/issues/114:01
smoserone solution to that is to instlal with --devmode (i think)14:01
Chipacasmoser: devmode stops you from getting updates though14:02
jdstrandsmoser: that won't work cause devmode also uses the mount namespace and snap-specific /tmp14:02
Chipacaheh, and what jdstrand said14:02
Chipacasmoser: what i've done when I had things in tmp is use bash's <()'s14:03
smoserthanks jdstrand . so the only solution there is "don't  use /tmp"14:03
Chipacasmoser: so instead of pdftk infile outfile, pdftk <(cat infile) >(cat > outfile)14:04
smoserwell the snap should be able to write to its stdin and stdout anyway14:05
smoserso you shouldnt need the (cat)14:05
Chipacasmoser: ah, if pdftk handles stdin/stdout, sure14:05
smoserjust snap-program </tmp/my-input >/tmp/my-output14:05
cjwatsonyou might want to double-check that, since apparmor revalidates access to open fds14:06
smoseri yeah.. i hit that somewhere. it works sometimes.14:06
cjwatsonso it's at least potentially the sort of thing that might not work even though it feels like it should14:06
pstolowskizyga: can you take a look at #5451?14:06
smoseri went looking for where i found it. thought i reported it, cbut coudnt find it.14:06
mupPR #5451: interfaces: honor static attributes when reloading conns <Blocked> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5451>14:06
mupBug #1766667: commands in a container cannot write to inherited filehandles such as stdout <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766667>14:09
smoseris that in the worng place ?14:09
Chipacasmoser: i'll move it to snapd, but no14:11
Chipacasmoser: (snappy is the catchall for snapd + snapcraft + etc etc, in lp)14:11
ChipacaI'll leave it to jdstrand to figure out if it's actually snapd or lxd-in-a-snap or what :-)14:13
mupBug #1766667 changed: commands in a container cannot write to inherited filehandles such as stdout <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766667>14:14
zygapstolowski: yes14:49
* Chipaca afk for a bit14:51
zygapedronis: hey, I updated https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/549115:03
mupPR #5491: overlord,daemon: re-map interface plugs and slots around the edges of snapd <Core18> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5491>15:03
zygaI swiched the helpers to be functional now15:03
zygaI'm looking if we can cheaply translate differently inside and outside to get  "core" in state, "snapd" in memory and "system" in the API15:03
zygaI think so, just making the changes now15:03
pedroniszyga: ok, thank you15:04
zygapedronis: question on api naming:15:10
zygaI tried to come up with useful names for the state vs api remappers15:11
zygawhat do you think?15:11
zygapedronis: basically I'm open to suggestions as I'm making that change anyway15:12
pedronisthe names seem reasonable15:13
zygagreat, I'll run with those, thank you15:15
scientesHow do I list all files in all snaps in the database?15:24
scientesis there a database I can download?15:24
scientes(like apt-file/apt's Contents.gz)15:25
noise][scientes: there is not currently a manifest such as that15:31
Chipacascientes: what for?15:32
ogra_there is definitely nothing client side like Packages.gz (or the apt list files which are the local equivalents), this is all handled store side15:33
Chipacascientes: what about command-not-found?15:33
Chipacascientes: (we already have commant-not-found integration)15:34
scienteswhen I rewrote it ( https://github.com/shawnl/command-not-found/ ), there was comments that it should support snap15:34
scientesI re-wrote it to avoid the python dependency15:34
Chipacascientes: oh! hi :-)15:34
Chipacascientes: the person that did the majority of the integration with cnf is away this week15:36
scientesi'll look at the source15:36
Chipacascientes: but, not command-not-found itself has grown support for being extended15:36
Chipacascientes: and snap uses that extension point15:36
scientesoh i c15:36
ChipacaI say "has grown", but we were instrumental to that growth15:36
scientesdoes it increase the latency, given that it has to make a network request for every command_not_found hook?15:37
Chipacascientes: it does not have to make a network request15:37
Chipacascientes: the list of all commands _is_ available15:37
Chipacascientes: the list of all files is not15:37
scientesoh i c that is better15:37
Chipacascientes: if you have snapd on your system, you can look at the database, /var/cache/snapd/commands.db15:38
Chipacascientes: snapd refreshes that periodically15:38
Chipacascientes: all command-not-found does is then call (via an extension mechanism that I don't know offhand), e.g., “snap advise-snap --command tmnationsforever”15:39
scientesdo you know what format that is?15:39
Chipacascientes: boltdb15:39
Chipacascientes: the integration made it into 18.04, but has not been backported, fwiw15:40
scientesyeah im' running 18.0415:40
scienteslooks like boltdb is deprecated15:40
Chipacaso 'command_not_found_handle tmnationsforever' should show you15:41
Chipacascientes: whatever the new thing is called, it's the same15:41
Chipacascientes: bbolt15:42
Chipacascientes: before you start looking into that database, keep in mind that the cnf extension mechanism was at least in principle built to also support flatpak15:43
Chipacaanyhow, back to work for me15:44
mupPR snapd#5507 opened: Changes to network-control interface <Created by kubiko> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5507>15:47
pedroniszyga: I will re-review on Monday morning if you push there15:51
zygayes, I will, just getting dinner now15:51
zygathank you!15:51
pedronispstolowski: I will also look at the patch PR next week15:51
pedronispstolowski: 5502 it's maybe something you could look at when you have time15:54
* Chipaca encourages spread to finish so he can EOW16:32
pstolowskipedronis: yes i started looking at it16:38
=== pstolowski is now known as pstolowski|afk
* zyga is "lucky"17:01
zygaevery time I go out for a walk it rains17:01
mupPR snapcraft#2179 closed: cli: SNAPCRAFT_BUILD_ENVIRONMENT isn't deprecated <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2179>18:06
roadmrwhat's the cross-section between snapd-control interface and classic?18:53
roadmrif a snap uses classic, can it do snapd-control stuff? or is snapd-control isolated even from a classic snap?18:53
pedronisroadmr: if it has bits that run as root, yes18:55
roadmrohh I see pedronis18:55
roadmrpedronis: and we have no way of knowing whether it does stuff as root, right?18:56
roadmrpedronis: so to ask another way: if a snap asks "I need either classic or snapd-control", we would prefer to grant snapd-control as it's less powerful than classic? (but I understand it's still quite powerful and dangerous)18:56
pedronisroadmr: yes, but it depends, there are factors of trust at play, also snapd-control is not useful for something like a compiler or an ide18:57
noise][and snapd-control gives you those powers in fully confined (core) systems as well18:57
roadmrpedronis: right, I'm thinking about the case of a snap that wants classic to be able to interact with snapd18:58
pedronisyes, no classic on core18:58
roadmrahh interesting, noise][18:58
pedronisroadmr: it probably should instead make a case to get snapd-control18:58
pedronistalk to snapd is a case for snapd-control, not for classic18:59
pedronis(taken by itself)18:59
roadmrpedronis: right. OK, so that's guidance we can provide to developers in this case18:59
pedronisroadmr: I mean we shouldn't give classic to something we wouldn't give snapd-control, if the situation is talk to snapd18:59
noise][that said we are very reluctant to grant snapd-control for anything in the global store19:00
pedronisnoise][: yes, but in general we have been reluctant with any manage the system kind of thing so far19:01
pedronisin the global store19:01
pedronisI don't see classic vs snapd-control changing that equation19:01
roadmrnoise][: yep, I remember that... so  without guarantees that snapd-control will be granted, if someone wants classic and when asked why, says "so my snap can manage/add/remove/update snaps", we can say "the right thing to use is snapd-control" - but to reiterate, snapd-control use is evaluated on its own merits19:01
roadmrterrific, well this is enough info for what I wanted to know :) thanks both19:02
zygapedronis: I got the state<=>memory<=>api mapper working, playing with more tests but it looks very good19:08
* zyga wraps up for the week23:37

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