[01:26] @UniversalSuperBox, :D [01:27] @mateosalta, yet another great lead, thank you for remembering and sharing ! [01:29] @padraic7a, well I want to, and I will, just that whatever was made at work I wont be sharing immediately. But I still have quite a bit of things to share in the pipeline. I havent touched my blog for months now, but I'm going to gwt bacl to it over next 2 weeks [01:32] @Fuseteam, just FYI there now is a term for that I see being tossed around: BYOD, for Bring Your Own Device. Much like what Samsung showed with S8 and Dex dock, when they run Ubuntu from the phone onto the external monitor: https://youtu.be/XPFemeuCTYg [01:33] when I saw it first time I left them a comment: [01:33] BYOD is about employees bringing their own hardware into the office, not about convergence [01:34] (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/deQCRalv.png [01:34] because they thought they had probably invented IDE on a pho e :D [01:34] huh? [01:34] @dohbee, thanks for clarifying, I didnt know, I saw it used on the Internet with the convergence [01:35] because convergence fits into BYOD market. Just that now only I know from you that BYOD was already a thing before. thanks [01:35] [Edit] because they thought they had probably invented IDE on a phone :D [01:36] @dohbee, watch the vid, they present dex and they pitch at the audience of anyone else had IDE in their phone, like if they thought nobody had already came up with it before [01:37] @KrisJacewicz, oh, i thought you were mocking canonical with that statement, given you had just posted the screen grab of your comments [01:38] i was going to say, canonical was in fact working on shipping the IDE for developing the apps, directly on the phone as well [01:38] but granted, there still are no properly converged IDEs [01:41] I want to ask a question related to the dpi setting under xmir. As I understand it is a hard-fixed value of 96 in the source code. I dont hv source now to refer to, I just remember reading this on the Internet. So do any of you know if there is maybe just a source code file of few where I can just replace that value and rwcompi [01:41] le with, say, a fixed value of 180dpi? just so I could end up seeing everything 2x bigger than currently under xmir? [01:42] you don't need to change the source code [01:42] @dohbee, please share more [01:43] @KrisJacewicz, https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/133 [01:44] Is that DeX thing even native? [01:44] what is this [01:44] is it a hypervisor [01:44] or the container magic [01:44] @K31j0, it's a chroot [01:44] alright, so first thank you. However this is just dpi for fonts. Please understand that I am looking for knowledge on how to alter the dpi setting for the entire graphical stack not just for fonts. I want every aspect of ui to be scaled differently. And I am asking about the knowledge, anyone? [01:45] it's basically the same type of linux chroot people have been doing on android for years [01:45] @dohbee, Just marketed [01:45] and some people are like "wow" [01:45] if anyone cares, here's why: even though i can enlarge fo ts the scrollbars will still be tiny. The checkboxes will still be tiny. and many other things, all that doesnt adapt to font size. [01:45] I don't understand why people are so used to eating shit these days [01:46] @KrisJacewicz, well if xmir takes same options as normal X server, i suppose there maybe one way to specify the DPI through it [01:46] or you can set the appropriate value for the Xresources perhaps [01:47] @K31j0, well DeX is the dock. A brilliant one too: phone gets charging, external kbd/mouse, Ethernet port, speakers and hdmi all at once. And then there is an app that runs Ubuntu using chroot. [01:48] geez I'm so pissed right now [01:48] @K31j0, well, the samsung thing brings all the hardware together, now that usb-c lets more stuff go through the port at once [01:48] @dohbee, appreciate, thanks, i will google this. If anyone has more knowledge, also please share. [01:48] this is like the 10th attempt to fix modem [01:48] and when it was patched onto the live OS it was working [01:48] but when integrated into the zip it doesn't work [01:49] somentimes I just think of leaving it all to rot and using N900 as my main phone [01:50] it's not great, but it's better to have something with physical keyboard and software that works and is linux instead of a thing that can't even bring devfs nodes up right [01:50] @KrisJacewicz, also xmir is deprecated and will be going away hopefully soon, replaced by using Xwayland instead [01:51] @KrisJacewicz, I remember something, but when I tried it needed hardware exceleration [01:51] @dohbee, in that case, do you know if xwayland is going to report the actual dpi value of the display? [01:52] [Edit] if anyone cares, here's why: even though i can enlarge fonts the scrollbars will still be tiny. The checkboxes will still be tiny. and many other things, all that doesnt adapt to font size. [01:52] @KrisJacewicz, what does `xdpyinfo | grep resolution` report if you run it inside a terminal under xmir? [01:53] mostly your problem is that things in X11 just do not scale with DPI [01:53] @mateosalta, but what you were trying was that altering numeral value(s) in a source code or something else? [01:53] @dohbee, 96 always [01:53] it was a commandline value for launching [01:54] @KrisJacewicz, https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/unassigned-bugs/2016-January/037866.html [01:54] sorry this was abt xinerama i will try to find relwvant link... [01:54] DPI is irrelevant when all the apps are simply saying "make this thing N pixels wide" [01:54] xorg does not magically scale apps [01:55] a pixel is always a pixel [01:56] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/589485 [01:56] Ubuntu bug 589485 in X.Org X server "Ignores physical display size and calculates based on 96DPI" [High,Confirmed] [01:57] @dohbee, i thought that the widgetset layer uses dpi value for scaling. so when u design you use pixels but at runtime the widgetset scales things programatically. I read up on this some time ago, this is what i remembered. [01:58] @KrisJacewicz, nope. if you specify in pixels you get pixels. the code has to be written to scale properly. gtk+3 is better at things of course, but still requires developers to design accordingly [01:58] like "Xmir -2x" [01:58] this is why we have "grid units" in UT [01:58] at least in case of the widgetsets that are adaptive to highDPI scenarios. I remwmber reading that both gtk+ and qt do this. [01:58] https://mutse.github.io/2015/11/08/howto-launch-desktop-apps-on-utouch/ [01:59] @KrisJacewicz, gtk+ 2.x most certainly does not. qt does not either if you do not write your application in the correct way to do it [02:00] @dohbee, I lnow one thing for sure, when I develop gtk app on desktop i design size of everything in pixel units. but if i compile with highDPI optimization flag the app ends up scaled automatically on a retina desktop. [02:00] if you want scalable/converged apps on UT, really the best way to get that is to use the Ubuntu UI Toolkit and grid units for everything [02:01] @KrisJacewicz, what compile flag? there is no magic optimization flag afaik. you simply have to use the correct API if you want an app that scales with gtk+'s scaling config [02:01] and that is only in gtk+3 [02:02] https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/issues/226 here is how you can change the system grid units [02:02] understand thanls again. I already worked around this problem for myself by writing a library that scales my apps property at runtime. … What I have not solved is using x11 apps on the phone. … I other words, i dont need a solution for writing apps myself, only fpr running already written apps on the phone in a scaled way. [02:03] @KrisJacewicz, there is no generic solution to this. [02:03] @dohbee, compilation flags depend on a compiler. every compiler has different flags/switches. I use Lazarus IDE and what I use probably is different from what you are using. [02:03] this is why we always called them "legacy apps" and suggest they only be used when connected to an external display [02:03] @dohbee, wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/High_DPI [02:04] for all languages [02:04] it really depends on what you use [02:04] @KrisJacewicz, there is nothing in there about compile flags? [02:04] @UniversalSuperBox, ah yes, well i am myself interested in one language primarily: object pascal [02:05] but anyway, it seems it simply provides some internal API which it sticks into your application or something [02:05] again, this has nothing to do with gtk+ and is not a general thing you can do [02:07] @dohbee, i font like to browse on phone, but lazarus IDE has a dialog where you set some flags and one is about compiling the app in dpi aware way. That logic will work regardless of the widgetset you choose to bind against. Like gtk or gtk3 or qt4 or qt5 [02:07] not sure abt qt4 actually [02:07] Hopefully no one is using Qt4 any more [02:08] or gtk 1.x [02:08] anyway, no, it has nothing to do with the toolkit. that is something with lazarus and/or object pascal or whatever [02:08] you should not base your assumptions of how toolkits work, by what a single IDE provides for you [02:09] @UniversalSuperBox, i used to run qt1 on arch gnu/linux [02:09] in a single language [02:09] @vanyasem, kde 1 is a nice DE. but it doesn't support scaling, so i switched to Plasma 5 [02:12] not on purpose i diverged. the main thing is there is a bunch of apps that can run via xmir or xwayland some time soon. and it needs scaling for better readability. @dohbee you said that dpi setting has nothing to do with pixels. On one hand I hear you. On the other you still showed me that you can change the dpi for fonts and [02:12] they do scale. I wonder why thos kind of scaling only applies to fonts though. About how to scale the entire app not jist fonts. [02:12] Old KDE was the shit [02:13] it was great for what it was [02:14] @K31j0, DPI setting does not change how many pixels are in a pixel, indeed. one pixels is still always one pixel. you cannot scale all app widgets as you ask for, unfortunately. you can scale apps which are built with newer toolkits that can handle scaling, in many cases, but there are still plenty where that will not work full [02:14] y, or at all. [02:14] and again not because i cant write a properly scaled app, but for the purpose of scaling old apps. The xmir is a display within a natove window I suspect. It wonders me if that emulated display could not scale things before they end up drawn. [02:14] scaling, layouts and adaptive UIs are always blowing my mind [02:15] but I'm not UI/UX designer so that's understandable [02:15] @KrisJacewicz, you can scale any old app you wish, so long as you rewrite it to be scalable [02:15] the Xft.dpi setting only works for fonts, because Truetype fonts are already scalable [02:16] it will not work for bitmap fonts, though [02:16] @dohbee, what if the xmir window draws every emulated pixel over 4 actual pixels? not scaling but zooming in by the factor of x2? [02:16] so if the pixels inside xmir window were 2 times bigger? [02:16] @KrisJacewicz, that would be a massive waste of CPU [02:16] stuff is slow enough without that happening [02:16] @dohbee, cannot be handled by gpu? [02:17] i guess not, as far as i understand, because xmir is already not gpu accelerated on the phones [02:17] i mean that already ahppens no? the pixel in ui is not actualy the hardware pixel of the screen right? I mean on desktop I dont know abput the phone, never seen screen resolution changed on a phone [02:17] if it were, then maybe it could be, but it would still be incredibly slow [02:18] @dohbee, ah, that's right [02:18] also the cpu/gpu are not entirely separate things [02:18] so do you know if xwayland will be? [02:18] i suspect xwayland will suffer from many of the same maladys on the phone [02:19] ok but was it mentionned that at least ot would be gpu accelerated on the arm phones? [02:20] @KrisJacewicz, i have no idea if it will be or not [02:20] anyway, it is really not the solution to the problem. [02:21] the only real solution is building fully converged apps [02:22] @dohbee, it will be a solution to other problems though. If it wont fix scaling then it will fix graphical performance. [02:23] graphical performance may be improved slightly with xwayland, but i'm not sure how much [02:23] it is at least a single shared X server, rather than having a server per app, so likely will perform slightly better simply as a result of that [02:24] what time it is believed that xwayland would land (replace xmir)? [02:24] i don't know. it requires latest mir and some other changes, so probably some months [02:25] i see so perhaps not this year [02:25] for the apps you write, you are having the issue with fonts being decent size, but controls still small? [02:26] or it's only an issue for other apps you've installed binaries of? [02:34] @dohbee, only for other apps. The reason i dont have this problem is because in case of controls i know end up being tiny i dont use them and use custom drawn ones. Example is a checkbox. On a scaled font dpi the text to the right of the checkbox will show up big but the actual square within which the checkmark is will st [02:34] ill be tiny af. So i dont use the widgetset provided chackbox but instead i use my own whoch i draw according to my scalling. [02:34] but my apps actually dont depend on the font dpi either for the fonts. [02:38] ar startup i checl the actual dpi and dynamically resize pixel units of all ui elements by a calculated factor. [02:39] right, that's basically what the sdk toolkit does, for grid units. [02:40] and apps just say things are 1gu or 5gu or 2.5gu or whatever [02:41] sort of like "display pixels" on android [02:41] and then as a coder i must remember not to use hardcoded values either so this: … Label1.Height := 22; … becomes: … Label1.Height := VScale(22); … Vscale scales any pixel value by a vertical ratio. There is HScale and there is Scale which uses an average ratio between V and H. [02:41] @dohbee, ok i see [02:42] And QtQuick controls 2 should do it too [02:42] you could implement it and use the same thing for your apps. and perhaps build with Qt5 instead of gtk+, then you wouldn't need to mess with xmir. you could just package your app in a click and run it directly then i guess [02:43] We'll need to get QtMir to send the scale values correctly [02:43] Qt has support for android display pixels internally, but not gu [02:43] Right [02:43] but i don't think we want to be using the SCALE or whatever variable [02:43] Why not? [02:44] @dohbee, in deed i am interested in binding my apps against qt5 instead of gtk. Lazarus allows you to choose a wifgetset and recompile against it. … But i havent gotten around it yet because it turns out that the binding that works on desktop for qt5 does not work on the phone. I guess there are some binary differences i [02:44] n qt libraries so my bindings dont compile. [02:44] I know the UITK is great, but we'll really need to scale it back if we don't get about 5 more engineers [02:44] i havent gotten time to try to follow compiler errors and manually try to change headers. [02:44] @UniversalSuperBox, i'm not talking about keeping the full uitk. [02:45] So... What? Patch Qt for grid units? [02:45] no [02:45] anyway, let's not go down that rabbit hole right now [02:46] Yeah. We'll need to translate Px/GU to the Qt scale factor. :P [03:28] Anyone having issues with seeing categories within the open store on the latest RC release? [03:29] The API's been a little strange today I know [04:09] @KrisJacewicz, 👍 [04:58] Fwd from vanyasem: https://t.me/unity8_port_notes [05:10] @hydrahex, Is that arch os [05:10] @hydrahex, [Edit] Is that for arch os [05:11] Or ut based On arvh [05:11] [Edit] Or ut based on arch [05:13] @hydrahex, [Edit] Is that unity for arch os [05:13] [Edit] Or UT based on arch [05:36] That's the same thing actually [05:37] Because packages are the same for phones and desktop [05:37] The only difference is the architecture [05:37] I haven't tested it on a phone yet though, but it works on desktops [06:51] and yeah i've heard of byod i was just imagining a type i can just go to work with my phone instead of my laptop haha [08:34] dishuba10 was added by: dishuba10 [08:53] idmikhaichi was added by: idmikhaichi [08:54] @idmikhaichi, Hi Daniyal, welcome! Take a look to https://ubports.com/telegram-welcome to get you started [08:55] Hi,can i install ubtouch on my phone whitout pc? [08:56] Fwd from dohniks: All you dekko2 hackers out there. I think it's time to align forces. Let me propose a place to do so: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/1477/dekko2-community-thread [08:57] @idmikhaichi, What OS is running in your phone currently? [09:01] @dohniks great idea. Another good place to post it is #ubports:matrix.org [09:02] I don't have matrix [09:03] I can post it there if you want [09:03] sure thanks [09:03] 👍 [09:04] I thought the tg and matrix channels are bridged to each other?! [09:04] like tg and irc [09:05] @dohniks: Thanks for your great approach! [09:07] @dohniks, UBports OT it is, but UBports (general) not yet [09:40] a question for the admins [09:41] why use telegram instead mailing lists? [09:41] should i consider this trolling? [09:41] no, no [09:41] its a seruois queston [09:41] just duckduckgo "why mailing lists suck" [09:42] maybeoff topic then dont answer me [09:43] we have a forum [09:43] if that's what you're looking for [09:43] ok thanks [09:44] i am personally against mailing lists [09:44] @vanyasem, https://forums.ubports.com [09:44] I prefer threads of discussion 👍 [09:44] yeah a forum or a github issue will do [09:44] you can reply to it via email [09:44] so well [09:53] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/this-week-in-mir-20th-july-2018/7154 [09:53] This week @alan_g has been hard at work refreshing our developer documentation, adding content to reflect the technology Mir will support going forward. He’s also updated the Mir kiosk apps to use Wayland, rather then the old Mir client API. … I’ve been preparing to implement the stable XDG shell protocol. I’ve continued clean [09:53] ing up shell surface code, and added tests to ensure correct functionality. … @mariogrip has been working with us to add XWayland support to Mir. This would allow legacy X11 apps to run within Mir like in Gnome on Wayland and other Wayland compositors. This work is ongoing, but nearing a usable state. [09:58] @Xavi_R, Use the forum for threads. But Telegram is great for chit-chat and small issues. You see, flooding people with daily digest with 100s of messages will not gain more than lot of people skipping through them [10:25] hello everybody, as I understand well, 16.04 will also be available for the mx4. Does the battery indicator issue (wrong indication, not showing correct percentage) will be solved? [10:44] @Flohack, Thank you for the answer florian [11:16]