[00:20] <tomreyn> hggdh: no, #freenode is +m, that's not what i meant
[00:20] <tomreyn> but i forgot the exact mode
[00:22] <hggdh> tomreyn: they are +mz; this means *everybody* is moderated, and only current ops/voiced can see the posts
[00:22] <hggdh> tomreyn: a similar (but not so drastic) way is +q $~a, and set the channel +z
[00:24] <hggdh> then current ops can see the $~a folks (i.e., the un-registered) posts
[00:24] <hggdh> but registered users can still chat
[00:25] <hggdh> tomreyn: and yes, I explained it wrong before, sorry
[00:26] <tomreyn> hggdh: right, that's the mode i meant. thanks for explaining.
[00:27] <tomreyn> and you're right, that's still a bit over the top
[00:32] <hggdh> tomreyn: right now we are being hit speoradically; if it gets more intensive, then we should flip +r
[00:33] <hggdh> tomreyn: and any present Ubuntu member can do it, BTW
[00:40] <tomreyn> hggdh: yes, that's where fresh blood is ruled out.
[01:10] <asafniv> This channel has been hacked by Australia's #1 hacker Simon 'eVestigator' Smith https://evestigatorsucks.com/
[01:22] <tsimonq2> hahahahaha
[01:34] <hggdh> OK. This is it. I am tired
[03:58]  * DalekSec hacks hggdh's channel.
[03:59] <DalekSec> ...Meh, being hacked by an American really has no ring to it.
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:54] <ducasse> good morning
[07:34] <EriC^> morning all
[07:40] <Nokaji> Morning EriC^
[07:44] <EriC^> morning Nokaji
[07:53] <Nokaji> I must say that overall, I'm enjoying the new 18.04, the relatively easy install/upgrade (fresh install plus re-install of previous settings/proggies) so well done and thanks to the developers
[08:35] <Nokaji> .... et al
[08:36] <Nokaji> ... not sure why 'speedy ducplicate finder' would be in the archives ... and a few other 'considerations', but those are fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things ... windows was never this easy to install, without major hadaches/losses
[08:48] <Nokaji> SDF is crippleware - would be nice if the S/W Centre at least stated this
[09:18] <Nokaji> ...in fact ... there seem to be four similar programmes tht look like the same proggie renamed ... and that do not remove a single duplicate file
[11:19] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[12:35] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:37] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[12:37] <lotuspsychje> dead in main today
[12:38] <BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
[12:38] <BluesKaj> not much action for a saturday
[12:39] <lotuspsychje> everyone on vacation or swimming :p
[12:40] <BluesKaj> still hot there lotuspsychje ?
[12:40] <lotuspsychje> yeah the whole week between 30-35c
[12:40] <lotuspsychje> they promise rain & bit colder next fridays
[12:40] <lotuspsychje> but its still unsure :p
[12:41] <tomreyn> can i haz 20°C ? plzzzzz
[12:41] <BluesKaj> yeah, predicting the weather a week away is iffy
[12:42] <BluesKaj> even the ##linux chat is slow today
[12:43] <TJ-> We're getting into European vacation season too
[12:43] <TJ-> it's got so bad even kernel patches aren't getting signed :D
[12:43] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:44] <tomreyn> 39°C predicted for wednesday here
[12:44] <TJ-> I've relocated to the inside-out room in the garden as my sop to vacations :)
[12:45] <BluesKaj> sept had really nice weather here last yr, let's hope it recurs
[12:46] <lotuspsychje> they predict more summers like this
[12:46] <tomreyn> garden sounds good, gets you some cool fresh air.
[12:47] <acheronuk> oops
[12:49] <TJ-> tomreyn: yeah, got cool tiles under my bare feet, breeze coming in from 2 sides. Only downside is the reflections from screen and needing shades on
[12:50] <tomreyn> sounds good enough
[12:51] <tomreyn> my choices are between hot, non moving air with no plants, and hot, moving air from an undersized fan, with no plants.
[12:51] <BluesKaj> it's 8:50AM here, windows are open, and we have a nice breeze thru the house, but it'll warm up by noon
[12:53] <TJ-> hmmm! "if [[ $RANDOM -ge 16384 ]]; then echo "tomreyn: get outside!"; fi "
[12:54] <tomreyn> i'm sure bash random can be impinged on somehow
[12:56] <tomreyn> btw. my 16.04 desktop issues aren't gone
[12:56] <tomreyn> maybe i should upgrade to 18.04 early, or just reinstall.
[12:56] <tomreyn> new problems, new fun
[12:59] <BluesKaj> 18.04 is nice and stable with kde/plasma 5.12.6
[12:59] <BluesKaj> bbiab
[13:01] <TJ-> tomreyn: did you break it again? :)
[13:01] <TJ-> tomreyn: and does it happen to a fresh new user account?
[13:02] <tomreyn> i thought i had it worked around by switching from lightdm to gdm3, but not. happens with a fresh user account, too.
[13:03] <TJ-> is this the lost groups? or the lock screen issue?
[13:03] <tomreyn> i'll just keep on asking about the upgrade availability in all ubuntu channels on an hourly schedule.
[13:03] <tomreyn> lock screen issue.
[13:04] <tomreyn> i leave the computer for login enough to make the screen go into power save, then return, press a button, screen powers on, tells me it gets no signal and that it will shut off again soon, shuts off again
[13:04] <tomreyn> i press ctrl-alt-f1 and the screen + tty are there instantly
[13:04] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[13:04] <tomreyn> restart lightdm / gdm3, thus loosing my desktop session, and get the login
[13:05] <tomreyn> + a new session after login
[13:06] <TJ-> hmmm, that does sound weird. Sounds like power-management getting confused. When you switch to console can you check the various logs for clues?
[13:06] <tomreyn> i have this (gnome-shell:4066): Clutter-CRITICAL **: clutter_input_device_get_device_id: assertion 'CLUTTER_IS_INPUT_DEVICE (device)' failed
[13:07] <tomreyn> not sure it's related, though, but it seems to happen aroudn the time
[13:07] <tomreyn> gnome-session[4025]: (gnome-shell:4066): Clutter-CRITICAL **: clutter_input_device_get_device_id: assertion 'CLUTTER_IS_INPUT_DEVICE (device)' failed
[13:07] <tomreyn> thats the full line
[13:07] <sonicwind> happy Saturday guys
[13:08] <lotuspsychje> tnx sonicwind
[13:08] <TJ-> tomreyn: this is with Xorg ?
[13:09] <tomreyn> TJ-: yes, 16.04.5
[13:09] <tomreyn> TJ-: and to answer your question, yes i can access logs while on the tty
[13:10] <BluesKaj> sonicwind, Happy Saturday to you too
[13:10] <TJ-> tomreyn: I'm wondering if Xorg.0.log and/or /var/log/{lightdm,gdm3}/* might give a clue
[13:11] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[13:11]  * BluesKaj wonders why ubuntu still uses lightdm instead of sddm?
[13:11] <tomreyn> let me trigger it again, and note doen the exact time
[13:17] <tomreyn> i forgot triggering it requires me to not use the computer for 10 minutes, and i'm not willing to pause right now ;)
[13:17] <tomreyn> i'll note down the time next time it happens.-
[13:18] <TJ-> OK :) do we have a bug number to track it?
[13:18] <tomreyn> not yet, since i can't really pinpoint anything, yet
[13:18] <tomreyn> but i filed two  server live installer  bugs last night
[13:19] <tomreyn> for 18.04
[13:19] <tomreyn> .1
[13:19] <lotuspsychje> TJ- is not gonna like those :p
[13:20] <lotuspsychje> bug 1785321
[13:20] <tomreyn> this is not mine, but
[13:20] <tomreyn> ...it is relevant
[13:20] <TJ-> I've just found a MAJOR bug in Firefox! Cannot edit the address bar URL!
[13:21] <tomreyn> bug 1785354 and (less importantly) bug 1785356
[13:21] <lotuspsychje> bugs bugs bugs :p
[13:21] <tomreyn> TJ-: just klick on links!
[13:21] <TJ-> I've got the external monitor in portrait orientation... so 1200 pixels wide. The address bar is full of the TLS certificate name and all the fancy gadgets but it has reduced the URL space to 0 pixels
[13:22] <TJ-> I can see the blinking edit cursor (1 pixel wide?) and that is it
[13:22] <tomreyn> have you tried to reannage these GUI elements?
[13:22] <tomreyn> *rearrange
[13:23] <tomreyn> (but sure, this should not happen by default)
[13:23] <TJ-> here's what it looks like http://i.imgur.com/U83TYW7.png
[13:24] <TJ-> all due to it using up all the space for the TLS cert's organisation name
[13:24] <tomreyn> just remove the search box, or move it to a separate row ;)
[13:25] <tomreyn> well, this company paid for this advertisement, so... you know...
[13:25] <tomreyn> why is there blank space to the left and right?
[13:26] <tomreyn> you should probably remove that
[13:26] <tomreyn> left of the url bar and right of the search box
[13:27] <tomreyn> i think i needed to do this, too, when i rearranged those GUI elements in firefox.
[13:27] <tomreyn> you have what firefox calls "flexible space" there
[13:28] <tomreyn> also, unless you actuall yuse pocket, you can move this icon off the url bar by right-lciking it
[13:30] <tomreyn> and last but not least you have pending add-on updates
[13:30] <lotuspsychje> yeah i would also try movie space
[13:30] <lotuspsychje> *move
[13:37] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I just replied to the bug about LVM with an explanation. Basically, user lacking understanding
[13:38] <TJ-> My point is for new novice users those things aren't going to be known to them. There is a principle of least surprise.
[13:39] <TJ-> The URL should never be reduced so it cannot be read
[13:39] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: this user came yesterday to here, we forwarded to server, but its powersj that bugged it
[13:40] <TJ-> I could get a TLS cert for "Canoncal Group Ltd" and create a fake site - how many would spot the missing "i"
[13:40] <lotuspsychje> :p
[13:40] <TJ-> how many would know Canonical is behind launchpad
[13:45] <TJ-> tomreyn: I remove the spaces from the toolbar, still doesn't reveal the URL. Had to go into reader mode to copy this URL for you... possibly related to your issue  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+bug/1245351
[13:47] <tomreyn> TJ-: thanks, but that's not related. i got no background upon return form power saving, just a black screen. and power saving is also not instant but delayed a little (as I configured it)
[13:48] <TJ-> actually, it loks like this one: Bug #1615286
[13:48] <TJ-> "Then, when turning the screen back on, it does not work anymore: everything is black, and after a few seconds the monitor reports "no signal"."
[13:48] <tomreyn> TJ-: about the certificate: you'd first need to found a company named liek this. but i guess this cna be achievable
[13:50] <TJ-> tomreyn: comment 7 and 8 of that bug should give you a solution
[13:50] <tomreyn> good find, TJ! this looks exactly like my issue. and i'm on xubuntu
[13:50]  * tomreyn reading
[13:51] <TJ-> apparently installing xfce4-settings from Artful solved it in comment 9
[13:52] <tomreyn> but just the binary. that is.-.. quite the fix...
[13:52] <TJ-> tomreyn: I've added the Ubuntu/xcfe4-settings to the list of Affects, so if you can add your comment to the bug, we can probably get an SRU sorted out
[13:52] <TJ-> tomreyn: no, read on, comment 9 about fetching the Artful package
[13:53] <tomreyn> okay, i can use an eol distro package
[13:53] <tomreyn> gonna try this
[13:53] <TJ-> yeah, I was just looking on old-releases for that package
[13:54] <TJ-> !info xfce4-settings
[13:54] <TJ-> ahhh, universe!
[13:54] <tomreyn> so no SRU
[13:55] <TJ-> so this http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xfce4-settings/xfce4-settings_4.12.1-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[13:55] <tomreyn> ty
[13:55] <TJ-> tomreyn: if you can confirm that solves it, we can get an SRU organised
[13:56] <TJ-> I'm in the #xubuntu-devel channel so I can prod folks there about it
[13:57] <tomreyn> will try, ty
[13:58] <TJ-> might be worth checking the bionic package works too, if dependencies haven't changed too much
[13:59] <TJ-> tomreyn: can you "pastebinit <( apt-cache show xfce4-settings)" and I can compare the versioned depends to 18.04 here
[13:59] <TJ-> oh no matter! doh, I have a 16.04 container
[14:02] <tomreyn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/km7CS4DjvK/
[14:02] <tomreyn> it's not fully fixed, yet
[14:03] <tomreyn> but things got better
[14:03] <tomreyn> what i get now when i return from power saving is a stuck mouse pointer on a black background
[14:03] <tomreyn> 'now' = with the artful xfce4-settings
[14:04] <tomreyn> however, when i then ctrl-alt-f1 to tty1 and back to tty7, i get gdm3's login screen and when i login there i think i'm back to the previous session
[14:04] <tomreyn> i had nothing running in that session previously, so i'm not sure i'm actually backx in the previous session or it started a new one
[14:05] <tomreyn> trying this now
[14:09] <TJ-> hmm, 2 major changes only, but probably prevent a straight backport: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KRqMWWV7Kq/
[14:09] <tomreyn> yeay, this actually works! :)
[14:09] <TJ-> Yay
[14:09] <tomreyn> mouse ponter still gets tuck but i can reconnect to my running sesison
[14:10] <tomreyn> mouse pointer still gets stuck but i can reconnect to my running sesison
[14:10] <tomreyn> thanks so much, TJ :)
[14:11] <TJ-> I think I saw mention of another bug with stuck mouse cursor
[14:11] <tomreyn> okay, so i couldnt use the bionic package
[14:12] <tomreyn> i'll try switching back to lightdm to see whether this helps with the stuck mouse pointer
[14:12] <TJ-> tomreyn: not sure, it depends on what xfce4-settings requires.
[14:13] <TJ-> tomreyn: I'd guess it is possible, just needs someone with knowledge of dbus changes
[14:13] <tomreyn> 16.04 can't satisfy those dependency changes
[14:13] <TJ-> and possibly the fonts package
[14:14] <tomreyn> it works with the package i have now, it is just one package which gets no security support now, i can live with this until i upgrade to 18.04
[14:14] <tomreyn> the package i have now -> xfce4-settings from artful
[14:16] <lotuspsychje> !trim | EriC^^
[14:16] <EriC^^> cool thanks
[14:18] <TJ-> tomreyn: comment on the bug and we can get it moving for everyone
[14:21] <lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-unity-desktop | EriC^^
[14:28] <lotuspsychje> fortless getting too trolly for me
[14:45] <lotuspsychje> lol troll gets faulty hardware :p
[14:45] <tomreyn> TJ-: done, did i miss anythign important?
[14:45] <tomreyn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/linuxmint/+bug/1615286
[14:46] <TJ-> tomreyn: looks good, thanks
[14:46] <tomreyn> thank *you*
[14:46] <TJ-> When I get a moment I'll look at the diff between 1804 and 1604 see if a backport makes sense
[14:47] <tomreyn> by the way i just switched back to lightdm, and tried the same thing there (instead of gdm3). with lightdm, when i return from the screensaver and powered off screen, i also get the stuck mouse pointer on black screen, and can switch TTYs to restore the graphical output. i just don't get a login prompt, but am directly back into my previous session.
[14:47] <tomreyn> kind of... security fail
[14:49] <tomreyn> i appreciate your efforts, TJ
[14:49] <TJ-> tomreyn: that sounds like a typical light-locker problem
[14:50] <tomreyn> i agree. not the first time it has such issues.
[14:50] <TJ-> 18.04 has a terible one where if suspend is initiated via lid-close event, on wakeup the GUI remains black, but consoles are fine! Almost like your issue :) So have to manually suspend before closing lid
[14:51] <TJ-> I did a lot of debugging on that but got lost in the code between several packages and gave up!
[14:51] <lotuspsychje> how many years that suspend is gonna haunt linux :p
[14:51] <tomreyn> that's also a nice one
[14:52] <TJ-> suspend is fine, as is hibernate. the problem is some userspace tools and how they interact
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> surely top10 question in main..
[14:52] <TJ-> the main problem is lightdm/light-locker... guess what... Canonical projects that have been mostly abandoned
[14:53] <TJ-> I've not had that many issues with suspend but it does require you ensure the ACPI side is configured perfectly - a-la acpi_osi etc :)
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[14:53]  * tomreyn has a déja dup^W vu
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> lol
[15:06] <tomreyn> TJ-: Fortless' WDC WD20EARX-00PASB0 disk has seen ~ 10x more power cycles than power on days. might be worth asking about.
[15:07] <tomreyn> but i guess it's just been broken from the start.
[15:10] <TJ-> tomreyn: yeah, this was a 'brand new' drive from an Internet retailer. I suspect it was a repackaged return
[15:10] <TJ-> most of them don't know what SMART is or how to check
[15:10] <tomreyn> based on power on hours and many power cycles this sounds resonable
[15:11] <tomreyn> i mean: a reasonable assumption
[15:11] <tomreyn> not reasoinable to resell trash ;)
[15:12] <tomreyn> but maybe Fortless bought it as refurbished, mint condition
[15:20] <TJ-> I've known several box-shippers do that. They get a customer return that is "not wanted" don't check it - sometimes don't verify the serial # is the same they sent to the customer, and just return it to stock.
[15:21] <hggdh> DalekSec: I've been pwned! But by a fellow American, so I guess it indeed is not as effective as an Aussie :-)
[15:24] <tomreyn> there are just too many returns, i guess i can understand them to a degree. and i think it's okay to resell untested returns (should have checked the serial #s though) as long as you make it clear that you do.
[15:38] <BluesKaj> hggdh, think that youtube url was an honest mistake, and he pasted the wrong url which was a misdirective without realizing it
[15:40] <tomreyn> i don't think so
[15:41] <tomreyn> their nickname was 'r1ck'
[15:41] <BluesKaj> well.I do
[15:41] <tomreyn> anyone else would have reviewed what they posted and realized their mistake
[15:42] <tomreyn> also hggdh seemed to recognize someone
[15:42] <BluesKaj> too quick to ban IMO
[15:44] <tomreyn> we can play the game a bit more next time.
[15:58] <lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
[15:59] <pragmaticenigma> hello lotus
[16:01] <hggdh> BluesKaj: with an YT of Rick Whatever singing? Like Stove/Stee*? Why didn't they post a corrected image?
[16:02] <hggdh> I expect honest mistakes, which are followed by corrections.
[16:02] <BluesKaj> hggdh, it's a youtube deliberate misdirect, I've seen that before ... I agree that he should have checked the post first
[16:04] <pragmaticenigma> Steeeve is back?
[16:04] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:05] <hggdh> and ggo.gl is just a URL shortener. Anybody can use it
[16:05] <pragmaticenigma> someone yesterday or the day before posted a bit.ly link to a private IP address no one could access
[16:05] <hggdh> BluesKaj: for the record, he went into -ops, and kept the same behaviour.
[16:06] <pragmaticenigma> goes and looks at the -ops web log
[16:06] <lotuspsychje> problem is we get such users all day
[16:06] <lotuspsychje> if they all start posting links
[16:07] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: yes, I saw it. Not sure why they did it. If it was malware, it was from a l33t, still trying to learn.
[16:07] <hggdh> they will always post links, it is pretty much the only way to show something
[16:08] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[16:10] <pragmaticenigma> At least I know how to "preview" bit.ly link safely... i guess all one has to do is place a "+" at the end. bit.ly will show you the summary page instead of forward you
[16:13] <hggdh> or you can wget it, which will show you the redirection, ans download whatever. Of course, it is downloading whatever, but via wget, not a browser. YOu can then analyse the download at your leisure
[16:13] <hggdh> (being somewhat paranoid, I usually do that under a throwaway container/VM instance)
[16:14] <pragmaticenigma> I did the bitly trick in tor
[16:16] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: doing the same on goo.gl will give you a summary page of link usage
[16:16] <pragmaticenigma> nice
[16:16] <pragmaticenigma> thanks for the tip
[16:23] <pragmaticenigma> hrmm... interesting... Tor suddenly stopped working on my machine
[16:23] <TJ-> probably the PC got onion fumes in its ports
[16:23] <pragmaticenigma> seeing this: /usr/bin/env: ‘./Browser/execdesktop’: Permission denied
[16:25] <pragmaticenigma> nm
[16:25] <pragmaticenigma> I know what I did
[16:25] <pragmaticenigma> oops
[16:26] <pragmaticenigma> I chmod -x all files in /Downloads
[16:26] <TJ-> This policykit-1 issue is getting me annoyed. Not only are Debian/Ubuntu on v.105 since 2012, but the git repository doesn't contain the history of upstream so it's hard to compare changes
[16:27] <pragmaticenigma> !kazam
[16:28] <sonicwind> great tip above, guys... didn't know about the + thing
[20:09] <tomreyn> BluesKaj: this is your chance to talk to yaaa
[20:15] <lotuspsychje> :p
[20:18] <acheronuk> ha
[21:36] <tomreyn> leftyfb: i'll let you guide the very long term experienced partition maker while i have some supper. good luck, keeping your sanity.
[21:36] <leftyfb> lol
[21:38] <leftyfb> I was about to go relax actually :)
[22:45] <pauljw> hi everyone