/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/08/07/#ubuntu-discuss.txt

lotuspsychjegood morning to all03:37
EriC^^morning all05:19
lotuspsychjehey EriC^^05:47
EriC^^hey lotuspsychje l05:47
lotuspsychjehow are you today05:47
EriC^^good thanks you?05:48
lotuspsychjegreat :p05:48
EriC^^:D05:49
lordievaderGood morning06:05
lotuspsychjehey good morning lordievader06:06
lotuspsychjelordievader: ddi you go on holiday?06:07
ducassegood morning06:31
lotuspsychjeupdating to .3008:36
=== mwsb1 is now known as mwsb
lotuspsychjeafternoon TJ-11:36
TJ-lotuspsychje: good morning (only just up!)11:36
lotuspsychjecool11:36
TJ-anything interesting happening?11:37
lotuspsychjeTJ-: main pretty slowly still, usercount going up steady towards 170011:37
lotuspsychjeno lts upgrade path yet11:37
daftykinsstill O_O11:38
TJ-it's annoying there's not a single place we can look to see the progress on that, like a bug report11:38
lotuspsychjeubuntu-release should show us right?11:38
lotuspsychjealso seen this passby -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: nvidia-settings (bionic-proposed/main) [390.42-0ubuntu1 => 390.77-0ubuntu0.18.04.1] (ubuntu-desktop)11:39
lotuspsychjeso thats good news11:39
lotuspsychjeTJ-: does your +g block invites too?11:40
TJ-lotuspsychje: not sure11:42
lotuspsychjeill send you invite11:43
TJ-I can't see much I'm outside in the sun having to use black-on-white colour scheme, and weechat renders some items white on white like my own nickname and such so I miss stuff11:43
TJ-I've also got 26 weechat buffers on the go so unless I'm choosing to be in one I miss stuff11:44
lotuspsychjelol11:44
lotuspsychjelucky you have 6 screens to watch on11:44
lotuspsychjehey BluesKaj afternoon mate11:44
BluesKajHi folks11:45
JimBuntuHi BluesKaj11:45
BluesKajHey lotuspsychje11:45
BluesKaj'Morning JimBuntu11:45
lotuspsychjelol nice theme https://www.deviantart.com/phobean/art/Reactionary-WIP-75810357611:46
JimBuntulotuspsychje, holy smokes, that's a Linux theme!? They did pretty good!11:47
lotuspsychjeyeah feels real retro11:47
BluesKajlooks a bit like raspbian pixel DE for RPIs11:48
lotuspsychjehttps://github.com/B00merang-Project/Redmond-Themes11:48
TJ-lotuspsychje: I don't have 6 screens, I'm on the 12" Asus T300chi11:48
lotuspsychjeoh :p11:48
TJ-lotuspsychje: which is why I miss stuff :)11:49
lotuspsychje:p11:49
* JimBuntu quickly throws multiple LCDs in TJ's direction11:49
lotuspsychjelol11:50
* lotuspsychje ducks11:50
* lotuspsychje and grabs a few quickly to run away fast11:50
JimBuntuDang, lotuspsychje runs fast11:52
* TJ- quacks and ducks11:56
TJ-I've got 1 external 24" in portrait mode with my programming IDE on11:57
lotuspsychjecool11:57
* BluesKaj uses his old Panasonic 42" Plasma TV as a monitor ...still working well11:59
lotuspsychjewow11:59
lotuspsychjeyou blink your eyes sometimes BluesKaj ? :p11:59
JimBuntu+1 for portrait mode11:59
TJ-BluesKaj: I may put one like that up out here, but a lower-power LED device12:00
BluesKajI'm 3M away from it using wireless KB and mouse12:00
lotuspsychjeneat12:00
TJ-I had the hilarious issue that when I 1st put this dell u2412m out here in landscape mode, every time I put my sun-glasses on the screen blanked!12:00
lotuspsychjelol12:00
TJ-Turns out the screen has a virtical polarisation filter and my glasses horizontal,so had to turn it to portrait to be able to see :D12:01
JimBuntulol, "It's a feature, not a bug!"12:01
BluesKajheh12:01
TJ-hehehe yeah, like getting a pain in my neck from having to turn it sideways!12:01
JimBuntuBe all 007-like, hold your glasses sideways ;-)12:02
lotuspsychjelol12:02
lotuspsychjewe gonna need that chair from sawfish12:02
TJ-Doctor: "what do you mean you think you have prostate cancer, that's a feature not a bug, liek camels in this era of global warming you need to be able to retain lots of water!"12:02
JimBuntulol12:03
lotuspsychjeerm swordfish12:03
JimBuntuOh, lol. So, you basically wanna steal my set up?12:05
lotuspsychjehehe12:05
lotuspsychjeyou sure your a data scientist and no underground h4ck3r?12:05
JimBuntuIn honor of the movie... if you can steal entry into the system, it's yours ;-D12:06
lotuspsychjei can only do on on 'pressure' :p12:06
lotuspsychje*it12:06
JimBuntuhehehehehe12:06
lotuspsychjeroflol12:06
lotuspsychjeuh-oh jk is back with his dead HD12:07
lotuspsychjerun!12:07
* BluesKaj just doesn't react...if it's who i think it is.12:08
lotuspsychjei wont wake him for sure12:09
BluesKajjoins and quits are disabled12:09
lotuspsychjeah12:09
lotuspsychjei put them in dark hex color12:10
BluesKajgot tired of the clutter12:10
JimBuntuWhere did jk go? I don't see them12:10
lotuspsychje* jk^ (5d96c872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.150.200.114) has joined12:11
BluesKajwhy do you guys refer to a user as "them"12:11
TJ-BluesKaj: gender-neutral ?12:11
BluesKaj?12:11
TJ-"it"12:11
JimBuntuI try not to infer gender, so I often go with they, them and such12:11
BluesKajit's plural12:12
JimBuntuBluesKaj, in a strict sense, yes... it's plural. In common day speech, it's not only plural.12:12
lotuspsychjeit sounds like a horror movie 'they!'12:12
BluesKajI'm not that politically correct , a he is a he and a she is still a she , the rest I don't care about12:13
JimBuntu"Why did you give the popcorn to them?" <-- "them" refers to 1 or more people12:13
BluesKajyup12:13
TJ-BluesKaj: it's because "idiot" may offend :p12:14
lotuspsychjei think jimbuntu suffers split psycho personality between hacker-data scientist :p12:14
JimBuntuBluesKaj, I'm not trying to be PC... simply avoiding anything gender-based... this is the internet, we are all only masses of pink stuff encapsulated in bone and flesh12:14
BluesKajan  idiot is till a he or a she :-)12:14
JimBuntulol, idiots are surely still idiots.12:14
BluesKajJimBuntu, why avoid gender ...sorry i don't get it,  if I answer someone with the wrong gender I'm sure that person will correct me.12:16
JimBuntuBluesKaj, I choose to ignore it, that's all. I don't think I have any good reason.12:18
TJ-BluesKaj: it's about not assuming gender before we know12:18
TJ-I know of many woman using IRC that get infurated that they are assumed to be men unless their nickname is something like "princessXXX" or whatever12:19
JimBuntuI'll never understand the outrage from a user with a non-descript nick who is mis-assumed, then again, I don't have to... the only thing I have to do is deal with it.12:20
BluesKajTJ-, I'll assume since it's mostly males in here and usually a female's nick will indicate her gender, that's been my experience12:21
JimBuntuI see it in game chat quite often... nick is something like "DudeWhoKillsAllThings" and then they get mad when someone says "dudes", lol12:21
BluesKajdudettes ;-)12:21
JimBuntuI was at an event before and the person got on stage and said something like "Dudes and dudettes, we have quite a show for you tonight."12:22
* JimBuntu answered the phone and relayed that the 80s want their terms back, to the person on stage12:23
TJ-JimBuntu: you might if everyone assumed you were a woman. I get it because of my real name, everyone assumes it's an acronym (initials) when it isn't. After a while I simply get fed up needing to explain it to people who treat me like I don't know my own name12:23
BluesKajI'm old and reflect my generation's attlitude towards this gender neutral trend as  political correctness crap12:24
TJ-I've had several people tell me point-blank "that can't be your real name, what is it"12:24
TJ-BluesKaj: if we can see the person, or hear the person, we have data to base an assumption on. On here we don't12:24
JimBuntuCome on TJ- , why wont you tell us your REAL name?! lol12:24
* JimBuntu steals TJ-'s wallet... dear Tux! The full name is "The Joker"!12:25
BluesKajTJ-, you see, if I assume wrong it's no big deal  but usually I'm right so it doesn't matter12:26
JimBuntuI had a friend whose name, and that of their siblings, were all engine parts.12:26
TJ-my name is just "Tj" pronounced Teej. No first + last, just that, hence my domain name (created in frustration at people assuming wrongly! (iam.tj))12:28
BluesKajrefering to a single person as they is incorrect English ...that actually bothers me more than getting the gender wrong12:29
JimBuntuTJ-, I have not known a Tj IRL, but I have known others with 2 letter names and I am pretty sure they dealt with the same hassle.12:29
JimBuntuBluesKaj, google define:they12:30
JimBuntuIt's proper to use as a third person singular noun12:30
BluesKajgoogle isn't what i would call a reference nowadays12:31
JimBuntuBluesKaj, that's only the search engine, I can get you a proper etymology as well... should show as being proper for at least 250 years12:31
TJ-OED contains a definition: "2third person plural singular Used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.12:32
JimBuntuMy bad, goes back as a third person singular noun at least 650+ years12:32
TJ-‘ask a friend if they could help’12:32
JimBuntuThe English language doesn't always make clear sense.12:33
TJ-JimBuntu: I blame the Yanks :p12:33
JimBuntulol, I blame everyone. English is such a mix of other languages.... steal from this one, borrow from that one.12:34
TJ-It'd certainly be no good as a programming language when there's so many spellings of words with different meanings that sound the same... well, maybe apart from Ruby!12:34
* JimBuntu still promotes AND as the 27th letter in the alphabet.12:34
TJ-I've been doing a deep-dive into Ruby hacking recently and it is terrible12:35
TJ-When I say "red" do I mean "read" and why would I pronounce "read" as "read/red" when it refers to the past!?12:35
BluesKajsorry m but in my case when referring to ,one person they is still plural and always will be,  especially when it is not 3rd person12:36
JimBuntuBluesKaj, this is how language changes... it starts with one person, then becomes more than one... if it catches on, it becomes the new way. This is fine and part of the improvement process. However you wish to use the word is fine with me, but know... that it's a long standing tradition to use it otherwise.12:38
leftyfbthis is how we end up with words like "fleek"12:39
leftyfbstupid12:39
leftyfb"early 21st century: apparently an arbitrary formation; popularized in a 2014 video post on the social media service Vine by Kayla Newman (‘Peaches Monroee’)."12:39
leftyfbapparently celebrities are allow to just add words to the English language12:40
JimBuntuleftyfb, many words come and go. With the tech of today, things are accelerated... hopefully the loss of new words will also be accelerated.12:40
JimBuntuFWIW: Even Shakespeare used "them" as a singular noun.12:41
BluesKajoops12:45
BluesKajanyway we lost sight of the original idea about gender neutrality, which I for could care less about12:50
BluesKajI for one12:50
JimBuntuNo oops needed, even in his time, it was already an accepted use. It predates him by at least a couple hundred years and was possibly used in the same way going back to Old Norse12:50
JimBuntuI do wonder if this is a regional thing, perhaps it is not as accepted in countries where English is not the native language. This wouldn't explain 'why', but it could explain the how.12:50
BluesKajmy brain doesn't compute referring to a single person as they, it's always been he or she12:56
BluesKajdon't think old norse uses the equivalent to they as singular ...my swedish background makes me think not13:00
JimBuntuBluesKaj, I don't understand gender as a whole... I get 'sex' but not 'gender'. I recognize 4 sexes... male, female, both and neither/neuter.13:01
BluesKajI don't  :-)13:01
JimBuntu'gender' seems to be a complete construct to me. It's all assumptions about a person based on their sex and how people of the same sex act in ones local region.13:02
BluesKajsex refers to humans and gender can include pronouns in other languages such as french etc13:03
BluesKajgotta go ...13:04
JimBuntuBluesKaj, in those uses... isn't gender simply a go-between for the sex of the person though... in reality? la and le... don't REALLY refer to gender and instead actually refer to sex... or used to anyhow. Things are a bit confusing today13:04
JimBuntuBluesKaj, be safe13:04
BluesKajmy power is about ot be shut off for 15 mins or , local Hydro utility is changing pole on the next street13:05
BluesKajback on13:36
BluesKajnormally they can change poles without powering down, but this pole also has a transformer on it13:38
JimBuntuFWIW: heart defibrillators were invented for lineman.14:34
pauljwhi everyone15:40
lotuspsychjegood evening to all17:05
hggdhlotuspsychje: good evening17:19
lotuspsychjehey hggdh how are you today?17:19
hggdhlotuspsychje: life is good. I am alive, and this is good :-)17:20
lotuspsychjehggdh: no hot news from your side?17:20
hggdhnothing. Still waiting for resolution (and hoping, since we can always hope) that police will catch them17:21
lotuspsychjehggdh: has it been reported?17:21
hggdhI *think* so. It's Freenode, and I am not staff, so I do not really know17:22
lotuspsychjekk17:22
hggdh(and I very carefully do not ask)17:22
lotuspsychjehggdh: users slightly going up in main, and hopefully when lts upgrade path fixxed, spam will be gone17:23
lotuspsychjewb EriC^^17:23
EriC^^thanks lotuspsychje17:23
hggdhone hopes indeed. After all, hope is the next-to-last to die17:24
lotuspsychje:p17:24
hggdhbut unless they messed really bad, it will be a long forensics17:25
lotuspsychjeyeah17:26
hggdhand it will depend on the jurisdiction (perhaps slander might apply, perhaps some sort of DDoS would, whatever)17:26
lotuspsychjehggdh: i still think xenial upgraders will hit like a bomb17:26
hggdhI think they already are in. Most of the casual Xenial users do not know the difference, they hear 18.04.1 is out, they try17:27
lotuspsychjei think the masses will come17:28
lotuspsychjethousands of boxes have xenial on them17:28
hggdhand the professional ones... if they have not yet tried test upgrades, they are not going to go in anytime soon17:28
lotuspsychjehggdh: we will see what happens soonish :p17:29
hggdh:-)17:31
=== kallesbar_ is now known as kallesbar
lotuspsychjehggdh: i recently got an update on an artful bug, saying its end of life, will this bug automaticly vanish?17:39
lotuspsychjehggdh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/170234717:40
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1702347 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Graphical glitches in screen by default on 17.10 & 18.04" [Low,Invalid]17:40
lotuspsychjeoh wait its another bug17:41
lotuspsychjehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/171865317:41
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1718653 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[radeon] Windows buttons gone, and titlebars are black, on specific programs on 17.10" [High,Incomplete]17:41
lotuspsychje#1517:41
pragmaticenigmadoes anyone of the bug ticket number for the LTS-to-LTS hold up?17:44
lotuspsychjeno didnt see pragmaticenigma where di you hear?17:45
pragmaticenigmaI thought it was here yesterday17:45
pragmaticenigmai remember someone posted the bug id from launchpad17:45
lotuspsychjeah shoot i missed that17:46
lotuspsychjepragmaticenigma: what time pragmaticenigma ill check the logs17:46
lotuspsychjeyesterday right?17:47
lotuspsychjepragmaticenigma: dont see it for yesterday in discuss17:48
pragmaticenigmalotuspsychje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/176689017:49
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1766890 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,Triaged]17:49
lotuspsychjeaha tnx pragmaticenigma17:49
pragmaticenigmaThough it looks like a few hours ago it moved to triaged17:52
pragmaticenigmahopefully means it's ready to move forward?17:52
lotuspsychjenot sure, lets hope mate17:53
lotuspsychjeand does this affect only lenovo, or all systems?17:53
hggdhlotuspsychje: no, it does not automagically die17:54
lotuspsychjehggdh: do they consider the bug still usefull an an eol non-lts?17:54
lotuspsychjeon17:54
pragmaticenigmaI believe it affect multiple.. DELL XPS 13 was also mentioned in the thread17:54
hggdhlotuspsychje: you can reproduce on Bionic or Cosmic, and update the bug17:54
lotuspsychjepragmaticenigma: ah tnx17:54
lotuspsychjehggdh: its not relevant anymore, bug is solved by updates17:55
hggdhlotuspsychje: if you can pin the update that fix it, then you can update the bug with it, and close fixed17:55
lotuspsychjehggdh: thats not gonna be an easy find, as i only run bionic now17:56
hggdhlotuspsychje: if you cannot find the update, you should still add a comment stating it is now gone, and *still* close fixed17:56
lotuspsychjehggdh: ah kk17:56
lotuspsychjehggdh: arent there cases they remove bugs?17:56
hggdhthis is why vanvugt set it to incomplete17:57
hggdhusually we try NOT to close bugs when a release is EOL-ed17:57
hggdh(the problem may still be there, after all)17:57
lotuspsychjehggdh: ah i see17:58
hggdhif, OTOH, a package has been dropped from the distro, then it would be acceptable to close as -- say -- invalid, since it is EOL-ed and the package is no more17:58
hggdh(as long as it is explained in a comment)17:59
lotuspsychjehggdh: it was in early stages of artful me testing bugs17:59
lotuspsychjehggdh: what happens in 58 days when bug expires?18:01
daftykins!cookie | tomreyn18:17
ubot5tomreyn: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!18:17
daftykins>:D18:17
hggdhlotuspsychje: if a bug expires (which will happen if it is INCOMPLETE), then it is closed INVALID (as far as I can remember)18:20
hggdhof course, the OP can re-open it whenever18:20
=== ghoti_ is now known as ghoti
lotuspsychjehggdh: ok tnx18:40
lotuspsychjehggdh: good? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/171865318:46
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1718653 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[radeon] Windows buttons gone, and titlebars are black, on specific programs on 17.10" [High,Fix released]18:46
hggdhlotuspsychje: perfect, thank you18:47
lotuspsychjethank you :p18:47
lotuspsychjenew factoid18:57
lotuspsychje!pi18:57
ubot5Instructions for installing Ubuntu onto Raspberry Pi systems can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi18:57
leftyfbI wonder if those new images actually work on the pi now18:59
leftyfbpreviously if you used them and then updated, things would go horribly wrong18:59
lotuspsychjedidnt test myself leftyfb19:00
lotuspsychjeducasse: perhaps? ^19:00
leftyfbI'll have to give them a try19:00
lotuspsychjewiki nicely up to date for sure19:01
leftyfbverymuch19:03
lotuspsychjebrb testing a wayland bug, test if its still bad on .119:09
lotuspsychjeand yes its still bad :p19:12
lotuspsychjehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/174014619:15
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1740146 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[AMD/radeon] System slow on wayland, lagging mouse (but fast in Xorg)" [Undecided,Confirmed]19:15
lotuspsychjeupdated19:15
lotuspsychje!info ubuntu-release-upgrader19:27
ubot5Package ubuntu-release-upgrader does not exist in bionic19:27
tomreynlotuspsychje: try mainline, too, there are amd gpu improvements after 4.1519:34
lotuspsychjetomreyn: for wayland specific?19:34
tomreynnot sure19:35
lotuspsychjetomreyn: cause this bug, in xorg all is fine19:35
lotuspsychjetomreyn: ill test it anyway tomorrows tnx19:35
lotuspsychjealmost nap time and its still 34c omg..19:36
tomreynthose days are tough19:37
tomreynfor the years to come, we'll need to dig morecaves ;)19:38
lotuspsychjelol19:38
lotuspsychjeor buy that 100 euro ice fan box19:38
tomreynor move to norway19:38
lotuspsychjelol19:38
lotuspsychjeand my nose freez off, no tnx19:38
lotuspsychjeonly to visit ducasse19:39
lotuspsychjenite nite all19:39
tomreynnorway is looong19:39
lotuspsychjebut beautyfull19:39
tomreynits not cold everywhere19:39
lotuspsychjesleep tight tomreyn19:40
ducassenite lotuspsychje19:40
tomreynand you, lotusflower19:40
EriC^^evening all19:42
oerheksbrrrrr chillin'20:18

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