[03:37] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:19] <EriC^^> morning all
[05:47] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[05:47] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje l
[05:47] <lotuspsychje> how are you today
[05:48] <EriC^^> good thanks you?
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> great :p
[05:49] <EriC^^> :D
[06:05] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:06] <lotuspsychje> hey good morning lordievader
[06:07] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: ddi you go on holiday?
[06:31] <ducasse> good morning
[08:36] <lotuspsychje> updating to .30
[11:36] <lotuspsychje> afternoon TJ-
[11:36] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: good morning (only just up!)
[11:36] <lotuspsychje> cool
[11:37] <TJ-> anything interesting happening?
[11:37] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: main pretty slowly still, usercount going up steady towards 1700
[11:37] <lotuspsychje> no lts upgrade path yet
[11:38] <daftykins> still O_O
[11:38] <TJ-> it's annoying there's not a single place we can look to see the progress on that, like a bug report
[11:38] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu-release should show us right?
[11:39] <lotuspsychje> also seen this passby -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: nvidia-settings (bionic-proposed/main) [390.42-0ubuntu1 => 390.77-0ubuntu0.18.04.1] (ubuntu-desktop)
[11:39] <lotuspsychje> so thats good news
[11:40] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: does your +g block invites too?
[11:42] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: not sure
[11:43] <lotuspsychje> ill send you invite
[11:43] <TJ-> I can't see much I'm outside in the sun having to use black-on-white colour scheme, and weechat renders some items white on white like my own nickname and such so I miss stuff
[11:44] <TJ-> I've also got 26 weechat buffers on the go so unless I'm choosing to be in one I miss stuff
[11:44] <lotuspsychje> lol
[11:44] <lotuspsychje> lucky you have 6 screens to watch on
[11:44] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj afternoon mate
[11:45] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:45] <JimBuntu> Hi BluesKaj
[11:45] <BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
[11:45] <BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu
[11:46] <lotuspsychje> lol nice theme https://www.deviantart.com/phobean/art/Reactionary-WIP-758103576
[11:47] <JimBuntu> lotuspsychje, holy smokes, that's a Linux theme!? They did pretty good!
[11:47] <lotuspsychje> yeah feels real retro
[11:48] <BluesKaj> looks a bit like raspbian pixel DE for RPIs
[11:48] <lotuspsychje> https://github.com/B00merang-Project/Redmond-Themes
[11:48] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I don't have 6 screens, I'm on the 12" Asus T300chi
[11:48] <lotuspsychje> oh :p
[11:49] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: which is why I miss stuff :)
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> :p
[11:49]  * JimBuntu quickly throws multiple LCDs in TJ's direction
[11:50] <lotuspsychje> lol
[11:50]  * lotuspsychje ducks
[11:50]  * lotuspsychje and grabs a few quickly to run away fast
[11:52] <JimBuntu> Dang, lotuspsychje runs fast
[11:56]  * TJ- quacks and ducks
[11:57] <TJ-> I've got 1 external 24" in portrait mode with my programming IDE on
[11:57] <lotuspsychje> cool
[11:59]  * BluesKaj uses his old Panasonic 42" Plasma TV as a monitor ...still working well
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> wow
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> you blink your eyes sometimes BluesKaj ? :p
[11:59] <JimBuntu> +1 for portrait mode
[12:00] <TJ-> BluesKaj: I may put one like that up out here, but a lower-power LED device
[12:00] <BluesKaj> I'm 3M away from it using wireless KB and mouse
[12:00] <lotuspsychje> neat
[12:00] <TJ-> I had the hilarious issue that when I 1st put this dell u2412m out here in landscape mode, every time I put my sun-glasses on the screen blanked!
[12:00] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:01] <TJ-> Turns out the screen has a virtical polarisation filter and my glasses horizontal,so had to turn it to portrait to be able to see :D
[12:01] <JimBuntu> lol, "It's a feature, not a bug!"
[12:01] <BluesKaj> heh
[12:01] <TJ-> hehehe yeah, like getting a pain in my neck from having to turn it sideways!
[12:02] <JimBuntu> Be all 007-like, hold your glasses sideways ;-)
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> we gonna need that chair from sawfish
[12:02] <TJ-> Doctor: "what do you mean you think you have prostate cancer, that's a feature not a bug, liek camels in this era of global warming you need to be able to retain lots of water!"
[12:03] <JimBuntu> lol
[12:03] <lotuspsychje> erm swordfish
[12:05] <JimBuntu> Oh, lol. So, you basically wanna steal my set up?
[12:05] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[12:05] <lotuspsychje> you sure your a data scientist and no underground h4ck3r?
[12:06] <JimBuntu> In honor of the movie... if you can steal entry into the system, it's yours ;-D
[12:06] <lotuspsychje> i can only do on on 'pressure' :p
[12:06] <lotuspsychje> *it
[12:06] <JimBuntu> hehehehehe
[12:06] <lotuspsychje> roflol
[12:07] <lotuspsychje> uh-oh jk is back with his dead HD
[12:07] <lotuspsychje> run!
[12:08]  * BluesKaj just doesn't react...if it's who i think it is.
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> i wont wake him for sure
[12:09] <BluesKaj> joins and quits are disabled
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> ah
[12:10] <lotuspsychje> i put them in dark hex color
[12:10] <BluesKaj> got tired of the clutter
[12:10] <JimBuntu> Where did jk go? I don't see them
[12:11] <lotuspsychje> * jk^ (5d96c872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.150.200.114) has joined
[12:11] <BluesKaj> why do you guys refer to a user as "them"
[12:11] <TJ-> BluesKaj: gender-neutral ?
[12:11] <BluesKaj> ?
[12:11] <TJ-> "it"
[12:11] <JimBuntu> I try not to infer gender, so I often go with they, them and such
[12:12] <BluesKaj> it's plural
[12:12] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, in a strict sense, yes... it's plural. In common day speech, it's not only plural.
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> it sounds like a horror movie 'they!'
[12:13] <BluesKaj> I'm not that politically correct , a he is a he and a she is still a she , the rest I don't care about
[12:13] <JimBuntu> "Why did you give the popcorn to them?" <-- "them" refers to 1 or more people
[12:13] <BluesKaj> yup
[12:14] <TJ-> BluesKaj: it's because "idiot" may offend :p
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> i think jimbuntu suffers split psycho personality between hacker-data scientist :p
[12:14] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I'm not trying to be PC... simply avoiding anything gender-based... this is the internet, we are all only masses of pink stuff encapsulated in bone and flesh
[12:14] <BluesKaj> an  idiot is till a he or a she :-)
[12:14] <JimBuntu> lol, idiots are surely still idiots.
[12:16] <BluesKaj> JimBuntu, why avoid gender ...sorry i don't get it,  if I answer someone with the wrong gender I'm sure that person will correct me.
[12:18] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I choose to ignore it, that's all. I don't think I have any good reason.
[12:18] <TJ-> BluesKaj: it's about not assuming gender before we know
[12:19] <TJ-> I know of many woman using IRC that get infurated that they are assumed to be men unless their nickname is something like "princessXXX" or whatever
[12:20] <JimBuntu> I'll never understand the outrage from a user with a non-descript nick who is mis-assumed, then again, I don't have to... the only thing I have to do is deal with it.
[12:21] <BluesKaj> TJ-, I'll assume since it's mostly males in here and usually a female's nick will indicate her gender, that's been my experience
[12:21] <JimBuntu> I see it in game chat quite often... nick is something like "DudeWhoKillsAllThings" and then they get mad when someone says "dudes", lol
[12:21] <BluesKaj> dudettes ;-)
[12:22] <JimBuntu> I was at an event before and the person got on stage and said something like "Dudes and dudettes, we have quite a show for you tonight."
[12:23]  * JimBuntu answered the phone and relayed that the 80s want their terms back, to the person on stage
[12:23] <TJ-> JimBuntu: you might if everyone assumed you were a woman. I get it because of my real name, everyone assumes it's an acronym (initials) when it isn't. After a while I simply get fed up needing to explain it to people who treat me like I don't know my own name
[12:24] <BluesKaj> I'm old and reflect my generation's attlitude towards this gender neutral trend as  political correctness crap
[12:24] <TJ-> I've had several people tell me point-blank "that can't be your real name, what is it"
[12:24] <TJ-> BluesKaj: if we can see the person, or hear the person, we have data to base an assumption on. On here we don't
[12:24] <JimBuntu> Come on TJ- , why wont you tell us your REAL name?! lol
[12:25]  * JimBuntu steals TJ-'s wallet... dear Tux! The full name is "The Joker"!
[12:26] <BluesKaj> TJ-, you see, if I assume wrong it's no big deal  but usually I'm right so it doesn't matter
[12:26] <JimBuntu> I had a friend whose name, and that of their siblings, were all engine parts.
[12:28] <TJ-> my name is just "Tj" pronounced Teej. No first + last, just that, hence my domain name (created in frustration at people assuming wrongly! (iam.tj))
[12:29] <BluesKaj> refering to a single person as they is incorrect English ...that actually bothers me more than getting the gender wrong
[12:29] <JimBuntu> TJ-, I have not known a Tj IRL, but I have known others with 2 letter names and I am pretty sure they dealt with the same hassle.
[12:30] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, google define:they
[12:30] <JimBuntu> It's proper to use as a third person singular noun
[12:31] <BluesKaj> google isn't what i would call a reference nowadays
[12:31] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, that's only the search engine, I can get you a proper etymology as well... should show as being proper for at least 250 years
[12:32] <TJ-> OED contains a definition: "2third person plural singular Used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.
[12:32] <JimBuntu> My bad, goes back as a third person singular noun at least 650+ years
[12:32] <TJ-> ‘ask a friend if they could help’
[12:33] <JimBuntu> The English language doesn't always make clear sense.
[12:33] <TJ-> JimBuntu: I blame the Yanks :p
[12:34] <JimBuntu> lol, I blame everyone. English is such a mix of other languages.... steal from this one, borrow from that one.
[12:34] <TJ-> It'd certainly be no good as a programming language when there's so many spellings of words with different meanings that sound the same... well, maybe apart from Ruby!
[12:34]  * JimBuntu still promotes AND as the 27th letter in the alphabet.
[12:35] <TJ-> I've been doing a deep-dive into Ruby hacking recently and it is terrible
[12:35] <TJ-> When I say "red" do I mean "read" and why would I pronounce "read" as "read/red" when it refers to the past!?
[12:36] <BluesKaj> sorry m but in my case when referring to ,one person they is still plural and always will be,  especially when it is not 3rd person
[12:38] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, this is how language changes... it starts with one person, then becomes more than one... if it catches on, it becomes the new way. This is fine and part of the improvement process. However you wish to use the word is fine with me, but know... that it's a long standing tradition to use it otherwise.
[12:39] <leftyfb> this is how we end up with words like "fleek"
[12:39] <leftyfb> stupid
[12:39] <leftyfb> "early 21st century: apparently an arbitrary formation; popularized in a 2014 video post on the social media service Vine by Kayla Newman (‘Peaches Monroee’)."
[12:40] <leftyfb> apparently celebrities are allow to just add words to the English language
[12:40] <JimBuntu> leftyfb, many words come and go. With the tech of today, things are accelerated... hopefully the loss of new words will also be accelerated.
[12:41] <JimBuntu> FWIW: Even Shakespeare used "them" as a singular noun.
[12:45] <BluesKaj> oops
[12:50] <BluesKaj> anyway we lost sight of the original idea about gender neutrality, which I for could care less about
[12:50] <BluesKaj> I for one
[12:50] <JimBuntu> No oops needed, even in his time, it was already an accepted use. It predates him by at least a couple hundred years and was possibly used in the same way going back to Old Norse
[12:50] <JimBuntu> I do wonder if this is a regional thing, perhaps it is not as accepted in countries where English is not the native language. This wouldn't explain 'why', but it could explain the how.
[12:56] <BluesKaj> my brain doesn't compute referring to a single person as they, it's always been he or she
[13:00] <BluesKaj> don't think old norse uses the equivalent to they as singular ...my swedish background makes me think not
[13:01] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I don't understand gender as a whole... I get 'sex' but not 'gender'. I recognize 4 sexes... male, female, both and neither/neuter.
[13:01] <BluesKaj> I don't  :-)
[13:02] <JimBuntu> 'gender' seems to be a complete construct to me. It's all assumptions about a person based on their sex and how people of the same sex act in ones local region.
[13:03] <BluesKaj> sex refers to humans and gender can include pronouns in other languages such as french etc
[13:04] <BluesKaj> gotta go ...
[13:04] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, in those uses... isn't gender simply a go-between for the sex of the person though... in reality? la and le... don't REALLY refer to gender and instead actually refer to sex... or used to anyhow. Things are a bit confusing today
[13:04] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, be safe
[13:05] <BluesKaj> my power is about ot be shut off for 15 mins or , local Hydro utility is changing pole on the next street
[13:36] <BluesKaj> back on
[13:38] <BluesKaj> normally they can change poles without powering down, but this pole also has a transformer on it
[14:34] <JimBuntu> FWIW: heart defibrillators were invented for lineman.
[15:40] <pauljw> hi everyone
[17:05] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[17:19] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: good evening
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> hey hggdh how are you today?
[17:20] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: life is good. I am alive, and this is good :-)
[17:20] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: no hot news from your side?
[17:21] <hggdh> nothing. Still waiting for resolution (and hoping, since we can always hope) that police will catch them
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: has it been reported?
[17:22] <hggdh> I *think* so. It's Freenode, and I am not staff, so I do not really know
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> kk
[17:22] <hggdh> (and I very carefully do not ask)
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: users slightly going up in main, and hopefully when lts upgrade path fixxed, spam will be gone
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> wb EriC^^
[17:23] <EriC^^> thanks lotuspsychje
[17:24] <hggdh> one hopes indeed. After all, hope is the next-to-last to die
[17:24] <lotuspsychje> :p
[17:25] <hggdh> but unless they messed really bad, it will be a long forensics
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[17:26] <hggdh> and it will depend on the jurisdiction (perhaps slander might apply, perhaps some sort of DDoS would, whatever)
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: i still think xenial upgraders will hit like a bomb
[17:27] <hggdh> I think they already are in. Most of the casual Xenial users do not know the difference, they hear 18.04.1 is out, they try
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> i think the masses will come
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> thousands of boxes have xenial on them
[17:28] <hggdh> and the professional ones... if they have not yet tried test upgrades, they are not going to go in anytime soon
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: we will see what happens soonish :p
[17:31] <hggdh> :-)
[17:39] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: i recently got an update on an artful bug, saying its end of life, will this bug automaticly vanish?
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1702347
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> oh wait its another bug
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1718653
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> #15
[17:44] <pragmaticenigma> does anyone of the bug ticket number for the LTS-to-LTS hold up?
[17:45] <lotuspsychje> no didnt see pragmaticenigma where di you hear?
[17:45] <pragmaticenigma> I thought it was here yesterday
[17:45] <pragmaticenigma> i remember someone posted the bug id from launchpad
[17:46] <lotuspsychje> ah shoot i missed that
[17:46] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: what time pragmaticenigma ill check the logs
[17:47] <lotuspsychje> yesterday right?
[17:48] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: dont see it for yesterday in discuss
[17:49] <pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1766890
[17:49] <lotuspsychje> aha tnx pragmaticenigma
[17:52] <pragmaticenigma> Though it looks like a few hours ago it moved to triaged
[17:52] <pragmaticenigma> hopefully means it's ready to move forward?
[17:53] <lotuspsychje> not sure, lets hope mate
[17:53] <lotuspsychje> and does this affect only lenovo, or all systems?
[17:54] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: no, it does not automagically die
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: do they consider the bug still usefull an an eol non-lts?
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> on
[17:54] <pragmaticenigma> I believe it affect multiple.. DELL XPS 13 was also mentioned in the thread
[17:54] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: you can reproduce on Bionic or Cosmic, and update the bug
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: ah tnx
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: its not relevant anymore, bug is solved by updates
[17:55] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: if you can pin the update that fix it, then you can update the bug with it, and close fixed
[17:56] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: thats not gonna be an easy find, as i only run bionic now
[17:56] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: if you cannot find the update, you should still add a comment stating it is now gone, and *still* close fixed
[17:56] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: ah kk
[17:56] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: arent there cases they remove bugs?
[17:57] <hggdh> this is why vanvugt set it to incomplete
[17:57] <hggdh> usually we try NOT to close bugs when a release is EOL-ed
[17:57] <hggdh> (the problem may still be there, after all)
[17:58] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: ah i see
[17:58] <hggdh> if, OTOH, a package has been dropped from the distro, then it would be acceptable to close as -- say -- invalid, since it is EOL-ed and the package is no more
[17:59] <hggdh> (as long as it is explained in a comment)
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: it was in early stages of artful me testing bugs
[18:01] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: what happens in 58 days when bug expires?
[18:17] <daftykins> !cookie | tomreyn
[18:17] <daftykins> >:D
[18:20] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: if a bug expires (which will happen if it is INCOMPLETE), then it is closed INVALID (as far as I can remember)
[18:20] <hggdh> of course, the OP can re-open it whenever
[18:40] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: ok tnx
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: good? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1718653
[18:47] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: perfect, thank you
[18:47] <lotuspsychje> thank you :p
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> new factoid
[18:57] <lotuspsychje> !pi
[18:59] <leftyfb> I wonder if those new images actually work on the pi now
[18:59] <leftyfb> previously if you used them and then updated, things would go horribly wrong
[19:00] <lotuspsychje> didnt test myself leftyfb
[19:00] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: perhaps? ^
[19:00] <leftyfb> I'll have to give them a try
[19:01] <lotuspsychje> wiki nicely up to date for sure
[19:03] <leftyfb> verymuch
[19:09] <lotuspsychje> brb testing a wayland bug, test if its still bad on .1
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> and yes its still bad :p
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1740146
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> updated
[19:27] <lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader
[19:34] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: try mainline, too, there are amd gpu improvements after 4.15
[19:34] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: for wayland specific?
[19:35] <tomreyn> not sure
[19:35] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: cause this bug, in xorg all is fine
[19:35] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: ill test it anyway tomorrows tnx
[19:36] <lotuspsychje> almost nap time and its still 34c omg..
[19:37] <tomreyn> those days are tough
[19:38] <tomreyn> for the years to come, we'll need to dig morecaves ;)
[19:38] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:38] <lotuspsychje> or buy that 100 euro ice fan box
[19:38] <tomreyn> or move to norway
[19:38] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:38] <lotuspsychje> and my nose freez off, no tnx
[19:39] <lotuspsychje> only to visit ducasse
[19:39] <lotuspsychje> nite nite all
[19:39] <tomreyn> norway is looong
[19:39] <lotuspsychje> but beautyfull
[19:39] <tomreyn> its not cold everywhere
[19:40] <lotuspsychje> sleep tight tomreyn
[19:40] <ducasse> nite lotuspsychje
[19:40] <tomreyn> and you, lotusflower
[19:42] <EriC^^> evening all
[20:18] <oerheks> brrrrr chillin'