[03:43] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:04] <lotuspsychje> pragmanticenigma found this bug for ltsupgrade:
[04:04] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1766890
[04:22] <guiverc> thanks lotuspsychje (bug info..)
[04:22] <lotuspsychje> np guiverc seems thats what holding up..on different machines
[04:24] <guiverc> & on good side - fix released was marked ~6 hours ago..  :)
[04:27] <lotuspsychje> ah didnt notice that guiverc tnx
[04:27] <lotuspsychje> guiverc: lets keep an eye on upgrade windows today then
[04:33] <lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader xenial
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> !info libc6 xenial
[04:34] <lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader cosmic
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> hmm
[04:36] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: always a pain atheros & realtek
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> when are they gonna fix this working by default
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> default users shouldnt be poking at realtek gits right
[05:34] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1769386 #8 got it working on my bug with a git
[06:09] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: sorry, i missed this entirely
[06:09] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: dont sweat mate im used to idle
[06:13] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: you should document what happens when you try to use the card
[06:14] <tomreyn> so far i think there are only variations of "does not work" on there. which it probably boild down toi, but it may help triaging this to know how it fails.
[06:14] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: like in a syslog tail?
[06:14] <tomreyn> whatever relevant log is on syslog or dmesg, yes
[06:14] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: problem is this happens on a customers box..i cant be there always
[06:14] <tomreyn> or try to bring it up manually and see what the result is
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> this is what i bugged it from customers box
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> hoping for a fix
[06:15] <lotuspsychje> next time ill be there ill run few more tests
[06:16] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: but this bug is really not the first on atheros and realtek...
[06:16] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: definitely not ;)
[06:18] <lotuspsychje> but good idea tomreyn next bug i do remote, ill keep the tail open
[06:19] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: it seems like this is a widespread issue, so it should not be too hard to get more information.
[06:19] <tomreyn> also , this seems to be a workaround: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1779817#19
[06:19] <lotuspsychje> lets c
[06:20] <tomreyn> actually there's only one saying it made it work, 2 saying it didnt
[06:21] <lotuspsychje> interesting find tomreyn
[06:21] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje: comment #39
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: i reported the bug from customers xenial on Uname: Linux 4.13.0-39-generic x86_64
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> so lets assume realtek was working fine below kernel 4.13 and update broke it
[06:22] <tomreyn> xenial now has 4.15, too
[06:22] <tomreyn> for hwe
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> yeah but i reported it broken on 4.13
[06:22] <tomreyn> right
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> on clean install realtek worked find, cant recall wich kernel that was
[06:23] <tomreyn> it must be a regression :-/
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> fine
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> those realteks always work/not work on kernel versions and linux-firmware
[06:23] <tomreyn> you could downgrade the customer machone to 4.4 (GA kernel) if that's an option for them + you, until it's fixed
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: i might do the bionic test also
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> got some new ideas now tomreyn tnx :p
[06:25] <tomreyn> note this kernel wont work with secure boot
[06:25] <tomreyn> but it could work on xenial, i guess
[06:25] <tomreyn> i'm sleepy, ttyl
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> okay mate sleep tight!
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> enjoy the breeze
[06:25] <tomreyn> :) will
[06:37] <ducasse> good morning
[08:52] <mwsb> JimBuntu: Not sure if you know of nfsplus but a somewhat well-known troll with nothing better to do with his time.
[08:53] <JimBuntu> Ah, I did not, thanks
[09:39] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[09:58]  * BluesKaj tries to wake up, but it's too early...damn insomnia  :/
[10:00] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I woke up 5 hours ago, thanks to insomnia
[10:01] <BluesKaj> whoa JimBuntu, guess you'll be napping today :-)
[10:04] <BluesKaj> I don'r sleep in like I used to ...must be one of the signs of old age
[10:07] <BluesKaj> waiting for the coffee to kick in
[10:09] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[10:09] <BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
[10:10] <lotuspsychje> coffee the black gold
[10:11] <BluesKaj> yup
[10:21] <BluesKaj> oh no, not another multiple monitor problem...fixing that is so hit and miss
[10:21] <TJ-> sounds more like multi-GPU
[10:23] <BluesKaj> assumed 2 gpus = 2 monitors
[10:32] <BluesKaj> assumed wrong, it's 5
[10:41] <TJ-> BluesKaj: can you recall where the per-user Xorg log is now? somewhere under $HOME isn't it? My system is still logging to /var/log/ but I've seen a few where it's in $HOME
[10:44] <BluesKaj> TJ-, still have Xorg.0.log in /var/log on 18.10 Cosmic
[10:44] <TJ-> hmmm I wonder under what circumstances its also under $HOME
[10:45] <BluesKaj> haven't heard of that
[10:53] <ducasse> TJ-: ~/.local/share/xorg i think
[10:56] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse,  I don't have that path
[10:57] <TJ-> Thanks ducasse. any idea under what circumstances that happens? is it just for the gdm3/gnome desktop?
[10:58] <ducasse> BluesKaj: me neither, but i'm fairly sure that's it
[10:58] <TJ-> !paste
[10:58] <ducasse> aiui (and i might be wrong) it's used when x is run under your userid instead of root
[10:59] <BluesKaj> I'm receiving this notice when apt updating, should I be concerned?  (appstreamcli:4538): GLib-CRITICAL **: 06:51:35.352: g_atomic_ref_count_dec: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (arc) > 0' failed
[11:00] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1785498
[11:01] <ducasse> BluesKaj: the appstream thing is only used to provide extra information to gnome software, i think
[11:02] <ducasse> at least that's the answer i was given when i asked about it
[11:02] <TJ-> ducasse: re: xorg - so probably thats the way gdm3 is configured in 18.04
[11:03] <BluesKaj> ok thanks  JimBuntu, ducasse ...seems not to affect my updates/upgrades, they still continue after the notice
[11:03] <TJ-> BluesKaj: ducasse I do wish programmers would handle those asserts as reports to the user as well, about what was being attempted
[11:11] <ducasse> TJ-: dunno, i still use lightdm. when this change was introduced i think it was due to systemd changes.
[11:16] <TJ-> yes, sounds about right
[11:18] <ducasse> there was a debian bug report on it, iirc
[11:19] <TJ-> makes sense to not run the server as root
[11:19] <ducasse> it does, sure
[15:31] <lotuspsychje> good morning tomreyn :p
[15:31] <tomreyn> lotuspsychje:  ;) been awake for a while
[15:31] <tomreyn> well, as much as you can be awake at 38°C
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: a users from this morning asked for you, told him you was afk, and he went for rebooting
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> didnt get more feedback from him
[15:32] <tomreyn> uh oh ;)
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> fre..something
[15:32] <tomreyn> got it, thanks
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> kk
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: here it cooled a bit today
[15:33] <tomreyn> nice! i should have a thunderstorm in an hour, too
[15:34] <lotuspsychje> cool
[15:35] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: spain & portugal 40-45c
[15:35] <lotuspsychje> were on the good side :p
[15:38] <tomreyn> omg, i'd just die
[15:39] <tomreyn> this bottom left red blobl is my only hope right now http://i.imgur.com/N1Pezzd.png
[15:42] <lotuspsychje> nice
[15:43] <TJ-> here it comes! just hitting me now, rain that is
[15:43] <TJ-> sat outside with PC
[15:44] <lotuspsychje> nice
[15:46] <tomreyn> hopefulyl your pc didnt get hit
[15:47] <lotuspsychje> hey blackflow
[15:51] <TJ-> I'm under the inside-out room :)
[16:29] <hggdh> TJ-: will look for erge, just read it on -ops
[16:39] <TJ-> hggdh: oh, that was hours ago :)
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> what do you guys think of adding this to !ppapurge ?
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-list-and-remove-ppa-repository-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
[16:40] <hggdh> TJ-: yes, I know... sorry. Just wanted you to know it was not a waste of time to report the user
[16:42] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: nice
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: i found linuxconfig a very decent tut site
[16:43] <hggdh> (although there is one word in the page that is coloured green/blue that I almost cannot read)
[16:43] <TJ-> hggdh: ahhh, thanks
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> and as more users would start using bionic..
[16:43] <hggdh> yes
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: wich word?
[16:44] <TJ-> the green one :p
[16:44] <TJ-> or should i say , the invisible one?
[16:44] <hggdh> actually, all the green ones :-)
[16:44] <tomreyn> there are three: java, master-daily, PPA
[16:44] <lotuspsychje> ah
[16:45] <lotuspsychje> its less visible indeed
[16:46] <tomreyn> i think the guide is sound, just the 'gui way' for removal lacks explanation on how to identify + remove the repo gpg signing key
[16:48] <tomreyn> Better than the current, though: <reply>To disable a PPA from your sources and revert your packages back to default Ubuntu packages, install ppa-purge and use the command: « sudo ppa-purge ppa:<repository-name>/<subdirectory> » – For more information, see http://www.webupd8.org/2009/12/remove-ppa-repositories-via-command.html
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> yeah the webupd8 is flaky
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> but would the linuxconfig one, work on xenial aswell?
[16:49] <lotuspsychje> cause we still got 2 years xenial boxes
[16:49] <tomreyn> this hasn't changes since 14.04 i think
[16:49] <lotuspsychje> kk
[16:50] <tomreyn> so, yes, works on xenial
[16:51] <lotuspsychje> cool
[16:52] <lotuspsychje> but no gpg heh
[16:55] <tomreyn> oh ppa-purge is also not mentioned, that's actually a reason to look for something better, or write it, if you can, somewhere, just like on a wiki which no one can access to.
[16:56] <lotuspsychje> yeah, cause we need that trigger alot
[16:59] <tomreyn> the proper solution would be to add functionality (and a --switch) to apt-add-repostory to purge packages (or package versions) installed from the repository to be removed, like ppa-purge does it.
[16:59] <daftykins> the irony about ppa-purge is you used to have to install it from a PPA
[16:59] <daftykins> >:D
[17:00] <lotuspsychje> !info ppa-purge
[17:00] <lotuspsychje> yayy
[17:00] <daftykins> ah har :>
[17:01] <tomreyn> :) i think it was never that welcome, since it's a bash, not a python script, thus not using the python apt classes as all the other tools do, and since ti was not complete / reliable for a long time. a community contributed tool.
[17:01] <daftykins> ah i see
[17:02] <tomreyn> (i'm guessing a lot there)
[17:04] <TJ-> tomreyn: apt-add-repository has a --remove option
[17:04] <TJ-> tomreyn: doesn't that also purge packets?
[17:04] <TJ-> ahhh, no, I see it doesn't
[17:11] <tomreyn> right
[21:27] <tomreyn> oerheks: fwupd is the firmware updating daemon - just in case oyu're not aware
[21:27] <tomreyn> i dont know how it retrieves its updates, this may depend on the vendor
[21:32] <oerheks> yes, i am looking and reading, maybe a source in his lists, or a cronjob..
[21:53] <tomreyn> hope you don't mind me taking over... i know very little about it, too, though.
[21:55] <daftykins> what's getting updated? :) i think only my toaster is safe from me, at this point
[21:58] <oerheks> interesting indeed, http://termbin.com/pivl
[22:01] <daftykins> hmm gigabyte
[22:01] <daftykins> they want to flash their mobo?
[22:07] <oerheks> a long term wish: a tool that updates firmware, even the bios
[22:08] <oerheks> i am learning tonight
[22:08] <daftykins> is that what's happening? someone wants to update the BIOS on their mobo? because that one has a built-in tool...
[22:08] <daftykins> i can only imagine i have gotten the situation wrong :)
[22:10] <oerheks> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/latest/%23ubuntu.html
[22:10] <oerheks> up to 10 min ago, see the end
[22:10] <daftykins> ty
[22:14] <daftykins> makes no sense why anyone should pursue a Linux based update method when a motherboard has native support free from an OS
[22:19] <oerheks> hmm
[22:19] <oerheks> can uefi be updated from ;linux when a password is set?
[22:20] <oerheks> tom ^
[22:21] <tomreyn> oerheks: i dont know
[22:22] <tomreyn> chances are you'd either need to enter it then, or it will just fail
[22:22] <daftykins> why would you take the risk?
[22:22] <tomreyn> which risk?
[22:23] <tomreyn> (i'm asking since there could be multiple, not because i dont see one)
[22:23] <daftykins> i might have gotten the wrong impression still, but are you talking with that guy about using a Linux based app to update his gigabyte motherboard BIOS?
[22:24] <oerheks> besides risc, i would not allow linux to do that, i find it interesting, but want to know the cuplit users can encounter, so i was thinking about protected firmware like uefi
[22:24] <tomreyn> daftykins: we're talking about the person who reported that their system showed this error message https://i.imgur.com/xKCMsQE.png and i think they had a gigabyte mainboard.
[22:24] <tomreyn> risc or risk :)
[22:24] <daftykins> ah ok so it's unrelated, but for some reason a fwupd thing is running o0
[22:25] <tomreyn> oerheks: uefi has a generic firmware update staging mechanism, so it's entirely possible to design this safely.
[22:25] <tomreyn> the actual update is then only carried out on reboot
[22:26] <tomreyn> also firmwares are almost always signed or at least checksummed nowadays.
[22:27] <oerheks> i am reading https://fwupd.org/users now
[22:27] <daftykins> mmm when my friend was helping me make that modified BIOS, i had to bypass that
[22:27] <tomreyn> daftykins: fwupd and fwupdate\* are installed by default on 18.04.
[22:27] <oerheks> new stuff indeed
[22:28] <tomreyn> last time i read about it, fwupd was considered a stillbirth
[22:28] <daftykins> figures Canonical are touching it then ;D
[22:29] <tomreyn> it's great to have this generic, vendor independant framework, for this purpose. but having this doesn't automatically make cvendors support it.
[22:29] <tomreyn> pressure on them is rising during the past and future years, luckily, though.
[22:30] <daftykins> given how many people use Linux? goodness no :P
[22:30] <oerheks> lot of work to do https://fwupd.org/vendorlist
[22:30] <tomreyn> proprietary firmwares for things as central as the mainbord you acquired should be a no go.
[22:30] <daftykins> if i were at Asus i'd just laugh
[22:31] <tomreyn> daftykins: i doubt fwupd is strictly linux dependant. well the imlementation probably is, but i'm sure it could be adapted for other OS.
[22:32] <tomreyn> wow, this list has grown
[22:32] <daftykins> i'll stick to native tools :D
[22:32] <tomreyn> last time i looked at it i think it had 3 records
[22:33] <tomreyn> well those are native tools. they use the mechanism uefi offers for staging FW updates
[22:33] <tomreyn> for mainboard that is
[22:33] <tomreyn> not sure about other devices
[22:34] <daftykins> quite like my fancy modern Asus mobos being able to read the files straight off even NTFS HDDs to update from
[22:36] <tomreyn> https://lwn.net/Articles/761860/
[22:38] <tomreyn> looks like hey may actuall make it happen, that'd be awesome.
[22:44] <daftykins> is there a rule that all open source related sites have to appear as if from the 90s? :)
[22:49] <pauljw> they're probably all running on 90s servers
[22:49] <daftykins> xD
[22:59] <tomreyn> © R.M.S. web design
[23:00] <tsimonq2> Uhm... ubuntu.com is kinda open source related and it looks *beautiful*
[23:00] <tsimonq2> So does Lubuntu.me. ;)
[23:00] <daftykins> quiet you! ;D
[23:13] <pauljw> RMS - another topic that gives me a headache.  if he would have spend a tenth of the effort that he has expended on dissertations re: why we should call linux gnulinux, writing code, he may actually have a working Hurd kernel.  30yrs later...
[23:15] <daftykins> he's too busy trying to find a parrot and asking to borrow other peoples phones so he doesn't have to touch closed source ;D
[23:15] <pauljw> heheh
[23:16] <oerheks> i am fighting the image of an eating-toenail-guy
[23:16] <pauljw> lol
[23:20] <pragmaticenigma> who is RMS pauljw ?
[23:20] <tomreyn> IMO he's > current U.S. president. a mean way to kill a discussion, i know.,
[23:21] <tomreyn> stallman, the Gnu behind the GNU
[23:22] <pragmaticenigma> that's what I thought... the RM threw me
[23:23] <pragmaticenigma> I think most OpenSource project sites look 90s is because that's when the project started and most devs are trying to write software, not make a pretty website
[23:23] <pragmaticenigma> much better tools for content management today that reduce the repetiveness of web develpement of yesteryear
[23:23] <pragmaticenigma> I think those kids today had no idea, we used to have to code each page by hand, top to bottom
[23:23] <pragmaticenigma> and to make a style change meant editing every single page on the site
[23:24] <pragmaticenigma> now how stallman thinks usign a land line is safe, when most of the MA-Bell was all closed source
[23:27] <daftykins> doubt they've all been online that long
[23:28] <pragmaticenigma> oh... it's fun when a new hire comes out of college and gets a real taste of supporting legacy applications
[23:28] <pragmaticenigma> WebForms for life!!!
[23:32] <oerheks> grinn https://me.me/i/a-ggag-com-1988-picard-introduces-2002-bill-gates-introduces-8788255
[23:33] <pragmaticenigma> far as stallman goes ... it's true that we really shouldn't lump it as Linux... since Linux is only the kernel... but how does one give a name to a bunch of things with that as a common thread
[23:34] <daftykins> well just to name what you're running you have to have a lengthy conversation and also cover the stupid pretentious pronunciations :<
[23:35] <pauljw> only the kernel, which explains why after 30yrs he still can't manage to get a working one.
[23:37] <pragmaticenigma> pauljw: stallman doesn't have anything to do with linux kernel... that's Torvalds baby
[23:37] <pragmaticenigma> stallman => userspace, torvalds => systemspace
[23:40] <daftykins> i believe pauljw was talking about Hurd?
[23:40] <daftykins> can't say i'm familiar
[23:40] <pauljw> i know whose baby it is, and that's what is driving little Ricky crazy.  the GNU project which is RMS's is still trying to get the Hurd kernel to run.
[23:49] <tomreyn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWZtcxWiJjE
[23:49] <tomreyn> gnu hurd release date poll
[23:51] <daftykins> i Hurd you like delays
[23:52] <tomreyn> sure, i live in berlin, we love delays.
[23:52] <daftykins> :D
[23:52] <tomreyn> you might have heard about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport
[23:53] <tomreyn> i suspect HURD will release first
[23:56] <daftykins> hmm nope
[23:57] <pauljw> no way...