[00:22] <daftykins> toodle pipski
[06:52] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:33] <zxmoy-pi> belated o/
[09:34] <brobostigon> o/
[09:58] <daftykins> \o
[10:22] <knightwise> hey everyone
[11:04] <daftykins> heh some senior clients are struggling with being switched to G Suite email from Thunderbird
[11:05] <daftykins> no way i'm going back to supporting naff desktop clients
[11:08] <diddledan> is that senior as in important, or senior as in old fogeys? ;-p
[11:08] <daftykins> the latter :D
[11:08] <daftykins> self-confessed 'luddites'
[11:08] <diddledan> \o/
[11:09] <daftykins> i got tired of the emergency email recovery after the granddaughter repeatedly throwing drinks over the laptops and PCs over the years
[11:09] <daftykins> much better to have something that's accessible from elsewhere in the event of another beverage bonanza ;D
[11:09] <diddledan> in lookout.pst files?
[11:10] <daftykins> nah they're too tight to license Office even
[11:12] <daftykins> some seem to really resist threaded emails
[11:14] <diddledan> o_O
[11:15] <diddledan> weirdos
[11:15] <zxmoy-pi> well... thunderbird... used to love it but they completely mozillaed it...
[11:15] <daftykins> it's sucked from inception really, no decent import/export features so it's tough to get things out when you want to escape, too
[11:16] <zxmoy-pi> when i was using it, it was like a better version of outlook express which was my preferred client on windows way back when
[11:16] <zxmoy-pi> i could store my email profile on ipod classic and access it on mac or pc from the ipod
[11:17] <daftykins> mmm though it's never hard to beat the MS defaults that should never be touched with a bargepole :D i think i did originally put it in for these folk in the early 2000s
[11:17] <zxmoy-pi> back then it was good
[11:17] <daftykins> i'd not go that far :D
[11:17] <daftykins> the idea of a client at all now just makes me laugh
[11:17] <diddledan> I _really_ hate the verbose reply header on lookout emails
[11:18] <zxmoy-pi> i abandoned it when they 'improved' it by changing the database backend that slowed it down and made search broken
[11:18] <diddledan> 5 lines for every reply
[11:18] <daftykins> diddledan: huh?
[11:18] <diddledan> let me dig one out
[11:19] <daftykins> zxmoy-pi: seems they did give them a dev again so this new v60 is the first change in forever
[11:19] <daftykins> i was horrified to see that an email account is mandatory before you can even start using it though, sometimes i want to just manipulate storage files with it, not use email
[11:20] <diddledan> this is the header included on emails when you click reply in lookout:
[11:20] <diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kfHOYk75/
[11:21] <diddledan> with the reply above that usually
[11:21] <diddledan> backasswards replies :-)
[11:22] <daftykins> ah in the message body?
[11:22] <diddledan> yup
[11:22] <diddledan> what's wrong with "On $date, $who said:"
[11:22] <daftykins> once i've had a to and fro with folks i delete everything in replies and just have single sentence responses :D none of that repeated signature rubbish, too
[11:23] <daftykins> or forced ongoing "hi, message, bye"
[11:23] <diddledan> lookout doesn't indent the replied-to content either
[11:24] <daftykins> oh another of my clients website guys has gone AWOL, not replied to either of us in months
[11:24] <diddledan> oh dear
[11:24] <daftykins> he seems to be using one of those security plugins for their wordpress so it's just locked out all login attempts on the first try, too
[11:24] <daftykins> seems ace
[11:24] <daftykins> :D
[11:26] <diddledan> hah. just had an email from CPC claiming to promote "NEW IN: Freesat HD Recorders" - of the four products listed, one is a freesat box, the other three are freeview boxes
[11:26] <daftykins> \o/
[11:27] <zxmoy-pi> i really should get a tv when they sort out the whole digital tv thing.... any day now.... ::waits:: :-)
[11:27] <diddledan> "why is this email saying it's freesat?" .. "well there's one freesat box"
[11:27] <daftykins> what do you mean by 'sort it out' ?
[11:28] <diddledan> wait, digital tv isn't sorted out?
[11:28] <diddledan> oh, ireland
[11:28] <daftykins> xD
[11:28] <diddledan> thems be dragon waters
[11:28] <daftykins> in fairness i've heard that a couple of channels have dumped freesat entirely so are only available on freeview now
[11:29] <diddledan> yeah, some of the channel 4 stuff is only on freeview now
[11:29] <daftykins> and Dave
[11:29] <diddledan> oh yeah, dave
[11:29] <daftykins> and you can't get much on freeview down here since nobody is willing to pay to broadcast it for some reason
[11:29] <diddledan> :-(
[11:29] <diddledan> so you're stuck with content-tv or statellites?
[11:30] <diddledan> continent*
[11:30] <daftykins> well because town here is on the east coast and built on a hill, the only line-of-sight transmitter is over on Jersey, that's the only reason i picked up a lot of French channels the time i played with the HDHomeRun box i got
[11:30] <diddledan> or do you have a weird islands tv?
[11:31] <daftykins> we either get local news or BBC south-west on the usual suspects
[11:31]  * diddledan petpet hdhr
[11:31] <daftykins> you got one is it?
[11:31] <diddledan> yup
[11:31] <daftykins> mines now in London so i can VPN up to my clients place then stream it from there :D
[11:31] <daftykins> own personal IPTV
[11:32] <diddledan> got my plex configured to use it
[11:32] <daftykins> i wanted to play with that so his smart TVs down in Spain could tune in via the native Plex app, but the only thing we have to host PMS in London is the synology NAS which isn't a transcode capable model
[11:32] <daftykins> so it was a non-starter sadly
[11:33] <diddledan> dang
[11:33] <daftykins> however with the help of a mate, we knocked up a .m3u playlist with all the channels, so you can just fire up a channel at will
[11:33] <daftykins> (by loading the playlist in VLC)
[11:34] <daftykins> that gets around needing the HDHomeRun client app, so it works fine over the VPNs
[11:34] <diddledan> you should be able to access a rudimentary channel list on http://$hdhr-ip/
[11:35] <daftykins> oddly we found that it'd permit the first 1 or 2 visits then the 3rd would get error'd
[11:35] <daftykins> the channels aren't gonna change really though, so the static playlist works nicely
[11:36] <daftykins> also means i can remove the unsavoury channels so their young son won't see them
[11:36] <diddledan> yey
[11:51] <zxmoy-pi> for me digitial tv's main problem is that everywere sells smart tvs and i don't want a smart tv... oh and reality tv filling the channels was a reason not to replace my last tv when it died...
[11:52] <daftykins> you do need to get over the tinfoil hat approach to tech, if you don't want to use the features just don't put it on the network via wired/wifi - no reason to eschew the entire product line
[11:52] <daftykins> the very same hardware providing the modern image processing tech is what guarantees a model becomes smart, so you can't have one without the other now really
[11:52] <zxmoy-pi> you don't know me at all :-D
[11:53] <daftykins> definitely agree on the utter tripe content on broadcast being a good reason not to bother, although i just tend to use mine as glorified monitors
[11:54] <zxmoy-pi> i _have_ thought of getting a really nice monitor and adding a cheap media stick of some sort other than google
[11:56] <daftykins> unlikely to get a truly normally behaving one with HDMI and speakers, even with smart TVs you'd end up going to an external device at some point since they get dumped for support after a couple of years
[11:57] <daftykins> a friend up in England there had tried to go super cheap with a 'Seizo' brand TV from Currys, £160 and 32" - but the software seized up within 2 weeks of use, stopping all functions from working
[11:57] <zxmoy-pi> yeah, sound i suspect i'd be ok with a bt headset or even wired headphones.
[11:58] <zxmoy-pi> when you need to reboot your tv.... :-)
[11:58] <daftykins> it'd be rare to even find a socket in a monitor though
[11:59] <daftykins> can't avoid updates!
[12:01] <zxmoy-pi> was reading a few days back of a phone shipped with bitcoin mining malware in rom... security and updates are a bad joke these days....
[12:01] <daftykins> well they are when you buy the shifty unknown brands as that one was
[12:02] <zxmoy-pi> which means there will never be a new up and coming brand?
[12:02] <daftykins> also a lot of these reports refer to China where they typically get their apps through sharing the packages or using suspect third party sources so all bets are off from the outset, can't let the truth get in the way of a good headline though
[12:03] <daftykins> sure there will, like OnePlus was... but then they had a bit of a fiasco about data harvesting from devices and so on too
[12:03] <daftykins> i'm just pretty sure that particular story was an asia-only brand that didn't fill you with confidence just reading the name of
[12:05] <zxmoy-pi> yeah, but i do see some wacky brands in some of the more obscure phone shops about dublin... how does the average punter protect themselves
[12:05] <daftykins> it's not like the common man has ever truly been catered for with tech
[12:06] <zxmoy-pi> all the 'best' phone shops are in working class areas here...
[12:07] <daftykins> high street shop rent must be as insane as the town here
[12:07] <daftykins> more empty spots than open shops, now
[12:07] <zxmoy-pi> dublin is stupid money expensive... apple did look to open a store but decided dublin was too expensive... :-)
[12:08] <daftykins> heh figures
[12:10] <zxmoy-pi> unless they want to open a stall next to honest ivans phone repair shop next to the halal butchers on moore street.... :-P
[12:12] <daftykins> hmm i should get another machine down to the charity shop today, help clear out my office ;)
[12:14] <zxmoy-pi> any of the others sold, do you know?
[12:18] <daftykins> the staff were still making space for it last i heard, but this is the last of the 3 i was gonna get them going on, then we'll see how it goes
[12:18] <zxmoy-pi> fingers crossed...