[05:15] <Babloyi> UPDATE FINALLY HERE :D
[05:15] <Babloyi> now I go
[06:47] <Babloyi> that didn't go well at all...
[06:52] <sim642> Babloyi, how so
[06:52] <Babloyi> a was told "Your system could not be upgraded properly". Then after I clicked OK on that, I was told "Your system has been upgraded" :D
[06:53] <Babloyi> now I've got a bunch of broken updates...which I think I fixed
[06:53] <Babloyi> except sopel which for some reason gives me a crash on startup (I haven't even set it to run on startup)
[06:54] <Babloyi> lets explore some more and see if everything is working
[06:54] <sim642> Could've gone worse I guess. I'm gonna have to upgrade soon too, been waiting for it for long
[06:54] <Babloyi> good luck
[07:14] <escimo> My experience with upgrading LTS-versions is poor. It usually breaks something
[07:15] <escimo> But this time, it only broke some text in programs that were in the "system tray", such as PIA. But a reinstall of the program fixed the issue
[07:18] <Babloyi> yeah, my skype system tray icon seems to be distorted
[07:18] <Babloyi> but that's not really an issue ;D
[07:53] <sim642> I've had some tray icons "zoomed in" for years now I think. Maybe happened with 16.04, never figured out what's the deal
[07:53] <sim642> I have two machines with pretty much the same setup and the icons which are zoomed in are different and it makes no sense
[07:54] <Babloyi> it was fine before I upgraded, but Steam wasn't, and it is fine now :D
[07:54] <Babloyi> I've got 2 Wi-Fi icons on my system-tray, though :D
[07:57] <Spass> Babloyi, yeah, that issue with doubled tray icons is known, no solution yet, but as a workaround you can hide that second icon in the settings
[07:59] <Spass> it will show a small arrow to unhide/hide the chosen icons, but IMHO arrow looks better that two the same icons
[07:59] <Spass> I have this issue with Redshift also
[07:59] <Babloyi> done, I guess
[07:59] <Babloyi> thanks :D
[08:00] <Babloyi> also, speaking of, I'm not really fond of gmusicbrowser, there some other lightweight music player that plays nice with xubuntu?
[08:00] <Babloyi> cursory internet search suggests Audacious, QMMP or Sayonara
[08:00] <Spass> gmusicbrowser is no longer a default music player in Xubuntu 18.04
[08:01] <Babloyi> oh, well, I upgraded to 18.04 right now
[08:01] <Babloyi> and that's all I have
[08:01] <Babloyi> what's the default?
[08:01] <knome> it's kept for you because you had it installed
[08:01] <Spass> yeah, Xubuntu only uses Parole now
[08:01] <Babloyi> I'm happy to remove it :D
[08:01] <Babloyi> oh
[08:01] <Babloyi> parole is a media player...seems more geared towards video?
[08:02] <Babloyi> I had parole on 16.04 as well, had never installed it (never used it either :D)
[08:02] <knome> to clarify what Spass said, xubuntu doesn't have a dedicated media *manager* any more
[08:02] <knome> parole can play audio for sure, but if you have a music library, it likely won't be enough for you
[08:02] <Spass> Rhythmbox works fine on my Xubuntu, and it integrates with the panel sound menu
[08:03] <knome> --> https://xubuntu.org/news/small-and-noisy/
[08:03] <Babloyi> isn't it a bit finicky with large music libraries?
[08:03] <knome> so basically this: https://xubuntu.org/news/tag/my-media-manager/
[08:03] <knome> Babloyi, please read what i said...
[08:03] <Babloyi> Rhythmbox
[08:03] <Babloyi> I was referring to what Spass suggested
[08:04] <knome> aha, sure.
[08:04] <knome> but check the last link i posted
[08:04] <knome> it has some other suggestions...
[08:04] <Babloyi> alright, thanks :D. The first one you linked was from 2016 :O
[08:05] <Babloyi> wait...they're all at least 2 years old
[08:05] <knome> yes, because this change *was* introduced for xubuntu 16.04
[08:05] <knome> the content is still mainly accurate
[08:05] <Babloyi> I don't think Banshee has been updated in like...5 years :D
[08:06] <knome> ...but it still works?
[08:06] <Babloyi> I guess :D
[08:06] <Babloyi> I wish these lists pointed out the bad stuff too
[08:06] <knome> isn't all good and bad stuff subjective?
[08:07] <knome> except "there's a bug that stops this software from working completely"?
[08:07] <Babloyi> well, some players are heavier than others, some are more lightweight. Some have greater features, some have fewer. Some have stuff I don't need, some don't
[08:07] <knome> yes indeed
[08:07] <knome> "stuff *i* need"
[08:08] <Babloyi> :D
[08:08] <Babloyi> ignore that last point, then
[08:08] <knome> and some people definitely do prefer a lightweight one
[08:08] <knome> but that likely means it lacks some features they like
[08:08] <Babloyi> I mean, I wouldn't specifically look for it to mention stuff I need, but if it gives a comparison of features
[08:08] <Babloyi> like all that radio stuff, online lyric collection, internet related things
[08:08] <Babloyi> I don't need that
[08:09] <Spass> funny you're talking about music players, because I've just finished my small guide for Polish Xubuntu site like an hour ago...
[08:09] <Spass> https://xubuntu-pl.neocities.org/porady/odtwarzacze-muzyki.html
[08:09] <Spass> but I doubt it will be useful in that case :P
[08:10] <Babloyi> :D
[08:10] <Babloyi> now translate it
[08:10] <Spass> it's for ew users, so you probably know everything that's in it
[08:11] <knome> Babloyi, my final suggestion is to maybe focus on the positives; at least you have this much information at your hand; now go figure and try out yourself what suits best for you
[08:11] <knome> because you surely do have personal preferences...
[08:11] <Spass> s/ew/new
[08:12] <Babloyi> blargh
[08:12] <Babloyi> I'll just go with Audacious, I guess
[08:13] <knome> sorry for not chewing your food for you!
[08:13] <knome> (:
[08:13] <Babloyi> :O
[08:13] <Babloyi> yuck
[08:13] <knome> indeed...
[08:13] <Spass> Rhythmbox, Quod Libet, Clementine, Exaile, GNOME Music, Amarok, DeaDBeeF... happy testing :)
[08:13] <Babloyi> doesn't list Saynara OR Audacious :O
[08:14] <Babloyi> and Amarok uses KDE, doesn't it?
[08:14] <knome> Qt.
[08:14] <Babloyi> hmmmm
[08:14] <knome> (which is the toolkit used by KDE...)
[08:14] <Babloyi> I guess because it was the default on kubuntu, I figured it used KDE
[08:15] <Spass> Clementine is also Qt based, doesn't mean you can't use it on Xubuntu, like VLC
[08:15] <knome> see? Spass gave you more alternatives to pick from and the only thing you do is complain he didn't list everything available?
[08:15] <knome> clearly we can't win here...
[08:15] <Babloyi> :O
[08:15] <Babloyi> I'm not fighting, knome
[08:15] <Babloyi> I love you dearly
[08:15] <Spass> there's so many of them :)
[08:15] <knome> me neither, but you're asking for impossible things ;)
[08:15] <Babloyi> am I truly?
[08:16] <knome> you are asking us to tell which media manager is best for you, sure it's impossible
[08:16] <Babloyi> I didn't ask that :O
[08:16] <Babloyi> I asked what was the best lightweight music player for xubuntu
[08:16] <knome> mpd ;)
[08:16] <Babloyi> :D
[08:16] <knome> but
[08:16] <knome> "best"
[08:16] <Babloyi> terminal
[08:16] <knome> that's subjective
[08:16] <knome> so there we go... :P
[08:17] <Babloyi> alright, the most lightweight player for xubuntu that has a GUI :P
[08:17] <knome> why don't you try a few alternatives?
[08:17] <knome> gmusicbrowser.
[08:17] <Babloyi> really?
[08:17] <Babloyi> kept crashing on me
[08:17]  * knome shrugs
[08:17] <knome> afaik..
[08:17] <Babloyi> but maybe upgrading to 18.04 will have fixed that
[08:18] <knome> who knows, i don't even know what kind of crashes you had :)
[08:18] <knome> but seriously, if i were you, i'd try out a few alternatives
[08:18] <Babloyi> ok
[08:18] <knome> and if you want to avoid extra dependencies, avoid those that use Qt
[08:19] <knome> then you should be mostly fine, but every manager likely pulls in some extra dependencies
[08:19] <Babloyi> (I'll probably pick one to download and end up sticking with it out of laziness unless it has some major problem :D)
[08:19] <knome> whether that is acceptable for you or not is left for you to decide..
[08:20] <knome> ultimately, i would personally pick any software that worked the best for me regardless of the "lightweightness"
[08:20] <Babloyi> well, lack of lightweightness is the issue I most often face
[08:20] <knome> though this does include the consideration that if any software is way too heavy for my system, it'll likely feel sluggish and then i'll just likely not prefer that..
[08:20] <Babloyi> like, I have a library with music in the tens of thousands, so stuff that loads slowly is annoying
[08:21] <knome> gmusicbrowser is good with that kind of stuff
[08:21] <Babloyi> and then gmusicbrowser has these weird audio rendering issues
[08:21] <Babloyi> the music crackles :D
[08:21] <knome> not for me
[08:21] <Babloyi> which I thought was a problem with my earphones, but it turned out to be with everythin
[08:21] <knome> maybe you want to try another backend or something
[08:22] <Babloyi> I just upgraded to 18.04, so who knows, maybe it will work better now
[08:28] <Spass> Babloyi, I think Quod Libet should be on your shortlist to test, uses GTK, lightweight and modular (plugins)
[08:28] <Spass> and under active development
[08:28] <Spass> anyway, bbl
[08:35] <Babloyi> alright, thanks
[09:09] <Babloyi> hmmmm....pondering the stuff to remove for a fresh start...is there any use for abiword if I have mousepad and libreoffice writer?
[09:10] <Babloyi> it seems like a sort of inbetween text editor :D
[14:04] <sim642> Ugh great: An unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade.
[14:24] <sim642> Got that fixed by removing ubuntu toolchain test PPA luckily
[14:24] <sim642> Now my /boot is full and autoremove won't remove anything...
[17:23] <zleap> hi can someone update the bot in the #xubuntu-unregistered channel so it points to the correct place toregister nicknames
[17:23] <zleap> please
[17:24] <zleap> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration should be the correct link
[20:15] <sim642> Finally managed the upgrade, I have no network manager UI anywhere anymore and the fonts look different
[20:20] <Spass> sim642, try adding Status Notifier plugin to the panel and check your font settings in the 'Appearance'
[20:21] <sim642> The panel has both notification area and indicator plugin
[20:21] <sim642> Just as before
[20:21] <sim642> But like, no network settings in settings either
[20:21] <sim642> Also, I know where to change it but I have no idea what it was before
[20:22] <sim642> Was some default font changed?
[20:22] <Spass> "Status Notifier" is a new plugin, you need to add it
[20:22] <sim642> That's even worse than the other two I have
[20:23] <sim642> It just shows gtk-redshift, no dropbox nor sound either
[20:23] <Spass> "Indicators" are not really needed anymore, maybe you need to restart your panel
[20:24] <Spass> not sure about the default font settings, but I think nothing really changed there
[20:25] <sim642> If indicators isn't needed then where should the audio indicator be
[20:25] <sim642> and still, no network manager
[20:25] <Spass> there is a new sound plugin, PulseAudio, you need to add it
[20:26] <Spass> I'll show you the defaults in 1 sec
[20:26] <sim642> So the indicator with media player controls included is now gone?
[20:26] <sim642> I have default font as Sans 10
[20:27] <sim642> But it immediately stands out different than before upgrading, it's a small thing that you easily notice different
[20:28] <Spass> sim642, https://ibb.co/j9HYbU
[20:29] <Spass> you can control the media player from the new sound plugin
[20:29] <sim642> Oh, they're just not listed there when not running?
[20:30] <Spass> you need to run them once to show up
[20:30] <sim642> Noto Sans 10 looks more like what it was before but hmm, still feels slightly wrong, oh well
[20:30] <Spass> they should stay after that
[20:30] <sim642> Oh ok
[20:30] <sim642> Still, the missing network manager UI is kinda problematic
[20:30] <sim642> I suppose I should have network-manager-gnome that provides nm-applet right?
[20:31] <Spass> network-manager and network-manager-gnome, yes
[20:31] <sim642> I have the list of removed packages here and it doesn't seem like it was removed though
[20:31] <sim642> so I'm confused
[20:32] <brainwash> open a terminal windows, and run "nm-applet"
[20:32] <brainwash> window
[20:32] <sim642> I don't have it, that's the thing
[20:32] <sim642> But now I really wanna know why
[20:32] <Spass> make sure you have it installed, if yes maybe try to reinstall
[20:32] <sim642> Because I had it before
[20:34] <sim642> apt's history.log says it should've been upgraded
[20:35] <sim642> but it's removed now...
[20:36] <sim642> Because if that package somehow disappeared without a trace, it's probably not the only thing
[20:39] <brainwash> this should have been properly logged though
[20:39] <sim642> I found now in apt's term.log that it was removed
[20:39] <sim642> But the new version was never installed
[20:39] <sim642> Although history.log listed it under Upgrade:
[20:40] <sim642> apt-cache still lists the older version like: 1.2.6-0ubuntu0.16.04.4 -1 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[20:40] <sim642> Neither that nor the correct version being installed
[20:41] <brainwash>   Candidate: 1.8.10-2ubuntu1
[20:41] <brainwash> that version is listed?
[20:41] <sim642> I have that too yes, uninstalled
[20:42] <sim642> but I have the old version listed uninstalled too for some reason
[20:42] <sim642> Which probably means something
[20:42] <brainwash> maybe because it is still present in the package cache
[20:42] <brainwash> and could be installed from there
[20:42] <brainwash> just a guess
[20:44] <sim642> Status: deinstall ok config-files
[20:45] <sim642> I feel like I'll need to have a script that double checks every package that apt promised to upgrade
[20:45] <brainwash> you could reinstall the meta package xubuntu-core (or xubuntu-desktop), and check what new packages it will pull in
[20:45] <sim642> to check if it's installed
[20:46] <sim642> because right now I'm not sure anything is correct anymore
[20:47] <brainwash> hence my suggestion
[20:47] <sim642> Yeah, doing that now
[20:48] <sim642> That's installing 74 new packages now, which is even more worrying
[20:49] <sim642> And that doesn't cover any of the software I've installed on top of the clean system that may be missing in action
[20:49] <brainwash> indeed
[20:49] <sim642> I still can't understand how apt would remove a package for upgrading and never install it back
[20:50] <Spass> not really related, but it may be a good idea to check "software-properties-gtk" settings on 'Other Software' tab, maybe some old repos are still enabled there
[20:50] <brainwash> well
[20:51] <sim642> Spass, that's all disabled for now as it should be
[20:51] <brainwash> there should be an upgrade log, right?
[20:51] <sim642> Well yes, there are two files apt keeps about this: history.log and apt.log
[20:51] <brainwash> something else
[20:52] <brainwash> /var/log/dist-upgrade/
[20:52] <brainwash> got this?
[20:52] <sim642> I already grepped that, it has no mentions of network-mananger-gnome even
[20:53] <sim642> Besides the apt.log copy also there I think
[20:53] <brainwash> maybe hidden inside some .tar.gz?
[20:53] <sim642> Which just lists it as to be upgraded too
[20:54] <sim642> apt-clone_system_state.tar.gz is the only such thing there
[20:54] <brainwash> probably not in there
[20:54] <sim642> Yeah
[20:55] <sim642> apt's term.log is the most detailed thing about it, it actually has a trace of the package being removed at first
[20:55] <brainwash> my only explanation would be that the upgrade process was interrupted somehow, and the system then booted into a semi upgraded state
[20:57] <sim642> Some error interrupted apt which required me to fix a problem manually but manually continuing dist-upgrade worked fine
[20:57] <sim642> Seems like it somehow forgot a package between the two
[21:00] <sim642> But AFAIK that's not supposed to happen, for the majority of packages it correctly knows it's supposed to continue upgrading them