[05:15] UPDATE FINALLY HERE :D [05:15] now I go [06:47] that didn't go well at all... [06:52] Babloyi, how so [06:52] a was told "Your system could not be upgraded properly". Then after I clicked OK on that, I was told "Your system has been upgraded" :D [06:53] now I've got a bunch of broken updates...which I think I fixed [06:53] except sopel which for some reason gives me a crash on startup (I haven't even set it to run on startup) [06:54] lets explore some more and see if everything is working [06:54] Could've gone worse I guess. I'm gonna have to upgrade soon too, been waiting for it for long [06:54] good luck [07:14] My experience with upgrading LTS-versions is poor. It usually breaks something [07:15] But this time, it only broke some text in programs that were in the "system tray", such as PIA. But a reinstall of the program fixed the issue [07:18] yeah, my skype system tray icon seems to be distorted [07:18] but that's not really an issue ;D [07:53] I've had some tray icons "zoomed in" for years now I think. Maybe happened with 16.04, never figured out what's the deal [07:53] I have two machines with pretty much the same setup and the icons which are zoomed in are different and it makes no sense [07:54] it was fine before I upgraded, but Steam wasn't, and it is fine now :D [07:54] I've got 2 Wi-Fi icons on my system-tray, though :D [07:57] Babloyi, yeah, that issue with doubled tray icons is known, no solution yet, but as a workaround you can hide that second icon in the settings [07:59] it will show a small arrow to unhide/hide the chosen icons, but IMHO arrow looks better that two the same icons [07:59] I have this issue with Redshift also [07:59] done, I guess [07:59] thanks :D [08:00] also, speaking of, I'm not really fond of gmusicbrowser, there some other lightweight music player that plays nice with xubuntu? [08:00] cursory internet search suggests Audacious, QMMP or Sayonara [08:00] gmusicbrowser is no longer a default music player in Xubuntu 18.04 [08:01] oh, well, I upgraded to 18.04 right now [08:01] and that's all I have [08:01] what's the default? [08:01] it's kept for you because you had it installed [08:01] yeah, Xubuntu only uses Parole now [08:01] I'm happy to remove it :D [08:01] oh [08:01] parole is a media player...seems more geared towards video? [08:02] I had parole on 16.04 as well, had never installed it (never used it either :D) [08:02] to clarify what Spass said, xubuntu doesn't have a dedicated media *manager* any more [08:02] parole can play audio for sure, but if you have a music library, it likely won't be enough for you [08:02] Rhythmbox works fine on my Xubuntu, and it integrates with the panel sound menu [08:03] --> https://xubuntu.org/news/small-and-noisy/ [08:03] isn't it a bit finicky with large music libraries? [08:03] so basically this: https://xubuntu.org/news/tag/my-media-manager/ [08:03] Babloyi, please read what i said... [08:03] Rhythmbox [08:03] I was referring to what Spass suggested [08:04] aha, sure. [08:04] but check the last link i posted [08:04] it has some other suggestions... [08:04] alright, thanks :D. The first one you linked was from 2016 :O [08:05] wait...they're all at least 2 years old [08:05] yes, because this change *was* introduced for xubuntu 16.04 [08:05] the content is still mainly accurate [08:05] I don't think Banshee has been updated in like...5 years :D [08:06] ...but it still works? [08:06] I guess :D [08:06] I wish these lists pointed out the bad stuff too [08:06] isn't all good and bad stuff subjective? [08:07] except "there's a bug that stops this software from working completely"? [08:07] well, some players are heavier than others, some are more lightweight. Some have greater features, some have fewer. Some have stuff I don't need, some don't [08:07] yes indeed [08:07] "stuff *i* need" [08:08] :D [08:08] ignore that last point, then [08:08] and some people definitely do prefer a lightweight one [08:08] but that likely means it lacks some features they like [08:08] I mean, I wouldn't specifically look for it to mention stuff I need, but if it gives a comparison of features [08:08] like all that radio stuff, online lyric collection, internet related things [08:08] I don't need that [08:09] funny you're talking about music players, because I've just finished my small guide for Polish Xubuntu site like an hour ago... [08:09] https://xubuntu-pl.neocities.org/porady/odtwarzacze-muzyki.html [08:09] but I doubt it will be useful in that case :P [08:10] :D [08:10] now translate it [08:10] it's for ew users, so you probably know everything that's in it [08:11] Babloyi, my final suggestion is to maybe focus on the positives; at least you have this much information at your hand; now go figure and try out yourself what suits best for you [08:11] because you surely do have personal preferences... [08:11] s/ew/new [08:12] blargh [08:12] I'll just go with Audacious, I guess [08:13] sorry for not chewing your food for you! [08:13] (: [08:13] :O [08:13] yuck [08:13] indeed... [08:13] Rhythmbox, Quod Libet, Clementine, Exaile, GNOME Music, Amarok, DeaDBeeF... happy testing :) [08:13] doesn't list Saynara OR Audacious :O [08:14] and Amarok uses KDE, doesn't it? [08:14] Qt. [08:14] hmmmm [08:14] (which is the toolkit used by KDE...) [08:14] I guess because it was the default on kubuntu, I figured it used KDE [08:15] Clementine is also Qt based, doesn't mean you can't use it on Xubuntu, like VLC [08:15] see? Spass gave you more alternatives to pick from and the only thing you do is complain he didn't list everything available? [08:15] clearly we can't win here... [08:15] :O [08:15] I'm not fighting, knome [08:15] I love you dearly [08:15] there's so many of them :) [08:15] me neither, but you're asking for impossible things ;) [08:15] am I truly? [08:16] you are asking us to tell which media manager is best for you, sure it's impossible [08:16] I didn't ask that :O [08:16] I asked what was the best lightweight music player for xubuntu [08:16] mpd ;) [08:16] :D [08:16] but [08:16] "best" [08:16] terminal [08:16] that's subjective [08:16] so there we go... :P [08:17] alright, the most lightweight player for xubuntu that has a GUI :P [08:17] why don't you try a few alternatives? [08:17] gmusicbrowser. [08:17] really? [08:17] kept crashing on me [08:17] * knome shrugs [08:17] afaik.. [08:17] but maybe upgrading to 18.04 will have fixed that [08:18] who knows, i don't even know what kind of crashes you had :) [08:18] but seriously, if i were you, i'd try out a few alternatives [08:18] ok [08:18] and if you want to avoid extra dependencies, avoid those that use Qt [08:19] then you should be mostly fine, but every manager likely pulls in some extra dependencies [08:19] (I'll probably pick one to download and end up sticking with it out of laziness unless it has some major problem :D) [08:19] whether that is acceptable for you or not is left for you to decide.. [08:20] ultimately, i would personally pick any software that worked the best for me regardless of the "lightweightness" [08:20] well, lack of lightweightness is the issue I most often face [08:20] though this does include the consideration that if any software is way too heavy for my system, it'll likely feel sluggish and then i'll just likely not prefer that.. [08:20] like, I have a library with music in the tens of thousands, so stuff that loads slowly is annoying [08:21] gmusicbrowser is good with that kind of stuff [08:21] and then gmusicbrowser has these weird audio rendering issues [08:21] the music crackles :D [08:21] not for me [08:21] which I thought was a problem with my earphones, but it turned out to be with everythin [08:21] maybe you want to try another backend or something [08:22] I just upgraded to 18.04, so who knows, maybe it will work better now [08:28] Babloyi, I think Quod Libet should be on your shortlist to test, uses GTK, lightweight and modular (plugins) [08:28] and under active development [08:28] anyway, bbl [08:35] alright, thanks [09:09] hmmmm....pondering the stuff to remove for a fresh start...is there any use for abiword if I have mousepad and libreoffice writer? [09:10] it seems like a sort of inbetween text editor :D === tsglove2 is now known as tsglove [14:04] Ugh great: An unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade. [14:24] Got that fixed by removing ubuntu toolchain test PPA luckily [14:24] Now my /boot is full and autoremove won't remove anything... === pavlushka_ is now known as pavlushka [17:23] hi can someone update the bot in the #xubuntu-unregistered channel so it points to the correct place toregister nicknames [17:23] please [17:24] https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration should be the correct link [20:15] Finally managed the upgrade, I have no network manager UI anywhere anymore and the fonts look different [20:20] sim642, try adding Status Notifier plugin to the panel and check your font settings in the 'Appearance' [20:21] The panel has both notification area and indicator plugin [20:21] Just as before [20:21] But like, no network settings in settings either [20:21] Also, I know where to change it but I have no idea what it was before [20:22] Was some default font changed? [20:22] "Status Notifier" is a new plugin, you need to add it [20:22] That's even worse than the other two I have [20:23] It just shows gtk-redshift, no dropbox nor sound either [20:23] "Indicators" are not really needed anymore, maybe you need to restart your panel [20:24] not sure about the default font settings, but I think nothing really changed there [20:25] If indicators isn't needed then where should the audio indicator be [20:25] and still, no network manager [20:25] there is a new sound plugin, PulseAudio, you need to add it [20:26] I'll show you the defaults in 1 sec [20:26] So the indicator with media player controls included is now gone? [20:26] I have default font as Sans 10 [20:27] But it immediately stands out different than before upgrading, it's a small thing that you easily notice different [20:28] sim642, https://ibb.co/j9HYbU [20:29] you can control the media player from the new sound plugin [20:29] Oh, they're just not listed there when not running? [20:30] you need to run them once to show up [20:30] Noto Sans 10 looks more like what it was before but hmm, still feels slightly wrong, oh well [20:30] they should stay after that [20:30] Oh ok [20:30] Still, the missing network manager UI is kinda problematic [20:30] I suppose I should have network-manager-gnome that provides nm-applet right? [20:31] network-manager and network-manager-gnome, yes [20:31] I have the list of removed packages here and it doesn't seem like it was removed though [20:31] so I'm confused [20:32] open a terminal windows, and run "nm-applet" [20:32] window [20:32] I don't have it, that's the thing [20:32] But now I really wanna know why [20:32] make sure you have it installed, if yes maybe try to reinstall [20:32] Because I had it before [20:34] apt's history.log says it should've been upgraded [20:35] but it's removed now... [20:36] Because if that package somehow disappeared without a trace, it's probably not the only thing [20:39] this should have been properly logged though [20:39] I found now in apt's term.log that it was removed [20:39] But the new version was never installed [20:39] Although history.log listed it under Upgrade: [20:40] apt-cache still lists the older version like: 1.2.6-0ubuntu0.16.04.4 -1 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status [20:40] Neither that nor the correct version being installed [20:41] Candidate: 1.8.10-2ubuntu1 [20:41] that version is listed? [20:41] I have that too yes, uninstalled [20:42] but I have the old version listed uninstalled too for some reason [20:42] Which probably means something [20:42] maybe because it is still present in the package cache [20:42] and could be installed from there [20:42] just a guess [20:44] Status: deinstall ok config-files [20:45] I feel like I'll need to have a script that double checks every package that apt promised to upgrade [20:45] you could reinstall the meta package xubuntu-core (or xubuntu-desktop), and check what new packages it will pull in [20:45] to check if it's installed [20:46] because right now I'm not sure anything is correct anymore [20:47] hence my suggestion [20:47] Yeah, doing that now [20:48] That's installing 74 new packages now, which is even more worrying [20:49] And that doesn't cover any of the software I've installed on top of the clean system that may be missing in action [20:49] indeed [20:49] I still can't understand how apt would remove a package for upgrading and never install it back [20:50] not really related, but it may be a good idea to check "software-properties-gtk" settings on 'Other Software' tab, maybe some old repos are still enabled there [20:50] well [20:51] Spass, that's all disabled for now as it should be [20:51] there should be an upgrade log, right? [20:51] Well yes, there are two files apt keeps about this: history.log and apt.log [20:51] something else [20:52] /var/log/dist-upgrade/ [20:52] got this? [20:52] I already grepped that, it has no mentions of network-mananger-gnome even [20:53] Besides the apt.log copy also there I think [20:53] maybe hidden inside some .tar.gz? [20:53] Which just lists it as to be upgraded too [20:54] apt-clone_system_state.tar.gz is the only such thing there [20:54] probably not in there [20:54] Yeah [20:55] apt's term.log is the most detailed thing about it, it actually has a trace of the package being removed at first [20:55] my only explanation would be that the upgrade process was interrupted somehow, and the system then booted into a semi upgraded state [20:57] Some error interrupted apt which required me to fix a problem manually but manually continuing dist-upgrade worked fine [20:57] Seems like it somehow forgot a package between the two [21:00] But AFAIK that's not supposed to happen, for the majority of packages it correctly knows it's supposed to continue upgrading them