[04:30] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:03] <EriC^> morning all
[06:36] <ducasse> good morning
[09:55] <lotuspsychje> !info octave
[11:01] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:04] <ducasse> hiya BluesKaj - how are you doing?
[11:08] <BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, doing well here, how about you?
[11:13] <ducasse> all good, thanks, not much happening
[11:14] <BluesKaj> yeah, quiet here too.... still waiting for rain
[11:15] <ducasse> none expected here until wednesday, but i've stopped trusting the forecasts
[11:16] <BluesKaj> our forecasted rain seems to fall elsewhere, not here
[11:17] <ducasse> we keep being promised rain that never arrives
[11:18] <BluesKaj> think my front lawn is ruined
[11:19] <BluesKaj> was away for a week, totally dried out in the heat
[11:19] <BluesKaj> never seen it so hot for so long
[11:20] <BluesKaj> 3 months of near 30 degree weather
[11:21] <ducasse> yeah, it's ridiculous
[11:22] <ducasse> this summer has been intense
[11:25] <BluesKaj> anyway on an audio note. I put my old HK receiver back in service, the Denon is too restrictive and I'm not impressed with the build quality. Think I'm going to sell it
[11:29] <BluesKaj> it has fairly good sound, which is a plus, but the HK is still just as good or better to these old ears
[13:27] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[14:00] <BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
[14:01] <ducasse> BluesKaj: why do you say the denon is restrictive?
[14:02]  * ducasse is curious about the choice of that word
[14:04] <BluesKaj> ducasse, in terms of audio switching, it all goes thru hdmi, so if I want t hear audio from a source then the video switches with it, which makes it restrictive
[14:04] <BluesKaj> i = if
[14:04] <ducasse> aha, i see
[14:05]  * BluesKaj searches for his glasses
[14:07] <BluesKaj> I thought It would fine since the hdmi simplifies the audio, but I realized later that I missed watching video/tv  and listening to a music source simultaneously
[14:08] <lotuspsychje> !info virtualbox
[14:48] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: you alive mate?
[14:58] <pragmaticenigma> guess we're on our own lotuspsychje
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> :p
[14:58] <acheronuk> lotuspsychje: huh?
[14:59] <pragmaticenigma> acheronuk: we're having an issue with a particular member in main #ubuntu ... we've been seeking help for the better part of an hour
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: ah, just wondering if you have any idea if nvidia-driver-390.77 could be pushed to bionic
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: alot of users having problems on 390.48
[15:00] <lotuspsychje> acheronuk: we bypass alot now, forwarding users to ubuntu graphics ppa but..
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[15:05] <acheronuk> lotuspsychje: I pinged 390.77 uploader in #ubuntu-devel
[15:05] <acheronuk> see if I get a reply later
[15:12] <acheronuk> lotuspsychje: apparently 'there is a pending SRU that will bring 390.77 (LP: #1778011).'
[16:08] <lotuspsychje> ah tnx acheronuk
[17:16] <lotuspsychje> hggdh: so weird, we have less users now, spam still going and support is very active now
[17:17] <hggdh> indeed
[17:17] <lotuspsychje> perhaps all waken from vacation
[17:17] <hggdh> heh
[17:17] <lotuspsychje> started sunday afternoon (my time)
[17:18] <hggdh> lotuspsychje: actually, the last hit on a "canary" channel was 06:37 UTC today
[17:18] <lotuspsychje> aha
[17:18] <hggdh> (for the spam)
[17:18] <lotuspsychje> they found a solution?
[17:19] <hggdh> IDK
[17:19] <hggdh> personally, don't think so, but...
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> kk
[17:20] <hggdh> two other channels I am monitoring also had the last spam around 06:something UTC today
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> i was investigating articles on mirai botnet yesterday
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> seems like the spam here looks alike very much
[17:24] <hggdh> might as well be
[17:25] <hggdh> most, if not all, the big channels have gone (or already were) +r, or +q $~a, or -- like #freenode -- +m
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> ok
[17:26] <hggdh> right now I have asked for ops input on taking off +r from #u
[17:27] <lotuspsychje> ok tnx lets c
[17:27] <hggdh> (if it has stopped now, we could allow unregistered in, and move again to +r if needed)
[17:29] <pragmaticenigma> It's freeky to go into #freenode... you only can see the ops replies, not other user's comments
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> yeah think their busy there
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> fixxing the spam thing
[17:29] <pragmaticenigma> hggdh: Kind of like the registered requirement though... been more sane in there
[17:30] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: that's because they went nuclear, and set the channel to +m
[17:31] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: yes, but on the other hand we close the gates to casual users
[17:32] <pragmaticenigma> hggdh: has there ever been though given to the !ops trigger possibly muting the member specified?
[17:32] <lotuspsychje> hey nacc
[17:33] <pragmaticenigma> or is it even possible?
[17:33] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: I am not sure I understand. Can you please expand?
[17:36] <pragmaticenigma> hggdh: The idea is, when the !ops trigger includes a screenname, one of the room bots could set mute on the user for a limited time (say 10-30 minutes). Alievating the issue of a problem user until an operator can respond. If it were me, it would only allow a user to invoke it once in a 24 hour period.  meaning, if I called it this morning on someone, that person gets a timeout, but while I can call !ops
[17:36] <pragmaticenigma> again, I couldn't mute anyone for 24 hours
[17:37] <hggdh> the false-positive rate is rather big for that, I think
[17:37] <pragmaticenigma> hggdh: which part though?
[17:37] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: what if a troll would activate that mute?
[17:37] <hggdh> and I am pretty sure it would be abused very fast with people muting others for fun and profit
[17:38] <pragmaticenigma> hggdh: that's the part with a user can only trigger the mute on someone once per 24 hours
[17:38] <pragmaticenigma> s/someone/anyone/
[17:39] <lotuspsychje> if 10 trolls join and mute lol
[17:39] <lotuspsychje> dont think this is gonna work pragmaticenigma
[17:40] <pragmaticenigma> It can, it need more thought... but I don't think you're seeing the full picture
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> even if it was a voting system, it could be abused
[17:40] <pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: if you were to call !ops on me... you'd get one shot to do it, and that would mean you couldn't mute anyone else with !ops command for a certain amount of time (I'm saying 24 hours for reference)
[17:41] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: indeed. But -- if no ops come soon, lotusp would still be muted for <whatever> minutes
[17:42] <pragmaticenigma> as far as ganging up, that would still need to be addressed. but I wouldn't make it cumulative... if two people call !ops on one person, only the first is taken... anyone else calling !ops on that person won't have any effect
[17:42] <JimBuntu> more helpful only while the room is +R... so the bot that will abuse this has to keep cycling through registered accounts, but I could forsee the entire channel getting muted pretty quick
[17:42] <hggdh> the only chance (on a rather shallow look) I would see is checks and balances: you call it wrong, YOU get banned for <n> (days|hours|minutes)
[17:43] <pragmaticenigma> I wouldn't tie things to user name... it'd have to be based on connection
[17:43] <JimBuntu> slightly better if 3+ people have to call ops on the same username before anything takes effect, less abuse that way... but only reduced by a factor of 3(+)
[17:43] <lotuspsychje> human chat is very hard to catch
[17:43] <lotuspsychje> because its always a thin red line
[17:43] <pragmaticenigma> This is meant for the humans lotuspsychje ... not the spammers
[17:43] <lotuspsychje> i know what you mean pragmaticenigma
[17:44] <hggdh> and how does one differentiate between humans and bots?
[17:44] <lotuspsychje> i mean there are smart trolls too, doing half support, harder to catch
[17:44] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: please do not get it wrong: if this idea has merit, it has to survive questioning
[17:44] <pragmaticenigma> it doesn't... again, this is why a single user could only trigger the mute feature once in a given time frame
[17:44] <JimBuntu> Turing test? lol
[17:44] <lotuspsychje> i think we always will need human ops to interfere on whats happening
[17:44] <pragmaticenigma> I'm not going to waste my one chance to mute a bot
[17:45] <JimBuntu> Once per 24 hours, op that responds can reset your 24 mark if they found you did the right thing.
[17:46] <pragmaticenigma> the delay of mute for 10-30 gives an op a chance to respond... it also means the culprit can't go off on a tangent and flood the room (or rage quit)
[17:46] <pragmaticenigma> I'm offering a simple idea... you guys are over complicating it
[17:47] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: no, not really. We are trying to find out ways this could be mis-used/abused. Something like that *is* potentially dangerous
[17:48] <hggdh> so, if it survives a bunck of skeptics, then it has more chances
[17:48] <hggdh> (and my professional life is, pretty much, find ways to break things)
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> the flood system is pretty effective
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> if i was an op, i would tighten flood more agressive
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> the moment someone speaks to quicly in lines==>mute for a while
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> like that youmight right now
[17:57] <lotuspsychje> can you ban him hggdh :p
[17:57] <pragmaticenigma> hggdh: so is mine as a software dev
[17:57] <nacc> pragmaticenigma: requsted in #ubuntu-ops
[17:57] <pragmaticenigma> I get the figure out the misuse case... just trying to get traction on the idea firt
[17:57] <nacc> i'd rather not overload hggdh with direct requests
[17:58] <pragmaticenigma> totally get it
[17:58] <pragmaticenigma> thanks for floating it
[17:58] <hggdh> nacc: thank you :-)
[17:58] <nacc> hggdh: heh, yw
[17:59] <hggdh> but it has already been taken care of
[17:59] <nacc> yep
[18:05] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: just explaining: we do not like users (not involved with a current issue) idling in -ops. Reason is it makes the dialog easier
[18:05] <hggdh> anyways, the channel is logged for future reference
[18:06] <pragmaticenigma> no that's fine
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> wpa usn is in updates now
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> update your systems :p
[18:58] <lotuspsychje> https://usn.ubuntu.com/3745-1/
[19:27] <pauljw> hi everyone
[22:21] <tomreyn> talking of ugly terms (like those on intel's latest microcode updates): https://videocardz.com/76645/nvidias-new-non-disclosure-agreement-leaked  (this is a month old or two, but still relevant)
[23:57] <Bashing-om> And UWN https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue541 is on the streets :)