 welkam back bot
 https://twitter.com/tsimonquigley2/status/1036075329754984448?s=19
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 So now the person directly responsible of hijacking the qt packaging and maintaining it in repositories where other kubuntu developers don't have access is now part of the council. Very wise vote. Things get better and better here :)
 @Santa, Can you elaborate? I dont Know that story
 @tomaz ububtu Qt branches are maintained in the debian git repositories (where nobody but Simon has access) he is perfectly aware of that and our work in the last few months have been blocked because we didn't have a newer Qt and we don't have access to the git repositories either
 s/ububtu/ubuntu/
[12:40] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
 So...
 Let's see if I get removed from kubuntu.org as I requested
 The fact that I'm listed there with a KDE logo might trick someone into thinking that I or KDE approves a distribution with packages older than debian's
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[14:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2453: SUCCESS in 1 min 20 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2453/
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[16:54] <BluesKaj> is there a ppa for the new vlc 3.0.4 version ?
 @BluesKaj, not in an offical sense IIR. the 'stable' ppa doesn't seem to update now
 A couple of your statements are just factually incorrect, Santa.
 First off, Mirv had maintained Qt in Alioth/Salsa a while before I came along. This isn't anything new.
 Secondly, the reason why Qt was blocked was because of Proposed Migration taking a while, not because of me.
 @tsimonq2, This doesn't make incorrect what I say
 Also, if you wanted to contribute, there is a big green Fork button on Salsa where you can send changes, and then submit an MP.
 Neon frequently submits changes and they don't have commit access.
 But as a rule, we only give commit access to people who contribute.
 Qt is special because it's shared by many projects.
 KDE is one umbrella. One team.
 @Santa, How?
 @tsimonq2, You got like 3 weeks uploading packages to debian, then  syncing them manually. No automation and no teamwork.
 @Santa, I did work with the people who actually contribute on the Debian Qt Team
 I became a Debian Maintainer and I intend on working with people who are Debian Developers...
 And that's why it's taking so long
 Not really.
 We sync packages from Debian because long term that's easier to maintain.
 Because that people you are working with aren't automating Qt are they?
 We don't need automation. If we did, it should have unit tests...
 @tsimonq2, No, it's not, you just have to see what we are doing with frameworks, plasma and applications and it doesn't take so long
 Precisely because we don't get trough all debian's hindering
 @Santa, So why don't you have this discussion with the Debian Qt Team so we can adopt some automation?
 I would be happy if you did.
 You probably remember the channel and the mailing list.
 because I already did Simon
 I want to collaborate; you want proprietary automation.
 I'm starting to think the only reason you dislike Debian is because you were kicked out.
 Like the debian kde automation whose source code is not completely available
 @tsimonq2, And you are wrong
 @Santa, It's probably just maxy's shell history. :P
 @Santa, So you like Debian?
 no
 Where's your mailing list thread about automation?
 Can I see it?
 I'd like to contribute to the discussion.
 I have an IRC log
 How old is this IRC log?
 old
 So it's not recent... Was this before or after you were kicked out?
 and anyway, LOL at "propietary automation" non-sense
 Proprietary in the sense of, only Kubuntu's automation.
 @tsimonq2, yes, and it's also much before you appeared here
 The code is open, but only we know how to use it.
 @Santa, Probably.
 @tsimonq2, it's documented and you can adapt it to debian, too bad you don't have the knowledge or experience to do it
 Children please stop.
 I'm still waiting for the unit tests which were going to save everybodies lives
 I like Debian, I do most of the Qt work in Ubuntu (Dmitry also helps out, and I'm grateful for that) and some of it in Debian, and as long as that stands how it is, we're maintaining our packaging in Salsa and we're taking a Debian-first approach with Qt. Do what you wish with the KDE stack, consulting the uploading Kubuntu Developer of course.
 allright, from now on the Kubuntu Council have five members for me
 The Kubuntu Council is one body.
 No, I don't recognize someone who hijacked the Qt packaging and is now actively harming kubuntu
 So far you are the only person who has objected to keeping Qt in Salsa. I can understand keeping KDE in Ubuntu packaging, but not Qt.
 "Qt is mine"
 If anything, you're the one actively harming Kubuntu. I have good relationships with people whose projects you have been kicked out of. I intend on continuing to collaborate with these bright individuals and not maintain a sense of superiority here.
 @Santa, Qt is ours, Debian's and Ubuntu's.
 The way it should be.
 You're welcome to contribute.
 Why ubuntu's members don't have access then?
 Stop!
 @Santa, Debian's don't either. It's all about who has the technical merit.
 And you don't
 Who has commit access?
 I do.
 Both @tsimonq2 and Santa
 Do you honestly think you are the only one who is able to package Qt here Simon?
 If you're going to continue to make a deal out of this Santa, please leave. You know where Salsa is to submit fixes.
 Really? Just resign for a year and let's see if we handle Qt better than you or not
 The only way I will resign is if it is forced. I care too much about Ubuntu to do that.
 So much that you block other people way more experienced than you. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to brag about your "technical merits".
 One thing is having the permissions and another one the technical skills, and clearly you don't, you just have to see the mess you made with Qt which we are still fixing btw
 I'm done with this argument.
 same here
 I can see some merit in both positions. Projects with a stake in Qt need more involvement and rights. Just have to figure out how to do this.
 One possible way is applying for MOTU and start to upload Qt ourselves given the current maintainer doesn't want to cooperate, as we can see.
 We could start with a Qt backport to bionic to test the waters.
 @Santa, Are you aware that I'm on the DMB?
 Lets see how we can do that backport. Personal feelings and opinions are one thing, but the test of principal is how things goes in practice.
 Ah, so you ar saying that you are going to cotinue to abuse your position, fantastic, nothing like 16 year old kid without experience bossing you areound
 * around
 @acheronuk, To be honest I think you will have to get ready to work only with Simon. Because at this rate, I think you are going to run out of developers.
 Because Clive didn't complain at all about Qt right? It's just "my problemç"
 * problem
 He complained because he was running KCI Unstable before it was rebuilt for the Qt transition which had just landed.
 Since then we have moved to a dedicated channel.
 Because it shouldn't be a hostile takeover by a single Kubuntu Ninja, it should be done neutrally as an Ubuntu group.
 But if you're going to leave, I'm not stopping you, Santa.
 You have yet to tell me about the "mess" in our dedicated group.
 Which further proves you just want the control.
 Allright, just get ready to work only with him @acheronuk because I honestly don't know for how long I'm going to tolerate this. He will be, of course, MOTU, core dev he will be in a zillion of councils at the same time, but I'm afaraid soon enough he will be the only person you are going to work with.
 @tsimonq2, No Simon, the one who wants the control is the person who hijacked the Qt packaging, and that's you.
 @Santa, ...with the full support of Timo? I don't call that a hijack, I call it a graceful handover.
 You quickly filled a gap and then you locked the Qt packaging down so you are the only one who has access
 Do you have access to the kubuntu git repositories? yes
 Dude, it's had the same ACLs from before and after I took over.
 Ask Timo, the Ubuntu packaging has always been in Salsa.
 do other kubuntu developers have that same access to Qt? NO
 You just have a bone to pick with me.
 It's the same as it's always been.
 why don't you change then?
 Because there is no good reason to.
 hahaha
 oh god
 Qt isn't Kubuntu's anymore, since Lubuntu switched to LXQt. It's Ubuntu's.
 great, why ubuntu's members don't have access?
 mitya57 has access.
 and kubuntu developers doesn't
 Our policy is: work well with us, contribute your patches upstream, and eventually you get your commit access.
 It shouldn't be an automatic right of being a Kubuntu Developer.
 and qt affects us and very much
 It affects Lubuntu too.
 @tsimonq2, which is an outright hostile action against kubuntu
 and people voted you for the *kubuntu* council. LOL
 I have better things to do than sit here and bicker with you Santa.
 Great, goodbye Simon, and keep up that good "work" and blocking of everyone else ❤️
 Hah.
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