 my life Lubuntu ! ❤️
 @tsimonq2 [wxl: Also, will you kill me if I try and take a shot at reworking our slideshow? …], What exactly do you want screen shots of?
 @TheWendyPower [What exactly do you want screen shots of?], I'll get you a list of applications and some dimensions; just standard usage of the applications.
 @tsimonq2 [I'll get you a list of applications and some dimensions; just standard usage of …], Awesome!
[03:53] <wxl> whoa quiet around these parts
 *yawn* I'm tired and back to my usual schedule of little sleep on weekdays, sleep 12 to 16 hours on weekends
[03:54] <wxl> ehehehehe
 I'm about to sleep, ish.
 6 AM wakeup call :(
[03:56] <wxl> yuck
[03:56] <wxl> working on getting trojita in a repo
 Cool
 Are you running it through an evil and pedantic Lintian, just like your sponsors? :P
[03:58] <wxl> well i haven't even got close to that far
[03:58] <wxl> basically i've dh_make'd and gone through a lot of control but it's not done
[03:58] <wxl> and that's more or less it
 Just remember
 Fwd from ginggs: Policy is your friend. Trust the Policy. Love the Policy. Obey the Policy.
 https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
[04:00] <wxl> yes dear i know
 XD
[04:35] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rTROJITAb2682c11e32f: Initial commit.] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rTROJITAb2682c11e32f
[04:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rTROJITA832baa9e6347: .md → .remarkup for better rendering] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rTROJITA832baa9e6347
[04:56] <wxl> @tsimonq2: jeez wow i got double thanked in the calamres release notes XD https://calamares.io/calamares-3.2.2-is-out/
 @tsimonq2 wxl: clive did trojita packaging in kubuntu git repos
 is it not also 2 years since it had a .7 release?
[05:46] <wxl> @acheronuk: oh hah, i'll take a look at that
[05:54] <acheronuk> wxl: actually, looking at it now, you would be better going from scratch. it builds ok in KCI, but the packaging would need so much fixing for anywhere real that I'd just shut your eyes and not look at it!
[05:56] <wxl> @acheronuk: well it might be good to take some hints from it
[05:59] <wxl> @acheronuk: ummmmm is it not at kci.pangea.pub?
[05:59] <acheronuk> https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_trojita/
[06:00] <wxl> oh not yet for cosmic?
[06:00] <wxl> oh no there it is :)
[06:13] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rTROJITAc88defcfcb54: Kubuntu has Trojita packaging, too…] wxl (Walter Lapchynski) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rTROJITAc88defcfcb54
 I like a lot featherPad, it's a big improvement from leafpad because mainly of the sintax highlighting. However, my changes in preferences are not saved. For example, "always show line numbers", "do not show toolbar", "hide search bar by default". Anyone havig the same problem?
[16:02] <wxl> @HMollerCl can't seem to reproduce. What version of featherpad you on? (also, i agree; way better)
 featherpad 0.9.0
 One question, I'm using a daily of august 25. Should I install a new one from scratch or the updatyes should maintain me updated?
[16:06] <wxl> well i'm on an older one too so hahhaahhai
[16:06] <wxl> we should probably both update
[16:06] <wxl> i'll swing back around on this in about 30 minutes. i gotta run a couple errands
[16:07] <wxl> to be clear a dist-upgrade should do the trick
[16:07] <wxl> however, to be perfectly sure there's nothing else affecting things, we should update the iso
 in daily also?
 I've only done $sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
[16:35] <wxl> @HMollerCl the dist-upgrade will also remove things that are no longer requried. so if say featherpad dropped a dependency on a particular library, that library would be removed
 $sudo apt dist-upgrade says there is nothing new
 @wxl [<wxl> @HMollerCl the dist-upgrade will also remove things that are no longer req …], same as $sudo apt autoremove
 ??
[16:36] <wxl> no
[16:37] <wxl> when you purge, it doesn't remove depends. autoremove takes care of that
[16:42] <wxl> fyi purge = remove + removal of config files
 I don't get the difference between that and  "...The dist-upgrade will also remove things that are no longer requried. so if say featherpad dropped a dependency on a particular library, that library would be removed"
[16:44] <wxl> if you do `apt-cache show featherpad | grep Depends` you'll find that one of the things it requires is libqt5svg5
[16:44] <wxl> so let's imagine you purge featherpad
[16:44] <wxl> well, that doesn't get rid of libqt5svg5
[16:45] <wxl> autoremove will get rid of it, though, assuming no other package depends upon it
[16:45] <wxl> on the other hand, let's say that from one version to the next, featherpad drops the dependency on libqt5svg5.. then a dist-upgrade would remove libqt5svg5 (again assuming no other package depended on it) while an upgrade would leave it alone
[16:48] <wxl> ewwwwwww @tsimonq2 why the heck is our default widget style for qt windows all of a sudden? i almost vomited
[16:49] <wxl> so tested on new daily (featherpad 0.9.0-1), preferences stick, @HMollerCl
 @wxl [<wxl> ewwwwwww @tsimonq2 why the heck is our default widget style for qt windows …], Bah what?
[16:52] <wxl> @tsimonq2: yeah don't ask me how it suddenly became something different.. unless you deleted a /etc/xdg/lxqt/lxqt.conf from system settings or an upstream change flipped the default
[16:57] <wxl> well lxqt.conf is there
 @wxl [<wxl> on the other hand, let's say that from one version to the next, featherpad …], if I understando correctly, autoremove will delete unused dependecies from deleted/purge programs. And dist-upgrade from upgraded programs.
[16:57] <wxl> oh
[16:57] <wxl> hahahha
[16:57] <wxl> style=Breeze
[16:57] <wxl> which is apparently not an option
[16:58] <wxl> so it defaults to windows
[16:58] <wxl> hahahahahahahah
[16:58] <wxl> @HMollerCl yes but dist-upgrade doesn't necessarily remove programs. it can.
 @wxl [<wxl> @HMollerCl yes but dist-upgrade doesn't necessarily remove programs. it ca …], but, upgrading a program might change dependencies, and the unused will be deleted
[16:59] <wxl> right
 I always thought dist-upgrade was to change from x.04 to x.10 or x.10 to x+1.04
[17:00] <wxl> nope
[17:00] <wxl> but that's better than the common belief, which is that dist-upgrade is how you change from one version of *buntu to another
[17:01] <tsimonq2> wxl: ohai
[17:02] <tsimonq2> How's Featherpad?
 so I always wonder why apt update && apt upgrade might be different than the upgrade offered in the DE. Now I know why
[17:02] <wxl> @tsimonq2: in relation to @HMollerCl's concerns above? fine
[17:02] <tsimonq2> wxl: Qool.
[17:02] <wxl> XD
[17:02] <wxl> @tsimonq2: are we supposed to have Breeze as an option?
[17:03] <tsimonq2> wxl: Yeah, it should be the default.
[17:03] <wxl> @tsimonq2: it's not even listed as an option
 @wxl [<wxl> so tested on new daily (featherpad 0.9.0-1), preferences stick, @HMollerCl], Did upgrade, update and dist-upgrade and featherpad is still in 0.9.0. w/o changes sticking. Will check when it update somehow
[17:03] <tsimonq2> Just note that I have to skidaddle at 8 after the hour (I have my laptop at lunch).
[17:03] <tsimonq2> Huh, where are you looking?
[17:03] <tsimonq2> Because it should Just Be There.
[17:04] <wxl> @tsimonq2: lxqt-config-whatever
[17:04] <tsimonq2> Otherwise check the metapackage update I did last night and see if that removed anything important.
[17:04] <tsimonq2> (Or just diff the manifests XD)
[17:05] <wxl> to be fair this is yesterday's daily
[17:05] <tsimonq2> hm
[17:05] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[17:05] <wxl> where would the breeze stuff be?
[17:05] <tsimonq2> Recheck it then, maybe my update *fixed* it.
[17:05] <tsimonq2> uhhh, find a package named "breeze" XD
[17:06] <tsimonq2> Otherwise it's just the Qt theme for Breeze.
[17:06] <tsimonq2> I don't know specifics and I don't quite have the time to find them out right now.
[17:06] <wxl> yeah that's it
[17:06] <wxl> and it's not installed
[17:07] <tsimonq2> I'll be going to class shortly until 3 my time; if you can figure it out, please feel free to JFD a seed update then a metapackage update (plus dch -r so I can sponsor) in the repos and ping me.
[17:07] <tsimonq2> But yeah, should be an easy fix.
[17:07] <tsimonq2> Anyway, ttfn folks.
 the BB10 should be removed, they break everiything.
 Yeah, wxl also look into removing that binary package.
 I rearranged the styles binary into a metapackage.
 strange thing is happening. Telegram doesn't work if I choce instead of Breez GTK2
 and if I change when it is open, telegram crashes
 and when I try to open it says:
 telegram-desktop:3450): GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: 14:36:18.795: g_dbus_proxy_new: assertion 'G_IS_DBUS_CONNECTION (connection)' failed
 If it happens with other programs, maybe gtk2 should also be removed
[18:44] <wxl> @HMollerCl what do you mean BB10?
[18:46] <wxl> @HMollerCl also are you saying the GTK2 Breeze theme causes problems with Telegram? If so, ugh. GTK* sucks. That SAME EXACT ERROR MESSAGE happens with nearly every single GTK app, regardless of whether or not it's functional or not
 @wxl [<wxl> @HMollerCl what do you mean BB10?], Instead of breeze you can selecy bb10 theme
[19:05] <wxl> @HMollerCl OH that thing. that's old.  we fixed that already
[19:06] <wxl> (it's not an option in the daily)
 @wxl [<wxl> @HMollerCl OH that thing. that's old.  we fixed that already], No we didn't
[19:09] <wxl> @tsimonq2: no? i don't see it as an option in the daily
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: no? i don't see it as an option in the daily], Oh?
 Did I?
[19:12] <wxl> @tsimonq2: now i don't know if this is intentional but it appears that "set gtk themes" is NOT set by default (i think we should) and the default theme for both is adwaita
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: now i don't know if this is intentional but it appears that "se …], I think it shoudl be Arc
[19:25] <wxl> i agree @HMollerCl. you too @tsimonq2 ?
 I prefer arc-darker, but arc is more consistent with breeze
[19:27] <wxl> right.
[19:27] <wxl> maybe we should defer to the art folks. @VikingRedwolf @TheWendyPower have an opinion?
 Arc is the standard one. Both are included. We can't force the totally dark theme as standard because many people don't like to work with those colours.
 Normal Arc has a nice combination of dark bars and titlebars with white content.
[19:30] <wxl> @VikingRedwolf i'm not asking about light/dark
[19:30] <wxl> i'm asking about (A) should we make the default to override GTK themes and (B) should the default theme be Arc?
 😐
 Poll?
[19:31] <wxl> nope
 One thing I like from Arc is that in firefox is the theme when you remove the title.
[19:31] <wxl> asking for your carefully trained eye to decide for us :)
 *title bar
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://telegram.lubuntu.me/KNZx1e3y/file_4097.png
 @VikingRedwolf [Arc is the standard one. Both are included. We can't force the totally dark them …], But Breeze is dark. Shouldn't it be the standard?
[19:39] <wxl> breeze is dark.. ?
[19:39] <wxl> you mean the title bar
 (Photo, 927x647) https://i.imgur.com/zYDKR9F.jpg pcmanfm-qt breeze
 (Photo, 925x646) https://i.imgur.com/znX7YSK.jpg pcmanfm-qt plastique
 I mean that
 My two favorite widely used themes are Arc and Breese dark. Like @HMollerCl pointed out, reading text can be an issue.
 @tsimonq2 I'm starting to understand QMl a little bit. What do you want me to do with that?
 @TheWendyPower [@tsimonq2 I'm starting to understand QMl a little bit. What do you want me to do …], Adjust the SDDM greeter we have to not hide the shutdown buttons.
 I put information above, if you can't find it I can give it to you again.
 @HMollerCl [<reply to image>], That's too dark
 Also, the new theme for Lubuntu was already approved by the Dev team
 (Document) https://telegram.lubuntu.me/aTEq1XDX/file_4100.mp4
 i like it.
 LOL
 (Document) https://telegram.lubuntu.me/nk8DFLXT/file_4101.mp4
 hahahaha
 @tsimonq2 [I put information above, if you can't find it I can give it to you again.], Found it.
 😳😍😜
 @VikingRedwolf [Also, the new theme for Lubuntu was already approved by the Dev team], And which is it?
 @tsimonq2 which is our new theme? 😉
 Normal Arc
[20:50] <wxl> @tsimonq2: with GTK override by default?
[20:50] <tsimonq2> wxl: Oh, I don't think we set GTK settings by default.
[20:51] <wxl> i think we should
[20:51] <tsimonq2> Should be easy, I can figure that out.
[20:51] <tsimonq2> Sec.
[20:51] <wxl> @tsimonq2: you at home already?
[20:51] <tsimonq2> Yep.
[20:52] <wxl> ah cool
 My understanding is that Arc is window "decoring", but color scheme is different from that. Or not? I set arc in openbox and breeze or plastique in "Qt style"
[21:09] <wxl> see lxqt-config-appearance .. it's all in one thing
 @wxl [<wxl> see lxqt-config-appearance .. it's all in one thing], I cannot change Qt windows decoration there, only GTK with GTK override
[21:10] <wxl> the top most setting
[21:10] <wxl> above the GTK stuff
 Qt Style
[21:11] <wxl> yes, that
 it doesn't change the maximize, minimize, close button
 y do that with obconf-qt
[21:12] <wxl> oic
[21:12]  * wxl didn't read "windows decoration"
 in obconf-qt the default is Lubuntu-Arc, thus GTK override should be Arc(ish), IMHO
 But in color scheme, breeze is to dark
[21:14] <wxl> and moreso, we should force the overrride
 @wxl [<wxl> and moreso, we should force the overrride], agree
[21:15] <wxl> what about the window decoration?
[21:15] <tsimonq2> First, I'm continuing my Debian Developer process by responding to an email, but I'll look at it afterwards.
 I like Arc(ish)
[21:15] <wxl> ok
[21:16] <wxl> yeah breeze is still not installed on the current daily
[21:16] <wxl> so that's #1 thing to fix
[21:17] <wxl> at least if we want to make that the default Qt Style
[21:18] <wxl> it looks to me that "Lubuntu Arc" is the default theme for Openbox
 My only problem with arc is that title bar doesn't have borders, so if you put two title bars together you don't see the separation.
 @wxl [<wxl> it looks to me that "Lubuntu Arc" is the default theme for Openbox], yes
[21:19] <wxl> oh hm
[21:19] <wxl> that's an interesting quirk
 I did a quick test and arc is the one that has the best similarties between openbox and title-bar-less gtk
[21:20] <wxl> i think it would be nice if we could get thicker borders on windows, too
[21:20] <wxl> i wish that were something you could change within obconf-qt itself
[21:24]  * wxl thinks we should add the shade/on all desktops icons by default
 @HMollerCl [My only problem with arc is that title bar doesn't have borders, so if you put t …], breeze-ob doesn't have that problem because only the active window has dark title bar, the unactive(s) have light title bar
 Same problem has nightmare
 @wxl [<wxl> yeah breeze is still not installed on the current daily], which is the defaukt in current daily?
[21:59] <wxl> @HMollerCl by config file, Breeze. but since it's not installed, it defaults to Windows WHICH IS EXTREMELY GROSS
 @wxl [<wxl> @HMollerCl by config file, Breeze. but since it's not installed, it defaul …], agree, fusion or plastique are better for light theme
[22:03] <wxl> over Breeze?
 @wxl [<wxl> over Breeze?], Breeze is dark
 @HMollerCl [<reply to image>], Breeze
[22:06] <wxl> and to be clear here i'm talking about the "Qt theme" and not the window decoration
[22:07] <wxl> if we did Fusion by default then problem solved
 Or plastique or clearlooks
[22:09] <wxl> neither of those are installed by default
 aa, ok (I don't know how it haev it then)
 but fusion is ok
[22:17] <wxl> hm it seems to be fusion looks better than breeze
[22:18] <wxl> breeze is darker
 agree, but @tsimonq2 appears to be a breeze fan
 and I would remove the Qt Theme "gtk2", it breaks things
[22:22] <wxl> it's not there
 @HMollerCl [aa, ok (I don't know how it haev it then)], mm
 good then
[22:23] <wxl> it's an image you have had laying around and tweaked here and there, so
 so: Qt Theme Fusion GTK override Ark-Darker.
 Ark-darker: dark title bar, light windows
 ark: light title bar, light window
 ark dark: dark title-bar, dark window
 *arc
 This should be the overrides depending on the window decoration and qt theme chosen.
[22:27] <wxl> @tsimonq2: note here the need for a better border on the window manager as well as some weird looking icons for pcmanfm. this is also my recommendation for the default https://share.riseup.net/#X6pYzgr4zptuxmTDaAqMjw
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: note here the need for a better border on the window manager as …], I would change arc for arc-darker in gtk override
 (Photo, 950x605) https://i.imgur.com/RjzhkMa.jpg arc
 (Photo, 950x605) https://i.imgur.com/7Dkhw3j.jpg arc-darker
 That's the one 😉
 Dark title bars and panels
[23:07] <wxl> ah yes
[23:08] <wxl> boss says so and so it will be