[00:58] <cim209> anyone getting issues of software updater disappearing? or when you open it up, it fails to load?
[01:02] <cim209> here's the pastebin https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/xqsZZ5WydW/
[06:15] <stevenm> is there any issues with indicator icons being too big/oversized so that their top/bottom bits get cut off?
[06:15] <stevenm> https://i.snag.gy/3S5V0I.jpg
[06:16] <stevenm> e.g. if the program (in this case the nextcloud client) is is proving an image file larger than the area,... is the indicator applet meant to size it down - or is the thing that's trying to use the applet meant to do that?!  is this is a bug with the indicator applet basically or the thing using it?
[16:43] <stevenm> hey so I've got a new laptop here which has a stupidly big resolution of 3200x1800
[16:43] <stevenm> so some in-built thing must realise this because it doubles the size of all the programs showing
[16:44] <stevenm> some programs don't like this so look like big windows with tiny objects/text in them - but whatever i can live with that
[16:44] <stevenm> i'm not sure what the technical term for this process is though
[16:44] <stevenm> but what I have realised - is when i connect 2 x 1080p monitors (it's a thunderbolt 3 port that supports 2 monitors) - all the apps stay *double* sized - on the external monitors
[16:44] <vkareh> stevenm: it's HiDPI, so this is GTK scaling
[16:45] <stevenm> which looks crazy
[16:45] <stevenm> ok so is there a way to say don't scale on the external monitors when a window is dragged over or opens on them?
[16:45] <vkareh> stevenm: so, your monitors are _not_ HiDPI, but your laptop is. Scaling only works on the entire display, not on a per-monitor basis
[16:46] <stevenm> sigh
[16:46] <vkareh> stevenm: your options are: disable HiDPI when you connect the monitors, or use xrandr to scale the monitors down
[16:46] <stevenm> right so when my boss is opposite me with his stupid surface book pro 2 and windows 10 - and i see it change the scale of the windows as he moves stuff around...
[16:46] <stevenm> ... basically that's not doable in linux land yet?
[16:47] <vkareh> stevenm: correct
[16:47] <stevenm> so essentially make my laptop use 1600x900 (half the res) and disable hidpi and everything on all monitors will look normal?
[16:47] <vkareh> stevenm: I have a HiDPI laptop and a single monitor attached to it, using xrandr to down-scale the monitor works for me - that way I get a HiDPI laptop display, and a normal monitor
[16:48] <vkareh> stevenm: yes, that's option 1
[16:48] <stevenm> ok confused you just said you couldn't do it on a per monitor basis
[16:48] <vkareh> stevenm: not from the GTK scaling itself, no - but you can trick the monitor into scaling itself down directly on X11
[16:49] <vkareh> I don't know if it will work on two monitors, though...
[16:49] <stevenm> down scale the external monitor?
[16:49] <vkareh> it should, but you would have issues with the position
[16:49] <vkareh> yep
[16:49] <stevenm> but it doesn't need down scaling - it's already at the right res of 1080p
[16:49] <stevenm> just what is showing on it is double sized
[16:49] <stevenm> i feel like i'm missing something here
[16:50] <vkareh> stevenm: do something like `xrandr --output HDMI1 --scale 2x2` in your terminal (change the HDMI1 part with whatever device name your monitor is) and it will scale just that monitor
[16:51] <vkareh> the problem is that when you do that, the position of the monitor gets all messed up, so you would need to do something like `xrandr --output eDP1 --pos 3840x1080` or something like that to get your laptop monitor to be in the "right" position
[16:52] <stevenm> ok so that looks confusing
[16:52] <vkareh> stevenm: really, it's a pain, unfortunately :/
[16:52] <stevenm> one monitor looks right now - and the other looks like it shows a section of the first at bad scaling
[16:52] <vkareh> most people end up just lowering the laptop resolution to 1600x900 and be done with it :/
[16:52] <stevenm> original output from xrandr... https://pastebin.com/raw/Mvhszzf6
[16:53] <vkareh> stevenm: yeah, now try the same command but on the other monitor
[16:53] <stevenm> so i ran... xrandr --output DP-2-1 --scale 2x2
[16:53] <stevenm> but if i run... xrandr --output DP-1-3 --scale 2x2
[16:53] <stevenm> xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 8192x8192 (desired size 8960x2160)
[16:53] <vkareh> oh wow, okay that's unexpected
[16:54] <stevenm> i could try other ports though - basically this laptop has a thunderbolt 3 40gbps connection to a dell dock
[16:54] <vkareh> sorry I've never done two monitors at once, I'm wondering if it has to do with the position (notice how i'ts 5120x0 on DP-1-3, maybe it thinks it's off bounds or something
[16:54] <stevenm> and the dock has like 1 hdmi, 2 dp's (one mini one not) and 1 hdmi
[16:55] <stevenm> oh and a vga
[16:55] <stevenm> lol
[16:55] <vkareh> nice
[16:55] <vkareh> that vga sounds kinda useless there! ;)
[16:55] <vkareh> I guess for office projectors :P
[16:55] <stevenm> yeah but i'm using it - it's what DP-1-3 is
[16:55] <vkareh> hah, crazy okay
[16:55] <stevenm> tbh the monitor does hdmi too - but i cba find a cable yet
[16:56] <stevenm> i will when i can
[16:56] <stevenm> so what does this option do?  does it compress a 3200x1800 image into the space of a 1600x900 ?
[16:57] <vkareh> ah, yeah my external is on HDMI, works fine with this script: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/R9RPBmqyPD/
[16:57] <vkareh> stevenm: yeah, pretty much
[16:57] <stevenm> and that is meant to look ok?
[16:57] <vkareh> that script works for a single monitor on top of the laptop
[16:58] <vkareh> stevenm: not really, if you compare before/after, the down-scaled monitor will look a bit off - different monitors look different, based on its tolerance (and yours, really). I'd say try it and see if it looks bad for you
[16:59] <vkareh> stevenm: for me, my external looks slightly less crisp than if it were just all non-HiDPI, but it's minor enough that having the HiDPI laptop makes up for it
[16:59] <stevenm> oh yeah when i move the cursor really slowly - you can see it blurring
[16:59] <vkareh> but again, ymmv
[16:59] <stevenm> that's what i've have expected
[17:00] <stevenm> so the GTK scaling... does that mean stuff which isn't written with GTK+ won't look right?
[17:00] <stevenm> and is that scaling done in the window manager (in my case, marco i think)
[17:00] <vkareh> this is one of the issues of using X11, which is a 30+ year-old display server... Wayland _should_ give us all the nice things and then some, when it works, but MATE is way too integrated with X11, so that'll be a while
[17:01] <vkareh> stevenm: not necessarily - GTK2 things will look bad, GTK3 things will look good, but there's a flag in gsettings to synchronize the settings with QT apps so that they scale along with GTK
[17:01] <stevenm> ok this sounds horrible already :)
[17:01] <stevenm> but i guess none of these gtk2/3/qt workarounds will be needed with wayland?
[17:01] <vkareh> stevenm: no, the scaling is done directly in GTK... marco scales itself based on the GTK scaling, as well as all GTK apps
[17:02] <vkareh> stevenm: not quite, Wayland only means that scaling can be done at the monitor level... the toolkit still needs to support HiDPI (which gtk2 does not)
[17:03] <stevenm> ok - i think i'm gonna opt for disabling hidpi
[17:03] <stevenm> i'm (hopefully) barely ever going to be looking at the laptop screen anyway
[17:03] <stevenm> my boss wants me on a laptop - but i hate laptops - which is why i have the dock so i can forget it is one
[17:03] <stevenm> i don't need 3 screens :P
[17:03] <vkareh> stevenm: yeah if you expect to use the monitors more than the laptop, that's probably the best idea... unfortunately
[17:03] <vkareh> hah
[17:03] <stevenm> whats the official way to turn off hidpi then?
[17:04] <vkareh> go to MATE Tweak and in the Windows section, set the HiDPI to "Regular"
[17:04] <stevenm> how do i undo this scaling xrandr first - just reset it as 1x2 ?
[17:05] <vkareh> stevenm: or run this in your terminal: `gsettings set org.mate.interface window-scaling-factor 1` (it's the same as the tweak window)
[17:05] <stevenm> *1x1
[17:05] <vkareh> xrandr --output blah --auto (I think)
[17:05] <vkareh> or xrandr --output blah --scale 1x1
[17:07] <stevenm> ok think that has worked
[17:08] <stevenm> hexchat looks bizzare with lots of gaps  -but i'm guessing it'd need relaunching anyway
[17:08] <vkareh> stevenm: yeah, restarting hexchat usually fixes it for me :)
[17:12] <vkareh> stevenm: oooor.... tell your boss to get you two new shiny HiDPI monitors ;)
[17:30] <stevenm> vkareh, yeah i thought that too :) very tempted to just use the company ebay account
[17:30] <stevenm> anyway off home now
[17:30] <stevenm> thanks for the help vkareh  :)
[17:33] <vkareh> stevenm: you're welcome! good luck :)
[20:24] <kriebz> I don't get tooltips (mouse over summary) on my System Monitor panel applet, and I don't know why