| FourDollars | Hi, I would like to make a patch for systemd on cosmic. Which branch should I target on? ubuntu/cosmic-proposed, ubuntu/cosmic-devel, applied/ubuntu/cosmic-devel, or applied/ubuntu/cosmic-proposed? | 08:23 |
|---|---|---|
| FourDollars | Regarding https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd | 08:23 |
| juliank | FourDollars: I think you want to submit a merge proposal against https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+git/systemd/+ref/ubuntu-cosmic or just open a bug with a patch | 10:18 |
| juliank | the importer repo is not really being used | 10:19 |
| KOLANICH | Hello everybody. Can I speak to someone responsible for maintaining package archives? | 10:22 |
| KOLANICH | I see I can't. So, here is the question: could you start providing delta debs? https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/Spec/DeltaDebs not debdelta, but delta debs, another format. Because some users are unhappy that to update firefox they have to download whole package. I gjess keeping the deltas between 2 latest versions is enough. | 10:29 |
| juliank | Oh, KOLANICH | 10:30 |
| juliank | that was weird | 10:30 |
| * Laney smells a juliank sockpuppet :P | 10:32 | |
| FourDollars | juliank: I would like to open a bug and append a patch or just make a merge proposal. | 10:34 |
| juliank | Laney: that does not seem very effective, but I'm happy to hear user interest | 10:34 |
| juliank | FourDollars: Well then, do it | 10:34 |
| FourDollars | juliank: ok thx | 10:40 |
| ahasenack | tjaalton: hey, I noticed the openldap package has a debian/tests directory with some scripts in it, but no debian/tests/control, do you know when those are run? | 11:57 |
| ahasenack | I don't see openldap listed in http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/testlist#index-o either | 11:58 |
| tjaalton | ahasenack: no idea.. | 12:12 |
| tjaalton | ahasenack: looks like they just happen to share the same directory as autopkgtests | 12:14 |
| tjaalton | those haven't been touched since 2008 | 12:16 |
| elektromacumba | hello, i'm under ubuntu 18.04.1 x86 and i'd like to customixe my initrd.img.*, but it's not in the usual format like in x64 version, the "file" command say "ASCII cpio archive (SVR4 with no CRC)" instead of classic gzip/cpio format. there is a way to unpack and customize it? | 13:31 |
| coreycb | sil2100: would you be able to review the bionic upload for bug 1778771 ? | 13:41 |
| ubottu | bug 1778771 in horizon (Ubuntu Bionic) "Backups panel is visible even if enable_backup is False" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778771 | 13:41 |
| rbasak | !dmb-ping | 15:01 |
| ubottu | cyphermox, jbicha, micahg, rbasak, sil2100, slashd, tsimonq2: DMB ping. | 15:01 |
| === michagogo_ is now known as michagogo | ||
| balsaq | i noticed ubuntu does not fully uninstall packages when you ask it to do so leaving bits of useless files in the filesystem | 15:45 |
| balsaq | the ubuntu software center should fully remove the package when the operator presses the remove button | 15:46 |
| TJ- | balsaq: give an example please | 15:47 |
| TJ- | balsaq: "remove" does not touch config files or files altered by the system administrator | 15:47 |
| wxl | ^^ yeah, you need to purge | 15:47 |
| balsaq | i noticed that , but i am saying there is no reason why u should have to do extra work to remove a package | 15:48 |
| balsaq | when u press "remove" it should remove, purge clean or any other step u might need. | 15:48 |
| wxl | you just need to use the right command and you won't have to | 15:48 |
| balsaq | i know that too thanks | 15:49 |
| TJ- | balsaq: no, the idea of "remove" is to keep config files in case the package is re-installed later | 15:49 |
| balsaq | but there is no reason to make things with extra work for no good reason | 15:49 |
| TJ- | balsaq: and the tools try to err on the side of caution | 15:49 |
| balsaq | tj - pardon me but that is not a good reason | 15:49 |
| TJ- | balsaq: it is THE reason | 15:49 |
| xnox | balsaq, use $ apt purge foo or $ apt remove --purge foo | 15:50 |
| balsaq | makes noi sense , because if u want the package back it will put all thos files back | 15:50 |
| rbasak | Unfortunately "remove" or "uninstall" is a bit vague. Different people have different expectations about what that means. For example, if you remove a database package, do you expect the database to be destroyed? As TJ- says, it's erring on the side of caution. | 15:50 |
| rbasak | The same applies to local configuration customisations | 15:50 |
| rbasak | Which is why configuration files are left. | 15:50 |
| wxl | this is not new behavior............. not by any stretch of the imagination | 15:50 |
| rbasak | They are typically tiny anyway. Do you have a specific problem when they aren't removed? | 15:50 |
| balsaq | yes i do | 15:50 |
| xnox | balsaq, there a few false positives, as currently .postrm scripts cannot declare that they are in-fact no-ops for purge, and thus packages get stuck in rc state, despite being clean on the system. | 15:50 |
| balsaq | the problem i just told my OS to remove something and it did not do it comletely that is the problem | 15:51 |
| rbasak | That's not a problem. | 15:51 |
| wxl | it did exactly what you told it to do | 15:51 |
| balsaq | it took the head off and left all the guts laying around | 15:51 |
| wxl | no, it did an `apt-get remove` | 15:52 |
| balsaq | 99 percent of the time when i person shoosed to remove the software thats exactly what they want | 15:52 |
| rbasak | We know what it did, but I don't think you're going to get anyone to accept on this channel that it's actually a problem or that the behaviour should be different unless you can give us an actual broken use case. | 15:52 |
| balsaq | i realize it is not a broken system | 15:52 |
| rbasak | Please keep in mind that for every person who comes in asking the same thing as you, there are others who expect the complete opposite. | 15:52 |
| balsaq | but when you do something you may aas well do it right | 15:53 |
| rbasak | There will be someone who lost a database without expecting the system to do that, for example. | 15:53 |
| wxl | in fact, there are many more | 15:53 |
| rbasak | Ultimately the project has to make a decision on what the default behaviour should be for all users. | 15:53 |
| cjwatson | Can you take this to the bug tracker please? There's at least an argument that it should be possible to purge packages easily in the Software UI app (although I agree with others here that it's best for it not to be the default removal action, as it's irreversible) | 15:53 |
| cjwatson | (There may well be a bug for this already - I haven't checked) | 15:53 |
| wxl | if a user knows nothing, assuming complete purging is a terrible assumption | 15:53 |
| balsaq | yes cjwatson thank you for that...i dont think it is a bug its just a bit of laziness | 15:54 |
| wxl | while doing the opposite has no critical effect at all | 15:54 |
| cjwatson | The bug tracker is where this sort of thing is tracked. | 15:54 |
| rbasak | If you want the default to be changed, you're going to have to come up with a more compelling reason than "I disagree". There's also little point in arguing for the known cons that were already taken into account when the decision was originally made. | 15:55 |
| balsaq | it could be developed like this instead: when the operator presses REMOVE a pop up occurs "do you want to remove this package completely" ? | 15:55 |
| cjwatson | -> bug tracker | 15:55 |
| cjwatson | IRC is not a bug reporting mechanism | 15:55 |
| cjwatson | Anything here will be lost, unless you happen to get lucky and the specific people responsible for the program in question happen to be around | 15:55 |
| wxl | i agree. this should go to the bug tracker. if a sound argument can be made there, i'm sure it could get resolved. | 15:56 |
| balsaq | ok if you think so could one of you with experience please report the bug | 15:56 |
| cjwatson | No, bugs should be reported by the person experiencing the problem | 15:56 |
| wxl | you have the direct experience with the "problem" | 15:56 |
| balsaq | well the simply install a snap package and then remove it and whoala you will be the man | 15:57 |
| cjwatson | Use "ubuntu-bug /path/to/whatever/software/app/you/are/using" | 15:57 |
| cjwatson | Haha you didn't even mention snaps earlier | 15:57 |
| cjwatson | The entire discussion above is predicated on the assumption that you were talking about debs | 15:57 |
| balsaq | well i have a feeling this will happen using the software center no matter what | 15:58 |
| cjwatson | No details -> terrible discussion | 15:58 |
| balsaq | sorry but it came from the software center just as i said | 15:58 |
| cjwatson | Removing a .deb removes everything except a tiny number of config files | 15:58 |
| balsaq | all i am saying is if an OP installs from software center and removes from software center it should do it | 15:58 |
| rbasak | balsaq: I suggest you read: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html - then you might understand our perspective better. | 15:59 |
| cjwatson | Removing a snap, I don't honestly remember | 15:59 |
| wxl | beat me to it rbasak!!! | 15:59 |
| wxl | i literally had that in the clipboard | 15:59 |
| wxl | tbh i don't know about snaps either. that's something worth exploring at the very least. you should file a bug. | 16:00 |
| balsaq | i am saying that when a person removes any pkg from software center he should have the choice to fully remove it right at that moment no matter if it snap or deb thats all i meant | 16:00 |
| wxl | then write a bug report | 16:01 |
| cjwatson | You need to take this to the bug tracker, since as far as I know none of the people answering here work specifically on the software center UI. | 16:01 |
| rbasak | If you're not prepared to sort out a bug report that explains what you mean and provides a place where we can clarify details, track progress and make decisions, then what you're saying will be politely ignored. | 16:01 |
| sladen | balsaq: please repeat the process. Taking a screenshot before, and after, after every step (eg. every mouse) click. And attach all of these to a bug report | 16:01 |
| balsaq | i couldnt possibly explain any better | 16:02 |
| sladen | balsaq: (as politely as it can be said) at the moment, we haven't got *a clue* about the background, nor the details necessary to even start to look into this | 16:02 |
| balsaq | ok | 16:02 |
| balsaq | thanks | 16:02 |
| cjwatson | Also, the implementation of the software center has changed radically between different versions of Ubuntu, and you haven't mentioned which you are using; a bug report is a good place to capture this. The ubuntu-bug program can help you file it. | 16:02 |
| balsaq | i am using the most current one i installed it clean yesterday it is the lated LT 18 10 ubuntu desktop | 16:04 |
| wxl | bug tracker | 16:04 |
| cjwatson | I'm not asking you to tell us here :) | 16:04 |
| balsaq | oh ok | 16:04 |
| balsaq | sorry | 16:04 |
| cjwatson | One of the points of ubuntu-bug is to gather this sort of information automatically so that people don't have to play twenty questions on IRC | 16:04 |
| equinox | hi all... what's the policy/pattern used for the "-0ubuntu0.18.04" suffixes on package versions? (upstream maintainer working on packaging here) | 16:19 |
| cjwatson | equinox: As an upstream, you wouldn't normally use that kind of security-update versioning, though it depends slightly on the situation; that comes from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging | 16:22 |
| equinox | cjwatson: i need to use /some/ suffix because the shlibs:Depends are different between 16.04 and 18.04 (libjson-c2 vs. libjson-c3) | 16:22 |
| cjwatson | Oh, well if you're maintaining for multiple series then pretending they're security updates or similar and using the scheme from the wiki page above is reasonable enough | 16:23 |
| cjwatson | This is presumably in a PPA or similar so you really just need to make sure that the version for the newer series is consistently >= the version in the older series so that upgrades are sensible | 16:24 |
| equinox | we're actually maintaining back to 12.04 on older branches :D | 16:24 |
| equinox | yeah | 16:24 |
| equinox | (how would this work if the package was upstreamed and still needed the suffixes because the build result is slightly different between ubuntu releases?) | 16:25 |
| cjwatson | It'd effectively be a downstream microbranch to do the backport | 16:32 |
| cjwatson | Or somebody upstream would continue maintaining a PPA or whatever | 16:33 |
| cjwatson | Packages in Ubuntu proper don't in general keep rolling to new versions in older series | 16:33 |
| equinox | true... though if ubuntu rolls over to a new release while our package doesn't, there's again a situation where the same source version ends up with different build output due to shlib version differences | 16:35 |
| xnox | equinox, we do not rebuild binaries.... each versioned binary is only compiled once, and is copied up. explicit uploads are required for rebuilds. | 16:45 |
| xnox | ah, but you figured that, hence your question, never mind me | 16:46 |
| balsaq | ok i have a ubuntu one account | 17:01 |
| balsaq | wow launchpad timed out after all thiws work thus it didnot sully take my bug report | 17:19 |
| balsaq | sheeesh | 17:19 |
| cjwatson | you should be able to go back and try again | 17:19 |
| cjwatson | it shouldn't have lost the text | 17:20 |
| balsaq | well i can tell some went thru becasue i saw a note in there that said "simliar problemreported before" | 17:22 |
| balsaq | apparantly noone knows how to integrte the purge command with the remove button in gnome-software | 17:23 |
| balsaq | but im glad i have the ubuntu one now i see bugs all the time | 17:25 |
| balsaq | in fact yesterday my icons from my icon launcher were "sticking" to my mouse pointer on screen as if they were magnetized...was very annoying on a fresh clean installation of ubuntu 18 10. | 17:29 |
| balsaq | for some reaon it seems to have stopped now... | 17:30 |
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