FourDollarsHi, I would like to make a patch for systemd on cosmic. Which branch should I target on? ubuntu/cosmic-proposed, ubuntu/cosmic-devel, applied/ubuntu/cosmic-devel, or applied/ubuntu/cosmic-proposed?08:23
FourDollarsRegarding https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd08:23
juliankFourDollars: I think you want to submit a merge proposal against https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+git/systemd/+ref/ubuntu-cosmic or just open a bug with a patch10:18
juliankthe importer repo is not really being used10:19
KOLANICHHello everybody. Can I speak to someone responsible for maintaining package archives?10:22
KOLANICHI see I can't. So, here is the question: could you start providing delta debs? https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/Spec/DeltaDebs not debdelta, but delta debs, another format. Because some users are unhappy that to update firefox they have to download whole package. I gjess keeping the deltas between 2 latest versions is enough.10:29
juliankOh, KOLANICH10:30
juliankthat was weird10:30
* Laney smells a juliank sockpuppet :P10:32
FourDollarsjuliank: I would like to open a bug and append a patch or just make a merge proposal.10:34
juliankLaney: that does not seem very effective, but I'm happy to hear user interest10:34
juliankFourDollars: Well then, do it10:34
FourDollarsjuliank: ok thx10:40
ahasenacktjaalton: hey, I noticed the openldap package has a debian/tests directory with some scripts in it, but no debian/tests/control, do you know when those are run?11:57
ahasenackI don't see openldap listed in http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/testlist#index-o either11:58
tjaaltonahasenack: no idea..12:12
tjaaltonahasenack: looks like they just happen to share the same directory as autopkgtests12:14
tjaaltonthose haven't been touched since 200812:16
elektromacumbahello, i'm under ubuntu 18.04.1 x86 and i'd like to customixe my initrd.img.*, but it's not in the usual format like in x64 version, the "file" command say "ASCII cpio archive (SVR4 with no CRC)" instead of classic gzip/cpio format. there is a way to unpack and customize it?13:31
coreycbsil2100: would you be able to review the bionic upload for bug 1778771 ?13:41
ubottubug 1778771 in horizon (Ubuntu Bionic) "Backups panel is visible even if enable_backup is False" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177877113:41
ubottucyphermox, jbicha, micahg, rbasak, sil2100, slashd, tsimonq2: DMB ping.15:01
=== michagogo_ is now known as michagogo
balsaqi noticed ubuntu does not fully uninstall packages when you ask it to do so leaving bits of useless files in the filesystem15:45
balsaqthe ubuntu software center should fully remove the package when the operator presses the remove button15:46
TJ-balsaq: give an example please15:47
TJ-balsaq: "remove" does not touch config files or files altered by the system administrator15:47
wxl^^ yeah, you need to purge15:47
balsaqi noticed that , but i am saying there is no reason why u should have to do extra work to remove a package15:48
balsaqwhen u press "remove" it should remove, purge clean or any other step u might need.15:48
wxlyou just need to use the right command and you won't have to15:48
balsaqi know that too thanks15:49
TJ-balsaq: no, the idea of "remove" is to keep config files in case the package is re-installed later15:49
balsaqbut there is no reason to make things with extra work for no good reason15:49
TJ-balsaq: and the tools try to err on the side of caution15:49
balsaqtj - pardon me  but that is not a good reason15:49
TJ-balsaq: it is THE reason15:49
xnoxbalsaq, use $ apt purge foo  or $ apt remove --purge foo15:50
balsaqmakes noi sense , because if  u want the package back it will put all thos files back15:50
rbasakUnfortunately "remove" or "uninstall" is a bit vague. Different people have different expectations about what that means. For example, if you remove a database package, do you expect the database to be destroyed? As TJ- says, it's erring on the side of caution.15:50
rbasakThe same applies to local configuration customisations15:50
rbasakWhich is why configuration files are left.15:50
wxlthis is not new behavior............. not by any stretch of the imagination15:50
rbasakThey are typically tiny anyway. Do you have a specific problem when they aren't removed?15:50
balsaqyes i do15:50
xnoxbalsaq, there a few false positives, as currently .postrm scripts cannot declare that they are in-fact no-ops for purge, and thus packages get stuck in rc state, despite being clean on the system.15:50
balsaqthe problem i just told my OS to remove something and it did not do it comletely that is the problem15:51
rbasakThat's not a problem.15:51
wxlit did exactly what you told it to do15:51
balsaqit took the head off and left all the guts laying around15:51
wxlno, it did an `apt-get remove`15:52
balsaq99 percent of the time when i person shoosed to remove the software thats exactly what they want15:52
rbasakWe know what it did, but I don't think you're going to get anyone to accept on this channel that it's actually a problem or that the behaviour should be different unless you can give us an actual broken use case.15:52
balsaqi realize it is not a broken system15:52
rbasakPlease keep in mind that for every person who comes in asking the same thing as you, there are others who expect the complete opposite.15:52
balsaqbut when you do something you may aas well do it right15:53
rbasakThere will be someone who lost a database without expecting the system to do that, for example.15:53
wxlin fact, there are many more15:53
rbasakUltimately the project has to make a decision on what the default behaviour should be for all users.15:53
cjwatsonCan you take this to the bug tracker please?  There's at least an argument that it should be possible to purge packages easily in the Software UI app (although I agree with others here that it's best for it not to be the default removal action, as it's irreversible)15:53
cjwatson(There may well be a bug for this already - I haven't checked)15:53
wxlif a user knows nothing, assuming complete purging is a terrible assumption15:53
balsaqyes cjwatson thank you for that...i dont think it is a bug its just a bit of laziness15:54
wxlwhile doing the opposite has no critical effect at all15:54
cjwatsonThe bug tracker is where this sort of thing is tracked.15:54
rbasakIf you want the default to be changed, you're going to have to come up with a more compelling reason than "I disagree". There's also little point in arguing for the known cons that were already taken into account when the decision was originally made.15:55
balsaqit could be developed like this instead:  when the operator presses REMOVE   a  pop up occurs   "do you want to remove this package completely" ?15:55
cjwatson-> bug tracker15:55
cjwatsonIRC is not a bug reporting mechanism15:55
cjwatsonAnything here will be lost, unless you happen to get lucky and the specific people responsible for the program in question happen to be around15:55
wxli agree. this should go to the bug tracker. if a sound argument can be made there, i'm sure it could get resolved.15:56
balsaqok if you think so could one of you with experience please report the bug15:56
cjwatsonNo, bugs should be reported by the person experiencing the problem15:56
wxlyou have the direct experience with the "problem"15:56
balsaqwell the simply install a snap package and then remove it and whoala you will be the man15:57
cjwatsonUse "ubuntu-bug /path/to/whatever/software/app/you/are/using"15:57
cjwatsonHaha you didn't even mention snaps earlier15:57
cjwatsonThe entire discussion above is predicated on the assumption that you were talking about debs15:57
balsaqwell i  have a feeling this will happen using the software center no matter what15:58
cjwatsonNo details -> terrible discussion15:58
balsaqsorry but it came from the software center just as i said15:58
cjwatsonRemoving a .deb removes everything except a tiny number of config files15:58
balsaqall i am saying is if an OP installs from software center and removes from software center it should do it15:58
rbasakbalsaq: I suggest you read: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html - then you might understand our perspective better.15:59
cjwatsonRemoving a snap, I don't honestly remember15:59
wxlbeat me to it rbasak!!!15:59
wxli literally had that in the clipboard15:59
wxltbh i don't know about snaps either. that's something worth exploring at the very least. you should file a bug.16:00
balsaqi am saying that when a person removes any pkg from software center he should have the choice to fully remove it right at that moment no matter if it snap or deb thats all i meant16:00
wxlthen write a bug report16:01
cjwatsonYou need to take this to the bug tracker, since as far as I know none of the people answering here work specifically on the software center UI.16:01
rbasakIf you're not prepared to sort out a bug report that explains what you mean and provides a place where we can clarify details, track progress and make decisions, then what you're saying will be politely ignored.16:01
sladenbalsaq: please repeat the process.  Taking a screenshot before, and after, after every step (eg. every mouse) click.  And attach all of these to a bug report16:01
balsaqi couldnt possibly explain any better16:02
sladenbalsaq: (as politely as it can be said) at the moment, we haven't got *a clue* about the background, nor the details necessary to even start to look into this16:02
cjwatsonAlso, the implementation of the software center has changed radically between different versions of Ubuntu, and you haven't mentioned which you are using; a bug report is a good place to capture this.  The ubuntu-bug program can help you file it.16:02
balsaqi am using the most current one i installed it clean yesterday  it is the lated LT 18 10 ubuntu desktop16:04
wxlbug tracker16:04
cjwatsonI'm not asking you to tell us here :)16:04
balsaqoh ok16:04
cjwatsonOne of the points of ubuntu-bug is to gather this sort of information automatically so that people don't have to play twenty questions on IRC16:04
equinoxhi all... what's the policy/pattern used for the "-0ubuntu0.18.04" suffixes on package versions? (upstream maintainer working on packaging here)16:19
cjwatsonequinox: As an upstream, you wouldn't normally use that kind of security-update versioning, though it depends slightly on the situation; that comes from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging16:22
equinoxcjwatson: i need to use /some/ suffix because the shlibs:Depends are different between 16.04 and 18.04 (libjson-c2 vs. libjson-c3)16:22
cjwatsonOh, well if you're maintaining for multiple series then pretending they're security updates or similar and using the scheme from the wiki page above is reasonable enough16:23
cjwatsonThis is presumably in a PPA or similar so you really just need to make sure that the version for the newer series is consistently >= the version in the older series so that upgrades are sensible16:24
equinoxwe're actually maintaining back to 12.04 on older branches :D16:24
equinox(how would this work if the package was upstreamed and still needed the suffixes because the build result is slightly different between ubuntu releases?)16:25
cjwatsonIt'd effectively be a downstream microbranch to do the backport16:32
cjwatsonOr somebody upstream would continue maintaining a PPA or whatever16:33
cjwatsonPackages in Ubuntu proper don't in general keep rolling to new versions in older series16:33
equinoxtrue... though if ubuntu rolls over to a new release while our package doesn't, there's again a situation where the same source version ends up with different build output due to shlib version differences16:35
xnoxequinox, we do not rebuild binaries.... each versioned binary is only compiled once, and is copied up. explicit uploads are required for rebuilds.16:45
xnoxah, but you figured that, hence your question, never mind me16:46
balsaqok i have a ubuntu one account17:01
balsaqwow launchpad timed out after all thiws work thus it didnot sully take my bug report17:19
cjwatsonyou should be able to go back and try again17:19
cjwatsonit shouldn't have lost the text17:20
balsaqwell i can tell some went thru becasue i saw a note in there that said "simliar problemreported before"17:22
balsaqapparantly noone knows how to integrte the purge command with the remove button in gnome-software17:23
balsaqbut im glad i have the ubuntu one now i see bugs all the time17:25
balsaqin fact yesterday my icons from my icon launcher were "sticking" to my mouse pointer on screen as if they were magnetized...was very annoying on a fresh clean installation of ubuntu 18 10.17:29
balsaqfor some reaon it seems to have stopped now...17:30

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