[00:00] <idioterna> it's our third year exploring it
[00:00] <idioterna> https://bou.si/pic/batch/kras
[00:00] <kristian1> I recently heard that the hospitality of the Vietnamese has been to the point where they no longer like tourists ... very sad
[00:00] <idioterna> pics
[00:00] <idioterna> yeah i can imagine
[00:00] <idioterna> ljubljana is overflowing with tourists in the summer
[00:00] <idioterna> but not so much the rest of the year
[00:00] <kristian1> are those your pics?
[00:01] <idioterna> yeah
[00:01] <idioterna> from my phone
[00:01] <idioterna> i haven't copied canon's memory card yet
[00:01] <kristian1> stunning landscape, and your family looks nice :)
[00:02] <idioterna> if you ever come during summer, i have to recommend my favourite bicycle ride
[00:02] <idioterna> but you can do it with a car as well
[00:02] <idioterna> or a motorcycle if that's your thing
[00:02] <idioterna> i took my coworker from helsinki
[00:02] <idioterna> https://bou.si/pic/batch/alpe-with-kalle
[00:02] <kristian1> I've not been on a bike for 25 years or so
[00:03] <kristian1> more beautiful landscapes there
[00:03] <kristian1> have you been to Romania? I was surprised that the Carpathians are so prominent and beautiful
[00:04] <idioterna> no, but a guy i know came back two weeks ago and his pics were amazing
[00:04] <idioterna> of the mountain roads mostly
[00:04] <idioterna> i've been to bulgaria, it's very similar
[00:04] <kristian1> also a ton of citadels in the mountains
[00:04] <idioterna> yeah
[00:04] <kristian1> I have been told that, yes
[00:05] <kristian1> it's crazy how we got all these apps and websites to save time
[00:05] <kristian1> and we're total slaves of them
[00:05] <idioterna> hehe
[00:06] <idioterna> well i'm lucky that way
[00:06] <idioterna> i've saved up enough for retirement by the time i was 35
[00:06] <idioterna> so now i just work for fun
[00:06] <idioterna> i've been taking care of my grandma for a couple of years now
[00:06] <kristian1> I can't even afford to die and I'm almost 40 :(
[00:06] <kristian1> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13856206?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&toddlers=0&check_in=2018-11-16&check_out=2018-11-19&s=saGOr5P2
[00:06] <kristian1> does that link work?
[00:07] <idioterna> yeah, but it's way outside city center
[00:07] <kristian1> bugger
[00:07] <idioterna> let me find one for you
[00:08] <kristian1> very kind of you
[00:08] <kristian1> I'm looking for something where I don't disturb people if I'm home late ... I won't be partying, but the trips may take a long time
[00:09] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/15021326?s=eJ1ir4Ph
[00:09] <idioterna> this one is the cheapest i can find in the city centre
[00:10] <kristian1> I need one that is available from the 16th to the 19th
[00:10] <kristian1> sorry I forgot to mention that
[00:10] <kristian1> but dead center is not required ... walking distance would be nice though
[00:11] <kristian1> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/18120290?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&toddlers=0&check_in=2018-11-16&check_out=2018-11-19&s=saGOr5P2
[00:12] <kristian1> hurm, also looks like it's a bit from the actual town
[00:12] <idioterna> no this is way outside town
[00:12] <idioterna> like 20 minutes with a bike
[00:14] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13168644?adults=1&check_in=2018-11-16&check_out=2018-11-19&s=6iRgk_4w is a room in the centre
[00:15] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/26362715?adults=1&check_in=2018-11-16&check_out=2018-11-19&s=6iRgk_4w looks ok too
[00:15] <kristian1> that's the same link :)
[00:16] <idioterna> no
[00:16] <idioterna> the number is different :)
[00:16] <idioterna> behind rooms/
[00:17] <kristian1> ah!
[00:18] <idioterna> it's weird that for your dates there's a lot less available
[00:19] <kristian1> that's just my famous luck
[00:19] <kristian1> :)
[00:19] <kristian1> "You will get your own set of keys, and you may come and go as you please."
[00:19] <kristian1> but also talk of a baby
[00:20] <idioterna> i don't think the place is set up in a way that they'd be bothered by people coming and going
[00:20] <kristian1> that's not the impression I get either
[00:21] <kristian1> you know how it is when you go on a trip ... sometimes you're home very late
[00:21] <idioterna> yeah i know
[00:21] <idioterna> i've been to airbnbs in copenhagen a lot in the past year
[00:24] <kristian1> it's nice with the metro net that you can stay somewhere like Valby and zoom into Copenhagen fast and cheaply
[00:24] <kristian1> also, center Cph is not really nice
[00:24] <idioterna> yeah it's built up much more than ljubljana
[00:25] <kristian1> dirty, noisy ... aggressive
[00:25] <idioterna> ljubljana is trying hard in the recent years to become greener, but it's always been quite green
[00:25] <kristian1> <-- not much of a Copenhagen fan
[00:25] <idioterna> i really liked roskilde
[00:25] <kristian1> but one thing I should take into consideration is that I don't know this town at all ... so a bit of commute will be an experience
[00:25] <kristian1> Roskilde is nicer
[00:26] <kristian1> do you know Frederiksberg?
[00:26] <idioterna> yeah
[00:26] <idioterna> i've been there for a week in june
[00:26] <kristian1> that's like the nice part of Copenhagen
[00:26] <idioterna> yeah it was much nicer
[00:26] <idioterna> we could keep windows open at night and sleep nice
[00:26] <kristian1> are you aware it's the only part of Copenhagen with a non-socialist mayor?
[00:26] <idioterna> no
[00:26] <kristian1> that's quite funny
[00:27] <kristian1> all big cities are red but Copenhagen is virtually communist
[00:27] <kristian1> lots of corruption scandals recently with their "Enhedslisten" mayors
[00:27] <kristian1> sorry ... I'll shut up about Danish politics now :)
[00:27] <idioterna> i don't mind
[00:28] <idioterna> i'm a communist as well, philosophically
[00:28] <kristian1> well ...
[00:28] <idioterna> well, an anarchist-syndicalist, but those are nuances that are not really important :)
[00:28] <idioterna> but i do agree communism very much lends itself to corruption
[00:29] <kristian1> I've had great pleasure in reading Walter Benjamin, and I think your guy provides some nice commentary ... but I'm opposed to communism as a political system as it has never worked
[00:29] <idioterna> it can't really work without total transparency and very high levels of political engagement
[00:29] <idioterna> well it has worked
[00:29] <kristian1> yeah, and most people don't care and never will
[00:29] <kristian1> I
[00:29] <kristian1> * I'm curious now ... where?
[00:29] <idioterna> but isn't really applicable in most situations
[00:30] <kristian1> Tito?
[00:30] <idioterna> no no god no
[00:30] <idioterna> yugoslavia under tito was a dictatorship
[00:30] <kristian1> I know some people miss him
[00:30] <kristian1> but yes it was
[00:30] <idioterna> well, that's the thing
[00:30] <idioterna> if you're a dictator, you can cater for the part of population that supports you
[00:30] <idioterna> if you're a socialist dictator, you can even be "democratic"
[00:31] <kristian1> he seems to me (as an outsider) to have been the least horrible communist dictator, maybe
[00:31] <idioterna> we didn't need as much repression because the state could let people cross the border to buy stuff in the west
[00:31] <idioterna> and work there and bring money home
[00:31] <idioterna> and people loved the system because "everyone had jobs and housing"
[00:32] <idioterna> but that's not what was happening
[00:32] <idioterna> there were regions that were lagging behind more and more
[00:32] <idioterna> anyway, this is a really long debate we're starting
[00:32] <kristian1> yes, at a bad hour
[00:32] <idioterna> there are a number of small communes that successfully implemented socialist ideas and a communist way of doing governance
[00:33] <idioterna> mostly these were jewish kibbutzes
[00:33] <idioterna> and some spanish villages
[00:33] <kristian1> ah, now I follow your line of thinking
[00:33] <idioterna> there's an interesting experiment going on in northern free syria
[00:33] <idioterna> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Federation_of_Northern_Syria
[00:33] <linkdoggo> ^ Democratic Federation of Northern Syria - Wikipedia https://tinyurl.com/y8ktqady ^
[00:33] <kristian1> for small communities that people can leave if they don't like it ... it may work
[00:34] <idioterna> but i don't think it can last long without a lot of support from outside
[00:34] <idioterna> yeah that's usually the problem
[00:34] <idioterna> people who pull more than their fair share tend to leave because they get a better deal elsewhere
[00:35] <idioterna> slovenia is a kind of a weird country because we've got insanely small income inequality and almost no violent crime to speak of
[00:35] <idioterna> nobody believes anyone else is actually rich
[00:35] <idioterna> and it's kind of true
[00:35] <kristian1> as a nationwide system, communism always relies on violence
[00:35] <idioterna> yeah, it has
[00:35] <kristian1> Denmark is very equal as well
[00:35] <idioterna> and it makes sense, because without repression, there's no incentive to remain a part of it
[00:36] <kristian1> yeah
[00:36] <idioterna> but we now have russian millionaires and english families moving in
[00:36] <idioterna> because it's cheap and we still have an amazing quality of life
[00:37] <idioterna> both work-life balance wise and stuff like health care and crime levels and school system
[00:37] <idioterna> there's problems in all of those areas, but nothing really horrible
[00:37] <kristian1> sorry, did I ask about this one?
[00:37] <kristian1> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13856206?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&toddlers=0&check_in=2018-11-16&check_out=2018-11-19&s=saGOr5P2
[00:38] <idioterna> it's about a 15 minute walk
[00:38] <kristian1> that's not too bad
[00:38] <idioterna> no, it's fine
[00:38] <idioterna> looks ok
[00:38] <kristian1> I had the most horrible experience in Warsaw a few years ago
[00:39] <idioterna> with airbnb?
[00:39] <kristian1> I did not read the description properly ... my (dirt cheap) room was behind the bedroom of the host
[00:39] <kristian1> insanely awkward
[00:39] <kristian1> yeah, it was no fault of anyone but me ...
[00:39] <idioterna> well, that depends on how religious they are i suppose :)
[00:40] <idioterna> i hope they didn't keep you awake :)
[00:40] <kristian1> they did not
[00:40] <kristian1> nice people
[00:42] <idioterna> still feels like you have to kiss them good night or something :)
[00:42] <kristian1> yeah
[00:42] <kristian1> I'm that age where you have to go to the bathroom at night
[00:43] <kristian1> especially after a long day of Polish cafés
[00:43] <kristian1> I cringe when I think of that place :)
[00:43] <idioterna> yeah i can imagine
[00:44] <kristian1> sorry, one redundant question
[00:44] <kristian1> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/18120290?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&toddlers=0&check_in=2018-11-16&check_out=2018-11-19&s=saGOr5P2
[00:44] <kristian1> this one is how far from town center by bus do you think?
[00:44] <idioterna> there's no bus there
[00:45] <idioterna> there's number 12 but it doesn't run on weekends i think
[00:45] <idioterna> and it runs every hour or so
[00:45] <kristian1> "There is bus stop in 3 min from house."
[00:45] <idioterna> yeah, not a good bus
[00:46] <idioterna> maybe i'm biased a bit :)
[00:47] <idioterna> yeah http://www.lpp.si/sites/default/files/lpp_vozniredi/iskalnik/tmp/files/867/12_B_204071.pdf
[00:47] <linkdoggo> ^ https://tinyurl.com/yb7sw7pd ^
[00:48] <idioterna> every 70 minutes
[00:48] <idioterna> bad bus :)
[00:48] <kristian1> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13856206?s=51
[00:48] <idioterna> even on workdays it doesn't go frequently
[00:48] <kristian1> I guess this is it
[00:49] <idioterna> this one is much closer
[00:50] <idioterna> it's a 15 minute walk or so
[00:50] <idioterna> not in a very interesting part of town
[00:50] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13540105 is like 5 minutes from the center
[00:51] <idioterna> but looks a little shady
[00:51] <pitastrudl> hm ,the owners seem pretty nice
[00:52] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/11058696
[00:52] <idioterna> this one looks better
[00:53] <kristian1> I was looking at that also
[00:53] <idioterna> they give you a bike, which is great
[00:53] <kristian1> but it looks less private
[00:53] <idioterna> that's true
[00:53] <kristian1> I can barely ride a bike
[00:53] <kristian1> it's not that I don't want people around, I just don't want to be a nuisance
[00:56] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/21332437 looks fine too
[00:57] <kristian1> ha, that's also one of the first ones I considered
[00:57] <kristian1> but, my line of thinking is ... I go to Venice just before Ljubljana, and Vienna just after ... so I will see plenty of nice places
[00:58] <kristian1> thus, I don't need a beautiful place to stay in Ljubljana
[00:58] <idioterna> well it's close to old town
[00:58] <kristian1> but that last one sure is nice
[00:58] <idioterna> like, inside it :)
[00:58] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/s/homes?refinement_paths%5B%5D=%2Fhomes&query=ljubljana&allow_override%5B%5D=&checkin=2018-11-16&checkout=2018-11-19&zoom=18&search_by_map=true&sw_lat=46.04514798685511&sw_lng=14.501198783992663&ne_lat=46.051604506710056&ne_lng=14.51627279865636&s_tag=zdUQqXm0
[00:59] <idioterna> i don't know what you see on this map
[00:59] <idioterna> but it's right under the castle
[00:59] <kristian1> I understand that much
[00:59] <kristian1> but my budget likes the other one, I guess
[00:59] <kristian1> not that it's a big difference
[00:59] <idioterna> it's 10 euros or something
[01:01] <kristian1> yeah
[01:01] <kristian1> hurm hurm hurm
[01:01] <kristian1> but, you know what?
[01:02] <kristian1> often, I really like staying somewhere a bit obscure ... and see a normal neighbourhood with the shops and stuff
[01:02] <kristian1> the anthropology is better
[01:02] <idioterna> i agree
[01:03] <idioterna> i think you'll see more of what ljubljana is in the one down opekarska street
[01:03] <kristian1> the one I got?
[01:03] <kristian1> I'm starting to get too tired for thinking/typing
[01:03] <idioterna> the "i guess this is it" one yeah
[01:03] <idioterna> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13856206?s=51
[01:04] <idioterna> this one
[01:05] <kristian1> yeah, that one
[01:05] <kristian1> also, Milovan has what appears to be a very Slovenian name
[01:05] <kristian1> :)
[01:05] <idioterna> it's a serbian name, actually
[01:05] <idioterna> but we're all brothers :)
[01:06] <kristian1> ah
[01:06] <idioterna> us and serbs, we're both supposed to hate croatians!
[01:06] <idioterna> and apparently we do
[01:06] <kristian1> I understand you have some baggage there but that it's getting better
[01:06] <idioterna> we had wars and border disputes and whatnot not so long ago :)
[01:06] <kristian1> I feel very lucky that we have not fought our neighbours for something like a hundred years
[01:06] <idioterna> well i liked it better in yugoslavia in that regard
[01:07] <kristian1> except the Germans of course, but they took a whooping for it
[01:07] <idioterna> we had no borders and didn't really care about them
[01:07] <kristian1> yeah, that was one thing that worked
[01:07] <idioterna> yeah i've recently seen the movie
[01:07] <kristian1> how old are you?
[01:07] <kristian1> what movie did you see?
[01:07] <idioterna> under sandet
[01:07] <idioterna> i'm ~39
[01:09] <kristian1> ah, the hell with that
[01:09] <kristian1> total revisionism
[01:09] <kristian1> the West is so keen on hating itself that we started to invent historical atrocities
[01:10] <idioterna> you mean what they show in the movie?
[01:10] <idioterna> i didn't think it was an atrocity
[01:10] <idioterna> i mean i find it quite credible, but not really an atrocity
[01:10] <kristian1> it was the British who ordered the German boys to do that stuff, but Copenhagen artists want to show us as war criminals
[01:10] <idioterna> oh
[01:11] <idioterna> yeah, i do find more than a million wehrmacht that were basically starved to death at the rheinlagers an atrocity, but
[01:11] <idioterna> in slovenia, we murdered entire families after the war
[01:11] <kristian1> the movie may work as drama, I have not seen it
[01:11] <idioterna> and didn't really do a very good job in terms of due process :)
[01:11] <idioterna> but after the war, nobody was really interested in that
[01:11] <kristian1> there was a lot of crap in Denmark too
[01:12] <idioterna> we just settled scores
[01:12] <idioterna> mostly personal i suspect
[01:12] <idioterna> the war was brutal and i don't think anyone had second thoughts in the aftermath
[01:13] <idioterna> my grandpas were both part of communist partisans but some from my family ran for their lives so
[01:13] <kristian1> there is a fairly recent Danish war movie that I enjoyed
[01:13] <idioterna> many politicians are still arguing about it though
[01:13] <idioterna> i don't think it's possible to set it right
[01:13] <kristian1> same here ... not as bad as it used to be
[01:14] <kristian1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_9th_(film)
[01:14] <linkdoggo> ^ April 9th (film) - Wikipedia ^
[01:15] <idioterna> cool, i'll try to find it
[01:15] <idioterna> one thing that still works in slovenia is bittorrent
[01:15] <idioterna> nobody can really prosecute you if you do it
[01:15] <idioterna> not yet anyway
[01:15] <idioterna> the new eu copyright directive is likely to change that
[01:15] <idioterna> and moving to switzerland is pricey :)
[01:16] <idioterna> ok my gf wants me to come sleep
[01:16] <idioterna> later
[01:16] <idioterna> come to this channel or mail jure@hehe.si
[01:16] <idioterna> we can talk about ljubljana or bled or whatever
[01:16] <idioterna> good night :)
[01:17] <kristian1> I will remember the bittorent part :)
[01:17] <kristian1> thanks for the chat, goodnight
[12:38] <sasa84> jou jou joou
[12:38] <sasa84> ooo t3ch ..dolgo te nismo videli :)
[18:44] <slax0r> https://ptpb.pw/fDxc.png
[18:44] <slax0r> i've done it ^^
[19:07] <zdobbie> ti si najbolj kul tata
[19:52] <CrazyLemon> slax0r done what? put elephants on your wall??
[19:52] <CrazyLemon> kudos!
[21:54] <CrazyLemon> https://i.imgur.com/QGQuDVp.png
[21:54] <CrazyLemon> whats wrong with google