| === sorinello1 is now known as sorinello | ||
| Unit193 | sorinello: I am not aware of one, no. | 05:20 |
|---|---|---|
| sorinello | Unit193, should I pastebin pe syslog file ? | 06:24 |
| Unit193 | I won't be able to get to it any time soon. | 06:54 |
| tracker6 | hi | 06:55 |
| tracker6 | hello | 06:56 |
| knome | hello | 07:09 |
| tracker6 | what are your doing? | 08:15 |
| knome | hmm. | 08:22 |
| -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-3-released-tp52174.html (by Sean Davis-6) | 11:15 | |
| sorinello | Unit193, I have saved it locally, when/if you will want to give a look, I can pastebin the file. | 14:49 |
| pleia2 | Canonical IS has pad.ubuntu.com on their decommissioning list and they're trying to determine who all is using it, I let them know that we do, but we should start thinking of alternatives in case they do decide to get rid of it | 15:13 |
| pleia2 | hopefully now that they know we're using it, at the very least they'd let us know so we can make backups of things /o\ | 15:14 |
| ochosi | pleia2: yeah, would be a shame if they remove it. otherwise we can try to go with some other open etherpad... but the nice part was openid auth | 16:44 |
| * pleia2 nods | 16:56 | |
| === brainwash_ is now known as brainwash | ||
| * flocculant double checks times and UTC | 21:01 | |
| === guiver_d is now known as guiverc | ||
| flocculant | !team | half an hourish for tonight's meeting | 21:34 |
| ubottu | half an hourish for tonight's meeting: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193 | 21:34 |
| * bluesabre waves | 21:53 | |
| flocculant | evening :) | 21:53 |
| bluesabre | evening flocculant | 21:53 |
| flocculant | at least you adn I then | 21:53 |
| * ochosi is here against all odds | 21:58 | |
| bluesabre | woohoo! | 21:58 |
| bluesabre | I could say the same... with DST changes, this time is actually when I normally get off work | 21:58 |
| flocculant | timezones ... | 21:58 |
| flocculant | !meeting | 22:00 |
| ubottu | Next scheduled Xubuntu community meeting and the agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings | 22:00 |
| flocculant | so - other than bluesabre and ochosi =- anyone else about? | 22:00 |
| bluesabre | (#startmeeting?) | 22:00 |
| flocculant | that's how often I do it :D | 22:01 |
| flocculant | #startmeeting | 22:01 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Fri Nov 23 22:01:07 2018 UTC. The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 22:01 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 22:01 |
| bluesabre | :) | 22:01 |
| flocculant | windered where the bot got to :D | 22:01 |
| bluesabre | that was my contribution, good to go now | 22:01 |
| bluesabre | :D | 22:01 |
| * flocculant ponders things to see if anyone else shows up | 22:01 | |
| ochosi | do we have a clear agenda? | 22:02 |
| flocculant | yea | 22:02 |
| flocculant | it's about 10 yards long | 22:02 |
| ochosi | kewl, sry, i'm lagging a bit behind | 22:02 |
| flocculant | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings | 22:03 |
| ochosi | trying to fix a few xfce panel bugs meanwhile | 22:03 |
| ochosi | k | 22:03 |
| ochosi | no open action items i guess | 22:03 |
| ochosi | regarding updates and announcements, only from upstream from my side | 22:03 |
| flocculant | okey doke - so | 22:03 |
| flocculant | #topic Open action items | 22:04 |
| flocculant | all done | 22:04 |
| flocculant | #topic Updates/Announcements | 22:04 |
| flocculant | ochosi has none | 22:04 |
| flocculant | neither do I | 22:04 |
| flocculant | bluesabre ? | 22:04 |
| ochosi | well depends, if you're interested in upstream xfce updates i can mention some stuff | 22:04 |
| ochosi | and i guess bluesabre wants to mention his recent screensaver release | 22:05 |
| flocculant | I'd guess so | 22:05 |
| bluesabre | Sure | 22:05 |
| bluesabre | #info xfce4-screensaver 0.1.3 released, https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-announce/2018-November/000651.html, more on this later | 22:06 |
| flocculant | saw that one - where is it :p | 22:06 |
| bluesabre | Somewhere | 22:06 |
| flocculant | :D | 22:06 |
| bluesabre | Not packaged yet, I think | 22:06 |
| flocculant | ack | 22:06 |
| ochosi | #info new development release of xfce-panel coming up soon, quite a few fixes since the previous version already | 22:07 |
| bluesabre | But it's a good one ;) | 22:07 |
| flocculant | re these updates - we only have 1 up to date dev ppa - will verything get there? | 22:07 |
| ochosi | #info "primary display" support added to xfdesktop (which pretty much completes the feature in xfce) https://simon.shimmerproject.org/2018/11/12/adventures-in-primary-display-land/ | 22:07 |
| bluesabre | flocculant: yup :) | 22:08 |
| flocculant | anything else? | 22:09 |
| bluesabre | nothing from me | 22:09 |
| bluesabre | my life has been a screensaver for the last several weeks | 22:09 |
| flocculant | mine has been for 13 years ... | 22:09 |
| * bluesabre waggles the mouse | 22:09 | |
| flocculant | anyway - let's move swiftly along then :) | 22:10 |
| ochosi | that's it from me too | 22:10 |
| flocculant | #topic Discussions | 22:10 |
| flocculant | #subtopic £" bit | 22:11 |
| flocculant | sigh | 22:11 |
| flocculant | #undo | 22:11 |
| meetingology | Removing item from minutes: SUBTOPIC | 22:11 |
| bluesabre | :) | 22:11 |
| flocculant | #subtopic 32 Bit | 22:11 |
| flocculant | so - given than we've now got no upgrades from 32 bit of any real use - I propose we finally kill this off | 22:12 |
| bluesabre | related, https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LibreOffice-6.2-Beta-1 LibreOffice 6.2 deprecates 32-bit builds | 22:12 |
| flocculant | and that won't help | 22:12 |
| bluesabre | nope | 22:13 |
| flocculant | I think we should do a mailing list team vote on this one | 22:13 |
| bluesabre | I agree. | 22:13 |
| flocculant | ochosi: ? | 22:14 |
| ochosi | yeah | 22:14 |
| ochosi | agreed | 22:14 |
| ochosi | (both, the killing off and the ML) | 22:15 |
| ochosi | if the ML yields no relevant/clear results, we can take it to the council to decide | 22:15 |
| flocculant | #action flocculant to mail list for Team vote on 32 bit | 22:15 |
| meetingology | ACTION: flocculant to mail list for Team vote on 32 bit | 22:15 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Minimal Install for Core-like experience | 22:16 |
| * flocculant lets bluesabre have a warble | 22:16 | |
| bluesabre | So, with the addition of the minimal install option on the ISO, there's more resistance than ever to approve and merge our patches to make Xubuntu Core official... | 22:17 |
| ochosi | :/ | 22:18 |
| bluesabre | ... and there's basically a single person that is the gatekeeper of that now, so meh | 22:18 |
| ochosi | this has been going on for far too long anyway | 22:18 |
| bluesabre | Yup | 22:18 |
| flocculant | right | 22:18 |
| bluesabre | So I propose, we go the alternative route and add the minimal install option that the other flavors and main have opted for | 22:18 |
| bluesabre | Same disk image, but with the option to install a subset of the packages | 22:19 |
| flocculant | yea - from memory it's not quite the same - just a bunch of blacklisting? | 22:19 |
| bluesabre | (technically it installs all the packages, then removes, but whatever) | 22:19 |
| ochosi | urgh | 22:20 |
| flocculant | mmm | 22:20 |
| ochosi | so it really misses the point of a minimal install from my pov | 22:20 |
| flocculant | ochosi: I'd agree | 22:20 |
| ochosi | that's like passing an apt-get remove shell-script when you first start your session | 22:20 |
| bluesabre | Yup | 22:20 |
| ochosi | if the iso isn't smaller and the diskspace needed to complete the installation successfully, what's the point? | 22:21 |
| ochosi | (a nor is missing there) | 22:21 |
| ochosi | so while i usually agree with you, i'm not sure this helps people a lot bluesabre | 22:22 |
| bluesabre | Just starting out with fewer installed packages. The diskspace savings is probably not substantial enough that it would be a different disk or partition, so that's not really the concern. | 22:22 |
| flocculant | well | 22:22 |
| bluesabre | Indeed. | 22:22 |
| flocculant | for those people that want a minimal setup - the work's done for them? | 22:22 |
| bluesabre | Yeah | 22:23 |
| bluesabre | It's the core experience once the install's done | 22:23 |
| ochosi | still feels misleading to call that minimal, but i guess if people are used to this from the other flavors... | 22:23 |
| bluesabre | And it means 1 or 2 ISOs to test instead of 2 or 4 | 22:23 |
| flocculant | not getting drawn into that one ... | 22:23 |
| bluesabre | :D | 22:24 |
| flocculant | anyway - given there are just us - mailing list? | 22:24 |
| bluesabre | So yeah, probably another thing to send off for vote. | 22:24 |
| ochosi | yeah, probably | 22:24 |
| ochosi | although the benefit needs to be clarified from my pov | 22:24 |
| flocculant | yea | 22:24 |
| ochosi | we get potentially more stuff to test | 22:24 |
| flocculant | #chair bluesabre | 22:25 |
| meetingology | Current chairs: bluesabre flocculant | 22:25 |
| * bluesabre sits | 22:25 | |
| flocculant | so you can do stuff | 22:25 |
| ochosi | and users get a minimal setup, but only after providing enough diskspace | 22:25 |
| flocculant | #chair ochosi | 22:25 |
| meetingology | Current chairs: bluesabre flocculant ochosi | 22:25 |
| * ochosi bows | 22:25 | |
| flocculant | cos how can ignore ochosi :) | 22:25 |
| flocculant | who even | 22:25 |
| bluesabre | #action bluesabre to mail the list to vote on minimal install ubiquity option | 22:25 |
| meetingology | ACTION: bluesabre to mail the list to vote on minimal install ubiquity option | 22:25 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Orage | 22:26 |
| flocculant | there's been some talk in channel about this | 22:26 |
| bluesabre | Anything beyond "I don't use that"? | 22:26 |
| flocculant | with some people not even sure we seeded it still :p | 22:26 |
| ochosi | hehe | 22:27 |
| ochosi | well i'm all for dropping it | 22:27 |
| pleia2 | I love orage | 22:27 |
| flocculant | ^^ was ochosi I think :) | 22:27 |
| ochosi | rly? | 22:27 |
| pleia2 | how else would I get 4 timezones in my panel? | 22:27 |
| ochosi | pleia2: well it's good to hear ppl disagreeing, because i have a very clear opinion on it... | 22:27 |
| flocculant | ochosi: I thought so ? | 22:27 |
| flocculant | anyway | 22:28 |
| ochosi | pleia2: wait, that's it..? the regular panel clock plugin can do that too... | 22:28 |
| pleia2 | the regular clock app has gotten better, I guess | 22:28 |
| flocculant | I'm not all that worried either way - but if there are dev reasons to drop it | 22:28 |
| ochosi | i thought you were using the ical stuff | 22:28 |
| pleia2 | didn't use to allow you to do some of the custom things, but now that it does maybe I'll give it a chance and report back ;) | 22:28 |
| ochosi | the ical support (with an incredibly crappy UI) and the unmaintained codebase is all orage has over the regular clock plugin | 22:29 |
| ochosi | the clock plugin even has a format validator now ;) | 22:29 |
| ochosi | anyway, if you find a feature (apart from ical) that is in orage but not the clock lemme know | 22:29 |
| pleia2 | actually, clock seems to do what I need now :) | 22:29 |
| pleia2 | carry on! | 22:30 |
| ochosi | :) | 22:30 |
| bluesabre | :) | 22:30 |
| pleia2 | we should warn people though (release notes?) in case they're in my boat | 22:30 |
| ochosi | so i'd like to propose to drop orage from our default install | 22:30 |
| ochosi | we can keep it in the repos as a package, but just not install it by default | 22:30 |
| pleia2 | sgtm | 22:30 |
| ochosi | pleia2: if they have it installed and upgrade it'll be retained anyway | 22:30 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 22:30 |
| ochosi | so not sure what to warn people about | 22:30 |
| ochosi | apart from "Warning: The regular clock plugin can do anything you did with orage before!" | 22:31 |
| bluesabre | lol | 22:31 |
| pleia2 | when I do a new install I automatically was using orage | 22:31 |
| flocculant | would it not just be in the release notes - this 'package' not there anymore | 22:31 |
| flocculant | ? | 22:31 |
| bluesabre | (yes) | 22:31 |
| ochosi | yup | 22:31 |
| pleia2 | ochosi: that's fine :) | 22:31 |
| flocculant | so if people used it - they'd read the notes (of course) then install it | 22:32 |
| ochosi | yup | 22:32 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 22:32 |
| * flocculant wasn't at all sarcastic | 22:32 | |
| pleia2 | :P | 22:32 |
| ochosi | thing is, i'd rather not ship stuff by default that is unmaintained | 22:32 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 22:32 |
| ochosi | (last release 4yrs ago) | 22:32 |
| flocculant | agreed | 22:32 |
| flocculant | and we're almost quorum | 22:32 |
| flocculant | sigh | 22:32 |
| ochosi | plus, it's one of the few remaining gtk2 plugins in xfce | 22:33 |
| bluesabre | Suppose I could address that | 22:33 |
| brainwash | but isn't Orage a calendar application? | 22:33 |
| ochosi | brainwash: yes, but a rather bad one | 22:34 |
| brainwash | so, maybe there is a need for a replacement | 22:35 |
| ochosi | partly because it uses the (unmaintained) gtkcalendar widget that really doesn't work well for calendars | 22:35 |
| ochosi | doesn't thunderbird partly do that? | 22:36 |
| brainwash | it could be that an offline calendar is not needed anymore | 22:37 |
| ochosi | (doesn't use desktop calendars or mail clients in ages) | 22:37 |
| bluesabre | We can take it to vote, and if we drop, it can be restored based on user feedback | 22:37 |
| ochosi | yeah | 22:37 |
| flocculant | shall we perhaps do a quick vote on this now - and then push that to ml for people to ignore? | 22:37 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: right | 22:37 |
| bluesabre | thunderbird's lightning plugin is not installed by default, but reasonably could be | 22:37 |
| flocculant | I used that once upon a time | 22:38 |
| flocculant | it was painful - though it was some time ago | 22:38 |
| flocculant | woot | 22:38 |
| flocculant | oops | 22:38 |
| bluesabre | :D | 22:38 |
| flocculant | so vote here now - or just ml it? | 22:38 |
| ochosi | personally i'd only go for alternatives if ppl ask for it | 22:38 |
| ochosi | maybe it's really not needed | 22:38 |
| bluesabre | yup | 22:38 |
| ochosi | i'd vote here | 22:38 |
| flocculant | #voters flocculant bluesabre ochosi pleia2 | 22:39 |
| meetingology | Current voters: bluesabre flocculant ochosi pleia2 | 22:39 |
| flocculant | #vote Remove Orage from seed | 22:40 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: Remove Orage from seed | 22:40 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) | 22:40 |
| bluesabre | +1 | 22:40 |
| meetingology | +1 received from bluesabre | 22:40 |
| flocculant | +1 | 22:40 |
| meetingology | +1 received from flocculant | 22:40 |
| ochosi | +1 | 22:40 |
| meetingology | +1 received from ochosi | 22:40 |
| flocculant | pleia2: ? | 22:41 |
| pleia2 | +1 | 22:42 |
| meetingology | +1 received from pleia2 | 22:42 |
| flocculant | #endvote | 22:42 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: Remove Orage from seed | 22:42 |
| meetingology | Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 | 22:42 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 22:42 |
| flocculant | do we go with that then - or carry it over to ml | 22:42 |
| ochosi | i'd inform ppl on the ML | 22:43 |
| ochosi | we'll at least see if there is a big outcry that way | 22:43 |
| flocculant | #action flocculant to note to ml | 22:43 |
| meetingology | ACTION: flocculant to note to ml | 22:43 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Add Apturl to seed | 22:43 |
| flocculant | this is something I always wondered about | 22:44 |
| ochosi | yeah, i'd say why not? | 22:44 |
| flocculant | I think Unit193 had some reservations about it | 22:44 |
| bluesabre | Doesn't seem like it would hurt, and would generally improve user experience | 22:44 |
| flocculant | mmh | 22:44 |
| * flocculant check the pad | 22:45 | |
| flocculant | wasn't there - maybe it was in channel. something about being out of sync with debian ? | 22:46 |
| flocculant | p'raps | 22:46 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: would that sound right? | 22:46 |
| bluesabre | It'd just be a part of our seed. I think Unit193 had some reservations, but wasn't specific. | 22:47 |
| flocculant | mmm | 22:47 |
| bluesabre | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptURL for folks reading along | 22:47 |
| ochosi | yeah, i read that a few mins ago | 22:47 |
| ochosi | i felt it's unproblematic | 22:47 |
| bluesabre | Could be used in our docs too if we wanted | 22:48 |
| flocculant | well - I'd like to get as many things dealt with tonight as possible, but if someone in team had reservations I think we should take it to ml | 22:48 |
| flocculant | ? thoughts | 22:48 |
| bluesabre | Agreed | 22:48 |
| ochosi | k | 22:48 |
| flocculant | #action flocculant to mail list re adding Apturl to seed | 22:49 |
| meetingology | ACTION: flocculant to mail list re adding Apturl to seed | 22:49 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Adding GIMP to seed | 22:49 |
| flocculant | from my pov - we took this out because space | 22:49 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 22:49 |
| flocculant | we now have space - I'd just add it back | 22:49 |
| ochosi | +1 | 22:50 |
| bluesabre | We shipped GIMP in Xubuntu until Wily Werewolf due to space concerns | 22:50 |
| ochosi | i always install gimp | 22:50 |
| pleia2 | it's one of the first things I install | 22:50 |
| bluesabre | Same | 22:50 |
| bluesabre | Probably the same for a lot of folks | 22:50 |
| bluesabre | It's pretty ubiquitous | 22:50 |
| flocculant | so I would do vote as before and report to list | 22:50 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: wow, you still remember when we removed it..? holy crap! | 22:50 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: had to research that recently | 22:50 |
| ochosi | oh ok :) | 22:50 |
| flocculant | I don't remember when - I do remember us doing it | 22:50 |
| * bluesabre has had a simmering rage since Wily | 22:50 | |
| flocculant | #vote Add Gimp to seed | 22:50 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: Add Gimp to seed | 22:50 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) | 22:50 |
| bluesabre | +1 | 22:51 |
| meetingology | +1 received from bluesabre | 22:51 |
| flocculant | +1 | 22:51 |
| meetingology | +1 received from flocculant | 22:51 |
| pleia2 | +1 | 22:51 |
| meetingology | +1 received from pleia2 | 22:51 |
| ochosi | +1 | 22:51 |
| meetingology | +1 received from ochosi | 22:51 |
| flocculant | #endvote | 22:52 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: Add Gimp to seed | 22:52 |
| meetingology | Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 | 22:52 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 22:52 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Add Libreoffice Impress to see | 22:52 |
| flocculant | #undo | 22:52 |
| meetingology | Removing item from minutes: SUBTOPIC | 22:52 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Add Libreoffice Impress to seed | 22:52 |
| flocculant | this was me | 22:52 |
| ochosi | hm, i mean i install it too by default now, but only because i need it at work | 22:53 |
| ochosi | at home i really never open impress | 22:53 |
| pleia2 | I always install that too | 22:53 |
| flocculant | given that we no longer are quite so worried about seed size - I'd like to add this in with the other Libreoffice things we do - seems silly to not have it | 22:53 |
| ochosi | but i can imagine many ppl need it | 22:53 |
| bluesabre | I have no complaints about including it, and folks have asked for it for years | 22:54 |
| ochosi | flocculant: any clue how much space it adds approx? | 22:54 |
| flocculant | ochosi: adding it to live session > https://pasteboard.co/HMojyQ9.png | 22:54 |
| ochosi | right, that seems ok | 22:54 |
| flocculant | I did that a while back when I added it to the pad | 22:54 |
| flocculant | I got lost near Haytor in the fog | 22:55 |
| flocculant | oops | 22:55 |
| bluesabre | :D | 22:55 |
| ochosi | oh, you did? :D | 22:55 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 22:55 |
| ochosi | or did you get lost in all your channel tabs..? | 22:55 |
| * flocculant spits tea at the screen - again | 22:55 | |
| flocculant | ochosi: :p | 22:56 |
| brainwash | it seems to pull in libreoffice draw also | 22:56 |
| knome | a wild knome suddenly appears [N/E/S/W]? | 22:56 |
| flocculant | brainwash: yea | 22:56 |
| ochosi | knome: oh wow, now we have to take all the votes again :'D | 22:56 |
| knome | nah | 22:56 |
| bluesabre | we can really get things done now | 22:56 |
| knome | as long as you make ML threads i can just disagree with you there ;) | 22:56 |
| brainwash | is Draw needed? | 22:56 |
| ochosi | not sure if adding it to the seed also installs all recommends | 22:57 |
| ochosi | but apt does that by default now | 22:57 |
| ochosi | (in ubuntu) | 22:57 |
| flocculant | brainwash: not sure - didn't dig that far | 22:57 |
| pleia2 | meh draw | 22:57 |
| knome | doesn't draw bring in all the (surprise) drawing stuff like vectors? | 22:57 |
| bluesabre | brainwash: yes, https://packages.ubuntu.com/cosmic/libreoffice-impress | 22:57 |
| pleia2 | I think because people embed draw things in impress slides | 22:58 |
| knome | yes | 22:58 |
| brainwash | "Design powerful and intuitive flowcharts with Draw." | 22:59 |
| brainwash | looks useful | 22:59 |
| knome | if everybody else ships draw with impress, wouldn't it potentially create one of those "but xubuntu is worse because even drawing stuff doesn't work!" -like sentiments | 22:59 |
| flocculant | right | 22:59 |
| knome | if we have space/motivation to bring in impress, bring in draw as well | 23:00 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 23:00 |
| * flocculant makes note not to add knome to voter list - because interminable talking :D | 23:00 | |
| bluesabre | it's a package depend, impress brings it without question | 23:00 |
| flocculant | #voters knome | 23:00 |
| meetingology | Current voters: bluesabre flocculant knome ochosi pleia2 | 23:00 |
| knome | ;)= | 23:00 |
| ochosi | brainwash: it's the visio counterpart | 23:00 |
| knome | bluesabre, unless we blacklist it :P | 23:00 |
| bluesabre | does that work for depends? | 23:00 |
| knome | but yes, i wasn't advocating for that anyway | 23:00 |
| knome | i have no idea, let's not figure out? | 23:01 |
| bluesabre | fine | 23:01 |
| * bluesabre breaks something else | 23:01 | |
| knome | woohoo! | 23:01 |
| flocculant | good chap | 23:01 |
| brainwash | so, this would result in having the full libreoffice suite installed I'd think | 23:01 |
| knome | no base? | 23:01 |
| knome | the database thing | 23:02 |
| brainwash | ohh | 23:02 |
| bluesabre | yeah, don't need that | 23:02 |
| bluesabre | :D | 23:02 |
| knome | or is it pulled by something | 23:02 |
| flocculant | yea - it doesn't add the database - just whats in the screenie | 23:02 |
| ochosi | let's vote? | 23:04 |
| * bluesabre votes to vote | 23:04 | |
| knome | sure. | 23:04 |
| flocculant | #vote Add LibreOffice Impress to seed | 23:05 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: Add LibreOffice Impress to seed | 23:05 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) | 23:05 |
| flocculant | +1 | 23:05 |
| meetingology | +1 received from flocculant | 23:05 |
| knome | +0 | 23:05 |
| meetingology | +0 received from knome | 23:05 |
| pleia2 | +1 | 23:05 |
| meetingology | +1 received from pleia2 | 23:05 |
| bluesabre | +1 | 23:05 |
| meetingology | +1 received from bluesabre | 23:05 |
| ochosi | +1 | 23:05 |
| meetingology | +1 received from ochosi | 23:05 |
| ochosi | it's so great to have knome around for the voting | 23:06 |
| knome | i know... | 23:06 |
| ochosi | :D | 23:06 |
| bluesabre | even when he abstains :| | 23:06 |
| bluesabre | (meant to be :P) | 23:06 |
| flocculant | better the devil you know | 23:06 |
| flocculant | #endvote | 23:07 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: Add LibreOffice Impress to seed | 23:07 |
| meetingology | Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 | 23:07 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 23:07 |
| ochosi | uhm, gnome software, oh noes | 23:07 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Status update on GNOME Software / alternatives? | 23:07 |
| flocculant | so | 23:07 |
| bluesabre | so | 23:07 |
| flocculant | I hate this still | 23:07 |
| ochosi | i think gnome software isn't great, but the alternatives also aren't | 23:07 |
| flocculant | and still refuse to use it :p | 23:07 |
| ochosi | synaptic is still unmaintained | 23:07 |
| flocculant | synaptic works fine - it's just not pretty - and I don't buy stuff | 23:07 |
| ochosi | and unchanged | 23:07 |
| knome | but it's still around | 23:08 |
| flocculant | better maintained than before I believe | 23:08 |
| ochosi | knome: orage is also still around :p | 23:08 |
| knome | but synaptic works, right? :P | 23:08 |
| bluesabre | it does | 23:08 |
| flocculant | yep | 23:08 |
| bluesabre | and sometimes gnome-software does not | 23:08 |
| brainwash | gnome-software has snaps and firmware updates | 23:08 |
| brainwash | that's pretty nice | 23:08 |
| bluesabre | it does have that going for it | 23:08 |
| flocculant | I did look for the mate one - but I think that's now a snap | 23:08 |
| knome | i really really don't like gnome-software (that's to say, i don't hate it either, but i don't like it), but i don't use even synaptic any more, so... | 23:09 |
| brainwash | bluesabre: and it uses appdata, another plus | 23:09 |
| bluesabre | had to patch for that recently, after folks removed exo and killed their xfce | 23:09 |
| flocculant | I don't think we're going to get very far with this discussion | 23:10 |
| flocculant | again | 23:10 |
| bluesabre | indeed | 23:10 |
| brainwash | personally, my main concern with gnome-software is that it keeps running in the background after "closing" it | 23:10 |
| ochosi | yeah | 23:10 |
| bluesabre | it's one of those things... there's no great options, so the status quo just persists | 23:10 |
| ochosi | that's one thing i also dislike | 23:10 |
| flocculant | brainwash: right | 23:10 |
| brainwash | which is a bit over 100MB | 23:10 |
| knome | when i last used it, it was sluggish when ran too :/ | 23:11 |
| ochosi | i remember before gnome software we were unhappy with ubuntu-software | 23:11 |
| flocculant | one I didn't like was it leaving things behind - but I think that's been SRU'd now | 23:11 |
| ochosi | so "yay" | 23:11 |
| knome | ochosi, indeed | 23:11 |
| ochosi | i'm just not motivated enough, but if i had the time and motivation i'd probably just do a proper UI for synaptic and use that instead | 23:11 |
| flocculant | ochosi: ack - but moving because we had to just added different issues | 23:11 |
| ochosi | (how hard can that be) | 23:12 |
| flocculant | quite | 23:12 |
| flocculant | I couldn't do it :D | 23:12 |
| ochosi | i think two afternoons of work for two people | 23:12 |
| bluesabre | uh oh | 23:12 |
| brainwash | but that's only the UI | 23:12 |
| flocculant | or 2 years if one was me | 23:12 |
| brainwash | features will be still missing | 23:13 |
| ochosi | i know | 23:13 |
| flocculant | I think the issue is the paid stuff and snaps | 23:13 |
| ochosi | doesn't it also handle flatpak? | 23:13 |
| ochosi | or is that only outside ubuntu | 23:13 |
| bluesabre | So, it's feeling like we keep gnome-software for now for lack of anything "better" | 23:13 |
| brainwash | don't forget that the Gnome project will keep improving -software | 23:13 |
| bluesabre | flatpak can be enabled easily | 23:14 |
| bluesabre | the various backends are plugins | 23:14 |
| ochosi | anyway, i think we can leave the discussion there. as bluesabre and others mentioned, we won't get further | 23:14 |
| flocculant | brainwash: 'improving' | 23:14 |
| flocculant | ok - works for me ochosi | 23:14 |
| brainwash | can't make it any worse :> | 23:15 |
| bluesabre | brainwash: shhhh | 23:15 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Replacing Light Locker with Xfce Screensaver | 23:15 |
| flocculant | I'm sure someone has loads to say about this :p | 23:15 |
| bluesabre | hi | 23:15 |
| flocculant | ohai | 23:15 |
| brainwash | it's good to have screensavers back | 23:16 |
| bluesabre | I've been working on a replacement for light-locker/gnome-screensaver/mate-screensaver/xscreensaver | 23:16 |
| bluesabre | And I'm happy to say my laptop turns on after I close and open the lid! :D | 23:16 |
| flocculant | that's good :) | 23:16 |
| ochosi | lol | 23:16 |
| ochosi | yeah, my only point is that if you think it's stable enough i'd include it | 23:17 |
| flocculant | what was the issue on the xfce list re that and /usr/lib (or somesuch) | 23:17 |
| ochosi | so that's all that depends on from my pov | 23:17 |
| bluesabre | A bit of info https://docs.xfce.org/apps/screensaver/start and https://bluesabre.org/2018/10/15/xfce-screensaver-0-1-0-released/ | 23:17 |
| flocculant | I'm waiting to see the results of the FIXED to the 2 bugs I found ochosi :) | 23:17 |
| ochosi | :) | 23:17 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: I think it's pretty stable as of the release I pushed out this morning, but I'd like to get it to the PPA for folks to kick the tires a bit | 23:18 |
| flocculant | so would I | 23:18 |
| flocculant | I assume that I could git it - but I don't want to unless I need too - I'd like a pretty relaxed 6 months this time :p | 23:19 |
| bluesabre | flocculant: link to the /usr/lib thing (or was this some time ago and the thing I fixed for OpenBSD)? | 23:19 |
| bluesabre | flocculant: and yeah, will have that packaged sometime this weekend | 23:19 |
| flocculant | aah yea OpenBSD | 23:20 |
| flocculant | that's the one | 23:20 |
| bluesabre | cool | 23:20 |
| bluesabre | Fixed | 23:20 |
| flocculant | and ok cool | 23:20 |
| bluesabre | And not us ;) | 23:20 |
| flocculant | \0/ | 23:20 |
| flocculant | :) | 23:20 |
| flocculant | anyway - as others are quiet I assume no problems so lets just vote | 23:21 |
| flocculant | #vote Replace LightLocker with Xfce Screensaver | 23:21 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: Replace LightLocker with Xfce Screensaver | 23:21 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) | 23:21 |
| flocculant | +1 | 23:21 |
| meetingology | +1 received from flocculant | 23:21 |
| pleia2 | +0 | 23:21 |
| meetingology | +0 received from pleia2 | 23:21 |
| knome | +1 as long as it is stable at release time | 23:21 |
| meetingology | +1 as long as it is stable at release time received from knome | 23:21 |
| bluesabre | Not really anything to vote on yet, it was more of an informational thing :D | 23:21 |
| pleia2 | :) | 23:21 |
| flocculant | I hatez you | 23:22 |
| bluesabre | +1 pending folks testing | 23:22 |
| meetingology | +1 pending folks testing received from bluesabre | 23:22 |
| ochosi | +1 as long as it is stable at release time | 23:22 |
| meetingology | +1 as long as it is stable at release time received from ochosi | 23:22 |
| flocculant | think we should still go for it anyway - regardless | 23:23 |
| flocculant | #enddvote | 23:24 |
| bluesabre | #endvote | 23:24 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: Replace LightLocker with Xfce Screensaver | 23:24 |
| meetingology | Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 | 23:24 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 23:24 |
| flocculant | #undo | 23:24 |
| meetingology | Removing item from minutes: INFO | 23:24 |
| knome | umm | 23:24 |
| knome | no? | 23:24 |
| flocculant | that was close | 23:24 |
| bluesabre | interesting | 23:24 |
| knome | you can't remove false commands | 23:24 |
| knome | and votes either, i think | 23:24 |
| flocculant | never mind | 23:24 |
| flocculant | couldn't find it in the manual knome :p | 23:25 |
| bluesabre | :) | 23:25 |
| knome | heh | 23:25 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Applying Xubuntu defaults to commonly used apps (Plank, others) | 23:25 |
| flocculant | ok | 23:25 |
| flocculant | so as much as I like the idea | 23:25 |
| * knome grins at the thought of an automatic knome | 23:25 | |
| flocculant | I'm dead against it | 23:25 |
| bluesabre | oh? | 23:25 |
| flocculant | you give me a list - and I'll give you another | 23:26 |
| knome | if we have people to *maintain* those defaults... | 23:26 |
| flocculant | we will never please people here | 23:26 |
| flocculant | right - well one of mine uses Qt | 23:26 |
| bluesabre | that's true | 23:26 |
| knome | the idea is to make them integrate well with xubuntu, right? | 23:26 |
| bluesabre | yeah | 23:26 |
| knome | and explicitly for the appearance-related things, to look like xubuntu | 23:27 |
| bluesabre | Yep | 23:27 |
| flocculant | right | 23:27 |
| flocculant | so - Qt doesn't | 23:27 |
| bluesabre | Like the Xubuntu Light theme in gedit, GTK theme for Plank, etc | 23:27 |
| knome | so if we change some stuff in default settings/apps, then those changes should be migrated to the "commonly used app" defaults too | 23:27 |
| flocculant | I do like the idea | 23:27 |
| knome | i don't mind shipping an "incomplete" list of default settings with xubuntu | 23:28 |
| flocculant | but I don't see how we can do this - without getting a load of whataboutery | 23:28 |
| knome | what i mind more is shipping stuff that isn't really "xubuntu" with xubuntu | 23:28 |
| knome | if people complain about missing support for $my_favorite_thing, we can invite them to collaborate | 23:28 |
| bluesabre | but I do see the concern about it balooning | 23:29 |
| knome | sure, but then again all defaults we ship for non-default apps is just extra | 23:29 |
| flocculant | knome: I know the pov - but fix it if you want - I just don't like that | 23:29 |
| knome | like likerally, it's extra service we offer | 23:30 |
| flocculant | or don't | 23:30 |
| flocculant | that's the question isn't it | 23:30 |
| bluesabre | yeah, basically the reason for the agenda item | 23:30 |
| knome | the only potentially negative side is if these defaults somehow mess up user customizations | 23:30 |
| knome | so we set a default for X to be Y and the user wants X to be Z... but can't because a default is shipped | 23:31 |
| ochosi | we already do ship some of this stuff | 23:31 |
| ochosi | like the compton config | 23:31 |
| knome | i know that's not how defaults work - but it's not really "defaults" as much as "globals" for some things | 23:31 |
| ochosi | it's mostly a question of whether we want to extend that | 23:31 |
| knome | if we have creators, why not? | 23:31 |
| ochosi | plus, plank already is supported by greybird, it's just not configured | 23:31 |
| flocculant | see | 23:31 |
| knome | i wouldn't put the limited work hour artwork team to work on stuff like this | 23:32 |
| flocculant | I'd like Cantata to look ok in Xubuntu | 23:32 |
| bluesabre | flocculant: Is Cantata a qt app? | 23:32 |
| flocculant | yea | 23:32 |
| flocculant | it looks ok'ish with the Qt5 thingy | 23:32 |
| bluesabre | I was planning to have a one-click "make qt apps look less bad" in the xubuntu tweak item | 23:33 |
| flocculant | but it looks out of place - but I put up with it - because I'm me and not xubuntu-art :) | 23:33 |
| flocculant | right | 23:33 |
| knome | bluesabre, any reason why that click can't be automated? | 23:33 |
| bluesabre | knome: basically because the qt5-styles-plugin brings in a lot of qt things that probably shouldn't be in iso | 23:34 |
| knome | ah yes that | 23:34 |
| knome | anyway, let's stick to subject for now... | 23:34 |
| bluesabre | yeah | 23:34 |
| flocculant | point | 23:35 |
| knome | so to repeat myself and to clarify: if we have the creators (and maintainers) for these additional default stuffs, i'd happily support including them | 23:35 |
| flocculant | given that this was Spass's thing - and he's of late been trying to be involved - I'd like to move this to the ml - even if he can't vote | 23:35 |
| bluesabre | certainly | 23:36 |
| knome | even to the point that i could do some "reviews" on the stuff (given time etc. permits) and help them become more "xubuntu" | 23:36 |
| flocculant | knome: ack | 23:36 |
| flocculant | #action flocculant to mail list re applying Xubuntu defaults to various apps | 23:39 |
| meetingology | ACTION: flocculant to mail list re applying Xubuntu defaults to various apps | 23:39 |
| bluesabre | cool | 23:39 |
| ochosi | guys, i gotta go in 3mins | 23:39 |
| ochosi | so maybe just a brief comment on the last agenda item | 23:39 |
| flocculant | ochosi: okey doke - you had comments on the last I think | 23:40 |
| flocculant | #subtopic Developing "Xubuntu Tweak" | 23:40 |
| flocculant | ochosi: so if you want to warble now on your pov | 23:40 |
| ochosi | this may be a pet project of "someone" (not looking at you, bluesabre), but i really think we have more important tasks - even if it would be nice to get something like that *i guess* | 23:40 |
| ochosi | e.g. getting the panel prefs dialogs HIG aligned ;) | 23:41 |
| knome | my gut reaction is "oh god don't call it anything *tweak*" | 23:41 |
| ochosi | so in general i think we're really closing in on xfce 4.14 and i'd rather focus on that then develop new downstream stuff | 23:41 |
| bluesabre | I suggest it as a tool to easily apply current defaults (say you've upgraded all the same way from dapper and make everything feel cosmic) | 23:41 |
| bluesabre | Or applying easy fixes, "MY QT5 looks bad" | 23:41 |
| ochosi | yeah right, sounds like a dirty python app :p | 23:42 |
| bluesabre | Yes | 23:42 |
| pleia2 | I have to step away for family things | 23:42 |
| knome | pleia2, o/ | 23:42 |
| ochosi | just sayin, it may also end up being time consuming with bugfixes and people adding stuff to the wishlist | 23:42 |
| knome | and ochosi p/ | 23:42 |
| bluesabre | It wouldn't be a pretty thing, it'd be scripty | 23:42 |
| bluesabre | yeah | 23:42 |
| ochosi | and it's not a bad idea, just not a very high-prio one | 23:42 |
| ochosi | from my pov | 23:42 |
| bluesabre | Right, that's fair | 23:42 |
| ochosi | but who am i to tell anyone else what to do with their free time ;) | 23:42 |
| bluesabre | Might be a future release thing after 4.14 | 23:43 |
| bluesabre | But wanted to get the idea out there | 23:43 |
| knome | ...and it doesn't get my support either if its name has the word "tweak" in it :P | 23:43 |
| ochosi | lol | 23:43 |
| ochosi | yeah, tbh i'd personally rather do something like an xfce profile manager | 23:43 |
| knome | rather "the xubuntu winkywonky tool" | 23:43 |
| bluesabre | "Xubuntu Repair & Adjustment Tool Box" | 23:43 |
| bluesabre | lol | 23:43 |
| ochosi | that would be an upstream thing that combines display profiles, panel profiles, and practically all other settings | 23:44 |
| knome | +1 for the profile manager, the name sounds 100× more professional as well | 23:44 |
| ochosi | anyway, those were my 2cents | 23:44 |
| bluesabre | Yeah, it could do everything that didn't need package-y things | 23:44 |
| bluesabre | thanks ochosi | 23:44 |
| ochosi | https://git.xfce.org/archive/xfce4-profile-manager/ | 23:44 |
| ochosi | :> | 23:44 |
| bluesabre | but yeah, just an idea for now | 23:44 |
| ochosi | (yeah, obviously not a new idea) | 23:44 |
| knome | could we do a quick fix for this with some blog articles etc? | 23:45 |
| bluesabre | ochosi: clearly an old idea | 23:45 |
| bluesabre | 2011 | 23:45 |
| bluesabre | :O | 23:45 |
| knome | well not fix, more like a workaround | 23:45 |
| ochosi | yeah, i worked on it with stephan at some point | 23:45 |
| ochosi | knome: yeah, FAQs help | 23:45 |
| ochosi | we can even add the one-liner that "fixes your QT5 apps" | 23:45 |
| ochosi | to the FAQ | 23:45 |
| bluesabre | I'd be happy with FAQs | 23:45 |
| ochosi | so it becomes a copy-paste job | 23:45 |
| bluesabre | with apturl it becomes a click | 23:45 |
| bluesabre | :D | 23:45 |
| ochosi | lol | 23:46 |
| ochosi | indeed | 23:46 |
| knome | either or, we can do both | 23:46 |
| ochosi | alrighty, night everyone! | 23:46 |
| knome | nighty ochosi | 23:46 |
| bluesabre | nighty ochosi, thanks for dropping by! | 23:46 |
| flocculant | ochosi: night - thanks :) | 23:46 |
| flocculant | ok - so are we going to get anywhere with this tonight - because it's now 23:47 | 23:47 |
| flocculant | :p | 23:47 |
| knome | you're wrong | 23:47 |
| knome | it's 01:47 | 23:47 |
| bluesabre | flocculant: I have nothing more to say about the tweak app, it's not going to be a disco thing, too much other stuff to do :) | 23:47 |
| flocculant | furriner | 23:47 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: ok | 23:47 |
| flocculant | lets table that then | 23:48 |
| knome | i think the "only" action item is that we should write blog stuff on things that the tool would take care of -- so people can get on with it already | 23:48 |
| bluesabre | that seems fair | 23:48 |
| bluesabre | #nick xubuntu-team | 23:49 |
| knome | the drafting part likely falls for bluesabre since he has an idea of the things that should be easier | 23:49 |
| flocculant | #action knome to look at making some inroads in to helping users with tweaks - via whatever media he chooses | 23:49 |
| meetingology | ACTION: knome to look at making some inroads in to helping users with tweaks - via whatever media he chooses | 23:49 |
| knome | but i can definitely help on the proofreading, figuring out how to publish etc. | 23:49 |
| flocculant | #topic AOB | 23:49 |
| flocculant | anyone got anything else ? | 23:49 |
| bluesabre | nothing from me | 23:50 |
| flocculant | I guess at some point we should talk about the pad - but I'm losing the will to live tonight | 23:50 |
| knome | not that it comes as a surprise, but i might continue keeping on a bit quieter this cycle as well... | 23:50 |
| flocculant | yup | 23:50 |
| knome | you can always reach me via email or pinging at IRC though | 23:50 |
| knome | and i will very likely reply within 24 hours | 23:50 |
| knome | -- and please, don't hesitate to ask if you have anything | 23:51 |
| flocculant | and I'm trying to peg back - though I'm always reachable and will do the bare minimum where needed, really would prefer to be looking more Xfce now | 23:51 |
| flocculant | #topic Schedule next meeting | 23:51 |
| flocculant | da duh duh ... | 23:51 |
| flocculant | it is still | 23:51 |
| knome | it's so much easier to help with direct requests than try to figure out something sensible to start working yourself... | 23:51 |
| flocculant | slickymaster's | 23:51 |
| flocculant | go to run the next one | 23:51 |
| knome | just skip him | 23:51 |
| flocculant | #endmeeting | 23:51 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended Fri Nov 23 23:51:51 2018 UTC. | 23:51 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-11-23-22.01.moin.txt | 23:51 |
| knome | :P | 23:51 |
| bluesabre | lol | 23:51 |
| bluesabre | thanks flocculant, that was a productive meeting! | 23:52 |
| flocculant | phew - night all - and thanks - we actually got some results \0/ | 23:52 |
| knome | thanks flocculant, bluesabre, ochosi, brainwash | 23:52 |
| flocculant | bluesabre: yea | 23:52 |
| knome | oh and pleia2 ofc | 23:52 |
| knome | free pings for everyone | 23:52 |
| knome | discord loses the fun when you can just go @everyone on a channel :( | 23:52 |
| flocculant | cya soon | 23:53 |
| bluesabre | :) | 23:53 |
| bluesabre | knome: the spam bots do it all the time | 23:53 |
| knome | hah | 23:53 |
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