[00:00]  * wxl ponders the fact that "either/or" is ambiguous
 Hi, I installed Lubunru 1810 and I realized that if after installation we remove packages like about-lxqt and Qlipper through Discovery and then we do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade && sudo apt-get autoremove are removed only the packages libncursesw5 libtinfo5 lxqt-about-l10n but if we remove about-lxqt and qlipper th
[00:00] <moniker--> hmm didn't work with parenthetical value
[00:01] <wxl> moniker--: it certainly should. not sure what to say
[00:02] <wxl> @JyotiGomes one is a "software center" and one is a "package manager." The package manager acts exactly like other package managers. It would remove all the stuff, too.
[00:02] <moniker--> wxl is it xinput set-prop or set-props
[00:03] <wxl> moniker--: manpage says set-prop. my bad.
[00:03] <wxl> it's also list-props.
[00:03] <moniker--> ok i corrected that and got badaccess (attempt to access private resource denied)
[00:03] <wxl> i think that was the confusion, though it makes sense. you set one property at a time but you show all properties
[00:04] <moniker--> do i need sudo?
[00:04] <moniker--> sudo su
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes one is a "software center" and one is a "package manager." The …], I thought this would happen if I chose the option to eliminate an application but not when it happened I chose the option to just remove ...
[00:04] <wxl> you shouldn't. i just set something on my mouse and didn't need it.
[00:05] <wxl> you could try though
[00:06] <wxl> @JyotiGomes you should consider Discover kind of "dumb." it doesn't have all the features, but instead is meant to be easy to use. if you're really trying to remove a package and all its dependencies that are otherwise not needed, you wouldn't want to use it.
[00:07] <moniker--> it was my bad i used code for "Tapping Enabled Default (429)" instead for "Tapping Enabled (427)"
[00:07] <moniker--> *428
[00:07] <wxl> see, still making mistakes XD
[00:08] <moniker--> i see now why you don't like tap to click
[00:08] <moniker--> it has different functionality in lubuntu
[00:08] <wxl> oh?
[00:09] <moniker--> or at least i think it's different
[00:09] <moniker--> no maybe i'm wrong, i was thinking that first tap to click should only focus window without clicking inside it
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes one is a "software center" and one is a "package manager." The …], Does this mean that for the removal of applications that come with Lubuntu by default it is safe to use only discovery? But how safe is this removal? Is it okay to remove the libtinfo5 lxqt-about-l10n libncursesw5 packages after removing the
[00:12] <wxl> @JyotiGomes no. i'm saying that if you want to clean out everything as much as possible, DON'T use Discover. it's totally safe either way. autoremove won't remove things that you need for other things.
[00:13] <moniker--> natural scrolling is just opposite direction of normal scrolling so that when you slide with fingers upward on touchpad the screen scrolls up too instead of down which is normally the case because you are effectively shifting content up in that case
[00:14] <wxl> EW LIKE A MAC NO THANK YOU
[00:14]  * wxl curses it
[00:14] <moniker--> yeah doesn't seem very natural to me lol
[00:14] <wxl> i mean regardless of whether or not it makes logical sense, how long have we been doing it unnaturally???
 But after removing these about-lxqt and qlipper trough Moun and do a autoremove in terminal it were removed a lot of things that i used for other things and the entire Lubuntu desktop 😊
[00:15] <moniker--> so after i install lubuntu i just execute this command and it will remember?
[00:15] <wxl> it doesn't make sense that salmon swim upstream, but they do!!!!
[00:15] <wxl> @JyotiGomes you removed the index file for the lubuntu metapackage. that's different. you can't have parts of lubuntu and still have the metapackage. it would be incomplete.
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes no. i'm saying that if you want to clean out everything as muc …], But after removing these about-lxqt and qlipper apps trough Moun and do a autoremove in terminal it were removed a lot of things that i used for other things and the entire Lubuntu desktop 😊
[00:16] <wxl> moniker--: no, that's where you'll need to add it to an autostart sort of thing
[00:16] <moniker--> alright, when i get there, thx for all the help so far
[00:17] <wxl> np
[00:17] <moniker--> btw is it possible to have taskbar thumbnail previews in linux like windows 10 does it?
[00:17] <moniker--> when you mouse over taskbar items
[00:17] <wxl> i know of nothing like that yet
[00:17] <wxl> whether or not it will be added is a question, too
[00:17] <moniker--> speaking just for lubuntu or in general on linux?
[00:17] <wxl> for lxqt-panel specifically
 @JyotiGomes why you want to remove those packages? Do you need the space?
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes you removed the index file for the lubuntu metapackage. that's …], If i remove apps trough Discovery this will not implicate the remocion of the index file for the lubuntu metapackage as when doing this removal trough Moun?
[00:18] <wxl> and just keeping line with the lxqt goals of being light
[00:18] <wxl> but kubuntu certainly has it
[00:18] <moniker--> do you think KDE from ubuntu might have it and would KDE be much slower on this old laptop?
[00:18] <wxl> it will demand a little more out of your machine
[00:18] <moniker--> or kubuntu
[00:18] <moniker--> hmmm
[00:18] <wxl> at least i think it has it
[00:18] <moniker--> ok thx i might download and test it cost me nothing
[00:20] <wxl> btw preferences > lxqt settings > session settings > autostart
[00:20]  * wxl boots kubuntu vm
[00:21] <moniker--> and then add and type in command kk thx!
[00:21] <wxl> np
[00:22] <moniker--> i just read it can be done in xfce supposedly
[00:22] <moniker--> https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=11960
[00:22] <wxl> yeah i would expect it in kde. kind of shocked
[00:33] <moniker--> i've got around 30gb free space, but ill probably need some for XP, so how much you reckon is needed for lubuntu?
[00:33] <moniker--> is 15-20gb enough?
[00:37] <moniker--> wxl?
[00:41] <wxl> @JyotiGomes correct, because Discover does as little as possible
[00:41] <wxl> moniker--: sorry, work called.
[00:41] <moniker--> no probs
[00:41] <wxl> moniker--: i think that sounds good. you probably could get away with a minimum of 8gb but the more you have the better for you
[00:42] <moniker--> i just read there needs to be 3 partitions, is that correct? says one for OS at least 18gb then one for swap file and one for /home
[00:42] <moniker--> does installer create those automatically or do i need to manually create?
[00:42] <wxl> you can do a swap file which is standard for *buntu these days
[00:43] <wxl> it'll do it
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes correct, because Discover does as little as possible], I'm going to ask a rather silly question: since I've already removed the about-lxqt and qlipper from Moun on several computers but have not yet used autoremove on the terminal (which would lead to the removal of the index file for the lubuntu metapackage
[00:43] <moniker--> i dont wanna accidentally delete windows xp
[00:44] <wxl> @JyotiGomes never tried but my guess is you should reinstall them in Muon, uninstall them in Discover
[00:44] <wxl> moniker--: you won't, but backup if you can!!!!
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes never tried but my guess is you should reinstall them in Muon, …], Thank you. It's about ten school computers where I've done this removal through Moun and wanted to avoid having to reinstall Lubuntu all over again in all of them and do all the after-install tweeks again
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes never tried but my guess is you should reinstall them in Muon, …], I see that even though you are in a dialogue with other people about other topics, you have found time to respond to my strange questions 😊 Thank you for your availability.
[01:02] <wxl> @JyotiGomes happy to help :)
[01:11] <moniker--> wxl this laptop im setting is for father of a friend to browse the net in firefox... is lubuntu set it and forget it regarding updates, is it automatic or not?
[01:14] <wxl> moniker--: you can make it be
[01:14] <moniker--> im reading now by default it is off, right?
[01:14] <moniker--> "Lubuntu has automatic updates turned off by default, as on slower CPU's / Low RAM machines it can cause the user to think the machine has 'locked up' / 'hung' as it performs that task. "
[01:15] <moniker--> if updates are set to be automatic what happens if you are running firefox and it wants to update it?
 @JyotiGomes why you need to remove those packages?
[01:16] <wxl> yep
[01:17] <wxl> moniker--: you can look at it this way: the binary that's running is in memory. however, you can change the binary on disk and not affect memory. so you can make an update and not affect the running app
[01:17] <moniker--> really? i don't think windows can do that
[01:17] <wxl> yeah well
[01:17] <wxl> windows sucks XD
[01:17] <moniker--> there must be tradeoff for that feature :P
[01:17] <wxl> it means you're not running the latest version
[01:18] <moniker--> i was thinking more along the lines of some bugs/crashes
[01:18] <wxl> whereas windows would kind of force that
[01:18] <wxl> nope
[01:18] <moniker--> depending how the application is coded
[01:18] <wxl> i mean this is true with the kernel even
[01:18] <wxl> in fact the kernel is the only software that actually requires a reboot to start using a new version of (unless you use live kernel updates)
[01:19] <moniker--> hopefully in future even that will be worked around so no reboot will be necessary
[01:19] <wxl> see above
[01:19] <moniker--> it's only a matter of engineering it i think
[01:19] <wxl> live kernel updates
[01:19] <wxl> it's just not a default thing
[01:20] <wxl> but neither is zfs and it's clearly superior (our installer doesn't support it yet sigh)
[01:20] <moniker--> do you know by chance why on this pentium m is needed to add forcepae attribute
 @HMollerCl [@JyotiGomes why you need to remove those packages?], The true? Qlipper is a bit annoying and I do not use it and the about-lxqt I think should not be on the main level of the menu, it's a bit like a self-promotion (despite all the merit of the developers)
[01:20] <wxl> because of the architecture of that chip
[01:20] <wxl> !pae
[01:20] <wxl> @JyotiGomes they're both easily removed from the menus
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes they're both easily removed from the menus], Do you mean, change the place?
[01:22] <moniker--> i see so this pentium m has PAE capability but doesn't show PAE flag and that's why it has problems and OS needs to use forcepae
[01:22] <wxl> @JyotiGomes remove the .desktop files from /usr/share/applications and they don't show up in the menus
[01:22] <wxl> moniker--: something like that yes
 And you can remove autostart of qlipper
[01:23] <wxl> that too
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes remove the .desktop files from /usr/share/applications and the …], You mean that if sometime in future i want to show the about lxqt i can just call the app by terminal?
[01:25] <moniker--> kubuntu apparently dropped 32bit support in 18.10
[01:25] <wxl> @JyotiGomes yes. the .desktop files are for the menu. they're just pointers to the actual binaries
[01:26] <wxl> yeah and we just dropped support for the next version :(
[01:26] <moniker--> which is next version
[01:26] <wxl> 19.04
[01:26] <wxl> in april
[01:26] <moniker--> is there LTS version of lubuntu
[01:26] <wxl> you'll be able to upgrade but you won't be able to grab an iso
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes yes. the .desktop files are for the menu. they're just pointer …], Ok. I will reinstall them by Moun and keep them :-)
[01:26] <wxl> and when support runs outyou'll be kind of stuck
[01:27] <moniker--> but that's few years down the line no?
[01:27] <wxl> the .04s are the LTSes
[01:27] <wxl> yes
[01:27] <moniker--> so what you recommend then should i install 18.10 or 18.04
[01:27] <moniker--> lets
[01:27] <moniker--> lts
[01:27] <wxl> i'd do 18.10 personally. it's just nicer
[01:28] <moniker--> and via autoupdate it will go up to 19.04
[01:28] <moniker--> any previews of 19.04
 @HMollerCl [And you can remove autostart of qlipper], I will do that
[01:30] <moniker--> and last ubuntu 32 bit is 16.04.5?
 18.04 is for 32bits and lts
[01:33] <wxl[m]> Last 32 is 18.10
[01:33] <wxl[m]> There are daily images of 19.04
[02:22] <byter> Hi, I have a question about VPN on Lubuntu?
[02:26] <wxl[m]> byter feel free to ask
[05:12] <moniker--> wxm have you ever seen message at boot about "corrupted low memory" ?
[05:19] <moniker--> is there cpu profiling regarding frequency scaling in lubuntu?
 @tsimonq2 [It's one of the things I'll sit down and learn how to do, then implement it in S …], That means that who has Lubuntu 1810 installed will get this functionality through a simple update, correct?
[11:04] <moniker--> hmm lubuntu sometimes hangs on shutdown or reboot
[11:09] <moniker--> also installed lubuntu on hdd of laptop is so much slower to boot than livecd from usbkey :(
[11:09] <moniker--> like 2-3 times slower
[11:48] <guiverc> moniker--, some hdd's being slow can be signs of health issues; so I'd check your SMART health (on drive). eg. wdd green have long lives; and slow speed if drive errors are detected (to prevent errors they just slow as they 'correct' to avoid warranty-claims as warranty is not offered on speed, just continued function)
[11:59] <moniker--> guiverc it seems installer didn't create swap partition
[11:59] <moniker--> guiverc as i understand now swap partition is needed for hibernate to work?
[12:12] <guiverc> yes hibernate copies memory to swap (providing you have enough free swap to save memory). i always create my own partitions so aren't sure what swap is created by default (it varies possibly by version; later releases can create swap.file i believe)
[12:14] <moniker--> i shrank partition to create free space and in gparted created partition 2gb in size with file system linux-swap
 normal installation use swap files instead of partitions
[12:15] <moniker--> guiverc can you help me how do i activate it permanently so lubuntu uses swap partition
 Hibernation is highly unrecommended
[12:16] <moniker--> is there simple command to make lubuntu use the swap partition i just created?
 first, we must be surev you are not usig it
 in a terminal run: ... free -m
 an put the output here
[12:17] <moniker--> sec let me reboot into lubuntu
[12:17] <moniker--> i was in partedmagic.iso
 we also would need to see what the file /etc/fstab has
[12:20] <moniker--> so free -m says memory total is 1215 used 180 free 720 shared 25 buff/cache 314 available 859 and for swap all zeroes
[12:20] <moniker--> i dunno how you see this file /etc/fstab
[12:20] <moniker--> what is command?
 the easiest way is: ... cat /etc/fstab
 @moniker-- [<moniker--> so free -m says memory total is 1215 used 180 free 720 shared 25 buf …], so, its using swap file
[12:22] <moniker--> says UUID=<big number> / ext4 defai;ts - 1
[12:22] <moniker--> defaults*
 it says nothing about swap?
[12:23] <moniker--> says nothing about swap
 ok, you need to add a line there that tells the system where the swap is
 yo said you already had a swap partition right?
[12:24] <moniker--> ye i just created it in gparted 2gb with file system linux-swap
 you need to get the UUID of that partition
 I'm not sure hw to get it now
 we will have to look in internet
[12:25] <guiverc> thanks HMollerCl ,  try `sudo blkid |grep sda`  to get UUID of swap
 perfect
 here you can find the info on how to create the entry in fstab
 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fstab
[12:26] <moniker--> guiverc i got uuid
[12:27] <moniker--> it's /dev/sda3
 Here is a fstab with swap partition: ... # <device>                                <dir> <type> <options> <dump> <fsck> ... UUID=CBB6-24F2                            /boot vfat   defaults  0      2 ... UUID=0a3407de-014b-458b-b5c1-848e92a327a3 /     ext4   defaults  0      1 ... UUID=b411dc99-f0a0-4c87-9e05-184977be8539 /home ext4
[12:27] <moniker--> sda1 is winxp sda2 is lubuntu and sda3 is swap
 last line is the swap partition
 which lubuntu version you have?
[12:29] <moniker--> 18.10
[12:29] <moniker--> i dunno what is last line
[12:29] <moniker--> everything looks mangled
[12:30] <moniker--> ok this is last line "UUID=f9fe0b69-a280-415d-a03a-a32752370dee none  swap   defaults  0      0"
[12:30] <moniker--> and i just replace UUID with my UUID right?
 ok, then run this to create a backup of fstab before editing: ... cp /etc/fstab /etc/fstab.old
[12:30] <moniker--> now how do i edit this fstab
 (cp =copy)
[12:31] <moniker--> cannot, seems to require sudo or something
 maybe you need sudo privileges so: ... sudo cp /etc/fstab /etc/fstab.old
[12:31] <moniker--> done
 now: ... lxqt-sudo featherpad /etc/fstab
 that will open featherpad (text editor) with sudo priviliges
 and you woul need to add a line at the end similar to: UUID=f9fe0b69-a280-415d-a03a-a32752370dee none  swap   defaults  0      0" ... but with the UUID of your swap partition
[12:33] <moniker--> it opened but also gave me this output in terminal "QStandardPaths: wrong ownership on runtime directory /run/user/1000, 1000 instead of 0
[12:33] <moniker--> "
[12:33] <moniker--> that's not a problem is it?
 don' worry
[12:34] <moniker--> ok
[12:34] <moniker--> do spaces matter?
[12:34] <moniker--> or do i use tab key or what
[12:35] <moniker--> how do i know how much spaces between words and numbers
 same as the line you have above in your file
[12:36] <moniker--> ok it's 14 spaces between / and swap and 4 spaces between swap and defaults
[12:36] <moniker--> ok done
[12:36] <moniker--> now i save and that's it?
 there is one step needed
[12:37] <moniker--> is that it? do i need to reboot?
[12:37] <moniker--> ok im listening
 you could, but we can do it w/o reboot I think
[12:37] <moniker--> what is the last step
[12:37] <moniker--> i have to go sorry, i need to hurry
 mount -a
 or_
 sudo mount -a
 done?
 after that, run again free -m
[12:41] <moniker--> after doing that it still says swap 0 0 0
[12:41] <moniker--> maybe reboot is needed?
 could be
 reboot
[12:41] <moniker--> ok gonna reboot fast, and thanks for all the help
[12:41] <moniker--> i need to go to give this laptop away
 after reboot, free -m.
[12:42] <moniker--> it's for a father of a friend to browse the net in firefox
 that will not ensure yu can hibrnate
[12:42] <moniker--> i will
[12:42] <moniker--> well it was worth a shot
 you will have to run:
[12:42] <moniker--> everything else seems to work, sleep works
 sudo systemctl hibernate
 @JyotiGomes [That means that who has Lubuntu 1810 installed will get this functionality throu …], No
 and see what comes out
[12:43] <moniker--> free -m now shows swap 2057
[12:44] <moniker--> nice thx for the help
[12:44] <moniker--> hibernate seems to work too
[12:44] <moniker--> thx gotta goooo
[12:44] <moniker--> luv ya
 np
[16:50] <moniker--> i wanna thank all that helped me here with lubuntu... very nice lightweight OS that surprised me how well out of the box it worked
[21:14] <AuroraAvenue> Hiya Saw this toot.
[21:14] <AuroraAvenue> https://mastodon.technology/@lubuntu/101433938726964974
[21:14] <AuroraAvenue> not all set up here - but what channel is the meeting at today ?
[21:14] <wxl> hey there
[21:14] <wxl> #lubuntu-devel
[21:14] <AuroraAvenue> k
[21:14] <wxl> it should be in that link
[22:21] <AuroraAvenue> https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/1086025140973027329/photo/1
 @tsimonq2 [No], 😃
 Hello! A little doubt. When adding a new user (student) to Lubuntu 1810 I chose the name "student". Then I saw that it was better to have chosen another name. I can change the user name and even the user's home folder name. But is it also possible to change the name of the main group that this user belongs to?
[22:37] <wxl> @JyotiGoems yep it's all in the same place https://manual.lubuntu.me/3/3.2/3.2.15/users_and_groups.html
 Thanks
[22:41] <wxl> np
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGoems yep it's all in the same place https://manual.lubuntu.me/3/3.2 …], I have seen that after we change the user name and group, we have to enter "sudo pcmanfm-qt" and also change the name of the home folder to match the new user name and group