[08:27] <DarkTrick> Hello
[08:27] <knome> hello
[08:27] <DarkTrick> Is this the only channel for xubuntu?
[08:27] <knome> no
[08:28] <DarkTrick> I want to propose the usage of a new window theme.
[08:28] <DarkTrick> Is there a preferred place to go?
[08:28] <knome> this is the preferred place in IRC
[08:28] <DarkTrick> Thank you.
[08:30] <DarkTrick> I created a thread on xfce.org, that contains all information (the "why"), pictures and the themes. I would be glad, if someone could take the time to take a quick look at it
[08:30] <DarkTrick> https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=51762
[08:32] <knome> DarkTrick, there has been talks about adding an "accessibility" theme for greybird that would tackle the window border issues
[08:32] <knome> DarkTrick, i feel like this is close to what you are suggesting for the default theme
[08:32] <DarkTrick> knome, yes it sounds like that.
[08:33] <DarkTrick> knome, although a second point is the size of buttons.
[08:33] <knome> that said, it hasn't been worked on for a while because real life and priorities 
[08:33] <knome> sure, those would likely also be bigger in an "accessibility" theme
[08:33] <DarkTrick> "hasn't been worked on" means "not yet started"?
[08:33] <knome> in quotes, because it wouldn't really only be geared towards those that have specific accessibility needs
[08:34] <knome> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/master/xfwm4-a11y
[08:34] <knome> this has been discussed for literally years, but again, nobody has had the time to do it
[08:35] <knome> every once in a while we get users mentioning the borders are too thin
[08:35] <knome> how we'd really like this problem to be solved is to allow a bigger area to be dragged from but keeping the visuals we have now
[08:36] <DarkTrick> Same here. 
[08:36] <knome> ...but that's not possible with the current software and the solution is much harder than creating a workaround theme
[08:36] <DarkTrick> I guessed the programming takes more time than a theme.
[08:37] <knome> and also means a specific component (xfw4) needs a change, and the people who are familiar enough with that to work with it are much sparser than those who can work on a theme
[08:37] <knome> all this said, if you want to work with the greybird a11y variant, all help is appreciated!
[08:38] <knome> ochosi is the main author for the theme, but even github tells me the theme hasn't been tinkered with in 2 years
[08:38] <knome> (that doesn't mean ochosi isn't active, it just means it's time since he has had to touch it)
[08:38] <knome> the gtk3 theme part is very much in active development.
[08:39] <DarkTrick> I just checked the theme. It seems like it's the usual greybird one at the moment
[08:39] <knome> that's also very possible
[08:40] <DarkTrick> Is it necessary to create a theme for gtk2 and the others as well?
[08:40] <DarkTrick> or would xfwm4 be enough 
[08:40] <knome> those are different things
[08:40] <DarkTrick> enough = enough for already making it available
[08:40] <knome> "just xfwm4" would suffice
[08:40] <DarkTrick> ok
[08:41] <knome> the gtk themes tweak other parts of the UI; pretty much everything *inside* the window borders
[08:43] <DarkTrick> I will make some time to work on a11y. 
[08:43] <DarkTrick> I also mentioned bigger buttons. Doing that would not look like "the good old" greybird anymore.
[08:44] <DarkTrick> Would it be a better choice to introduce a completely new theme for that?
[08:59] <ochosi> we do ship "greybird-accessibility" as window manager theme already
[08:59] <ochosi> and a separate greybird gtk+ theme for all other widgets would be too much work (for me at least)
[08:59] <ochosi> you can use adwaita if you want big buttons :)
[09:00] <DarkTrick> Greybird-accessibility changes to borders only by one or two pixels.
[09:00] <ochosi> yup
[09:01] <ochosi> plus bigger buttons
[09:01] <ochosi> and more visible buttons
[09:01] <DarkTrick> The ones from me have +8 / 10 pixels
[09:01] <DarkTrick> I still have problems with only two pixels more
[09:01] <DarkTrick> Maybe that's a personal problem, though
[09:01] <ochosi> there will always be people who have problems with a few px more or less ;)
[09:02] <DarkTrick> This is my suggestion
[09:02] <DarkTrick> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vp7leawy1o1ner/theme2.jpeg?dl=0
[09:04] <ochosi> sure, that's simply a different theme though
[09:06] <DarkTrick> Maybe I'm too cocksure of myself, but I think my  proposed theme would really make window handling easier.
[09:06] <DarkTrick> Btw: @knome: Thank you for your help!
[09:06] <knome> DarkTrick, np
[09:08] <DarkTrick> ochosi, If I get things right at the moment, the best solution would be to upload it at xfce-look.org?
[09:32] <ochosi> yeah, that would be a good start
[09:32] <ochosi> we can always consider another wm theme for inclusing into xfce
[09:32] <ochosi> errrm, xubuntu
[09:32] <knome> (:
[09:32] <ochosi> however, you have to keep client-side window decorations in mind
[09:32] <ochosi> so you have to alter the gtk theme as well for consistency
[09:33] <ochosi> otherwise those CSD windows will look different/out of place
[09:44] <DarkTrick> ochosi, "client-side window"?
[09:50] <DarkTrick> If I know how to test it, I can create it.
[09:52] <ochosi> you can check e.g. evince or gnome's calculator
[09:52] <ochosi> for many apps, the CSD are deactivated in xubuntu
[09:52] <ochosi> but not all
[10:05] <DarkTrick> Why would I need to care about CSD? As far as I understand they have a fixed decoration anyway.
[10:05] <DarkTrick> So themes won't apply to them.
[21:02] <brainwash> bluesabre: still awaiting a comment on bug 1754872
[21:03] <brainwash> #27 has my solution