=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash [08:27] Hello [08:27] hello [08:27] Is this the only channel for xubuntu? [08:27] no [08:28] I want to propose the usage of a new window theme. [08:28] Is there a preferred place to go? [08:28] this is the preferred place in IRC [08:28] Thank you. [08:30] I created a thread on xfce.org, that contains all information (the "why"), pictures and the themes. I would be glad, if someone could take the time to take a quick look at it [08:30] https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=51762 [08:32] DarkTrick, there has been talks about adding an "accessibility" theme for greybird that would tackle the window border issues [08:32] DarkTrick, i feel like this is close to what you are suggesting for the default theme [08:32] knome, yes it sounds like that. [08:33] knome, although a second point is the size of buttons. [08:33] that said, it hasn't been worked on for a while because real life and priorities [08:33] sure, those would likely also be bigger in an "accessibility" theme [08:33] "hasn't been worked on" means "not yet started"? [08:33] in quotes, because it wouldn't really only be geared towards those that have specific accessibility needs [08:34] https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/master/xfwm4-a11y [08:34] this has been discussed for literally years, but again, nobody has had the time to do it [08:35] every once in a while we get users mentioning the borders are too thin [08:35] how we'd really like this problem to be solved is to allow a bigger area to be dragged from but keeping the visuals we have now [08:36] Same here. [08:36] ...but that's not possible with the current software and the solution is much harder than creating a workaround theme [08:36] I guessed the programming takes more time than a theme. [08:37] and also means a specific component (xfw4) needs a change, and the people who are familiar enough with that to work with it are much sparser than those who can work on a theme [08:37] all this said, if you want to work with the greybird a11y variant, all help is appreciated! [08:38] ochosi is the main author for the theme, but even github tells me the theme hasn't been tinkered with in 2 years [08:38] (that doesn't mean ochosi isn't active, it just means it's time since he has had to touch it) [08:38] the gtk3 theme part is very much in active development. [08:39] I just checked the theme. It seems like it's the usual greybird one at the moment [08:39] that's also very possible [08:40] Is it necessary to create a theme for gtk2 and the others as well? [08:40] or would xfwm4 be enough [08:40] those are different things [08:40] enough = enough for already making it available [08:40] "just xfwm4" would suffice [08:40] ok [08:41] the gtk themes tweak other parts of the UI; pretty much everything *inside* the window borders [08:43] I will make some time to work on a11y. [08:43] I also mentioned bigger buttons. Doing that would not look like "the good old" greybird anymore. [08:44] Would it be a better choice to introduce a completely new theme for that? [08:59] we do ship "greybird-accessibility" as window manager theme already [08:59] and a separate greybird gtk+ theme for all other widgets would be too much work (for me at least) [08:59] you can use adwaita if you want big buttons :) [09:00] Greybird-accessibility changes to borders only by one or two pixels. [09:00] yup [09:01] plus bigger buttons [09:01] and more visible buttons [09:01] The ones from me have +8 / 10 pixels [09:01] I still have problems with only two pixels more [09:01] Maybe that's a personal problem, though [09:01] there will always be people who have problems with a few px more or less ;) [09:02] This is my suggestion [09:02] https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vp7leawy1o1ner/theme2.jpeg?dl=0 [09:04] sure, that's simply a different theme though [09:06] Maybe I'm too cocksure of myself, but I think my proposed theme would really make window handling easier. [09:06] Btw: @knome: Thank you for your help! [09:06] DarkTrick, np [09:08] ochosi, If I get things right at the moment, the best solution would be to upload it at xfce-look.org? [09:32] yeah, that would be a good start [09:32] we can always consider another wm theme for inclusing into xfce [09:32] errrm, xubuntu [09:32] (: [09:32] however, you have to keep client-side window decorations in mind [09:32] so you have to alter the gtk theme as well for consistency [09:33] otherwise those CSD windows will look different/out of place [09:44] ochosi, "client-side window"? [09:50] If I know how to test it, I can create it. [09:52] you can check e.g. evince or gnome's calculator [09:52] for many apps, the CSD are deactivated in xubuntu [09:52] but not all [10:05] Why would I need to care about CSD? As far as I understand they have a fixed decoration anyway. [10:05] So themes won't apply to them. [21:02] bluesabre: still awaiting a comment on bug 1754872 [21:02] bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "apt install xubuntu-desktop does not resolve dependencies properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754872 [21:03] #27 has my solution