[16:16] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think that -controls needs a part that disables cadence.
[16:24] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I completely and 100% agree. Perhaps we need to fix the packaging to uninstall. Also, have it detect for anything in ~/.pulse and remove it, or at least have the option. Or something. We need to, basically, have it kill Cadence with fire if it's installed.
[16:28] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we need to A) install a cadence.desktop file in ~/.config/autostart that has a don't run line init, B) stop the running process C) remove the user's pulse configure D) start pulse E) finally -controls can do it's thing.
[16:29] <Eickmeyer> Is that something we can add as a button to -controls? (Fix user audio configuration)
[16:30] <OvenWerks> To re-enable cadence , just remove the *.desktop we installed and re login
[16:31] <OvenWerks> or remove the desktop file and start cadence as an app.
[16:31] <Eickmeyer> As it is right now, -controls can't even be installed at the same time, meaning Cadence has to be removed first. iirc, we did that deliberately.
[16:32] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I would not add a button to fix the config. I would just do that and maybe add a dialog that explains that the two can not run together and so it is being disabled.
[16:32] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  then add a button to re enable cadence.
[16:36] <Eickmeyer> Okay, that sounds good.
[16:39] <OvenWerks> Not sure when I will get to that... have a death in the family and so dealing with all that brings
[16:40] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: speaking of installers... did we add libjack-jackd2-dev to audio core?
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I don't believe we did. 
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> Would that prevent jack (1) from being installed?
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> (I realize that's the goal)
[16:43] <OvenWerks> well maybe, I think installing libjack-dev may still do odd things... maybe we can blaklist it somewhere?
[16:44] <Eickmeyer> I think the only way to do that is by putting a Conflicts: line in ubuntustudio-audio-core.
[16:44] <OvenWerks> Would that stop "Software" from removing core?
[16:45] <Eickmeyer> Yes. But, just FYI, I tried installing libjack-dev from the command line, and it completely blocked it, so I think we're already good.
[16:46] <Eickmeyer>  libjack-dev : Depends: libjack0 (= 1:0.125.0-3build1) but it is not going to be installed
[16:46] <Eickmeyer> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[16:46] <Eickmeyer> If someone installs libjack0, however, then it looks like it will try to switch to jackd1.
[16:48] <OvenWerks> There is no reason to do that, it is just the people who want to build a jack application. when building thing the common thing is to find the lib* package and just install the lib*-dev package
[16:49] <Eickmeyer> That's true. So, should we not worry about it then?
[16:49] <Eickmeyer> I mean, since it's already blocked.
[16:50]  * OvenWerks shrugs
[16:50] <OvenWerks> I really don't know.
[16:50] <OvenWerks> I will be glad when falktx has depricated jackd1
[16:50] <Eickmeyer> Installing libjack0 removes -controls, -default-settings, -dekstop, -desktop-core, -installer, and -menu.
[16:50] <OvenWerks> (yes that is the plan)
[16:52] <Eickmeyer> So, right now, if you force libjack-dev to install, it will remove things that make Ubuntu Studio... Studio. It also removes qjackctl, qtractor, ardour, gladish,... basically everything.
[16:52] <OvenWerks> -controls won't work with jackd1 (though it could be made to)
[16:52] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, uh, let's not.
[16:52] <OvenWerks>  ;)
[16:52] <Eickmeyer> hehe
[16:53] <OvenWerks> I would rather suggest to "Ubuntu" that the jackd1 packages not be in the repo...
[16:54] <OvenWerks> but there are a (very) few cases where jackd1 does make sense
[16:54] <Eickmeyer> It seems to be harder to remove a package once it's in the repo.
[16:54] <OvenWerks> falktx is working to add those things to jackd2 and retire jackd1... (he now maintains both)
[16:55] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I think moving Carla to it's 2.0 version is part of that. I don't know what else he's using jackd1 for.
[16:56] <OvenWerks> Paul stopped maintaining jackd1 and opened it up for someone to take over, falktx took it over and is working to make it so only one version is needed
[16:57] <OvenWerks> I expect jackd1 will eventually vanish due to bitrot. (at least in an official way)
[16:58] <Eickmeyer> Ala Patchage.
[16:58] <Eickmeyer> (as we're trying to do)
[16:58] <OvenWerks> Patchage still works for me.
[16:58] <Eickmeyer> Same, but bitrot.
[16:59] <OvenWerks> patchage has new commits as of last month...
[17:00] <Eickmeyer> Wait.. whut?
[17:00]  * Eickmeyer is shocked
[17:00] <OvenWerks> http://git.drobilla.net/cgit.cgi/patchage.git/log/
[17:01] <OvenWerks> maybe the debian package has the wrong upstream url?
[17:01] <Eickmeyer> It's possible, but does this negate getting Carla to replace it?
[17:02] <OvenWerks> I don't think it matters. I would leave patchage around anyway... 
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> Okay. In that case, we need to comment on that bug report Ross created.
[17:03] <OvenWerks> Starting Carla to make patching changes in jackd seem counter intuitive
[17:03]  * Eickmeyer does it all the time
[17:03] <Eickmeyer> IMO, it's a better patchbay.
[17:04] <OvenWerks> The problem is that there is no new release in the past 3 years
[17:05] <Eickmeyer> I was just about to mention that. More like 5 years. http://drobilla.net/category/patchage/
[17:05] <OvenWerks> tag name	v1.0.0 (5df1c18dde1d1eb9ad0caac9440c8e9bbba0de10)
[17:05] <Eickmeyer> That might be why Debian's package hasn't seen anything.
[17:05] <OvenWerks> tag date	2015-11-13 20:09:30 -0500
[17:06] <OvenWerks> The one we have is from 2015
[17:06] <Eickmeyer> Okay.
[17:06] <Eickmeyer> Still, that's some really slow development.
[17:07]  * Eickmeyer sigs
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> *sighs
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> Well, what do you recommend?
[17:07] <OvenWerks> Not that there is a lot to keep it current
[17:08] <Eickmeyer> True. But, should we drop it or keep it?
[17:09] <OvenWerks> If it is not broken in the new cycle it is ok. If it starts breaking, then A) bug david for a new release or B) ask debian to use master C) use master in Ubuntu.
[17:09] <OvenWerks> So keep it.
[17:09] <Eickmeyer> Okay.
[17:09] <OvenWerks> Does it pull in libs that nothing else uses?
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> I don't think so... I could check.
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> Or, either of us could.
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> Either way, if we want to keep it, then we need to comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1817262
[17:11] <Eickmeyer> And https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1817264
[17:11] <OvenWerks> libgtk2.0-0?
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> No, there's a ton of xfce stuff that depends on that.
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> Not to mention Ardour and Audacity among others.
[17:13] <OvenWerks> Right I would just change the title of the bug that CXarla replaces jackrack
[17:13] <Eickmeyer> That's probably better. It definitely replaces jackrack, which I can't get to work properly ever.
[17:13] <OvenWerks> Which was my original reason for suggesting Carla
[17:13] <Eickmeyer> I see.
[17:14] <OvenWerks> changed the topic
[17:15] <OvenWerks> So di you :)
[17:16] <OvenWerks> (actually it is jack-rack)
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> Fixed the other bug too (for meta).
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> He'll get the message.