[18:57] <slashd> o/
[19:02] <tsimonq2> Hello!
[19:05] <slashd> do we have something to discuss ?
[19:06] <cyphermox> I don't know
[19:06] <cyphermox> fwiw my action is done
[19:06] <tsimonq2> We do
[19:07] <tsimonq2> Granting ~lubuntu-dev upload permissions.
[19:08] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: I'm not sure why ~lubuntu-countil is in the team, sounds like it shouldn't be
[19:08] <tsimonq2> cyphermox: It's a temporary measure.
[19:08] <cyphermox> I don't see why it needs to be in at all
[19:09] <cyphermox> it's definitely not going to work with having ~lubuntu-dev upload permissions
[19:10] <tsimonq2> gilir is the owner of the LP group and ~lubuntu-council is in the team at the moment for bus factor.
[19:10] <cyphermox> I still don't understand
[19:10] <cyphermox> gilir owning the team isn't necessarily a blocker. If he can't be reached, there's a way to request the ownership to be changed
[19:11] <cyphermox> OTOH, I don't think it's necessarily a given that a council member is also a developer
[19:11] <cyphermox> (certainly doesn't seem to be the case for other flavours)
[19:11] <tsimonq2> It was not planned to keep it this way if upload permissions were granted
[19:12] <tsimonq2> It's a temporary stopgap measure before ownership is transferred
[19:12] <cyphermox> well, I guess the point is, I would personally prefer that the teams are all properly set before we do any permissions changes (well, before the TB does)
[19:12] <cyphermox> no objection to lubuntu-dev being a delegated team though, that makes total sense
[19:13] <tsimonq2> Well, I would like to vote on it :)
[19:13] <tsimonq2> I understand
[19:13] <cyphermox> well, do we need to is also my question, because if we're all in agreement there is no real use in voting :)
[19:14] <tsimonq2> I don't want to act unilaterally before giving DMB members time to voice any concerns
[19:14] <cyphermox> sure sure.
[19:14] <cyphermox> so, anyone objects?
[19:15] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: also, since ~l-council is admin, can't it change the ownership already?
[19:16] <cyphermox> or are you waiting for a council meeting before you do that?
[19:16] <tsimonq2> Nope, only owners can transfer ownership
[19:16] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: or launchpad admins, if you make your case
[19:16] <tsimonq2> Right
[19:16] <tsimonq2> I forget if I have to file an RT or if I can just ping on #launchpad
[19:17] <jbicha> voting sounds reasonable. It's been several years since we've had a new delegated team with ability to ability their own members.
[19:17] <cyphermox> it's usually a good idea to file the RT so it's tracked
[19:17] <tsimonq2> Right, audit logs and such
[19:18] <tsimonq2> jbicha: I don't think it would hurt
[19:18] <cyphermox> jbicha: we've already reached the point where the time effect is moot, but typically if there's consensus, voting is extra
[19:18] <tsimonq2> ok
[19:18] <cyphermox> the logs aren't any different, they're just text
[19:18] <cyphermox> well, if someone wants to start it..
[19:19] <tsimonq2> [ACTION] tsimonq2 to file RT transferring ownership of ~lubuntu-dev, deactivate ~lubuntu-council, ask TB to do ACL change
[19:19] <tsimonq2> :P
[19:20] <jbicha> I don't think we started a meeting…
[19:23] <cyphermox> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[19:23] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 25 19:23:28 2019 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:23] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:23] <cyphermox> #topic ~lubuntu-dev delegated team
[19:23] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: you want to summarize for the logs?
[19:24] <cyphermox> then I'll start the vote
[19:24] <cyphermox> slashd: around?
[19:24] <tsimonq2> Sure.
[19:24] <cyphermox> rbasak isn't
[19:24] <slashd> cyphermox, yep
[19:24] <jbicha> oh, we're voting after all?
[19:24] <cyphermox> well since you all seem to need it :P
[19:25] <jbicha> I wasn't going to call us for us to have a vote on whether to have a vote 😉
[19:25] <tsimonq2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2019-February/001319.html - tl;dr Lubuntu is asking for ~lubuntu-dev to be granted upload permissions to the `lubuntu` packageset.
[19:25] <tsimonq2> :D
[19:25] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: sounds like a great summary :)
[19:25] <cyphermox> #vote ~lubuntu-dev to be granted delegated control over lubuntu packageset (new delegated team)
[19:25] <meetingology> Please vote on: ~lubuntu-dev to be granted delegated control over lubuntu packageset (new delegated team)
[19:25] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:26] <tsimonq2> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
[19:26] <cyphermox> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[19:26] <jbicha> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from jbicha
[19:26] <slashd> +1
[19:26] <meetingology> +1 received from slashd
[19:27] <cyphermox> no sil2100 either
[19:27] <cyphermox> and no micahg.
[19:27] <cyphermox> #endvote
[19:27] <meetingology> Voting ended on: ~lubuntu-dev to be granted delegated control over lubuntu packageset (new delegated team)
[19:27] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:27] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:28] <cyphermox> that was quorate anyway
[19:28] <cyphermox> now; one issue is that I'm not sure if we're supposed to decide if we can delegate directly, or if it needs to be approved or something
[19:29] <cyphermox> but I suppose, tsimonq2, if you're going to be the person bringing it up to the TB, it can be part of the discussion if there's any needed
[19:29] <cyphermox> I'll definitely be at the next TB meeting anyway
[19:29] <tsimonq2> The original proposal I outlined was to create a new team, ~lubuntu-dev-owner, which has the DMB and ~lubuntu-council, and allow that team to approve/deny members.
[19:30] <cyphermox> yup
[19:30] <tsimonq2> cyphermox: Is that something we decide or the TB does?
[19:30] <cyphermox> like kubuntu, basically
[19:30] <tsimonq2> Right.
[19:30] <cyphermox> well, TB ultimately is responsible for granting access rights to developers, they delegate that to us
[19:31] <cyphermox> but it sounds exactly like what Kubuntu does, and seems like it's perfectly fine for lubuntu to do that as well
[19:31] <cyphermox> so you probably just need to finish sorting out the ownership of the teams and you'll be all set
[19:31] <tsimonq2> Cool.
[19:32] <tsimonq2> Do we have a wiki page somewhere for formally requesting that the TB edit ACLs?
[19:32] <tsimonq2> (Or just generally some documentation I can follow.)
[19:33] <tsimonq2> "The name 'lubuntu-dev-owner' has been blocked by the Launchpad administrators. Contact Launchpad Support if you want to use this name." - heh, ok, so it'll have to be with one big ticket.
[19:33] <tsimonq2> (To answer my own question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Actions_after_a_successful_applications )
[19:33] <cyphermox> oh, looky
[19:34] <cyphermox> that actually also covers delegation
[19:34] <cyphermox> we should be looking at a policy for how the applications will be managed
[19:36] <tsimonq2> [ACTION] tsimonq2 to file RT transferring ownership of ~lubuntu-dev, deactivate ~lubuntu-council, ask TB to do ACL change
[19:36] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to file RT transferring ownership of ~lubuntu-dev, deactivate ~lubuntu-council, ask TB to do ACL change
[19:37] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: we should really go over such a "policy" on the applications for lubuntu, but we can do that at a later meeting I guess?
[19:37] <cyphermox> that way you could write down something in the wiki like the one for the DesktopTeam; what you expect to see for an applicant, etc.
[19:38] <tsimonq2> https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/lubuntu-dev/
[19:38] <tsimonq2> I wrote that when I sent the email to devel-permissions.
[19:39] <tsimonq2> It's a more complete page which I'd like to generalize for Ubuntu Developers that shows everything I would expect a Lubuntu Developer to know, plus the application process.
[19:40] <cyphermox> nice
[19:40] <tsimonq2> So where I'm still curious is whether that's a process that the TB or the DMB approves.
[19:42] <cyphermox> the knowledgebase page says it's us
[19:42] <tsimonq2> Alright, so the vote earlier was to grant the team the packageset permissions, I guess we need a separate vote for the process?
[19:42] <cyphermox> slashd: jbicha: any issues with the aforementioned document?
[19:43] <cyphermox> or do you want to vote on it?
[19:43] <jbicha> I don't think we need a second vote
[19:44] <tsimonq2> For the record: ~lubuntu-dev changed to self-renewal, 720 day expiry period, ~ubuntu-core-dev was already a member, added ~lubuntu-dev to ~ubuntu-dev.
[19:45] <cyphermox> ack
[19:45] <tsimonq2> Oh, and ~lubuntu-council deactivated prior to doing all of that.
[19:47] <tsimonq2> Something else I noticed when adding ~lubuntu-dev to ~ubuntu-dev; ~ubuntu-sru-developers is the only team with an expiry date. Should that be changed to "expire never"?
[19:47] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: you mean in ~ubuntu-dev?
[19:47] <tsimonq2> Yes.
[19:47] <cyphermox> possibly
[19:48] <cyphermox> #topic AOB?
[19:48] <cyphermox> oh
[19:48] <cyphermox> ok, I already did end the voting
[19:48] <tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+member/ubuntu-sru-developers vs https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+member/kubuntu-dev
[19:48] <cyphermox> anything else?
[19:48] <cyphermox> tsimonq2: I agree.
[19:49] <tsimonq2> I'll make that change then.
[19:49] <tsimonq2> Nothing else from me.
[19:49] <cyphermox> slashd: jbicha
[19:49] <slashd> cyphermox, nothing else on my side
[19:50] <jbicha> nothing from me :)
[19:50] <cyphermox> ok
[19:50] <cyphermox> #endmeeting
[19:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 25 19:50:20 2019 UTC.
[19:50] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-02-25-19.23.moin.txt
[19:50] <cyphermox> thanks everyone!
[19:50] <tsimonq2> Thanks!
[19:50] <jbicha> bye