/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/03/21/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

sil2100o/15:00
* vorlon waves15:01
julianko\15:01
tdaitxo>15:01
waveform\o15:01
rbalinto/15:02
xnox#startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team15:03
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Mar 21 15:03:41 2019 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:03
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
xnox#topic Lightning rounds15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
xnox$ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)15:04
xnoxmwhudson doko xnox bdmurray cyphermox sil2100 juliank infinity rbalint vorlon tdaitx waveform15:04
xnoxdoko, ?15:04
* xnox goes to fix the script to not have mwhudson it in.15:04
doko- more openjdk-11-transition work15:04
doko- new OpenJDK upstreams: 8u202, 8u212, Openjdk 12 ga, OpenJDK 11.0.3+4, OpenJDK 1315:04
doko- Help tracking down https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-822108315:04
doko- Fix PR jit/87808, backport fix for PR tree-optimization/8950515:04
doko- GCC 9 update15:04
doko- 360s15:04
doko(done)15:04
xnox* made fuse-zip fail on all arches, instead of just s390x!15:04
xnox  - possibly a way out here is more patches to fuse15:04
xnox  - why did we merge fuse, past DebianImportFreeze?!15:04
xnox* openssl backports discussions with security/pat15:04
xnox* working on unbreaking subiquity on power/serial15:04
xnox* waiting on ibm to continue optimized atlas builds for z13/z1415:04
xnox* vorlon, still awaiting openssl 1.1.1 accept into15:04
xnox  bionic-proposed. All feedback responded to....15:04
xnox  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssl/+bug/179738615:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1797386 in openssl (Ubuntu) "[SRU] OpenSSL 1.1.1 to 18.04 LTS" [Undecided,In progress]15:05
xnox* on holidays next week ⛷️15:05
xnox(done)15:05
xnoxbdmurray,15:05
bdmurrayconverted two ET cronjobs from pycassa to python cassandra15:05
bdmurraysubmitted RT, mojo spec MP regarding update of daisy to r824 in prod ET15:05
bdmurraymodified the above RT to also include updating apport to r3227 see below15:05
bdmurraydiscovered an issue with how apport calls gdb fixed in r322715:05
bdmurraysubmitted RT, mojo spec MP regarding update of daisy to r826 in prod ET15:05
bdmurrayreview of rls-dd-incoming bug tasks15:05
bdmurraysubmitted PR for metrics and jobs w/ a metric for retracers-results15:05
bdmurraysubmitted PR for metrics and jobs w/ a metric for retracer-avg-process time15:05
bdmurraycreated some test graphs of the above15:05
bdmurrayreviewed, merged, uploaded xnox's u-r-u lintian fixes for disco15:05
bdmurrayreview of netplan SRU exception15:05
bdmurrayspecial SRU review of keystone, python-ldappool15:05
sil2100cyphermox15:06
sil2100Oh, or did bdmurray not finish?15:06
bdmurrayI did finish15:06
vorlonxnox: yeah, haven't had any SRU day time since last we discussed15:07
xnoxvorlon, ack.15:07
xnoxsil2100, go15:08
sil2100No cyphermox ?15:08
sil2100- SRU reviews and releases15:08
sil2100- A lot of new kernel reviews (new cycle)15:08
sil2100- Some package approvals for the OpenJDK-11 transition15:08
sil2100- Review of the pi spec15:08
sil2100- Reviews and infrastructure help for ubuntu-canary15:08
sil2100- Helping out with an iproute2 backports upload15:08
sil2100- Few FFe reviews15:08
sil2100- Shepherding disco first set of language-pack delta updates15:08
sil2100- Fixing kernel-sru-review to handle kernel backports of flavor kernels without crashing15:08
sil2100- 36015:08
sil2100- core18:15:08
cyphermoxgah, sorry, I'm here15:08
sil2100  * Finalized gadget snap code branch location and permissions15:08
sil2100  * Moar work on core18 promotion - scripts almost there, only the jenkins job needed15:08
sil2100  * Backporting missing change from core for support of out-of-core18 wpa-supplicant (PR)15:08
sil2100  * Modified version number to include the date (and thinking about that a bit)15:08
sil2100  * Checked status of snap prepare-image for classic seeding15:08
sil2100- Tomorrow: out-of-office o/15:09
sil2100(done)15:09
xnoxcyphermox, go15:09
cyphermoxshim review: attempting to review OpenSuSE / tumbleweed / SLES shims; hard to even get a build env working to begin with15:09
cyphermoxshim review: partial review of Debian's shims for ia32, x64, aa64. We're gaining an additional contributor to reviewing shims too yay!15:09
cyphermoxuploaded grub2 SRUs for http module + debconf prompts (LP: #1787630) (LP: #564853)15:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1787630 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Include HTTP support in pre-build GRUB module" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178763015:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 564853 in grub2 (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Spurious conffile prompts for /etc/default/grub" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56485315:09
cyphermoxadded mmx64.efi to d-i images (and will end up on dailies) to better address Secure Boot configuration for unfinished installs (LP: #1798171)15:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1798171 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Disco) "System fails to boot with \EFI\BOOT\mmx64.efi - Not Found" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179817115:09
cyphermoxinitial review of netplan wireguard support PR15:09
cyphermoxrevived netplan PR#34: "openvswitch support" - allow networkd to bring up devices without addresses / unconfigured but IFF_UP.15:09
cyphermoxnetplan roadmap: prioritizing next features to implement15:09
cyphermoxpaperwork for design / user stories for new netplan features15:09
cyphermoxI still need help to get the netplan.io SRUs reviewed in the bionic, cosmic queues15:09
cyphermoxfwiw I'm looking now at why the dailies don't yet have mmx64.efi as I thought they would; which is why I was unresponsive, deep hack mode looking at mark-pending-current and such15:10
cyphermox(done)15:10
xnoxcyphermox, mark-pending-current.... interesting, i wonder if ci jobs are fialing.15:10
cyphermoxthey def are15:10
xnoxjuliank, !15:10
juliank(short week, OoO on monday)15:10
juliank* (last Fri) Re-verified APT SRUs15:10
juliank* ESM UX review15:10
juliank* Some PackageKit merge review15:10
juliank* Improve PackageKit error handling (https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/pull/321)15:10
juliank* Tighten APT dependencies on its own libs (https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/merge_requests/56)15:11
juliank* Rebase APT proposed update branches against master and do some more stringview cleanup15:11
juliank* More ESM UX bikeshedding15:11
juliank* Analysis of aptdaemon use in software-properties15:11
juliank* First stab at PackageKit driver installs in software-properties-gtk - (updates works already)15:11
juliank  - Not sure about QApt vs PackageKit in the Qt backend15:11
juliank(also: apt-side of ESM stuff landed everywhere today, woohoo!)15:11
juliank(done)15:11
xnoxinfinity is not in the channel...15:11
bdmurrayrbalint:15:11
rbalint(short week)15:11
rbalint* fixed script bzr -> git conversion script to handle software-properties' repo15:11
rbalint* converted and switched software-properties project to git15:11
rbalint* prepared sru patches for systemd-detect-virt wsl detection15:11
rbalint* partner work15:11
rbalint* fixing unattended-upgrades bugs, I'm finalizing tests and push the changes later today15:11
rbalint(done)15:11
vorlon * short week, was off last Friday15:12
xnoxvorlon,15:12
vorlon * legwork for fips vs secureboot15:12
vorlon * discussions around UC20 roadmap15:12
vorlon * discussing netplan roadmap for 19.1015:12
vorlon * looked at snap seeding and core18 coming into the disco desktop images15:12
vorlon * worked with xnox to fix modules.squashfs the right way around (in debian-cd)15:12
vorlon * next week: off (spring break)15:12
vorlon(done)15:12
xnoxtdaitx,15:12
tdaitx* openjdk-11 bionic security transition15:12
tdaitx  - gradle test and fixes (LP: #1820389, LP: #1797761, Debian: #925225)15:12
tdaitx  - geogebra update for Bionic15:12
tdaitx  - investigated LP: #1803855 in gradle/groovy but that requires a new groovy update and that is not happening any time soon15:12
tdaitx  - following up on android-tools (LP: #1820513)15:12
tdaitx  - quick check on an octave update for bionic for better openjdk-11 support, but that would require a soversion update15:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1820389 in gradle (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Gradle on OpenJDK 8: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: java.lang.invoke.MethodHandles.privateLookupIn()" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182038915:12
tdaitx* openjdk-7 packaged and uploaded for review by security team15:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1797761 in gradle (Ubuntu) "Gradle 4.4.1 package missing alternative dep to Java8" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179776115:12
ubottuDebian bug 925225 in gradle "gradle: Fix gradle compatibility with OpenJDK 8" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/92522515:12
tdaitxOther:15:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1803855 in gradle (Ubuntu) "Illegal reflective access operation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180385515:12
tdaitx- 360 fun15:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1820513 in android-platform-tools-base (Ubuntu) "android-* packages not working well with OpenJDK 11" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182051315:12
tdaitx- working some odd hours this and the next weeks (gym on Mon/Fri afternoon + apartment renovation^Wproblems going on)15:12
tdaitx- happy 321 holidays!15:12
tdaitx(done)15:12
tdaitxwaveform: go!15:13
waveform* More work on pi spec (answering reviews)15:13
waveform* SRU for RPi.GPIO to bionic15:13
waveform* RPi.GPIO fixes accepted upstream; tested updated package on ubuntu under aarch6415:13
waveform* ITP colorzero to Debian (new dep of gpiozero)15:13
waveform* Reading up on live-build (overlays for pi configuration hacks)15:13
waveform* Worked on first boot design (3 scenarios to support)15:13
waveform* Experimented with seeding cloud-init from boot partition on the pi15:13
waveform* piwheels configuration for ubuntu (ongoing)15:13
waveform(done)15:13
xnoxAny status questions?15:14
xnox#topic Release incoming bugs (disco)15:14
xnox#link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs15:14
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (disco)
bdmurrayI went ahead and set the importance for all the rls-dd-incoming15:15
bdmurraybug 179020515:15
ubottubug 1790205 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd journals take up too much space, aren't vacuumed automatically" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179020515:15
xnoxbdmurray, so... depending on how big ones instalation is, one will have bigger or smaller journal usage.15:15
bdmurrayI was surprised to find 4G of logs on my system15:15
xnoxbdmurray, so if people have large hard drive, you will have gigs of logs.15:16
xnoxbdmurray, is it more than what journal declares to be the limit? one sec:15:16
bdmurrayxnox: and if my hard drive becomes small because of the logs then what happens?15:16
xnoxbdmurray, $ journalctl -b -u systemd-journald.service -n 115:16
xnox-- Logs begin at Mon 2018-09-17 14:21:50 BST, end at Thu 2019-03-21 15:16:25 GMT. --15:16
xnoxMar 21 11:27:37 ottawa systemd-journald[571]: System journal (/var/log/journal/1b8df0fa27039f0163586c6756a6d401) is 3.7G, max 4.0G, 231.6M free.15:16
xnoxfor me, the max is 4G, and it's below that at the moment, so that is working correct.15:16
xnoxif logs are more, than max, that would be a bug, so far i have not seen anybody, prove that limits are neither in place, nor observed.15:17
xnoxbdmurray, what does above say for you?15:17
bdmurrayMar 19 07:50:32 impulse systemd-journald[608]: System journal (/var/log/journal/5daa40091e7e4b6fa27e6439f0a48bdc) is 3.9G, max 4.0G, 23.8M free15:17
xnoxbdmurray, or is it the case that 4GB is "omg logs grow uncontrollable"15:17
xnoxbdmurray, so you are definately capped already.15:17
xnox$ journalctl --disk-usage15:19
xnoxArchived and active journals take up 3.7G in the file system.15:19
xnoxso maybe --disk-usage, should state the max, and free, like it does on startup.15:19
vorlonsounds sensible15:19
xnoxvorlon, ^15:19
xnoxok.15:20
vorlonI do think 4GB sounds like a surprisingly large amount for logs however15:20
vorlonis there so much more data in journals vs. traditional syslog that we need to allocate more space?15:20
juliank"Archived and active journals take up 4.0G in the file system." for me15:21
tdaitxmar 18 21:44:34 tdaitx-P65 systemd-journald[32600]: System journal (/var/log/journal/e0e3d1032c874b5ba18c951f8ae3cbfa) is 1.0G, max 1.0G, 0B free.15:21
tdaitxArchived and active journals take up 1.0G in the file system.15:21
tdaitxbut I set it to 1G in journald.conf15:22
tdaitxSystemMaxUse=1G15:22
xnox$ journalctl | grep gnome-shell15:23
juliank^ gnome-shell sucks15:25
vorlonmy thinking here is that the journal should be rotating by date.  Because if something's going on /currently/ that makes the logs balloon, we should keep those (up to the limit), but I don't think we should let systemd consistently fill up a fixed amount of space on disk15:26
juliankMaxRetentionSec=1m15:27
juliankand MaxFileSec control that15:27
vorlonmy desktop has a 1.3G journal on a 12G rootfs.  is that going to grow up to 4G?  (How do I check on cosmic the limit?)15:28
vorlonah found it15:28
vorlonMar 12 11:01:49 virgil systemd-journald[6237]: System journal (/var/log/journal/c856e8839ee179de1933c6264c9c4260) is 1.2G, max 1.1G, 0B free.15:28
rbalintvorlon, it used to be the case but time just correlates with log size, while log size is the cost paid for the logs on systems thus size base limit fits the cost better and now it can proberly be enforced15:28
xnoxvorlon, that looks buggy. because 1.2 is more than 1.115:29
vorlonxnox: I notice!15:29
xnoxvorlon, that is worth filing a bug.15:29
rbalintbefore journald size based limits could not have been enforced thus time-based was the best heuristics15:29
juliank10% max used, 15% min free15:29
xnoxvorlon, and it's not weird variable size fs, right ? i.e. compressed btrfs?15:29
juliankeach capped to 4 GB15:29
vorlonxnox: haha no15:29
xnoxok15:29
bdmurrayThe --disk-usage switch gave me a different number than the system journal did too15:30
juliankit likely grew at boot, and then vacuumed later and it got down?15:30
bdmurraySystem journal (/var/log/journal/5daa40091e7e4b6fa27e6439f0a48bdc) is 3.9G15:30
bdmurrayArchived and active journals take up 4.0G in the file system.15:30
xnoxwell --disk-usage shoes the current size, i think, which might be both persistent (/var) and runtime (/run)15:30
gaughentime to let it go for now15:30
gaughendon't make me sing15:30
bdmurrayOkay, lets move on. xnox you'll follow up with the bug yes?15:31
gaughenbdmurray, xnox is on vacation after tomorrow15:31
dokono Hasselhoff?15:31
xnoxbdmurray, yes.15:31
xnoxbdmurray, doing typy typy now.15:31
bdmurraybug 1807479 - there's a patch but why was this assinged to the team xnox?15:32
ubottubug 1807479 in system-config-kickstart (Ubuntu) "Hashed passwords stored as MD5 hashes in /etc/shadow" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180747915:32
cyphermoxerr15:32
cyphermoxsystem-config-kickstart?15:32
juliankyo!15:32
bdmurrayWe've decided that it doesn't need to be assigned to the team15:35
bdmurrayando somebody'll have a look at the patch15:35
tdaitxthe fix seems correct anyway15:36
bdmurraybug 181169415:38
ubottubug 1811694 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/aptd:RuntimeError:_inline_callbacks:get_uid_from_dbus_name:return_value:_inline_callbacks:_check_simulated:_inline_callbacks" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181169415:38
bdmurraythere are hundreds of dupes of that in the error tracker15:38
juliankmake it go away!15:38
juliankaah15:38
juliankBut yes, that seems like aptdaemon needs to be adapted to python 3.7 or something15:39
vorlonbdmurray: +1 for accepting it and putting it on the backlog15:39
bdmurraywill do15:39
bdmurrayxnox: is bug 1815599 on your radar?15:40
ubottubug 1815599 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "multipath shows '#:#:#:#' for iscsi device after error injection" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181559915:40
xnoxno15:40
xnoxbdmurray, i hope that like cpaelzer and/or server team can take it15:40
bdmurrayxnox: have you done more than hope?15:41
bdmurraygaughen: you'll bring it up with the server team yes?15:42
gaughendoing so right now15:42
vorlonso we're not taking it for disco but we "hope" server team does? :)15:42
gaughenvorlon, yes15:42
xnoxthe last hope15:43
bdmurrayno, a new hope15:43
juliankthe final hope15:43
juliankthe meow hope15:43
bdmurraybug 179836915:44
ubottubug 1798369 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Reinstall Ubuntu (with preserving existing data) shows error message due to "Could not get lock /target/var/cache/apt/archives/lock"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179836915:44
cpaelzerxnox: was not on my radar at all so far15:44
vorlonthe last best hope for mankind15:44
juliankA unicorn's hope15:44
xnoxcpaelzer, can it be? i think it's "normal" to not recover the multipaths, but i might be wrong. they claim "it never recovers", or i think it does but "takes a while"15:44
gaughenYES!15:44
cpaelzerxnox: they didn't really answer to Frank, but I'll take a look15:45
xnoxcpaelzer, yeah, try to move it along, by sounding to have multipath knowledge15:46
cpaelzerthe great pretender ...15:46
bdmurrayI'll test the reinstall option and see if it still exists15:49
xnoxcool15:49
bdmurrayOkay, I think that's good for today.15:50
xnoxbdmurray, you might need to trick the iso to think it is disco final....15:50
xnoxbdmurray, by like bind-mounting final sounding things into .disk15:50
xnoxand /etc/os-release et.al.15:50
bdmurraythat sounds involved15:50
xnoxbdmurray, cause disco-on-disco will currently thinkg it is an upgrade from disco-to-19.0415:50
xnoxinstead of 19.04-on-19.04 reinstall15:51
xnox#topic Team proposed-migration report15:51
xnox#link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs15:51
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
rbalintu-u fix is on the way to unlock python-apt15:52
xnoxdoko, do we need the new fuse?15:53
dokothere was a reason ...15:55
xnoxbut the regression in fuse-zip is real15:55
xnoxso we shouldn't let new fuse in, as is at the moment.15:55
xnox(as seen in the rebuild of fuse-zip, with new fuse support)15:55
xnoxnest up gdb/python3.7 kind of related15:56
xnoxpython3.7 are blocked by openssl 1.1.1b compat (there is a bug report aobut that)15:56
dokothere's a new comment on the python issue15:57
xnoxbut should we let gdb through then?15:57
xnox(cause python3.X->gdb is openssl issues, and shouldn't block new gdb)15:57
xnoxrbalint, python-apt blocked by unattended-upgrades regressions. Did you look at that?15:57
rbalintu-u fix is on the way to unlock python-apt15:58
dokohttps://bugs.python.org/issue3599815:58
xnoxdoko, fuse has uint/int abi bugs in the interface layear, which cuases hangs in fuse-zip testsuite, that hangs the VM.15:58
xnoxrbalint, great!15:58
xnoxre:perl -> there is progress in debian, the gdn/ndb regression compat is real, but we don't know if we care about acient dbs to be usable on new releases.15:59
xnoxi guess i should upload that into ubuntu direct, instead of waiting for the fixed up upload in debian.15:59
vorlonwhy?  I don't think it's urgent15:59
vorlonI think we should let the Debian maintainer fix it15:59
vorlonunless we think that's not happening soon16:00
xnoxvorlon, well it is urgent as IBM observe it, in their testing of disco.16:00
xnoxvorlon, it was raised as a partner hwe issue.16:00
vorlonit's buggy and they've identified the bug and it will be fixed by release16:01
xnoxok.16:01
vorlonI don't think IBM have said it's blocking them from testing other stuff, have they?16:01
xnox#topic AOB16:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
gaughenno16:07
vorlonnone here16:07
xnox#endmeeting16:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Mar 21 16:07:54 2019 UTC.16:07
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-03-21-15.03.moin.txt16:07
xnoxrunning meetings is hard16:09
tewardi'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks so xnox XD16:16
xnoxvorlon, cyphermox - i nominate rbalint to run the next meeting.16:16
vorlon:)16:16
xnoxthat is my revenge.16:16
xnoxunicorn16:17
gaughen:-)16:17
rbalintxnox, revenge on whom ? :-)16:17
xnoxi'll keep that to myself.16:18
cyphermoxxnox: we should changet the meeting template so next chair selection is part of the meeting17:30
xnoxcyphermox, yes!22:40

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