[00:00] <netritious> not sure I understand the corelation of other, non-Ubuntu projects moving to snap correlates to ubuntu throwing int he towel?
[00:00] <netritious> I don;t disagree that they may be throwing int he towel
[00:01] <netritious> just not 100 on what you meant there, and sorry for the typos, one handed atm, food, hungry...lol
[00:03] <Unit193> Right, so some/a lot of snaps are maintained by Ubuntu or Canonical people, as they bundle libraries and whatnot it's a bit easier to just cram everything in.  Certain packages such as lxd, chromium, firefox, etc got exemptions so the latest version is maintained in LTS releases.  They are now dropping packages because one has to put a little more effort in to it in order to get it working on some
[00:03] <Unit193> versions of system libraries (eg with firefox and rust, sometimes the version of rust is too old so either needs updated or aspects disabled.)
[00:04] <netritious> is distributing via snap easier than building a package for distribution via apt?
[00:05] <netritious> I've only built one package for apt and I cheated and used checkinstall? i think that was it, and I have no idea how snap packages are built.
[00:06] <Unit193> You don't have to worry about versions of libraries (or patched libraries) or anything like that, so it's a bit more of a careless process, IMO.
[00:06] <netritious> i do get the point of snap, and being able to isolate different versions of the same lib....
[00:07] <netritious> oic, that's what you mean by throwing in the towel?
[00:07] <Unit193> This makes packaging node stuff much more simple as you can bundle all the node stuff into one snap, this also means you can easily have many different versions of openssl and I'd hesitate to trust all snap maintainers to keep up with that.
[00:08] <netritious> good point
[00:08] <netritious> s
[00:08] <Unit193> netritious: I kind of read that as "We can no longer properly maintain chromium, so we'll just use this bundled squashfs version and call it 'good enough'"
[00:09] <Unit193> Now, snaps do usually link to some system libraries, from what I understand.  So while I'm not sure if any do bundle openssl, there doesn't seem to be any restrictions preventing that from happening, as noted in the whole 'malware' event.
[00:11] <netritious> wait, there was a malware event? related to snap? how did I miss that lol
[00:11] <Unit193> Someone found malware in the appstore, seems the general answer to it was "It's up to users to review what they install", IIRC?
[00:12] <netritious> that is messed up
[00:12] <netritious> to leave to end users
[00:13] <netritious> brb in 10-20
[00:13] <netritious> store run
[00:20] <Unit193> Only thing I'm finding, they removed it.
[00:20] <Unit193> https://itsfoss.com/snapstore-cryptocurrency-saga/ I'm not sure if it was this or not, if it was then they did indeed remove the offending snaps.
[00:33] <netritious> b
[00:41] <netritious> interesting read
[00:41] <Unit193> So until verified, I'll rescend the statement about 'malware'
[00:42] <netritious> still sneaky though
[00:42] <Unit193> And something Debian's ftp-masters wouldn't have approved.
[00:43] <Unit193> So: My time with Ubuntu seems a bit limited, if they push anything I use to snap only I'll either maintain it in a PPA myself, or move to Debian.  Until then, I'll be more than happy to help Xubuntu and continue MOTU'ing it up.
[00:44] <Unit193> netritious: So, how about you?
[00:44] <Unit193> I've ranted more than enough for a while. :P
[00:44] <netritious> still on the fence.
[00:45] <netritious> well I don;t mind that :D
[00:45] <netritious> I mean, ubuntu /is/ the defacto cloud os
[00:45] <netritious> kind of hard for me to avoid
[00:46] <netritious> and as long as ubuntu/canonical can be diligent with some sort of review process, shouldn't be worse than andrid eco system lol
[00:46] <netritious> *android
[00:46] <netritious> idk, again, undecided
[00:47] <netritious> i've actually been getting ready to try freebsd again, or maybe openbsd
[00:48] <netritious> but both of those projects have a whole different set of problems
[00:49] <Unit193> Well, Ubuntu is easier than Debian to contribute to, since I can upload anything that is in universe and don't have to stick to my own packages, but other than that Debian is pretty great.
[00:49] <netritious> I agree, I liked Debian the last time I tried, and was able to accomplish things I couldn't with Ubuntu
[00:51] <netritious> so. many. choices. ugh. lol
[00:52] <netritious> I also think it's weird that backports are enabled by default on ubuntu. when did that happen?
[00:52] <netritious> IIRC backports aren't as throughly scrutinized
[00:54] <Unit193> They're not enabled by default, they're just in sources.list by default.  Also Ubuntu backports aren't really a thing except for those few people that can self-review, which is pretty awful if you ask me...
[00:55] <Unit193> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Format#NotAutomatic_and_ButAutomaticUpgrades
[00:55] <netritious> hm, could have sworn that I had to comment out backports in sources.list
[00:56] <Unit193> Yes, because it is listed, but pinned at 100, basically.
[00:57] <netritious> ah ok. thanks for clarifying
[00:57] <Unit193> Sure thing, that doc has the specifics.
[00:59] <netritious> I wonder what role if any CI/CD has in moving to snap. I wonder what part of the build process is different. maybe I just need to get my hands dirty and build a snap package lol
[00:59] <netritious> snort via snap anyone?
[01:05] <netritious> forgot the /s
[01:15] <netritious> ah so snap adds transactional capabilties...you can roll back a package to an earlier version.
[01:16] <netritious> supposedly more easily than apt
[01:16] <netritious> still, seems like a lot of trade off...slower perfomance, more disk space, weird permission issues, etc.
[01:18] <netritious> also, snap reminds me a lot of bedrock linux
[01:18] <netritious> which until just now I didn't realize was still in development
[01:54] <Unit193> Also: Someone in the KDE channel remarked that GTK stuff doesn't take into consideration themes, so GTK snaps look awful in KDE?
[02:29] <netritious> hm
[02:32] <netritious> I wonder if this is going to turn out like ubuntu touch where it's a pretty good idea, but to many hurdles to actually pull it off.
[14:15] <netritious> good morning