IrcsomeBot* DarinMiller uses super+space for krunner for same reason00:10
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IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> Alt+space is just wired into my brain now.01:10
valorieme too01:10
valorieI would never use alt+f301:11
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> @ahoneybun, for which thing?01:11
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> @valorie, exactly all the alt+f# shortcuts in Plasma are terrible only one makes sense01:12
valorieI mean I would never use that menu01:12
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> why not?01:12
valoriewhat's the point?01:13
valorieuse the keyboard to open a menu and then have to mouse over to the menu?01:13
valorieand I don't use a mouse, just a touchpad01:13
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> huh? you can use the arrow keys to navigate the menu01:13
valoriejust have never worked that way01:14
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> that menu makes it fast to move windows to different desktops, monitors, and easily remove the borders on a window . . . all kinds of stuff01:14
valoriethat's the problem -- everyone has a different workflow01:15
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> it also works with keyboard sequence shortcuts01:15
valorieand it's hard to understand the needs of someone who works differently01:15
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> thats not a problem, people can ignore it forever and it not affect them.01:15
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> for those who dont use it, it doesnt matter what the shortcut is01:15
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> however the massive amount of people who do use it, they expect a specific shortcut because it is a standard across Windows and every other Linux DE. Plasma always fighting standards is painful to me01:16
valorieI guess discuss it with Nate01:17
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> that will happen as well01:17
valoriehe's willing to fight for reasonable changes01:19
valorieand since I have no skin in this game, I'm not01:19
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> I dont care what KDE Plasma does. I care what Kubuntu does. I have given up on contributing to KDE Plasma itself because they shut down suggestions with the worst kind of logic imaginable so its a complete waste of time I feel. Hence why I contribute to Kubuntu. At least one group can prove to the Plasma team that sometimes their ideas arent gold01:21
valorieKubuntu has often been a "test kitchen" for Plasma and apps01:25
valorieNeon is the "testing release" sort of, but vanilla01:25
valorieand our changes have sometimes made it back into Plasma01:26
valoriesorry to hear that you have a rocky relationships with the Plasma devs01:27
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> I always recommend Kubuntu over Neon these days because Plasma has some very awful defaults. Kubuntu has those fixed. :D I hope the Plasma team realizes their mistake and embraces the fixes but considering they argued with me for over 3 weeks about a topic that NO ONE had any valid points that negated the suggestion. I gave up because they didn't care about logic, they cared only about keeping their awful decisions.01:28
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> I dont have any negative relationship as a whole. I dont have anything against them individually but the way they handle input is silly because even if what they have is bad, they dont care because it was their decision and at that point it is just a waste of time01:29
valorieso bad process is what you are saying01:29
valoriethere are certainly some stubborn germans in there01:29
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> bad process and no one interested in fixing user experience. There was even a case where someone argued against my suggestion with "but traditions" . . .01:30
valorieNate is certainly interested in fixing UX01:31
valoriein all kinds of ways01:31
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> going back to the commit that made the dumb change it just said "lets try this" and that was the debate they had with doing it then and now its so painful to change stuff01:31
valorieincluding defaults01:31
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> Nate and I have discussed many things in this area. Unfortunately, he accepted their terrible logic as also not worth the battle. I understand his viewpoint but I will continue to mock Plasma for their terrible defaults.01:32
valoriewhich is why he contributes to Kubuntu for similar reasons to you01:32
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> I typically say that I love Plasma for what it offers but the defaults are trash01:32
valorieI don't like using emotionally-laden language like that because it just locks people into a position01:33
valorierather than an problem-solving attitude01:34
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> I only do it because they dont want to solve the problem . . . so since its already locked out meh01:35
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valoriechange is the only constant01:35
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IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> fair point01:36
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* valorie goes off to fold clothes01:37
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IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> @MichaelTunnell, Krunner01:56
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> does that change your opinion on what should or should not be default?02:03
IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> I think it's fine. It's so quick to hit those two keys next to each other.02:07
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> do you think Super+Space is not a good option?02:07
valorieit's fine02:10
valoriejust used to alt+space by now02:10
valoriewas used to alt+f4 before02:10
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> alt+f3, f4 kills apps02:10
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valoriewhatever it is, doesn't work for krunner anymore it seems02:11
valorieand I use krunner *all* the time02:12
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IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> alt+space = standard function people expect for window context menu. … is this shortcut more important than adhering to a standard? … or better yet, more important than just changing it for your preference rather than forcing people to learn the other arbitrary shortcut for the function they were expecting?02:12
valorieno, I change with the times02:12
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> super+space is used by nothing on basically no system so it is primed for krunner usage. Alt+Space is used on everything else.02:13
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> do you know why Alt+Space was chosen in the first place?02:13
valorieI don't think back then I was even in #plasma02:14
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> someone thought that KDE Plasma . . . you know the DE that has a Windows familiarity on purpose to be nicer to new users . . . should use a freaking keyboard shortcut from MacOS02:14
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> @valorie, Alt+Space is very very new02:14
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> for Plasma its new I mean02:14
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> maybe 2 years02:15
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> MacOS doesnt even have an alt key. The reason was because the location of Alt is the same as the location of Command for Mac. This kind of logic is why KDE hurts02:16
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> there is no negative for it being Super+Space as the default. People who like the alt+space because they are used to it, they can just change it back. … Alt+Space would be put to that context menu will be abl02:22
Eickmeyer^Deleted in TG, ignore02:23
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Just trying to help. :)02:23
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> it was prematurely posted so I deleted, rewriting02:23
IrcsomeBot<Eickmeyer> Figured.02:23
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> Super+Space being KRunner = no negative conflict. … Alt+Space being KRunner = is a negative conflict. … Those who want Alt+Space can just change it back to Alt+Space. … Making Alt+Space the default for the context menu makes it transitionable for new users who expect it to be there. … There is basically no negative to making this change other than people who are already used to it. However, if things aren't change02:25
IrcsomeBotbecause some people are used to something then nothing will ever change.02:25
valoriehey claydoh, ltns02:36
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IrcsomeBot<myfenris> plasma-workspace-wayland/disco 4:5.15.4-0ubuntu1 i386 <— not avaible for 64?03:08
valoriethat's weird03:46
valoriewe don't do i386 anymore03:46
IrcsomeBot<myfenris> I forgot to highlight before since I’m not often using wayland but put it as option menu list at gdm3 @ sddm03:56
valorieI should try wayland on my travel lappy03:59
valoriesince it has no nvidia04:00
valorieI think this one will be awhile getting to wayland04:00
valorieb/c nvidia04:00
IrcsomeBot<myfenris> 👍🏻04:16
IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> wayland works on NVIDIA to a degree.04:50
IrcsomeBot<ahoneybun> Ian at work is using it.04:50
IrcsomeBot<MichaelTunnell> I recently got amd gpu so I should do some Wayland testing04:54
ahoneybunI often use Wayland with GNOME on my Galago Pro.04:56
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BluesKajHi folks12:44
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-kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_akonadi build #47: STILL FAILING in 45 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_akonadi/47/23:53
-kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kio-extras build #42: STILL UNSTABLE in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kio-extras/42/23:54
-kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kcalutils build #42: FAILURE in 4 min 9 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kcalutils/42/23:57

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