[00:10] <IrcsomeBot> * DarinMiller uses super+space for krunner for same reason
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[01:10] <IrcsomeBot> <ahoneybun> Alt+space is just wired into my brain now.
[01:10] <valorie> me too
[01:11] <valorie> I would never use alt+f3
[01:11] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> @ahoneybun, for which thing?
[01:12] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> @valorie, exactly all the alt+f# shortcuts in Plasma are terrible only one makes sense
[01:12] <valorie> I mean I would never use that menu
[01:12] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> why not?
[01:13] <valorie> what's the point?
[01:13] <valorie> use the keyboard to open a menu and then have to mouse over to the menu?
[01:13] <valorie> and I don't use a mouse, just a touchpad
[01:13] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> huh? you can use the arrow keys to navigate the menu
[01:14] <valorie> ok
[01:14] <valorie> just have never worked that way
[01:14] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> that menu makes it fast to move windows to different desktops, monitors, and easily remove the borders on a window . . . all kinds of stuff
[01:15] <valorie> that's the problem -- everyone has a different workflow
[01:15] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> it also works with keyboard sequence shortcuts
[01:15] <valorie> and it's hard to understand the needs of someone who works differently
[01:15] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> thats not a problem, people can ignore it forever and it not affect them.
[01:15] <valorie> right
[01:15] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> for those who dont use it, it doesnt matter what the shortcut is
[01:16] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> however the massive amount of people who do use it, they expect a specific shortcut because it is a standard across Windows and every other Linux DE. Plasma always fighting standards is painful to me
[01:17] <valorie> I guess discuss it with Nate
[01:17] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> that will happen as well
[01:19] <valorie> he's willing to fight for reasonable changes
[01:19] <valorie> and since I have no skin in this game, I'm not
[01:21] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> I dont care what KDE Plasma does. I care what Kubuntu does. I have given up on contributing to KDE Plasma itself because they shut down suggestions with the worst kind of logic imaginable so its a complete waste of time I feel. Hence why I contribute to Kubuntu. At least one group can prove to the Plasma team that sometimes their ideas arent gold
[01:25] <valorie> Kubuntu has often been a "test kitchen" for Plasma and apps
[01:25] <valorie> Neon is the "testing release" sort of, but vanilla
[01:26] <valorie> and our changes have sometimes made it back into Plasma
[01:27] <valorie> sorry to hear that you have a rocky relationships with the Plasma devs
[01:28] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> I always recommend Kubuntu over Neon these days because Plasma has some very awful defaults. Kubuntu has those fixed. :D I hope the Plasma team realizes their mistake and embraces the fixes but considering they argued with me for over 3 weeks about a topic that NO ONE had any valid points that negated the suggestion. I gave up because they didn't care about logic, they cared only about keeping their awful decisions.
[01:29] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> I dont have any negative relationship as a whole. I dont have anything against them individually but the way they handle input is silly because even if what they have is bad, they dont care because it was their decision and at that point it is just a waste of time
[01:29] <valorie> so bad process is what you are saying
[01:29] <valorie> there are certainly some stubborn germans in there
[01:30] <valorie> :-)
[01:30] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> bad process and no one interested in fixing user experience. There was even a case where someone argued against my suggestion with "but traditions" . . .
[01:31] <valorie> Nate is certainly interested in fixing UX
[01:31] <valorie> in all kinds of ways
[01:31] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> going back to the commit that made the dumb change it just said "lets try this" and that was the debate they had with doing it then and now its so painful to change stuff
[01:31] <valorie> including defaults
[01:32] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> Nate and I have discussed many things in this area. Unfortunately, he accepted their terrible logic as also not worth the battle. I understand his viewpoint but I will continue to mock Plasma for their terrible defaults.
[01:32] <valorie> which is why he contributes to Kubuntu for similar reasons to you
[01:32] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> I typically say that I love Plasma for what it offers but the defaults are trash
[01:33] <valorie> I don't like using emotionally-laden language like that because it just locks people into a position
[01:34] <valorie> rather than an problem-solving attitude
[01:35] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> I only do it because they dont want to solve the problem . . . so since its already locked out meh
[01:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project cosmic_stable_kdeconnect-kde build #13: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/cosmic_stable_kdeconnect-kde/13/
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[01:35] <valorie> change is the only constant
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[01:36] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> fair point
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[01:37]  * valorie goes off to fold clothes
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[01:56] <IrcsomeBot> <ahoneybun> @MichaelTunnell, Krunner
[02:03] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> does that change your opinion on what should or should not be default?
[02:07] <IrcsomeBot> <ahoneybun> I think it's fine. It's so quick to hit those two keys next to each other.
[02:07] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> do you think Super+Space is not a good option?
[02:10] <valorie> it's fine
[02:10] <valorie> imo
[02:10] <valorie> just used to alt+space by now
[02:10] <valorie> was used to alt+f4 before
[02:10] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> alt+f3, f4 kills apps
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[02:11] <valorie> whatever it is, doesn't work for krunner anymore it seems
[02:12] <valorie> and I use krunner *all* the time
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[02:12] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> alt+space = standard function people expect for window context menu. … is this shortcut more important than adhering to a standard? … or better yet, more important than just changing it for your preference rather than forcing people to learn the other arbitrary shortcut for the function they were expecting?
[02:12] <valorie> no, I change with the times
[02:13] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> super+space is used by nothing on basically no system so it is primed for krunner usage. Alt+Space is used on everything else.
[02:13] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> do you know why Alt+Space was chosen in the first place?
[02:13] <valorie> nope
[02:14] <valorie> I don't think back then I was even in #plasma
[02:14] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> someone thought that KDE Plasma . . . you know the DE that has a Windows familiarity on purpose to be nicer to new users . . . should use a freaking keyboard shortcut from MacOS
[02:14] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> @valorie, Alt+Space is very very new
[02:14] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> for Plasma its new I mean
[02:15] <valorie> ok
[02:15] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> maybe 2 years
[02:16] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> MacOS doesnt even have an alt key. The reason was because the location of Alt is the same as the location of Command for Mac. This kind of logic is why KDE hurts
[02:22] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> there is no negative for it being Super+Space as the default. People who like the alt+space because they are used to it, they can just change it back. … Alt+Space would be put to that context menu will be abl
[02:23] <Eickmeyer> ^Deleted in TG, ignore
[02:23] <IrcsomeBot> <Eickmeyer> Just trying to help. :)
[02:23] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> it was prematurely posted so I deleted, rewriting
[02:23] <IrcsomeBot> <Eickmeyer> Figured.
[02:25] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> Super+Space being KRunner = no negative conflict. … Alt+Space being KRunner = is a negative conflict. … Those who want Alt+Space can just change it back to Alt+Space. … Making Alt+Space the default for the context menu makes it transitionable for new users who expect it to be there. … There is basically no negative to making this change other than people who are already used to it. However, if things aren't change
[02:25] <IrcsomeBot> because some people are used to something then nothing will ever change.
[02:36] <valorie> hey claydoh, ltns
[02:36] <valorie> oops
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[03:08] <IrcsomeBot> <myfenris> plasma-workspace-wayland/disco 4:5.15.4-0ubuntu1 i386 <— not avaible for 64?
[03:46] <valorie> that's weird
[03:46] <valorie> we don't do i386 anymore
[03:56] <IrcsomeBot> <myfenris> I forgot to highlight before since I’m not often using wayland but put it as option menu list at gdm3 @ sddm
[03:59] <valorie> I should try wayland on my travel lappy
[04:00] <valorie> since it has no nvidia
[04:00] <valorie> I think this one will be awhile getting to wayland
[04:00] <valorie> b/c nvidia
[04:16] <IrcsomeBot> <myfenris> 👍🏻
[04:50] <IrcsomeBot> <ahoneybun> wayland works on NVIDIA to a degree.
[04:50] <IrcsomeBot> <ahoneybun> Ian at work is using it.
[04:54] <valorie> interesting
[04:54] <IrcsomeBot> <MichaelTunnell> I recently got amd gpu so I should do some Wayland testing
[04:56] <ahoneybun> I often use Wayland with GNOME on my Galago Pro.
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[12:44] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
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[16:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
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[23:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_okteta build #36: STILL FAILING in 8 min 47 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_okteta/36/
[23:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kwin build #58: STILL FAILING in 11 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kwin/58/
[23:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_akonadi-mime build #27: FAILURE in 4 min 52 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_akonadi-mime/27/
[23:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_sink build #11: FAILURE in 17 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_sink/11/
[23:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_breeze build #39: FIXED in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_breeze/39/
[23:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kfilemetadata build #40: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kfilemetadata/40/
[23:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_libkeduvocdocument build #38: STILL FAILING in 36 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_libkeduvocdocument/38/
[23:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_purpose build #46: FIXED in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_purpose/46/
[23:38] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_baloo build #42: FAILURE in 5 min 12 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_baloo/42/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kcontacts build #34: STILL FAILING in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kcontacts/34/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kalzium build #27: STILL UNSTABLE in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kalzium/27/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kcalcore build #28: FAILURE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kcalcore/28/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_akonadi build #47: STILL FAILING in 45 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_akonadi/47/
[23:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kio-extras build #42: STILL UNSTABLE in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kio-extras/42/
[23:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kcalutils build #42: FAILURE in 4 min 9 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kcalutils/42/