[00:02] <dirtycajun> blackflow because it says it will in the man page
[00:02] <sappheiros> is it bad to forcequit muon package manager if clicking 'cancel' doesn't get it to cancel?
[00:02] <sappheiros> i had removed the brave repository-thingy(?) discussed above thorugh a menu settings option
[00:07] <maximo> hello
[00:07] <maximo> hola
[00:17] <GuestAgain> hi all, anyone have partition advice for a fresh dual boot win7/ubuntu? the drive is 500 gb on a laptop. installing win7 first but i want to partition with gparted before install
[00:18] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: install Windows. Use the entire drive. Then you'll have the option to resize it during the Ubuntu install
[00:18] <GuestAgain> installing windows first ofc
[00:18] <GuestAgain> leftyfb: but why repartition i'm able to partition with grub or gparted on livefs
[00:19] <GuestAgain> erm adjust partitions that is, when i can make them in the first place
[00:19] <CyberManifest> GuestAgain, what advice are you seeking?
[00:25] <GuestAgain> CyberManifest: i'm seeking advice on pre-partitioning a 500g hard disk for a laptop to dual boot with windows 7 and ubuntu 18lts, both fresh installs. i think most of the space on the drive should be shared between the 2, but curious what others have experienced as i don't want to have to adjust partitions later.
[00:26] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: install Windows. Use the entire drive. Then you'll have the option to resize it during the Ubuntu install. It's pretty simple. Why complicate it?
[00:26] <CyberManifest> GuestAgain, I read that before; you'll have to be more specific in "seeking advice on pre-partitioning" what "advice" are you seeking? I have Linux Mint Dual booted between Windows 10
[00:26] <GuestAgain> fwiw it's a sony vaio i5 some years old but still planned for various usage including a lot of audio and video production which i will mostly use external drives to store assets but likely need to store a number of assets like audio and video files on native hdd
[00:27] <GuestAgain> leftyfb: ok i'll try your method
[00:27] <GuestAgain> CyberManifest: thank you for your responses
[00:28] <GuestAgain> i assumed it would be good to create a partition to access between the filesystems...
[00:29] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: you can do that during the ubuntu install as well
[00:29] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: or using the live cd/usb after
[00:29] <GuestAgain> i had thought windows 100g ubuntu 100g then 300g swap
[00:29] <GuestAgain> i have both doze and buntu live fs
[00:29] <CyberManifest> GuestAgain, "swap" is not the same thing as "share partition"
[00:29] <GuestAgain> no problem to apportion with either
[00:30] <GuestAgain> CyberManifest: yes you're right there i know
[00:30] <CyberManifest> swap should typically be no more than double your RAM
[00:30] <GuestAgain> dunno who i'm talking with
[00:30] <GuestAgain> but yes i'm aware swap is a unix space
[00:30] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: if you have 16G of memory or more, don't bother with swap
[00:31] <CyberManifest> leftyfb, what about hibernation mode?
[00:31] <GuestAgain> i should have been more specific i didn't mean to offend lol
[00:31] <CyberManifest> swap is generally good idea for that
[00:31] <leftyfb> CyberManifest: I guess, if you want that sort of thing. I have NEVER seen that used on a regular basis and not cause problems
[00:31] <GuestAgain> anyway so it's NOT a good idea to partition the fs before install of windows 7??? i had read it was...
[00:32] <CyberManifest> leftyfb, works fine here on Dell Laptop
[00:32] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: it doesn't mattermuch. But it's a lot simpler to just do it during the ubuntu install once Windows is all done and happy
[00:32] <CyberManifest> GuestAgain, I did, because I wanted a specific partition scheme
[00:33] <CyberManifest> GuestAgain, but I used the installer to do it; I think the installer will overwrite most of what you do anyways unless you are careful and specific for it not to
[00:38] <GuestAgain> it's pretty easy for the installer to not overwrite your partition tables iirc
[00:38] <GuestAgain> i kinda don't want to do this twice so i was asking advice beforehand
[00:40] <GuestAgain> honestly my biggest concern is filesystem provisioning. what is the average install size of ubuntu 18lts?
[00:41] <leftyfb> you'll be fine with 100G
[00:41] <GuestAgain> i have some idea of what i need for software on the 'doze part, but if i'm not installing much 3rd party softs what would you all partition for a linux space?
[00:42] <GuestAgain> leftyfb: ok i think i'll take your advice on the 100g being ok, i think so also. any advice on shared partitions?
[00:42] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: it depends on your needs and use. Split it 50/50 and change it later if you need to
[00:42] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: no. It depends on your personal needs
[00:43] <GuestAgain> i was going to make it 100g ubunut/ 150g windows/ 250g shared space seems like where i am leaning as i have more windows 64 apps than 100g will probably allow with updates to the os etc
[00:44] <GuestAgain> my personal needs with linux are few on this pc, i am more of a bsd guy
[00:44] <GuestAgain> have a bsd server already
[00:46] <GuestAgain> ubutnut/ubuntu*  sorry typo girlfriend came home i was typing too fast i think
[00:54] <GuestAgain> anyway so ubuntu 18 100gb // windows 7 150gb // shared space 250gb does that sound stupid?
[00:54] <GuestAgain> i'd rather not repartition anything here.
[00:54] <GuestAgain> advice appreciated. insults also ok :)
[00:55] <GuestAgain> going to gparted now, fsck it
[00:57] <Lisanna1> Hey all. Looking for a simple way to declaratively manage my apt / dpkg installs. Declarative as in, update some config file with the list of apt and local .deb packages I want to be installed on my system, and run a command which takes care of the necessary install/remove actions. Is there a tool that would let me do this without too much hassle?
[01:02] <tds> Lisanna1: it may be a little more than you want (a bash script might be more appropriate if that's the entire aim), but ansible comes to mind
[01:04] <Lisanna1> tds: Okay, I'll check it out. Yeah it's probably a bit more than I need but as long as it doesn't take too long to setup and can give me something approaching declarative debian package management, I'll be happy
[01:05] <tds> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/modules/apt_module.html - that's probably the module you'd want, and it includes some example as well
[01:06] <GuestAgain> ah well moving on with a fat32 shared partition
[01:07] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: use NTFS
[01:07] <stevendale> Morning
[01:07] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: formatted by Windows after you create the partition during the ubuntu install
[01:07] <Lisanna1> OK cool. The apt module can do both regular apt packages and local deb packages. Looks like that will work, I'll give it a shot. Thanks :)
[01:08] <GuestAgain> ntfs can be accessed by ubuntu?
[01:08] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: yes. And it's got better performance than fat32
[01:08] <GuestAgain> ok tyvm leftyfb
[01:08] <stevendale> GuestAgain Yes it can, unless it's been used for hiberbation by Windows, in which case you'll need to run ntfsfix before Linux can access it
[01:09] <GuestAgain> i'm aware of ntfs > fat32 but didn't know linux accessed these partitions
[01:09] <GuestAgain> ste
[01:09] <stevendale> GuestAgain Linux can access everything except Apple's brand new file system
[01:09] <GuestAgain> stevendale: thank you yes i remember having to use the ntfsfix command previously on another system
[01:10] <GuestAgain> oh how fun, thanks apple
[01:10] <GuestAgain> but a non-sarcastic thank you to steve
[01:24] <dirtycajun> I want to clarify before i do this. If i have gotten all the inode numbers of the files with multiply-claimed blocks from e2fsck... i can cancel and blow them away and then i will be fine right? Or do i need to run e2fsck again after...
[01:32] <GuestAgain> fwiw partitioning from gparted failed, had to use windows installer to re-partition as was previously suggested here. /me bows
[01:33] <GuestAgain> that being said i'm still partitioning for a shared ntfs space between the filesystems
[01:36] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: I would put your shared partition at the end
[01:36] <leftyfb> GuestAgain: also, if gparted failed, it was because the windows ntfs partition was dirty. You'll need to run chkdsk /f and reboot TWICE from within windows
[01:38] <GuestAgain> leftyfb: i put it at the end, idunno why i said between, more or less metaphorically
[01:38] <GuestAgain> also i just wiped the partition table and used the doze installer to part it
[01:38] <GuestAgain> still going with similar scheme
[01:39] <GuestAgain> leftyfb: thank you for all the advice i do appreciate it, i think i have seen you here or there once before.
[01:40] <airsoftmodels> i just installed linux on a friends laptop.
[01:41] <airsoftmodels> a compaq presario m2000
[01:42] <leftyfb> airsoftmodels: did you have a support question?
[01:43] <airsoftmodels> no.  just saying
[01:58] <Wild_Man> Cold and raining in May, such strange weather
[01:58] <Wild_Man> Sorry wrong channel
[02:51] <bigDaddee00> hello?
[02:52] <bigDaddee00> im using xubuntu because its lightweight. if i install a theme could that potentially require more resources from the computer?
[02:56] <bigDaddee00> hello?
[02:58] <helpmewiththis> hello
[02:58] <helpmewiththis> is anyone here?
[02:58] <helpmewiththis> can anyone see my texts?  i cant figure out freenode
[02:59] <helpmewiththis> can someone please say yes if they can see my texts
[02:59] <gdb> I can see what you're saying.
[02:59] <helpmewiththis> thanks. i was in other room and its just silence.  i never even know if im logged in with freenode. its such a bizare system
[03:00] <gdb> I don't want to answer with certainty, but generally a theme does things like "make the titlebars look different", or change the desktop wallpaper.  So my belief would be that you're fine installing new themes and they won't have any resource impact on your computer aside from some small bit of storage.
[03:00] <helpmewiththis> i need help with the new lubuntu but its stone dead over there
[03:00] <gdb> Oh, that was to bigDaddee00.  What's your issue, helpmewiththis?
[03:01] <helpmewiththis> i am not computer literate.  but tried lubuntu. it seemed very fast s odecided to use on old 1gb ram laptop.   but i cant do much.  i cant add my app to my taskbar as a shortcut for a start.  they just wont go there.  tried left mouse, right mouse. nothing works
[03:02] <helpmewiththis> lubuntu 19 the new one
[03:02] <gdb> I'm afraid I can't help with that.  I'm not a desktop Linux guy.  Perhaps someone else can pick up your issue.
[03:03] <helpmewiththis> and also the gui software center freezes, unusable.
[03:03] <helpmewiththis> but there is letrally almost no help with it online.  lubuntu is a great idea.. but there is noone to help
[03:04] <helpmewiththis> i just want something fast to use on a very old crappy laptop.   keep jumping between os's.   cant find one i can actually use.  the ones i can use are too slow.
[03:08] <helpmewiththis> this is why most people use windows.
[03:09] <light_> asdf
[03:09] <light_> what does this do
[03:09] <light_> Hi, everyone
[03:10] <helpmewiththis> hi light
[03:10] <light_> it's my first time to use irc
[03:10] <light_> i am still confusing
[03:10] <helpmewiththis> yea, i agree,  i cant even tell if im online in chat room or not. crazy system
[03:11] <light_> this is much more different with Chinese qq
[03:12] <light_> is this communication encrypted
[03:13] <light_> i now get more familar with this program
[03:13] <light_> this is like a chatting room, which everyone can talk
[03:14] <light_> and when someone quit, that message will display
[03:19] <light_> I just trun off the update
[03:19] <light_> which is very annoying
[03:20] <light_> hello
[03:23] <helpmewiththis> can anyone advise me of a working.. WORKING lightweight OS?  all i tried have been crap
[03:26] <light_> why a lightweighted os?
[03:26] <light_> Configuration problem?
[03:26] <Bashing-om> helpmewiththis: "old 1gb ram" >> you will not get much action with only 1 gig of ram. Takes 4 gigs now-a-days for a reasonable experience.
[03:26] <light_> I am using my most powerful to run a full version of ubuntu
[03:27] <helpmewiththis> i have a 1gb ram netbook.  apparently 'lubuntu' takes about 300 mb or less... but i just can get it to work well.. it stoo much like a beta.. like most linux systems.. so shambolic.  the only system i think that is usuable to me is ubuntu, and maybe mint.. the rest.. a disaster
[03:29] <light_> I have been using the ubuntu since 2014, and for 5 years, ubuntu is still disaster in many area
[03:30] <light_> but for stable, it is pretty good now. version 18.10
[03:30] <light_> windows seris is geting an disaster
[03:33] <helpmewiththis> ubuntu is usuable for a non linux user, and a person who hates terminal. like me.
[03:34] <helpmewiththis> ALL linux users pretend linux distros are 'easy to pick up'  but that sutter BS. However, I really think at last, Ubuntu IS usable for the common user.  the rest, are not.
[03:34] <helpmewiththis> and ubuntu will not go in a 1gb laptop.  wont even install
[03:40] <Bashing-om> helpmewiththis: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements/
[03:43] <lutfi> ping
[03:48] <helpmewiththis> the lightwieght OS's are made for 1gb.. some even under.  but they are so shoddily put together, unless you are a computer scientist, they are unusable.
[03:58] <helpmewiththis> im trying to create a shortcut to a program. but dont know its location for the executable command line.  how to get its location?  It's an app called 'SMTube
[04:00] <helpmewiththis> Will someone please help.  i cant stand this anymore.  linux strikes againl  it does this to me everytime i us it
[04:34] <gambl0re> i installed vlc but how do i make video files to default to use vlc player?
[04:44] <tubal> helpmewiththis: Try 'which smtube' at a command line. Sans quotes.
[04:57] <tomreyn> gambl0re: Settings -> Details -> Default Applications -> Video
[04:59] <tomreyn> if this misses some file types: browse to a video in nautilus, right-click -> properties -> open with -> VLC media player
[06:09] <client35> How can I unmap a certain key for language settings?
[06:09] <client35> Whenever I was choosing alt languages, I was asked to map a key and I chose right alt - big mistake. I already use super + space to switch
[06:14] <client35> I don't see anything listed in keyboard or Language Support
[06:26] <client35> never mind - I found it under Tweak Settings> Additional Layout Options > switching to another layout
[07:12] <herol3oy> hi. how can i tail -f to the web browser?
[07:15] <ducasse> herol3oy: what do you mean, exactly?
[07:19] <herol3oy> ducasse: on my server, everytime i have to ssh and tail a log file of a process. i just wonder if i can check it directly from web browser.
[07:19] <herol3oy> clear
[07:24] <ducasse> there are monitoring and administration solutions that might give you access to logs, but it's not their primary function
[07:27] <herol3oy> umm.. alright. thanks.
[07:27] <herol3oy> exit
[07:33] <zap0> #lubuntu
[07:53] <Brali> Hi! I need some help... So I've been running wine-staging a couple of weeks in order to play warcraft3 on ubuntu 16.04LTS. The game is crashing every now and then, and there is a minor map bug
[07:53] <Brali> I wanted to fix that, so I started fiddling with wine. I had staging 4.7, which I wanted to downgrade since the map bug appeared after some update of wine
[07:54] <Brali> So I installed and uninstalled wine-staging a (too) many times and now, when I install wine-staging
[07:54] <Brali> and then in the console after type wine --version
[07:54] <Brali> It tells me I dont have it installed
[07:55] <Brali> Any tips?
[07:56] <ducasse> Brali: try reinstalling it with 'sudo apt install --reinstall packagename'
[07:57] <Brali> Nope, still getting wine not found
[07:57] <ducasse> is this wine from the ppa?
[07:58] <Brali> I think so, however Im not sure what the ppa really means. I followed these instructions first time I installed it: https://wiki.winehq.org/Ubuntu
[07:59] <Brali> I think you set up a ppa to winehq there, or?
[07:59] <Brali> But now I can simply run the last command 'sudo apt install --install-recommends winehq-staging'
[07:59] <Brali> but=and *
[08:00] <Brali> However wine-staging wont be found by the terminal.
[08:00] <Brali> Also its missing files in the folder /opt/wine-staging
[08:02] <ducasse> yes, those are third-oarty packages. you need to get support from the wine people for those, look at their site for their irc channel
[08:02] <bryanroderyck> hello ubuntu friend , after an upgrade i get this warning message https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2Cdd67NwXP/
[08:03] <Brali> I guess I also should mention that I did 'rm -r /opt/wine-staging' at one point after uninstalling the staging since it wouldnt be removed by autoremove..
[08:03] <Brali> I see
[08:03] <Brali> I'll have a loog
[08:03] <Brali> look
[08:19] <bryanroderyck> anyone can help me with these warning messages?
[08:24] <ikonia> bryanroderyck: what warning messages
[08:24] <bryanroderyck> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2Cdd67NwXP/
[08:26] <ikonia> bryanroderyck: what did you do that caused this
[08:26] <ikonia> bryanroderyck: you appear to be trying to force a package upgrade
[08:27] <bryanroderyck> i have some internal messsage on  python3 but now when upgrade i still have warning msg
[08:27] <ikonia> how did you upgrade
[08:27] <ikonia> upgrade from what to what
[08:28] <bryanroderyck> i upgrade threw the terminal from 16.04 to 18
[08:28] <ikonia> so you did a whole OS upgrade
[08:28] <ikonia> exactly how did you upgrade
[08:29] <bryanroderyck> yes it is removing some files now it should be over in few moment i guess
[08:29] <ikonia> "how" did you upgrade
[08:30] <ikonia> bryanroderyck: you appear to be using python packages that are not part of ubuntu
[08:30] <bryanroderyck> i upgrade with acommand in the terminal
[08:30] <ikonia> bryanroderyck: it appears you have versions of python that are not part of ubuntu
[08:30] <bryanroderyck> how can i remove them?
[08:31] <ikonia> which is probably why you're getting problems with the ugprade process trying to overwrite them
[08:31] <bryanroderyck> wihtout causing any damage to the system
[08:31] <ikonia> I'd like to understand how the packages got on there to understand how to resolve it
[08:32] <bryanroderyck> i use a ppa from jonathonf that cause this mess
[08:33] <ikonia> !ppapurge
[08:33] <ikonia> bryanroderyck: I suspect your upgrade will fail and end up broken as python is pretty core to a lot of ubuntu
[08:34] <bryanroderyck> the upgrade is finish just need restart now
[08:34] <ikonia> I suspect it may not work properly
[08:34] <ikonia> I could be wrong,
[08:35] <bryanroderyck> i restart and im back
[08:35] <bryanroderyck> wait
[08:40] <bryanroderyck> ikonia
[08:40] <tomreyn> bryanroderyck
[08:42] <bryanroderyck> i still have error mesage on the topbar after pugrade and reset
[08:45] <tomreyn> you should really work on traiuning yourself to provide more details.. when asked how you upgraded, don't say "i ran a command on the terminal", say which command you ran in the terminal. when reporting that there is an error message displayed on the top panel of your desktop, don't day just that you "have error mesage on the topbar", but say what this error message says, what it is about, in which context it showed up, post a screenshot etc.
[08:46] <tomreyn> bryanroderyck: ^
[08:46] <tomreyn> this would trmendously help the volunteers here help you.
[08:47] <bryanroderyck> i run this command  do-release-upgrade
[08:47] <rajrajraj> tomreyn: how does a volunteer earn?
[08:48] <bryanroderyck> https://imgur.com/a/jyYp7Jn
[08:48] <tomreyn> bryanroderyck: this was an example, to point out where the problem is.
[08:48] <tomreyn> rajrajraj: that's off-topic for this channel.
[08:48] <bryanroderyck> https://imgur.com/a/f0ZFR37
[08:49] <bryanroderyck> this two image are the error message from the system
[08:49] <tomreyn> bryanroderyck: i think you should do a fresh installation of ubuntu 18.04.2
[08:50] <tomreyn> ...amd64, if your hardware support it
[08:50] <rajrajraj> tomreyn: which channel can I ask that?
[08:50] <tomreyn> !alis | rajrajraj
[08:51] <ducasse> rajrajraj: as tomreyn says, offtopic, but short answer: we don't
[08:52] <ducasse> rajrajraj: please take it to #ubuntu-discuss or #ubuntu-offtopic if you want to talk about it
[09:04] <him-cesjf> Hi! Is cpufreq_stats kernel module not part of 4.15.0-46-generic kernel?
[09:12] <rajrajraj> So many people joined or bots?
[09:13] <ducasse> rajrajraj: many people are idle, but please focus on ubuntu support questions here
[09:14] <rajrajraj> Ok
[09:16] <Brali> Im not getting any response in #winehq, i'll try here again.
[09:16] <Brali> After having installed/uninstalled wine-staging I now cannot get it installed again
[09:17] <Brali> if I run 'sudo apt install --install-recommends winehq-staging' it installs 11 mb, whilst it should be like 400. and when I run 'wine --version' its not found
[09:18] <him-cesjf> ducasse: Hi! Could you help me with a kernel module question?
[09:18] <Brali> if I run 'winecfg' it tells me launcher is missing
[09:18] <ducasse> Brali: as i told you, we don't support third-party packages
[09:18] <Brali> Allright, I didnt understand that part.
[09:18] <Brali> Sorry.
[09:19] <ducasse> him-cesjf: it seems it's not a part of that package, no
[09:19] <him-cesjf> ducasse: Yeah. Any idea how I can build it or read more on it if it compatible? I require it for powertop
[09:19] <ducasse> Brali: make sure you reinstall *all* the wine packages fully if you manually deleted files, though
[09:19] <him-cesjf> Powertop is not running well
[09:21] <ducasse> him-cesjf: to build it you need to get hold of the source, but that's outside what we support, sorry
[09:22] <ducasse> him-cesjf: you should be able to get the source from the repos, though, if it's in the regular kernel tree
[09:23] <him-cesjf> ducasse: Yeah. I will try asking #ubuntu-kernel again
[09:24] <Brali> ducasse: that very last thing you wrote gave me an idea
[09:24] <Brali> thanks. I got it now!
[09:24] <ducasse> Brali: great!
[09:24] <Brali> Or not... ;_;
[09:24] <Brali> :p
[09:25] <ducasse> him-cesjf: you can also try ##linux
[09:25] <him-cesjf> Sure, thanks ducasse
[09:55] <samba35> on ubuntu 16:04:06 i can not see any 16:9 display option for i915
[09:56] <samba35> how to get more 16:9 options ?
[10:01] <ayekat> samba35: what resolutions does it show? what is the native resolution of your monitor?
[10:02] <samba35> this is my monitor https://www.lg.com/in/support/support-product/lg-W1942T-PF
[10:03] <samba35> but 1440*900 and 16:10
[10:04] <ducasse> aiui that depends on the edid your monitor sends, and if it can be read correctly
[10:07] <ayekat> samba35: and what is the resolution you'd like to apply there? what is wrong with using the native resolution?
[10:08] <samba35> 1024 by 768 with 16:9
[10:08] <ayekat> 1024x768 is not a 16:9 resolution - it's 4:3
[10:09] <samba35> ic
[10:09] <samba35> ok then thanks
[10:09] <ayekat> samba35: again, what is wrong with the monitor's native resolution? are the UI elements too small?
[10:10] <samba35> the probllem is on both side 1 inch screen is blank
[10:10] <samba35> not full screen
[10:10] <ayekat> samba35: i see - what resolution is currently set in your system (ubuntu)?
[10:10] <samba35> yes
[10:11] <ayekat> ... that was not a yes/no question
[10:12] <samba35> i mean system has configure the current configu by default
[10:12] <ayekat> samba35: blank space around the image may also be due to your monitor settings, though (independently from your OS settings)
[10:12] <ayekat> check if there is anything on your monitor to change the ratio/zoom/stretching/whatever
[10:12] <samba35>  ok
[10:13] <samba35>  let me change monitor setting then
[10:13] <ayekat> also, check if the monitor's native resolution (1440x900) is actually available in ubuntu
[10:20] <samba35> ok thanks
[10:20] <samba35> it seems problem is fix
[10:20] <samba35> thanks again
[10:29] <Brali> Ubuntu question: is there any way I can see packages that I have changed the last 24 hours or so?
[10:30] <gsan> hell
[10:31] <ducasse> Brali: check the apt logs in /var/log/apt
[10:31] <tomreyn> Brali: Ubuntu answer: if, by "changed", you refer to packages installed or removed, those are listed in /var/log/apt/*.log
[10:33] <Brali> Thanks guys
[10:47] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[10:58] <Brali> can I restore ubuntu to the point of a fresh install? Or do I have to install it fresh?
[10:58] <Michael___> hi guys, I'm trying to install ubuntu along windows 8 but I can't get the damn install media to boot in UEFI
[11:00] <Michael___> I'm now on ubuntu, but whenever I boot my pc it defaults to win 8 instead of giving me a bootloader
[11:00] <Michael___> can anyone help troubleshoot?
[11:01] <j0seph> Michael___: what did you use to create the install media?
[11:01] <ducasse> Brali: no, there's no 'reset to factory defaults' option
[11:01] <Michael___> I downloaded the dekstop 19.something.something iso file and burned it to dvd
[11:01] <Michael___> with the built in win 8 disk burner
[11:02] <Michael___> before that I tried making usb media with rufus, gtp fat32
[11:03] <j0seph> Michael___: I don't see why the USB media wouldn't have worked in that case if you explicitly gave it options compatible with UEFI. Have you gone into your BIOS settings to check whether Legacy mode is turned off in favour of UEFI?
[11:03] <Michael___> I have disabled all of the fast startup technologies from win8 and intel, I've disabled CSM (so no legacy)
[11:04] <Michael___> One thing that might complicate things is I'm on a shitty prefab computer which has a custom American megatrends Aptio version
[11:04] <Michael___> But idk, it should just work
[11:04] <tomreyn> Michael___: what do you do to try and boot off the installer then?
[11:04] <Michael___> I just stick in the installation media and it boots from that (I set the boot order)
[11:04] <Michael___> but whenever I run the command to see if I'm running in efi mode it returns false
[11:05] <tomreyn> which command do you use there?
[11:05] <Michael___> [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] && echo "EFI boot on HDD" || echo "Legacy boot on HDD"
[11:05] <tomreyn> hmm yes this looks fine
[11:06] <tomreyn> is there a key to override the boot order you can press during early boot?
[11:06] <tomreyn> like, without having to enter the 'bis' configuration first?
[11:06] <tomreyn> *'bios'
[11:06] <j0seph> Usually, I can press a key like F12 or F10 to enter a fast-boot menu
[11:06] <Michael___> if I press f12, it beeps, then f8, I get this "select boot device" prompt
[11:06] <Michael___> but sometimes it loads directly into pxe
[11:07] <tomreyn> so you pxe boot normally?
[11:07] <Michael___> nope, didn't even know that was a thing until today
[11:07] <Michael___> yesterday
[11:07] <Michael___> if it helps, I can post my exact mobo model and a partition table of my disk
[11:08] <tomreyn> try to get to the boot menu again and see which options you have. maybe there is "(u)efi cd-rom" or "(u)efi dvd" or just "ubuntu" listed there
[11:08] <Michael___> that's the thing, nothing gets prefixed with uefi
[11:08] <ikonia> what ubuntu release is l9.something.something.iso
[11:09] <Michael___> 19.04
[11:09] <ikonia> trhe iso is called l9 ?
[11:09] <ikonia> ahh it's a 19 not an L9
[11:09] <ikonia> odd font
[11:09] <Michael___> yeah
[11:10] <Michael___> so anyway, that select boot device menu, it only shows the media once. I have seen screenshots where it shows the usb, then below it (u)efi usb, but mine only shows usb
[11:10] <Michael___> but I'm 99.999% certain those screenshots come from a different motherboard setup
[11:11] <tomreyn> Michael___: tell us the exact name of the iso file you downloaded, try writing the usb again with it, this time using balena etcher (http://etcher.io)
[11:12] <Michael___> mobo: mp ms7797 boot-repair info: https://pastebin.com/ANjJB6vv
[11:12] <Michael___> ubuntu-19.04-desktop-amd64.iso
[11:13] <Michael___> (I can't actually run the boot repair, since it complains about not being in uefi mode)
[11:20] <Michael___> maybe my bios just isn't able to boot into any media in efi mode?
[11:20] <coz_> disable efi in bios ?
[11:21] <BluesKaj> yeah, maybe it's in legacy mode
[11:21] <Michael___> yeah it's in legacy mode but my windows install is efi
[11:22] <riotim009[m]> Maybe depends on when you press Fn
[11:22] <coz_> I had this truble , especially with emmc drive. and on a dell desktop
[11:22] <coz_> efi had to be disabled to work
[11:22] <Michael___> so I need to get the thing  to boot from usb in efi mode rather than legacy...
[11:22] <Michael___> seems counterintuitive but I think I'll try disabling efi completely
[11:22] <Michael___> not sure how that will make it dualboot
[11:23] <tomreyn> it won't
[11:23] <coz_> as tomreyn said , it will not
[11:23] <jeremy31> Michael___: Disable Legacy Boot, then you can fix
[11:23] <riotim009[m]> How about set security boot off?
[11:24] <Michael___> there's no option in the bios for secure boot
[11:25] <Michael___> it's prefabbed so it's probably locked down pretty much
[11:25] <coz_> if first OS is installed  efi mode , I am assuming windows, you cannot dual boot unless ubuntu installs with efi, I believe
[11:25] <Michael___> ^ yeah
[11:25] <Michael___> so that's why it's a problem that I can't get my computer to boot from a live media in efi mode
[11:25] <Michael___> so I disabled all of the legacy support/csm/whatever you want to call it
[11:26] <mch> vim /boot/grub/grub.cfg echo menuentry "other os" {insmod ntfs set root=(hd0,1) chainloader +1
[11:26] <coz_> Michael___, if you disable efi now windows probabli will not boot
[11:26] <mch> edit grub.cfg
[11:27] <Michael___> will editing the grub.cfg make the computer use the grub menu instead of booting directly to win8 on startup?
[11:28] <tomreyn> as a reminder:  <tomreyn> Michael___: [..] try writing the usb again [..], this time using balena etcher (http://etcher.io)
[11:28] <mch> using (hd0,0) or (hd0,1)
[11:28] <Michael___> because it says it's installed grub but it just completely skips grub on startup
[11:28] <ledeni> Michael___: laptop or desktop with win10
[11:28] <Michael___> ill try making a new media
[11:28] <Michael___> desktop pc with windows 8.1
[11:29] <coz_> mmm
[11:29] <jeremy31> Michael___: Try within Ubuntu Live for making a new USB ISO
[11:29] <Michael___> if it's any help, the dvd installation media prompted me to make a bios boot partition
[11:31] <tomreyn> that's be expected if the installer ran in bios mode
[11:31] <tomreyn> (and detected gpt partition tables)
[11:32] <ledeni> Michael___: make sure your win is properly shout down like shift + shout down that will properly shout down win
[11:32] <Paddy_NI> Hello I am struggling to get rid of a couple of pixel overlap on my displays. Would anyone here have any idea how I would fix this issue?
[11:32] <Michael___> when using etcher, and selecting ubuntu-19.04-desktop-amd64.iso it gives me an error
[11:32] <Michael___> "It looks like this is not a bootable image"
[11:33] <Michael___> "...does not appear to contain a partition table ..."
[11:33] <mch_> if you had used of the archlinux ,you maybe known how do the grub working
[11:33] <Michael___> hm when continuing anyway it just says the writer process ended unexpectedly
[11:34] <Michael___> no error code
[11:34] <Michael___> this is my first experience with linux
[11:34] <coz_> you'll get the hang of it ")
[11:34] <BluesKaj> must be gpt if windows is using efi
[11:34] <Michael___> really the only reason I'm installing linux is because I couldn't get CDL and openCL to work with my C programs in windows
[11:34] <tomreyn> Michael___: this suggests your downloaded iso image is incomplete / damaged
[11:35] <Michael___> I'll try to redownload
[11:35] <tomreyn> download via bittorrent if that's an option
[11:35] <tomreyn> since it ensures the download is complete
[11:35] <tomreyn> can you tell what the exact file size of the iso you had previously is?
[11:35] <tomreyn> exact as in single bytes
[11:36] <mch_> c program will working in win by mingw
[11:36] <Michael___> oh well no surprise it's 0 bytes
[11:36] <Michael___> yeah but it doesn't find the headers
[11:36] <Michael___> even manually set the PATH
[11:36] <mch_> you can install the mingw program in windows
[11:36] <tomreyn> mch_: we don't usually do windows support on this channel
[11:37] <coz_> Paddy_NI,  you mean overscan?
[11:37] <frankfurtsoup> hi guys how is everyone?
[11:37] <Paddy_NI> coz_, No it's not really overscan
[11:37] <coz_> sorry damn phone again
[11:37] <jeremy31> Michael___: use dd mode in etcher rather than ISO mode and see if that will boot in EFI
[11:38] <Michael___> @jeremy where can I set that?
[11:39] <mch_> i am chinese ,i use linux just for growing up my terrible endlish
[11:40] <jeremy31> Michael___: Sorry, that is an option in Rufus
[11:40] <Michael___> yeah I set that option back when I made it in rufus though
[11:40] <Michael___> still booted in legacy mode
[11:40] <jeremy31> Michael___: Do you have a USB disk/thumbdrive?
[11:40] <Michael___> usk thumbdrive
[11:41] <frankfurtsoup> i was just after a little advice if i may? I currently have a kubuntu box running as a plex and nextcloud server and was wondering if there is any advantage to formatting and installing ubuntu server as the OS instead?
[11:41] <jeremy31> I would download a new ISO from Ubuntu Live and use Statup disk creator to write the ISO to USB
[11:41] <Brali> ducasse: I solved it. At least the wine part. If wc3 will crash remains to see. Thank you for all the help.
[11:43] <Michael___> @jeremy I will do that
[11:43] <Michael___> what's the correct way of tagging someone in IRC?
[11:43] <_Trullo> just type the name before your answer
[11:44] <tomreyn> Michael___: << like this (though : is options)
[11:44] <jeremy31> Michael___: type the first few characters in the name and press TAB to autocomplete
[11:44] <tomreyn> *optional
[11:45] <Michael___> okay "startup disk creator" has completed writing ubuntu-19.04-desktop-amd64.iso to my usb flash drive
[11:45] <tomreyn> Michael___: if this continues to fail, we'll need more hardware + firmware info. run and post this from the (bios booted) ubuntu installer then:    journalctl -b | grep 'DMI:'
[11:45] <Michael___> I'm gonna restart, check my bios settings once more, see if it will finally boot in efi
[11:49] <Brali> Thanks again, bye!
[11:52] <michael___> My computer does not recognize the thumb drive as a bootable media
[11:53] <michael___> (I disabled usb legacy support in the bios settings)
[11:53] <whitehatjelly> whats the name of inbuilt archive manager in ubuntu. My pal needs help
[11:54] <tomreyn> "usb legacy support" refers to supporting lower usb protocol versions
[11:54] <tomreyn> whitehatjelly: file-roller
[11:55] <tomreyn> michael___: in case your usb stick supports usb 1.1 only, you'll need to keep *usb* legacy support enabled
[11:56] <TJ-> tomreyn: actually, in my experience, it means the firmware will provide firmware services to the boot-loader to access USB storage devices
[11:56] <michael____> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ journalctl -b | grep 'DMI:' May 11 11:54:30 ubuntu kernel: DMI: mp MS-7797/MS-7797, BIOS M7797W08-mp2.20F 03/11/2013
[11:56] <michael____> I just booted from the dvd again (it doesn't recognize the usb media now)
[11:57] <TJ-> tomreyn: and also HIDs (keyboard, etc.)
[11:57] <tomreyn> TJ-: interesting. i have it disabled and usb keyboard works fine, though
[11:57] <TJ-> michael____: after booting from DVD, does the running OS recognise the USB storage device is present?
[11:58] <michael____> yes
[11:58] <TJ-> tomreyn: usually that's because GRUB's native USB drivers work fine
[11:58] <whitehatjelly> thanks
[11:58] <TJ-> michael____: but the PC firmware at start-up cannot recognise it as a valid boot deivce?
[11:58] <michael____> but maybe my pc firmware can only boot from usb in legacy mode
[11:58] <michael____> because I have absolutely no idea what else to try at this point
[11:59] <michael____> when I enable legacu usb support in the bios settings, it will recognize it, but it will boot in legacy mode
[11:59] <michael____> legacy*
[11:59] <TJ-> michael____: I would strongly suspect it expects you to specifically indicate you "trust" the removable-media bootloader exectuable - we see this more and more and it is frustratingly difficult to diagnose
[12:00] <whitehatjelly> how do i make a bootable flashdrive using ubuntu? lets say i want to use mintos (dont get triggers fanboys) and i have iso on my ubuntu machine and a flashdrive inserted to my lap. What do i do now
[12:00] <michael____> that could be it, although how do I fix that?
[12:02] <TJ-> michael____: My recommendation would be to reboot the PC and enter its firmware setup, then explore the various pages/tabs/options. There may be a 'page' for "Security" which will include SecureBoot options. On that page there *may* be additional options to 'trust' boot files - it is usually in the form of a file-browser that allows you to navigate to and select the USB's /EFI/boot/bootx64.efi file. Note that
[12:02] <TJ-> Secure Boot needs to be enabled usually for this function to be available. Once you've 'trusted' the file, you can disable Secure Boot again if you prefer that.
[12:02] <michael____> TJ-: nope, no such option
[12:02] <Guest8> I am trying to install hp-plugin (for hp printers) I am stuck at a step where a script is supposed to add a gpg key (it fails, doesn't download), how do I manually add a gpg key if I have the url (another url) where it is hosted
[12:03] <michael____> I suspect that's because this is a custom bios firmware that's been locked down
[12:03] <TJ-> michael____: another possibility is, that you have to specifically add the USB device to the list of devices that may be booted from
[12:03] <michael____> hmm
[12:03] <michael____> I'll just reboot again and fiddle with it. if that fails I'll stick with windows I guess
[12:04] <whitehatjelly> so you folks will ignore my question? wow
[12:04] <michael____> whitehatjelly: can you just download the iso and then use "startup disk creator"?
[12:05] <Guest8> here one has to be patient whitehatjelly
[12:05] <whitehatjelly> i see
[12:06] <TJ-> michael____: please come back after testing; I'm researching the issue
[12:07] <michael____> I'm gonna reboot
[12:07] <TJ-> michael____: is it a laptop?
[12:07] <stevendale> Hi
[12:08] <stevendale> The expert is here
[12:08] <stevendale> So TJ is supporting and michael____ is receiving... Okay...
[12:11] <stevendale> Hi TJ
[12:11] <stevendale> [21:28] (Michael___) desktop pc with windows 8.1
[12:12] <whitehatjelly> welp, looks like this isnt much of a help. Thank you
[12:13] <McErroneous> Hello i am looking for personal, or private Ubuntu Webpages.., google was not a help to accomplishing this, because it would list mainly the top 10 all the time...
[12:13] <McErroneous> please send me links in notes or messages...
[12:14] <jrzz> whitehatjelly: you there ?
[12:14] <stevendale> jrzz heeft
[12:14] <jrzz> lel
[12:14] <stevendale> McErroneous Hi
[12:14] <jrzz> okey, he just had to open his iso with disk image writer and select his usb key and baaaannng
[12:15] <stevendale> McErroneous https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
[12:15] <michael___> Okay so it only recognizes the usb when I enable support for legacy usb
[12:15] <stevendale> Wb michael2
[12:15] <michael___> I can boot from it, but only in legacy mode
[12:15] <michael___> hi
[12:15] <stevendale> michael___
[12:16] <jrzz> you dont want to boot in legacy mode ?
[12:16] <michael___> no because then it will install ubuntu in legacy mode but it need efi mode to dualboot win8
[12:16] <jrzz> ho ok, got it. Did you disable secured boot ?
[12:17] <michael___> there's no such option as secure boot :( maybe that's the problem
[12:17] <stevendale> michael___ If you format your USB with a GPT table and as FAT32 then mount the Ubuntu ISO, drag the files across to it, it may recgonize the EFI filea
[12:17] <michael___> I'm working on uploading some images of what my Aptio setup utility looks like
[12:18] <michael___> it should, but it doesnt
[12:18] <stevendale> michael___ Use Imgur
[12:18] <jrzz> what is the brand and model of your mb
[12:18] <michael___> mp ms-7797
[12:18] <stevendale> jrzz his is a prebuilt desktop with Windows 8.1
[12:19] <stevendale> It could be possibe the UEFI is 32-bit only
[12:19] <jrzz> ho
[12:19] <stevendale> Nasty OEMs tend to do crap like that
[12:19] <stevendale> Especially around when 8 was released
[12:19] <jrzz> i see, never dealt with that kind of mb
[12:19] <michael___> https://imgur.com/a/2ipTCbh
[12:20] <michael___> "please select boot device" menu was achieved by enabling usb legacy support and pressing f8 after first beep
[12:20] <michael___> but again this boots it in legacy
[12:20] <jrzz> ok
[12:20] <jrzz> so
[12:20] <jrzz> in the second pictures, did you try to go to boot or secure
[12:20] <jrzz> security*
[12:21] <jrzz> just to make sure there is not secured boot option
[12:21] <TJ-> michael___: is it a MSI or Medion mobo?
[12:21] <michael___> neither, the pc was an mp elite power i3
[12:21] <michael___> so it's some mp spinoff of 7797
[12:22] <stevendale> Medion
[12:22] <stevendale> Intel B75 chipset
[12:22] <stevendale> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/64030/intel-b75-express-chipset.html
[12:23] <TJ-> michael___: yeah, both MSI and Medion have products with the same MS-7797 code
[12:23] <michael___> well my motherboard isn't black/red so i suspec tit's not msi... lol
[12:23] <stevendale> Definitely Medion
[12:24] <michael___> suspect it's*
[12:26] <TJ-> michael___: is this any use? https://blog.radwell.codes/2012/08/aptio-bios-usb-boot/
[12:27] <michael___> sounds promising, i'll try that
[12:27] <michael___> if that doesn't work I'll have to leave for work :(
[12:27] <michael___> thanks for the help everyone
[12:27] <TJ-> michael___: one last thing
[12:28] <TJ-> michael___: On photo 7 of your imgur, I notice at the very top "OS Select" shows "Win 7/OtherOS" - have you tried using that in case it offers the USB device ?
[12:29] <michael___> yeah it only shows win8 or win7/otheros
[12:29] <TJ-> michael___: sorry, photo 9
[12:29] <michael___> ubuntu doesn't show there either
[12:29] <TJ-> michael___: You know what, could that be codoe for "UEFI" or "BIOS/Legacy" modes? Did Win7 boot from UEFI? Wasn't Win8 the first that does?
[12:30] <TJ-> michael___: have you tried with that set to "Win8" ?
[12:30] <michael___> have not tried that
[12:30] <michael___> I'll try the two methods when I get back from work
[12:30] <michael___> thank you
[12:30] <TJ-> michael___: good luck - these things are infuriating
[12:31] <michael___> yeah I might look into flashing my bios to get another utility on it but that another thing entirely
[12:31] <michael___> o/
[12:39] <anthonysalamanca> exit
[12:56] <dnzm> I wonder if in Michael's case, it would work if you'd completely wipe the machine and install both windows and Linux in legacy mode
[13:00] <coldnine> Hey everyone, I'm downloading package linux-headers-4.4.0-142-generic in order to 'make modules', but it seems like files are missing because it gives me ' No rule to make target `kernel/bounds.c ', has anyone encountered this before? my final wish is to simply extract module.o from this process
[13:07] <TJ-> coldnine: have you done "make modules_prepare" ?
[13:09] <coldnine>       TJ-: nope, will try now
[13:18] <McErroneous> #/wc
[13:19] <coldnine> TJ-: tried make modules_prepare: "No rule to make target `arch/x86/entry/syscalls/syscall_32.tbl'"
[13:21] <TJ-> coldnine: you do have the full kernel source available don't you - not just the headers ?
[13:24] <coldnine> TJ-: This is just the headers, I dont know how to get the full source
[13:25] <coldnine> TJ-: my kernel version is 4.4.0-142-generic
[13:25] <TJ-> coldnine: You'd need to enable apt to fetch it by enabling /etc/apt/sources.list "deb-src" entries, "apt update" then you can do "apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)"
[13:25] <tomreyn> coldnine: can you discuss what the greater goal is? maybe you're taking a more complicated route than is necessary.
[13:26] <TJ-> tomreyn: it does sound that way; I wonder if DKMS isn't a better route
[13:26] <tomreyn> could well be.
[13:26] <coldnine> tomreyn: I'm trying to create a volatility profile for my Ubuntu 14.04 machine with a newer kernel. for that I need the module.o
[13:27] <coldnine> TJ-: ok I'll fetch it now and attempt
[13:27] <tomreyn> !14.04 | coldnine
[13:27] <cfhowlett> time to upgrade coldnine
[13:29] <TJ-> coldnine: what is a "volatility profile" ?
[13:30] <coldnine> TJ-: volatility is a program created for memory forensics, it can be used to inspect memory dumps
[13:30] <coldnine> TJ-: to inspect a memory dump you'd need a profile of the machine the memory was dumped from
[13:30] <coldnine> TJ-: to create a profile you can look through here: https://github.com/volatilityfoundation/volatility/wiki/Linux#creating-a-new-profile
[13:30] <TJ-> coldnine: ahhh, makes sense now, I thought you were talking about a boot-entry !
[13:32] <coldnine> TJ-: apt says Picking 'linux' as source package instead of 'linux-image-4.4.0-142-generic' so it download 3.13.0 instead >.>
[13:33] <coldnine> TJ-: can i download the .deb through the site and install that instead?
[13:33] <TJ-> coldnine: from what you said earlier I suspect you mis-understood this phrase "The current method to create vtypes (kernel's data structures) is to **check out** the source code and compile 'module.c' "
[13:34] <TJ-> coldnine: "check out" means to clone the kernel's source code repository, or otherwise get the matching kernel source for the kernel version you're working on
[13:34] <TJ-> coldnine: for Ubuntu kernels you'd need to clone the ubuntu kernel-team repository for 14.04 trusty
[13:36] <coldnine> TJ-: the example procedure under "creating a new profile" simply tells to download the headers and make modules, hmmf
[13:36] <TJ-> coldnine: so you'd need to do "git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-trusty.git"
[13:37] <coldnine> TJ-: would this be a long process?
[13:37] <TJ-> coldnine: but that is just the *first* stage of several you have to follow
[13:38] <TJ-> coldnine: the make instructions at the end of that section (Creating a Profile) are specifically to work aroun problems in Fedora
[13:38] <TJ-> coldnine: kernel building is always a long process initially - but incremental builds can be very quick
[13:39] <TJ-> coldnine: having 'ccache' can help tremendously too
[13:41] <coldnine> TJ-: OK so maybe I can take a different approach: I know that there are pre build profiles online, for Ubuntu14.04 there's a pre build profile for kernel version 3.13.0-24-generic, is there a way I can downgrade my kernel version to that one?
[13:41] <mia> hey all
[13:41] <mia> what's the best way to run android apps on ubuntu
[13:43] <tomreyn> mia: you can't, not natively.
[13:43] <mia> tomreyn, I'm not looking for a native way
[13:44] <mia> there were some workaround in windows like bluestacks
[13:44] <mia> I'm looking for a good alternative for them in ubuntu
[13:45] <tomreyn> i don't know what said workaround is. there are virtualizations you can use.
[13:45] <TJ-> coldnine: 14.04 is no longer supported, but you may find the kernel packages for that on http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu (you'd alter /etc/apt/sources.list to use that <---- URI instead, then "apt update" then check if the kernel version you want is available with "apt list linux-imager*' or "dpkg -l linux-image*' "
[13:45] <TJ-> mia: there's a 'snap' called "anbox"
[13:46] <mia> oh, will check now!
[13:49] <cfhowlett> Mia/ virtualbox + chromeOS + android app
[13:49] <cfhowlett> IMHO
[13:51] <TJ-> that's one heck of a stack just to run some JVM/dalvik :)
[13:55] <ubuntu-mate> ciao a tutti!!!
[13:56] <cfhowlett> !it | ubuntu-mate
[13:56] <stevendale> !language | ubuntu-mate
[13:56] <ubuntu-mate> OK! sorry...i'm just arrive!!!
[14:04] <BenMcLean> Hey guys. Umm .... OK assume I'm a dum-dum trying to put Ubuntu on a 256 GB pcie SATA drive. What partitions should I make, how big should they be and what should they be called? I have 32 GB of RAM on this computer. do I really need a separate swap partition?
[14:04] <cfhowlett> BenMcLean/ nothing at all dumb about that
[14:04] <cfhowlett> easiest thing to to is let the installer automagically partition as needed.
[14:07] <BenMcLean> cfhowlett well it won't because I have two other Windows 10 drives, which makes the installer throw a tantrum and demand manual config
[14:08] <cfhowlett> install next to windows should be offered as an option BenMcLean
[14:09] <BenMcLean> cfhowlett, That's for splitting a volume between Windows 10 and Linux.
[14:09] <BenMcLean> I have a completely separate volume for Linux
[14:09] <cfhowlett> is that not what you are doing?
[14:09] <BenMcLean> No, what I'm doing is installing Linux on it's own volume.
[14:09] <noob_on_rails> hey all, I've done a clean installation with ubuntu 18.04, long time ubuntu user
[14:09] <noob_on_rails> but I'm experiencing various lags & hangs
[14:10] <noob_on_rails> firefox startup times are very long
[14:10] <BenMcLean> I actually have two 2TB SATA drives with Windows 10, and the Windows will only boot with that stupid "Intel Rapid Storage Technology" thing turned on
[14:10] <cfhowlett> BenMcLean/ got it.  well, plain vanilla ubuntu system takes less than 10 gb.  a dedicated /home can be as large/small as you want.  a /swap won't hurt
[14:10] <noob_on_rails> anyone else having the same issues?
[14:11] <noob_on_rails> the whole thing feels weird tbh, gnome is laggy
[14:11] <BenMcLean> Every time I want to use Linux, I have to go into the BIOS and disable Intel RST
[14:11] <noob_on_rails> are there any specific things i should do to make the experience better?
[14:11] <BenMcLean> cfhowlett, see my original question
[14:11] <TJ-> noob_on_rails: check the kernel log for signs of I/O errors
[14:12] <cfhowlett> !raid | BenMcLean/  no experience with rst so I can't advise.  please consult the official info
[14:12] <Younder> for the record to access the kernel log use dmesg
[14:13] <Younder> or go to /var/log and use tail, head or less
[14:14] <Younder> remember less is more
[14:15] <TJ-> BenMcLean: this may help you, towards the end is some good advice to get Linux installer to use the Intel RST
[14:15] <BenMcLean> Ooh that'd be great TJ-
[14:16] <BenMcLean> but which thing are you referring to TJ-
[14:17] <TJ-> BenMcLean: the entire explanation by DavidJFelix, but points 5 onwards relate to what to do/expect in Linux
[14:17] <noob_on_rails> wow, gnome is actually leaking
[14:17] <noob_on_rails> 2.5 GB ram, really ?!
[14:17] <TJ-> BenMcLean: you would need to manually intervene during install, using the "Try Ubuntu" method so you can use a terminal to get the drivers loaded and the device-mapper block device created before starting the installer
[14:17] <Younder> TJ: pleas stop blowing us off. If you have a REAL problem state it.
[14:19] <TJ-> BenMcLean: I suspect there may be challenges with GRUB boot-loader, although it does support most Linux MD RAID metadata now
[14:22] <BenMcLean> OK if I have 32 GB of RAM and I want hibernation, then my swap size should be 38 GB correct?
[14:23] <BenMcLean> in which case 38 * 1024 = 38,912, plus one for rounding error would be 38,913 MB?
[14:25] <tomreyn> BenMcLean: hibernating (suspend to disk) and returning from it will most likely take longer than a full reboot for you. also potentially much longer than the more common suspend (to ram).
[14:26] <tomreyn> also, what is your calculation based on?
[14:26] <BenMcLean> tomreyn: OK so should I just have 6 GB of swap then?
[14:26] <TJ-> BenMcLean: yes, but unless most memory is in use (not for caches/buffers) it will rarely put all of RAM into swap
[14:26] <BenMcLean> tomreyn this page here https://itsfoss.com/swap-size/
[14:26] <TJ-> BenMcLean: for hibernation I choose RAM-SIZe + some small margin
[14:26] <BenMcLean> Maybe I shouldn't have hibernation
[14:27] <TJ-> BenMcLean: e.g. after boot without running many processes, OS may be using less than 1GiB of RAM, so that's all it'll save to swap
[14:27] <BenMcLean> well it is a laptop. should it even have hibernation ?
[14:27] <BenMcLean> i mean if I just say "no hibernation" then it would shut down if battery gets too low, right?
[14:28] <TJ-> BenMcLean: for a laptop I'd say yes... initially use suspend-to-RAM but set it so if battery drops below some level (5% ?) it wakes up, and then hibernates
[14:28] <TJ-> BenMcLean: yes, you could do that too. Depends how much you leave the logged-in system with applications and data files open
[14:29] <BenMcLean> TJ- I don't expect to do that much. I am using this linux for development purposes, but expect to leave it running in windows 10 when not in use
[14:29] <tomreyn> this also depends a lot on how you use the laptop. if you use it a s a desktop replacement i'd just recommend to shotdown/power off and power on.
[14:29] <BenMcLean> TJ- DavidJFelix's post is trying to get Windows and Linux to share a drive ... that's confusing
[14:30] <TJ-> BenMcLean: I know... I pointed to that because you had said you have to disable Intel RST to boot Linux
[14:30] <BenMcLean> tomreyn, i think i'll go with that
[14:33] <gravitos> and hello again
[14:33] <gravitos> so
[14:34] <gravitos> i have a 16gb usb flash memory stick
[14:34] <BenMcLean> TJ- The documentation that guy linked to says it is out of date
[14:34] <gravitos> i just tried to format it in ext4
[14:36] <gravitos> and whie mounting it says
[14:36] <gravitos> Error mounting /dev/sdb at /media/gravitos/GRAVITOS-FLASH:
[14:36] <gravitos>  Command-line `mount -t "ext4" -o "uhelper=udisks2,nodev,nosuid" "/dev/sdb" "/media/gravitos/GRAVITOS-FLASH"'
[14:36] <gravitos> exited with non-zero exit status 32: mount: mount /dev/sdb on
[14:36] <gravitos>  /media/gravitos/GRAVITOS-FLASH failed: Structure need to be cleaned
[14:36] <gravitos> (udisks-error-quark, 0)
[14:36] <cfhowlett> !paste | gravitos use paste to avoid "set quiet"
[14:37] <BenMcLean> TJ- referring to this here https://superuser.com/a/350290
[14:37] <TJ-> gravitos: that suggests there is corruption. Try "sudo e2fsck -f /dev/sdb"
[14:38] <BenMcLean> I need to find out 1. exactly what steps to follow to get the ubuntu installer to recognize the drive under Intel RST, and 2. what partitions to make and exactly how many MB to tell it to make them, since the Ubuntu installer is too stupid to take the number in GB
[14:38] <TJ-> BenMcLean: the link to Intel RST? I get Access Denied from the intel server
[14:38] <BenMcLean> or better yet, auto-configure
[14:38] <hggdh> gavinguo: in other words: you probably removed the USB stick *without* un-mounting it first. This will usually not be good.
[14:39] <BenMcLean> TJ- oh that's over here now i think https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/rst-linux-paper.pdf
[14:39] <TJ-> BenMcLean: oh, are you about the Arch wiki, where it talks about dmraid ?
[14:39] <BenMcLean> TJ- I meant this link here's out of date. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installing_with_Fake_RAID#Load_dmraid
[14:39] <BenMcLean> yeah
[14:40] <TJ-> BenMcLean: "dmraid" and "md raid" are 2 very different things. In years gone by only dmraid supported FAKE (metadata) RAID including Intel. Then
[14:40] <BenMcLean> why does ubuntu need a separate swap partition anyway? why can't it just use a file like windows does?
[14:41] <gravitos> nice translation, e2fsck | "сжатиеion", "which is неверно"... not bad...
[14:41] <TJ-> BenMcLean: ... then Intel contributed support for Intel FAKE metadata to Linux's MD - we use "mdadm" to manage it
[14:41] <gravitos> BenMcLean: swap partition is much faster than swap file
[14:41] <TJ-> BenMcLean: Ubuntu recent versions do use a swap file, but sometimes a partition is preferable
[14:41] <BenMcLean> gravitos, really .... doesn't that mean the file system's crappy, since the underying hardware would be the exact same?
[14:42] <BenMcLean> TJ- O I C
[14:42]  * gravitos does not use swap at all, huh
[14:43] <BenMcLean> I am thinking with 32 GB of RAM, maybe I should just tell programs that want to use more, "tough luck"
[14:44] <gravitos> My laptop has 4 GB of RAM and it is enough to run Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas by wine and to have it playable.
[14:44] <TJ-> BenMcLean: even a small swap could prevent OOM errors. Depends on how large the storage device is... is 32GB going to waste useful capacity?
[14:45] <BenMcLean> Quite possibly. I mean, that is pretty big
[14:46] <gravitos> give some of your RAM to me :)
[14:46] <BenMcLean> That's 12.5% of the total drive
[14:46] <Charon> ;d
[14:46] <gravitos> or did you mean swap?
[14:47] <BenMcLean> what
[14:48] <TJ-> BenMcLean: I think I'd tend to make it smaller than RAM, maybe 8 or 16GB, based on what you've said
[14:49] <gravitos> no swap and no problems http://i.imgur.com/qaFRg1V.png
[14:52] <BenMcLean> What the hell is this. Just switching the SATA mode in the BIOS on each boot would probably save time compared to figuring this out.
[14:52] <BenMcLean> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installing_with_Fake_RAID#MBR_Install_Example_Using_mdadm_on_and_Intel_FakeRAID
[14:54] <BenMcLean> It's been my experience that you always have to be some kind of wizard to get linux to do anything, while with Windows, you only have to be a wizard occasionally.
[14:54] <TJ-> BenMcLean: that's Arch where everything has to be done manually; most of those steps are done by the Ubuntu installer
[14:55] <BenMcLean> TJ- oh ... so what would be the steps just to get it to enable mdadm so it can see the drive, and add mdadm to the actual install so it'll see the drive when it boots?
[14:55] <TJ-> BenMcLean: all you have to ensure is the /dev/mapper/<name-of-intel-rst-raid-array> is available
[14:55] <Younder> BenMcLean, Neither clan employs wizards. Though wise asses seem prevalent.
[14:56] <TJ-> BenMcLean: if the system is using RST and has RAID devices, or JBOD, then those devices should show up either as device-mapper nodes, or even possibly plain SCSI (/dev/sd*)
[14:56] <BenMcLean> SCSI? What? this is 2019. everything's SATA-only now isn't it?
[14:57] <TJ-> BenMcLean: on boot Ubuntu uses mdadm to scan for and assemble any good RAID arrays it finds and they appear under /dev/mapper/
[14:57] <TJ-> BenMcLean: no, everything is SCSI - that is the standard Linux sub-system
[14:57] <BenMcLean> oh
[14:57] <BenMcLean> Ubuntu's installer wasn't seeing my 256 GB pcie SSD when intel RST is turned on in the BIOS
[14:58] <BenMcLean> that's problem #1. problem #2 is figuring out what partitions I should have.
[14:58] <TJ-> BenMcLean: right, so we'd need to look in detail at the kernel log when that occurs to figure out if there is any sign at all of it
[14:58] <FreeBDSM> LVM question: so I have attached a used HDD (it was part of a raid, afaik) and would like to create a small partition on it using lvm. What's the way to do that? I thought first I'd need to `pvcreate /dev/sdc`, but for some reason I get 'Device /dev/sdc not found (or ignored by filtering).' why's that?
[14:58] <BenMcLean> TJ- how I do that
[14:58] <TJ-> BenMcLean: well, if there is an entire device for Ubuntu, let the installer decide all that
[14:59] <Younder> BenMcLean, lsscsi. Internally linux strores alldrives as if tey were SCSI jus because SCSI has a record hat includes everything all the others have
[14:59] <BenMcLean> TJ- it wouldn't. it would insist on trying to install to one of the windows drives any time i didn't make everything completely manual
[14:59] <Younder> in a record
[14:59] <FreeBDSM> `lsblk` does list sdc, so why am I getting that error?
[14:59] <TJ-> BenMcLean: boot the system with RST enabled to the Ubuntu installer in "Try Ubuntu" mode so you get a desktop GUI, then open a terminal, and grab the kernel log. So you'd do "sudo apt install pastebinit; pastebinit <( dmesg )" and give us the URL of the paste so we can advise
[15:00] <BenMcLean> Oh OK
[15:00] <BenMcLean> Will do!
[15:00] <BenMcLean> thanks
[15:00] <BenMcLean> brb while i do that. (gotta find where i put that micro sd card with ubuntu on it)
[15:00] <t4nk-freenode> could anyone lend me a hand with sources.list? I installed bodhi linux and apt-get update won't work, http://dpaste.com/10ERRRB
[15:01] <t4nk-freenode> I can't figure it our for the life of me :|
[15:01] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: LVM doesn't create partitions. Do you mean you want to create a Logical Volume in the Volume Group that is on that device?
[15:01] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: We do not support Bodhi here; only Ubuntu
[15:01] <t4nk-freenode> isn't bodhi 18.04?
[15:02] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: it is not Ubuntu
[15:02] <t4nk-freenode> and isn't Err:1 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu bionic InRelease  403  Forbidden  a regular repo?
[15:03] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: looks like I have some erroneous info: my notes claim that physical volumes can be a disk partition, whole disk (or meta device, or loopback file). But anyways, you are right: I want to partition that disk and use those partitions as LVM
[15:03] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: maybe Bodhi is using Ubuntu archives, but it is NOT Ubuntu
[15:03] <gdb> t4nk-freenode: Bohdi is not Ubuntu in the effectively the same way Ubuntu is not Debian.  One is based on the other.  Ubuntu diverges more from its parent than Bohdi does, but Bohdi is it's own product and should have its own resources for support.
[15:03] <FreeBDSM> so should I first create a partition using something like parted?
[15:03] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: no, your notes are correct but I think you're misunderstanding... let me explain...
[15:03] <Joeboy> Any ideas why my alt-tab doesn't do anything after upgrading to 19.04? It seems like the behaviour is supposed to have changed, but it should still do *something*, right?
[15:04] <mplsjoker> How should I install Ubuntu alongside my existing arch distro?
[15:04] <FreeBDSM> there are pvs, vgs and lvs. Both as entities and as commands to list entities of those types.
[15:05] <t4nk-freenode> I know guys, but I had my hopes set on you... thing is that 'support' is rather only a discord page with 3 people in it, without activity
[15:05] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: the order of block devices usually will go something like this: /dev/sda -> /dev/sda1 (partition) -> pvcreate /dev/sda1 (create LVM metadata) -> vgcreate MY_VG /dev/sda1 (create a Volume Group) -> lvcreate -n MY_LV -L 4G MY_VG (Logical Volume) -> mkfs.ext4 /dev/mapper/MY_VG-MY_LV
[15:05] <gdb> t4nk-freenode: Their webpage indicates that their forums and wiki are the primary resources.
[15:05] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: that is the penalty for choosing a distro with a small dev/support/user based
[15:06] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: so LVM goes after partitioning, not before
[15:06] <cfhowlett> exactomundo! TJ-
[15:06] <t4nk-freenode> it's a darned shame, because I installed bodhi for a friend, on an older pc.. and it runs just blazingly fast( if I had any packages to install)
[15:06] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: where there are to be multiple partitions, yes, you'd put the LVM PV in a partition
[15:07] <cfhowlett> t4nk-freenode/ pretty sure bodhi offers support options to their OS.  if not, consider your options.
[15:07] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: Ubuntu has Lubuntu and Xubuntu which work well on older/slower/restricted PCs
[15:08] <mplsjoker> Any thoughts on installing Ubuntu alongside my arch install?
[15:08] <cfhowlett> ubuntu offers the "install next to ..." option.
[15:09] <TJ-> mplsjoker: ensure the boot-loaders don't interfere with each other
[15:10] <BenMcLean> Hi guys. I'm back, just opening an irc window on a computer I'm not actually doing the installing on. :)
[15:11] <TJ-> BenMcLean: good plan!
[15:19] <BenMcLean> here is the paste TJ- and folks http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GwFq68xHvt/
[15:20] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: is it normal/okay/wrong to have 1M biosgrub partition on each physical hdd?
[15:20] <FreeBDSM> or will I get into trouble upon boot?
[15:22] <TJ-> BenMcLean: doh, line 807! it's because the device(s) are NMVe
[15:22] <TJ-> BenMcLean: which seems to indicate that currently, Linux cannot work around the RST, and it has to be disabled
[15:22] <BenMcLean> TJ- OK now I have to Google what the hell NMVe is
[15:22] <TJ-> BenMcLean: at least you know for sure now
[15:23] <TJ-> BenMcLean: Non Volatile Memory Express
[15:23] <TJ-> BenMcLean: very fast SSD connection to the PCI Express bus
[15:23] <BenMcLean> o i c https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVM_Express
[15:23] <BenMcLean> will linux get support of this in future?
[15:24] <BenMcLean> btw the 7.8 gb usb device is the sd card i'm running off of atm
[15:27] <BenMcLean> TJ- I am reading online that support for NMVe was added to the Linux kernel version 3.3 in 2012. What's the problem?
[15:27] <BenMcLean> I mean this is 2019. that's seven years, surely it must have trickled down to ubuntu by now
[15:27] <FreeBDSM> he said that RST has to be disabled
[15:28] <TJ-> BenMcLean: yes, it is, but Intel broke AHCI in their RST - you can read the original Linux kernel commit message that explains it:  https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/aecec8b60422118b52e3347430ba9382e57d6d76
[15:29] <t4nk-freenode> It's really with pain in my heart to have to leave bodhi; Desktop really felt amazingly snappy. My friend has an amd athlon 64 X2 dual core 4400+ with 4G ram with 120G ssd; I previously had him on kubuntu( because I always used that), but there were too many troubles and it just didn't want to run consistently. considering this hardware, could you give me an advice on what to install to give my friend the best possible
[15:29] <t4nk-freenode> experience for a change? Myself I would like a snappy desktop, a browser, mail client and some light gams like pioneers and chess. Doesn't need to be much, but fast and solid....
[15:29] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: I'd try Xubuntu and Lubuntu, which are both supported here
[15:30] <t4nk-freenode> and which would you prefer yourself?
[15:30] <BenMcLean> TJ- Thanks for the info on this
[15:31] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: seems that Bodhi has Moshka Desktop, a fork of Enlightenment
[15:31] <t4nk-freenode> yes
[15:31] <t4nk-freenode> it's a bit ugly btw ;)
[15:31] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: I use Xubuntu on all my systems, even the powerful ones, from RaspberryPi on up
[15:34] <gambl0re> how come when i run certain applications like youtube with live usb the fan stays off when watching a youtube hd video but if i boot up my system with installed os the fan turns on when watching a hd video
[15:36] <tomreyn> which live usb is it?
[15:36] <gambl0re> kubuntu
[15:36] <tomreyn> version?
[15:37] <gambl0re> 18.10
[15:37] <tomreyn> and the installed system is?
[15:37] <gambl0re> same
[15:37] <tomreyn> hmm, i'd bet on a bug which was still present when th elive cd was made, and fixed later.
[15:38] <tomreyn> but it's not easy to guess
[15:38] <gambl0re> same with when using vlc. live usb vlc works fine without fan turning on. installed os, fan turns on for some reason
[15:38] <tomreyn> the reason will be heat which needs dissipating, i guess
[15:39] <tomreyn> you could take a look at your logs of those boots and compare them.
[15:39] <TJ-> gambl0re: sounds to me like the installed OS is using software rendering, whereas the Live is using hardware offloading to the GPU
[15:39] <TJ-> gambl0re: compare which GPU drivers are used by both
[15:40] <Gradamixer> wasssup?
[15:40] <gambl0re> TJ-, not sure how to do that
[15:40] <Gradamixer> what do you mean?
[15:40] <Gradamixer> anyone wannmes that they like?lk about any gaa ta
[15:40] <tomreyn> gambl0re: run this on bot systems:  lspci -knn | grep -A3 VGA | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:41] <tomreyn> also:  glxinfo -b
[15:41] <TJ-> gambl0re: possibly tomreyn can help here, I cannot recall the command that lists the Xorg drivers and capabilities
[15:41] <Gradamixer> gamble0re
[15:41] <TJ-> tomreyn: gambl0re That's the one!
[15:41] <Gradamixer> Run system data to reboot me
[15:41] <tomreyn> sorry, i mean, for the extra command:   glxinfo -B
[15:41] <gambl0re> TJ-, https://termbin.com/ql35
[15:41] <Gradamixer> how are you guys doing
[15:42] <tomreyn> !support | Gradamixer:
[15:42] <Gradamixer> bye guys have a good time with life
[15:42] <tomreyn> oops wrong factoid
[15:43] <tomreyn> gambl0re: so this system uses the integrated intel graphics chipset.
[15:43] <gambl0re> tomreyn, ye
[15:44] <tomreyn> gambl0re: and there doesn't seem to be anything else in there. but you could still check from the other system to be sure.
[15:44] <t4nk-freenode> downloading Xubuntu desktop image, TJ-, I'll give it a try
[15:48] <s2dar> hello
[15:49] <ikanobori> Hi!
[15:51] <tomreyn> gambl0re: and we still frown at cross-posting here
[15:52] <gambl0re> tomreyn, sorry
[15:52] <gambl0re> i just installed powertop, how do i actually use it? haha
[15:54] <BenMcLean> Thanks for the help today everybody
[15:55] <BenMcLean> gotta go
[15:57] <Gradamixer> are you guys here
[15:57] <tomreyn> hi Gradamixer, do you have an ubuntu support question?
[15:57] <Gradamixer> no i was wondering what you guys were up too?
[15:58] <tomreyn> !ot | Gradamixer
[16:13] <BenMcLean> How can I use a keyboard shortcut to zoom in and out?
[16:14] <BenMcLean> there's a zoom option in the "Universal Access" menu, but it needs to have a way to quickly zoom in and out, because UI designers stupidly insist on making text of all different sizes isntead of one size
[16:15] <BenMcLean> When I google this, I find a ton of information on old versions of Ubuntu with completely different zoom options than the current version
[16:15] <BenMcLean> The ubuntu docs here seem to indicate that this is a missing feature. https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-help/a11y-mag.html.en
[16:15] <BenMcLean> A missing essential, uncompromisable feature
[16:15] <FreeBDSM> fdisk lists my disk's sector size (logical/physical) as 512 bytes / 4096 bytes, can I anyhow increase logical sector size to 4096 bytes to match physical sector size?
[16:16] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: no
[16:16] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: why would you want to?
[16:16] <FreeBDSM> thanks
[16:17] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: afaiu - that'd slightly increase access speed if my files are mostly big
[16:18] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: ahhh, there is way to achieve that, but not by trying to change the disk's LBA size... ensure the start of the partition/file-system is on a multiple of 4096 bytes, then create the file-system with a block size of 4096 bytes. If I recall correctly, ext4 already does use 4096
[16:21] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: if the OS is reading large files it is going to ask the disk to send multiple sectors anyhow... where you can suffer is in accessing less than 4096 bytes from a sector, since the disk has to discard data, and for writing it has to read the existing 4096 bytes, replace the 512 bytes you've written to, then write back the entire 4096 bytes. This hardly ever is a problem in practice due to disk's
[16:21] <TJ-> internal caching
[16:22] <FreeBDSM> thanks
[16:23] <t4nk-freenode> TJ-, ... now I face the same problem on xubuntu... http://dpaste.com/3TKD012
[16:23] <FreeBDSM> parted sucks: how to specify first sector for the partition in sectors?
[16:24] <jeff_j> Hi I get no audio after resuming from suspend, I've tried pulseaudio --kill, pulseaudio --start, I've tried systemctl restart alsa-restore.service  alsasound.service     alsa-state.service
[16:25] <jeff_j> I am using displayPort cable to connect to the monitor
[16:25] <tomreyn> FreeBDSM: parted(8) -> COMMANDS -> "unit"
[16:26] <FreeBDSM> tomreyn: `(parted) unit` -> `Unit?  [compact]?`, I just wanna ask "b--ch, what are you asking me???"
[16:27] <FreeBDSM> 'End?' doesn't even suggest the max sector
[16:28] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: works for me; it looks like you have a HTTP proxy that is modifying/blocking connections
[16:29] <FreeBDSM> if 1MB=2048 sectors, then 100GB should be 2048*100*1024=209715200. And it says Error: The location 209715200 is outside of the device /dev/sdc. The disk is 3TB
[16:29] <TJ-> jeff_j: sounds like an ACPI issue, for which acpi_osi= may be a solution
[16:29] <compdoc_> is the partition table GPT?
[16:30] <FreeBDSM> yes
[16:30] <jeff_j> TJ, can you be more specific, acpi_osi= ?
[16:31] <t4nk-freenode> TJ-, it seems you may be right, I just changed to a 4G connection.... and it's running
[16:31] <TJ-> t4nk-freenode: Yay!
[16:32] <t4nk-freenode> ;) thnx
[16:32] <FreeBDSM> what's the lowest index for sectors? 0? or 1?
[16:33] <FreeBDSM> why do partitions go like 2048-4095 instead of 2049-4096?
[16:33] <TJ-> jeff_j: suspend and power-on require the firmware ACPI to (re)configure devices... how it does that depends on what OS is active. Many many firmwares do not enable all functions unless they detect Windows OS. Linux can pretend to be Windows to ensure those functions are enabled
[16:34] <TJ-> jeff_j: it's a pretty common issue, here's an explanation and how to try to work around it http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
[16:34] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: they use an even number of sectors, so the last sector will be an odd number
[16:34] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: I see the opposite
[16:35] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: sectors are arranged as a power-of-2 so the offsets always should be even
[16:35] <FreeBDSM> err, no, I see what you just said
[16:35] <jeff_j> thanks TJ
[16:37] <FreeBDSM> damn it. parted makes me sooooo angry
[16:38] <tomreyn> the (logical/physical) sector size of a given storage is reported when you    parted /dev/... print
[16:38] <compdoc_> try gparted
[16:38] <tangorri> hi, I'm inside a VM and I can't get my locale keyboard layout, even following docs/wiki
[16:38] <FreeBDSM> tomreyn: yes. I have 5860533168s. This is more than 209715200
[16:39] <tomreyn> FreeBDSM: do "unit", type "s", press enter, type "print", press enter. note disk and existing partition sizes are printed in sectors.
[16:40] <FreeBDSM> tomreyn: 0 partitions
[16:41] <FreeBDSM> https://paste.ee/p/1RO7u
[16:42] <tomreyn> FreeBDSM: line 11 shows the total storage size in s now.
[16:42] <FreeBDSM> compdoc_: gparted is better in some aspects and worse in others. I can't specify offset in sectors.
[16:42] <FreeBDSM> tomreyn: > FreeBDSM: tomreyn: yes. I have 5860533168s. This is more than 209715200
[16:42] <FreeBDSM> this time I tried 4096-209719295
[16:42] <FreeBDSM> still an error about location being outside the device
[16:43] <tomreyn> you enteed sector values while in compact mode
[16:43] <tomreyn> not specifying s
[16:43] <tomreyn> i guess it will have interpreted those are MB
[16:44] <FreeBDSM> oh, thanks
[16:44] <FreeBDSM> that worked
[16:44] <FreeBDSM> I hate parted
[16:45] <FreeBDSM> btw, gparted asked both label and partition name. I don't know the difference.
[16:45] <TJ-> parted mkpart defaults to M without a specific suffix
[16:46] <FreeBDSM> how about indicating that somehow in those damn questions?
[16:46] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: it's right there in the man page
[16:46] <FreeBDSM> riiiiight
[16:47] <FreeBDSM> "a bug is not a bug if it's documented". A missed feature is not a missed feature if it's documented being not there.
[16:47] <FreeBDSM> screw usability
[16:47] <TJ-> beginning at start and ending
[16:47] <TJ->                      at end (by default in  megabytes)
[16:47] <hggdh> FreeBDSM: please mind your language
[16:48] <FreeBDSM> hggdh: is it foul language to say 'screw usability'?
[16:49] <hggdh> FreeBDSM: it is borderline. So, please don't
[16:50] <FreeBDSM> hggdh: in my opinion it's not borderline. In my opinion you just want to rob people of their right of being angry at something and from expressing it.
[16:51] <hggdh> FreeBDSM: if you want to discuss this, let's get on #ubuntu-ops.
[16:51] <tangorri> I'm looking to install wine but when I search I got plenty of packs, how do i do ?
[16:52] <FreeBDSM> hggdh: I really see no point. You are an op and I am not, you set the rules and decide what rights to rob people off. I'll bend to your will, but just still wanted to express how wrong you are.
[16:53] <hggdh> FreeBDSM: understood. Now, back to topic, please
[16:55] <FreeBDSM> `1      4096s  209719295s  209715200s` == ` 1      2097kB  107GB  107GB` how so?
[16:56] <FreeBDSM> 2*1024*1024*100=209715200 is in my opinion 100Gb exactly
[16:56] <FreeBDSM> aaah, those should be fake gigabytes
[16:56] <FreeBDSM> they are probably 2*1000*1000*100
[16:57] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: remember that disk use base 10 not base 2
[16:57] <tangorri> ///bot list
[16:58] <FreeBDSM> that's a weird phrasing for fake gigabytes
[16:59] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: no it is standard SI units, GB is base 10, GiB is base 2
[17:00] <FreeBDSM> oh god that's confusing
[17:01] <TJ-> indeed, we fight an uphill battle over it
[17:01] <hggdh> FreeBDSM: there is now (for good better or worse) [KMG]i for base 2, and [KMG] is set to *only* SI
[17:01] <TJ-> officially base 2 are "GibiBytes" !
[17:01] <hggdh> FreeBDSM: see 'man units'
[17:01] <TJ-> makes one want to gibber
[17:01] <FreeBDSM> lsblk says just G or T and all your slim theories just fall apart
[17:02] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: some devs of tools refuse to adopt SI so you have to be careful too
[17:02] <j0seph> hggdh: oh wow, that's helpful. didn't know that manpage existed
[17:02] <FreeBDSM> why not just wipe base 10 completely away?
[17:02] <FreeBDSM> computers are binary, everyone got used that a kb is 1024 bytes
[17:03] <FreeBDSM> I don't want to remember kb vs Kb vs Kib vs kB vs KB
[17:03] <j0seph> FreeBDSM: I know 10 people that would prefer to use Base 2: Me, and my friend.
[17:03] <hggdh> FreeBDSM: it is what it is. Now, please back to topic. You can complain about it in some other channel
[17:03] <FreeBDSM> it should be just kb or KB and mean the same thing
[17:03] <FreeBDSM> hggdh: I like you.
[17:05] <michael___> I did it! Ubuntu is now correctly configured to uefi, and so is grub!
[17:05] <michael___> I needed to set the os to win8 in the BIOS, as suggested
[17:05] <j0seph> michael___: congrats! have fun with it! what will you do now?
[17:05] <michael___> try and figure out how to dump gnome
[17:06] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: lsblk uses base 2 :)
[17:06] <FreeBDSM> michael___: how do you feel now? now that you realize you've wasted much time on something small and something that should be trivial?
[17:06] <michael___> I feel like I just installed arch
[17:06] <TJ-> michael___: Yay, and thanks for letting us know - we were discussing it after you left
[17:07] <FreeBDSM> why do people use offset for 1st partition?
[17:07] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: how do you mean?
[17:07] <j0seph> michael___: awkward thing, that: if you wanted to start off with a different desktop environment, maybe you should have chosen one of the official flavours! a victory if a victory though, and now you know how to deal with the problem should it occur in the future
[17:08] <j0seph> is a victory**
[17:08] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: generally 1st partition is set to start at sector 2048 (for 512-byte logicals) due to some issues with advanced format drives when they were first released
[17:08] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: start at 2048
[17:08] <michael___> weird though, I installed it without 3rd party drivers this time because it said that I would need to configure a secure boot... Didn't feel like it. And now my screen tearing is gone
[17:08] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: isn't this still actual?
[17:08] <TJ-> michael___: sounds like you've made some great advances
[17:08] <michael___> sure did
[17:09] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: yes, 2048 is generally the default in tooling, although I override it to start from sector 34
[17:09] <FreeBDSM> why not 0/1?
[17:09] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: with GPT sectors 0-33 are used for metadata
[17:09] <MannyLNJ> I need some help please. DnsMASQ on my 18.04 is broken and I am not sure how to fix it.
[17:10] <TJ-> MannyLNJ: Is that Desktop? usually network-manager on 18.04 uses systemd-resolved now
[17:11] <MannyLNJ> T3 I thought I had disabled systemmd-resolved and switched to DnsMasq
[17:12] <TJ-> MannyLNJ: did you reconfigure NetworkManager to use dnsmasq instead of systemd-resolved ?
[17:12] <NTQ> So, da bin ich wieder
[17:12] <MannyLNJ> TJ-, I thought I had but then I was trying to resolve a VPN issue
[17:13] <tds> MannyLNJ: worth keeping in mind you'll also need to update nsswitch.conf, otherwise applications using glibc's getaddrinfo etc will continue to talk to resolved over dbus without even looking at resolv.conf
[17:15] <FreeBDSM> `sudo pvcreate -v /dev/sdc1` -> `Can't open /dev/sdc1 exclusively.  Mounted filesystem?` Nope, not mouned.
[17:19] <dnzm> michael___: KDE or something lightweight like XFCE?
[17:20] <michael___> about to try out kde plasma
[17:21] <michael___> I'm loving the concept of package managers so far
[17:21] <j0seph> michael___: good choice! I'm on that right now.
[17:21] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: are you sure some existing LV doesn't have it?
[17:22] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: yes
[17:27] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: well something has a handle on sdc1. Try "sudo dmsetup ls --tree -o blkdevname" see if sdc1 is mentioned
[17:27] <FreeBDSM> not mentioned
[17:28] <FreeBDSM> oh, it was used in a md array, I now start to remember there's a flag or something
[17:29] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: I was about to ask what "mdadm --query /dev/sdc1" reports
[17:29] <FreeBDSM> yup, /dev/md127
[17:29] <FreeBDSM> weird
[17:29] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: is it safe to stop it?
[17:29] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: yes
[17:29] <FreeBDSM> those data are irrelevant
[17:31] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: "mdadm --stop /dev/md127" then you should be good to go, although you may want to wipe the mdadm metadata first with "mdadm --zero-superblock /dev/sdc1"
[17:32] <coconut> michael___: if you're after ditching gnome and trying something else also greatest Desktop E, you might want to try out ubuntu mate, which is the same ubuntu but with old version(previous) of Gnome.
[17:32] <FreeBDSM> TJ-: unrecognised (btw, there's a typo! it should be recognized): md component or device - /dev/sdc1
[17:32] <FreeBDSM> same for /dev/sdc
[17:33] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: "unrecognised" is correct
[17:33] <FreeBDSM> well, pidgin underscores unrecognised for me with a red wavy line as it is out of dictionary
[17:34] <FreeBDSM> doesn't do the same for unrecognized
[17:34] <TJ-> FreeBDSM: probably you're using en_US not en_GB language
[17:34] <TJ-> US English often uses 'z' where real English uses 's'
[17:34] <FreeBDSM> right
[17:34] <FreeBDSM> nvm then
[17:34] <FreeBDSM> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unrecognised
[17:35] <michael___> yeah kde plasma is pretty nice
[17:35] <michael___> and I can even drag and drop files from my windows partition!
[17:41] <dnzm> I already told you there's at least read-only support for ntfs, didn't I ;-)
[17:43] <FreeBDSM> `lvcreate --name x --size 100%FREE myvg` fails with `invalid argument for --size: 100%FREE`
[17:44] <FreeBDSM> weird, `-l 100%FREE` worked fine
[17:46] <JonelethIrenicus> can some one help with this error https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TgqHhhc3D7/
[17:50] <Ampelbein> FreeBDSM: the -l option translates to --extents, short option for --size is -L
[17:51] <JonelethIrenicus> anybody know
[17:52] <JonelethIrenicus> i looked at my UUID and it all looks good
[17:52] <JonelethIrenicus> it is using the PARTUUID
[18:00] <ioria> JonelethIrenicus, are you sure you are on Ubuntu ?
[18:01] <JonelethIrenicus> ioria: why because i have cryptsetup-initramfs
[18:02] <paulatinamente> I need to hotspot my wifi onto my cellphone but I don't know how that is done newbiely. Please tell me what bunches of stuff to type on the terminal so as to make it possible to easily and through GUI rout wifi to my cellphone from my laptop thx
[18:02] <ioria> JonelethIrenicus, can you please run  dpkg -S /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/kernelstub/drive.py    ?
[18:07] <TJ-> JonelethIrenicus: it looks like the cryptsetup-bin package may not be installed, OR, there is no entry in /etc/crypttab for a boot device
[18:07] <TJ-> !info cryptsetup-initramfs
[18:07] <TJ-> !info cryptsetup-initramfs disco
[18:08] <murthy> I am a kubuntu user and I would like to know how to set system wide dns ip as my router doesn't provide option to change the dns server
[18:10] <JonelethIrenicus> ioria: kernelstub: /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/kernelstub/drive.py
[18:10] <JonelethIrenicus> TJ-: i just removed that package
[18:10] <JonelethIrenicus> TJ-: I wasn't using it
[18:11] <TJ-> JonelethIrenicus: makes sense
[18:11] <ioria> JonelethIrenicus, apt-cache policy kernelstub
[18:21] <JonelethIrenicus> ioria:thanks i think that might be it
[18:34] <woenx> Hi. I have a small issue in a share computer. I see other user's trash from a network share in my recycle bin. What could be happening?
[18:35] <woenx> network shares are mounted using sshfs
[18:36] <woenx> Maybe because I didn't specify the uid and gid of each user, and it's using the server uid and gid?
[18:37] <woenx> (I don't think so, UID and GID are identical in the desktop and in the server where the share is)
[18:39] <yeats> woenx: are the uid/gid different on the other user's files from your perspective? (meaning on the drive as mounted on your workstation)
[18:39] <woenx> yeats: I am not sure, I don't know how to browse to that particular trash from a console
[18:40] <woenx> yeats: However, I can see that trash in the server (with the other user ownership, as it should be)
[18:40] <yeats> woenx: (it's unclear from what you've said so far what exactly the setup is)
[18:40] <woenx> (I tried remounting the share specifying the uid and gid, and nothing changed)
[18:41] <woenx> Ok. I have this in /etc/fstab
[18:41] <woenx> sshfs#user2@box-media:/mnt/md0/Personal/user2 /home/user2/Documents fuse defaults,allow_other,_netdev,IdentityFile=/home/user2/.ssh/id_rsa 0 0
[18:41] <woenx> to mount User2 documents in the desktop computer
[18:41] <woenx> Let's say I am User 1
[18:41] <woenx> I have an identical line for me, User 1
[18:41] <woenx> the share is mounted and it works and everything
[18:41] <woenx> However, User2's trash appears in User1 recycle bin in Ubuntu
[18:42] <woenx> (and in the server it is in /mnt/md0/Personal/user2/.Trash-1000 )
[18:42] <woenx> with user2 ownership
[18:43] <pestlakare> hey
[18:43] <lapideviridi> I'm trying to mount a folder via sshfs. Client says "read: Connection reset by peer", server auth.log says "sshd[3571]: Connection closed by 192.168.1.125 port 50306 [preauth]". Any suggestions? I have already added the user to fuse group and rebooted.
[18:43] <yeats> woenx: do your trash files appear in User2's trash?
[18:43] <pestlakare> do u guys know any coding channels?
[18:43] <woenx> yeats: let me check (if I remember her password...)
[18:43] <Platonides> lapideviridi: does normal ssh there work?
[18:43] <yeats> !alis | pestlakare
[18:44] <lapideviridi> Platonides, yeah, works both ways.
[18:44] <pestlakare> ok thanks
[18:45] <Platonides> woenx: I would check that in the identical line, the three instances of user2 have been replaced
[18:45] <lapideviridi> Platonides, I can't recall ever getting sshfs to work on the first try, but it usually resolves to adding the user to fuse
[18:46] <Platonides> it generally works :/
[18:46] <woenx> yeats: No, my deleted files (local or in the server) go to my recycle bin.
[18:46] <woenx> however, the thick plottens: User2 has two .Trash files in the server: .Trash-1000 and .Trash-1001. I (user1) see what's in .Trash-1000, and she (user2) what's in .Trash-1001.
[18:47] <Platonides> I guess user1 uid is 1000 and user2 uid is 1001
[18:47] <yeats> woenx: I would consider that an important clue
[18:47] <woenx> Platonides: yes, those are the uid!
[18:47] <lapideviridi> Platonides, looks like the I had to uncomment user_allow_other in /etc/fuse.conf. Way down on a stack overflow tread. Thanks anyway!
[18:48] <woenx> but these trash folders were created automatically. How come they ended up in my recycle bin?
[18:48] <Platonides> oh, you were trying to access the mount from a user different than the one who mounted the file, lapideviridi
[18:49] <Platonides> I was assuming it was the same one
[18:49] <Platonides> good you found out
[18:49] <yeats> woenx: maybe user2 was assigned uid 1000 initially?
[18:49] <woenx> I don't think so... but I guess it's possible
[18:49] <woenx> so let's say I move everything from .Trash-1000 to .Trash-1001. Wouldn't Ubuntu re-create .Trash-1000 in her session next time?
[18:51] <lapideviridi> Platonides, so the files were owned by the wrong user on the server?
[18:54] <kepper> s
[18:54] <kepper> ;;;
[18:57] <woenx> Anyway, Let's hope a .Trash-1000 doesn't magically appears
[18:58] <woenx> Ok, now my trash is finally empty... but it still shows the full trash icon.
[18:59] <woenx> I hope it's a session thing
[18:59] <woenx> I'm going to restart
[19:04] <r0b0n> hello
[19:25] <qwebirc43538> "/topic"
[19:28] <ShyGirl99> Hi, boys! It's time for my Saturday Live Show. I start in 10 minutes. If you would like to watch, just send me a message "Free Vip Invite" in the Cam Site (and let the fun begin!). Link: http://lnnk.in/@vCams
[19:34] <t4nk-freenode> I have an nvidia c61,  or: geforce 6150SE nForce430 onboard in this old pc... what driver should I install for that?
[19:36] <ioria> t4nk-freenode, run  ubuntu-drivers list
[19:37] <t4nk-freenode> mmmm ioria, both normal user and sudo report nothing on that
[19:38] <ioria> t4nk-freenode,  cat /etc/issue   ?
[19:38] <t4nk-freenode> Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS
[19:38] <ioria> t4nk-freenode,  lspci -k | grep -EA3 'VGA|3D'
[19:39] <ioria> t4nk-freenode,  lspci -k | grep -EA3 'VGA|3D'  | nc termbin.com 9999
[19:40] <t4nk-freenode> sorry, ioria, on different pc here so I have to type it... also, no active paste site, But
[19:40] <t4nk-freenode> it reported as I did above, card type,
[19:41] <t4nk-freenode> but Kernel modules: nvidiafb AND nouveau are listed!
[19:41] <ioria> t4nk-freenode,  i'd like to see it; and btw you should be  18.04.2  (have you ever run sudo apt full-upgrade ?)
[19:42] <ioria> t4nk-freenode,  if that card wants 304 you're out of luck
[19:42] <ioria> t4nk-freenode,  and the line : 	Kernel driver in use   ?
[19:43] <t4nk-freenode> ou're kidding me, right? what's up with 304? I used to use it for my gt220
[19:43] <ioria> not available on 18.04
[19:43] <ioria> !info nvidia-304
[19:44] <t4nk-freenode> dpaste.com/3FSQJ8S
[19:45] <ioria> t4nk-freenode,  cat /proc/cmdline
[19:45] <ioria> you can paste here
[19:46] <t4nk-freenode> no I can't, lol ;) but like I said, I put modprobe.blacklist=nouveau in there
[19:46] <t4nk-freenode> maybe I didn't mention that btw
[19:47] <ioria> t4nk-freenode, why did you blacklist nouvea ?
[19:47] <ioria> it's the only divers you can use
[19:48] <t4nk-freenode> well... resolution was ok with that, but it hung my system, for instance when having some apps open and then running video.. starting 0ad instantly hung my sys
[19:48] <t4nk-freenode> and blacklisting nouveau at least doesn't seem to hang my system
[19:48] <ioria> t4nk-freenode, remove that or install 16.04
[19:49] <t4nk-freenode> how long will that remain supported for?
[19:49] <ioria> 2021 ?
[19:49] <t4nk-freenode> mmm that's an option
[19:50] <t4nk-freenode> pretty sure it will want 304, I even thought about giving my friend my old gt220, but that one also wants 304
[19:50] <ioria> t4nk-freenode, can't you replace the card ?
[19:51] <t4nk-freenode> this particular pc has it onboard, and I have the old card lying around... but maybe he should buy another card indeed
[19:52] <ioria> yep
[19:52] <Bashing-om>  t4nk-freenode: See: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases . nvidia dropped 304 support in 2017.
[19:53] <t4nk-freenode> :( what a horrible nvidia-mess again.. unbelievable; I myself got an rx580 and am trouble free( apart from some glitches after suspend/resume)
[19:55] <jeff_j> Actually AMD cards are way less trouble on Linux
[20:03] <TreyHarris> If you need a newer version of a utility in the official repo for your Ubuntu version, how should you do it? I know if a program's docs tell me there's an alternate apt repo I can add-apt-repo it, but if it doesn't? Is there a search engine to see if there's a newer apt somewhere? Download the source and use checkinstall?
[20:03] <TreyHarris> Googling is pretty unhelpful unless the version number is very distinctive.
[20:06] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: which utility?
[20:08] <coconut> TreyHarris: you want a utility to detect whether there are new versions of apps outside the normal repo and searching in all add-apt repo's?    I don't think it's there.
[20:08] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: ncdu
[20:08] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: which version of ubuntu?
[20:09] <mr_yogurt> what do the different desktop environments actually offer other than how much resources they use
[20:09] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: 18.04.2 LTS
[20:09] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: why do you think you need a newer version of ncdu than what is available in Ubuntu 18.04?
[20:09] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: I'd like color support
[20:11] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: color support was added as an experiment only 4 months ago. There is no debian package for 1.14
[20:12] <coconut> mr_yogurt: they offer choice for which one pleases the most
[20:13] <jeff_j> mr_yogurt, they offer different workflows, like.. gnome3 is a more visual/keyboard orientated DE, but xfce is more of a classic
[20:14] <jeff_j> Also different DE's have unique features, like google integration on Gnome, KDE connect etc
[20:14] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: so, checkinstall? That's fine, I know how to use it
[20:16] <TreyHarris> Or in cases like this, is a manual installation into /usr/local or even ~/bin preferred?
[20:16] <mr_yogurt> is there an in-depth comparison anywhere? so far all i've found is just 'lubuntu more lightweight than xubuntu more lightweight than kubuntu' and maybe a small bit about how they look
[20:18] <jeff_j> mr_yogurt, usually Phoronix does these kind of comparisons, but really light weight DE's use <300mb ram at idle
[20:19] <coconut> mr_yogurt: in the linux world it should be your own choice for a DE, so the advise it always to test it out yourself.
[20:19] <mr_yogurt> coconut even if i'm trying them out i still need to narrow it down first
[20:19] <coconut> and i would try ubuntu mate, as it like it the most
[20:19] <jeff_j> In my experience, LXQT (ubuntu 18.80?)  has been running on my 2gb Ram 1.6Gz notebook really well for a long time
[20:20] <coconut> mr_yogurt: true, you do need some time for this
[20:21] <TreyHarris> My question, I guess, comes down to: can I use checkinstall with a fake package version like 1.13.99 so that, if a blessed package >= 1.14 comes out, I'll pick it up in upgrading? If so, that makes more sense; otherwise, I guess I should install into /usr/local or somewhere
[20:21] <jeff_j> mr_yogurt, you got xfce,lqde,lqxt,enlightenment,gnome,kde,budgie,i3,mate,cinnamon :D
[20:22] <mr_yogurt> one thing i noticed was that gnome out of the box handled my laptop mouse correctly
[20:22] <mr_yogurt> kde did not
[20:22] <mr_yogurt> any reason gnome would be more polished or is it just an accident gnome does better here
[20:23] <gambl0re> is turbo boost supposed to be enabled by default?
[20:24] <coconut> mr_yogurt: you ask this ten different people, you get ten different answers too.
[20:25] <jeff_j> mr_yogurt, it is all dependend on your hardware, you can have two different builds and two DE's would function differently (slightly)
[20:25] <mr_yogurt> coconut the specific question about gnome being more polished than kde b/c of a laptop mouse issue or the general one about which distro
[20:25] <mr_yogurt> err, de
[20:26] <jeff_j> Gnome is easier to configure because it is intentionally made to be simple out of the box and they have more developers and major vendors (latest being Ubuntu) are now supporting them
[20:27] <coconut> mr_yogurt: full hardware support out of the box tend to be different over different distro's/DE's.
[20:28] <mr_yogurt> does gnome play well with battery life
[20:40] <texla> coconut which do you recommend gnome classic or gnome xorg
[20:43] <Joeboy> Any ideas why my alt-tab doesn't do anything after upgrading to 19.04? It seems like the behaviour is supposed to have changed, but it should still do *something*, right?
[20:44] <Joeboy> Maybe I just have to get used to Super+Tab
[20:50] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: did you compile it from source yet?
[20:52] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: not yet, I was writing up my question for askubuntu.com
[20:55] <t4nk-freenode> ioria, Bashing-om, jeff_j; so, I took the gt220 out of my old pc, no picture... inspected the card and discovered some traces were worn away; took out the old soldering iron and soldered some tiny leads onto the traces...
[20:55] <Mech0z> I have installed this wireless driver for my DWA-192 on Ubuntu 18.04, how do I check if its running USB3 or USB2 mode?
[20:55] <t4nk-freenode> it now booted up, runs nouveau, and no crashes!
[20:56] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: https://launchpad.net/~leftyfb/+archive/ubuntu/ncdu/
[20:58] <FreeBDSM> I love ncdu
[20:59] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: thank you, but that brings up another question: when (if ever) should checkinstall be preferred over a PPA?
[21:00] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: depends on the source I guess. Is the ppa trusted? If so, I'd go with the ppa.
[21:02] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: When would my own ppa not be trusted?
[21:02] <TreyHarris> I don't understand
[21:02] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: I didn't assume it would be your own ppa. Obviously that would be trusted
[21:03] <TreyHarris> That was my question... why would one use checkinstall rather than publishing to your ppa?
[21:03] <TreyHarris> I've used my ppa when I thought it was likely to be useful to others
[21:03] <TreyHarris> And checkinstall for quick-and-dirty installs
[21:03] <TreyHarris> But perhaps that's the wrong way to look at it?
[21:04] <FreeBDSM> no
[21:05] <leftyfb> TreyHarris: To be honest, I'm not that familiar with checkinstall. But adding ppa's as part of a fresh install is fairly simple and clean to do. Checkinstall I can see running into some issues.
[21:06] <Piraty> hi there. I'm checking out do-release-upgrade and have this question: what is the (technical) difference of "-m server" vs. "-m desktop" during an upgrade? what happens if i omit the -m flag?
[21:06] <Piraty> the manpage doesn't really enlighten me
[21:07] <Piraty> also, on some official wiki page i read that this tool will automatically spawn a screen session to not fail during connectivity loss (if run remotely) but i tend to run my stuff in tmux. will that conflict?
[21:15] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: Well, when I added your PPA to my list and did an upgrade, it picked it up, so I'd assume if an official repo publishes a 1.14, it would be installed instead of your PPA package. So that seems to do the trick. I wonder if checkinstall has the same behavior or not.
[21:27] <stoned> How do I know my video card driver in use?
[21:30] <stoned> I found it from lshw that I'm using nouveau. How can I switch to nvidia?
[21:30] <stoned> I ahve gtx 275
[21:30] <stoned> !nvidia
[21:52] <activist> hi guys. i am trying to copy whole USB drive to another one with this command but i am getting /dev/sdc permission denied error. cat /dev/sdb > /dev/sdc
[21:52] <activist> bash: /dev/sdc: Permission denied
[21:55] <xaviergmail> Hey, I'm trying to set up unattended-upgrades but I'm having the following issue with my mail config: https://xavie.ru/i/czv5Rv.txt
[21:56] <xaviergmail> I use msmtp and I have a valid /etc/msmtprc with a 'from' field being a valid address, but it seems for some reason the unattended-upgrades script is overwriting from: to be root@localhost?
[21:57] <xaviergmail> Here's my /etc/msmtprc: https://xavie.ru/i/cGhW3u.txt
[21:58] <hugoit> xaviergmail, does zogo allow you to use the 'REDACTED' account for authentication?  i doubt it...
[21:58] <hugoit> *zoho
[21:59] <xaviergmail> hugoit: REDACTED as in, I've redacted that part of the configuration from what I published for security concerns
[22:00] <hugoit> xaviergmail, ah sorry, i was being slow!   continue with the logs
[22:00] <xaviergmail> It is configured with the right email address, `echo "Subject: test test" | sendmail -v test@email.com` works with the configuration
[22:01] <xaviergmail> No worries, let me get the msmtp log up
[22:01] <leftyfb> activist: sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=sdc bs=1024M status=progress
[22:01] <TreyHarris> activist: a) you need to be root to write directly to a disk device, and b) `cat` is not the program for this. You want `dd`.
[22:03] <TreyHarris> activist: yeah, what leftyfb said ^^
[22:04] <activist> thanks for your effort i am using detached /boot partition and does it works for me? sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=sdc bs=1024M status=progress?
[22:04] <stoned> How can I get Xmonad 0.15 in Ubuntu 18.04?
[22:04] <xaviergmail> This is my /root/.msmtp.log : https://xavie.ru/i/1XoMb9o.txt it seems to get from= right so I'm not sure what's happening
[22:05] <leftyfb> !latest | stoned
[22:06] <TreyHarris> activist: I don't know what you're asking. "detaching" the boot partition generally results in an immediate crash unless your use of "detach" isn't the meaning I'm familiar with
[22:08] <activist> treyharris let me explain. I am using detached /boot partition on a USB and i want to backup that with second another USB drive. My question does that command works for this job? I just want to backup that whole USB (/boot partition) drive.
[22:09] <leftyfb> activist: why are you doing this?
[22:09] <activist> which one?
[22:09] <activist> copy USB drive or detached /boot?
[22:09] <leftyfb> activist: why are you "backing up" your /boot partition to another dirve?
[22:10] <leftyfb> also, why on usb drives?
[22:10] <activist> because it is decrypting my OS
[22:11] <leftyfb> activist: That still doesn't answer the question as to why you're backing it up and why it's on a usb flash drive
[22:12] <activist> leftyfb are you really asking this question? Why people is backing up their data?
[22:12] <activist> For fun?
[22:14] <activist> i can't understand why are you asking this question. People is backing up their data because of earthquake, firing, lost, stolen, etc. :| :S
[22:14] <hugoit> xaviergmail, can you paste the contents of /etc/apticron/apticron.conf
[22:15] <xaviergmail> hugoit: Does not exist
[22:15] <leftyfb> activist: use dd. It will accomplish your goal
[22:16] <activist> leftyfb may i ask why did you ask that question? I am just curious.
[22:17] <activist> and other question how can i compress my /boot partition and send it cloud?
[22:19] <leftyfb> activist: dd sdb to a file and pipe it to something like gz or xz
[22:19] <hugoit> xaviergmail, what instructions did you follow to setup the notifications?
[22:20] <activist> i am not familiar with them. anyway, i can find from the internet. appreciate leftyfb.
[22:21] <xaviergmail> hugoit: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates and I just set up msmtp myself but I see the other page mentioning apticron now
[22:22] <xaviergmail> I'm going to switch to postfix instead of msmtp and see if that does anything
[22:22] <leftyfb> activist: please do not PM
[22:23] <activist> can you extend last sentence? i couldn't understand exactly.
[22:23] <hugoit> xaviergmail, yeah give that a whirl and come back with any issues - postfix is a bit more complex to setup, but i know it works :)
[22:25] <leftyfb> activist: what do you mean?
[22:26] <activist> i mean you told dd sdb to a file and pipe it gz. i couldn't understand this.
[22:27] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: dunno if it's what activist is doing, but I have been in high-security settings where boot was off of Ironkey and you needed both the Ironkey and a password to decrypt the data drive, and the key was to stay with the user at all times so it served as a second factor. Creating a duplicate that was then held in escrow by compliance authorities was a required step in the process.
[22:27] <TreyHarris> activist: I think you didn't understand "PM"? leftyfb was asking you not to private message but use the channel.
[22:29] <leftyfb> activist: sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=/path/to/sdb.img bs=1024M status=progress && xz /path/to/sdb.img /path/to/compress-sdb.xz
[22:30] <TreyHarris> activist: No offense, but you seem to know just enough to be dangerous to yourself right now. Read dd's manual; you'll see that if= stands for "input file" and "of=" for "output file". Usually in this circumstance you'd put a disk on both ends, but you can put a filename in the "of=" spot and get a file (an image) you can move elsewhere; you can also leave out the "of=" to write to standard output, which you
[22:30] <TreyHarris> can then stream via a pipe to whatever cloud storage tool you use.
[22:31] <TreyHarris> (And if that's your plan, it's rarely worthwhile to insert an xz, gzip, etc. step because data-streaming protocols do compression automatically unlessy you disable it.)
[22:32] <activist> treyharris my goal is: i am using detached /boot partition for encrypted OS and i want to backup this with 2 ways. First one clone to second another USB and second one is compress whole USB (/boot partition) and encrypt that with GPG and then send it cloud.
[22:32] <activist> and appreciate for your interest. thanks.
[22:32] <TreyHarris> Could you define "detached /boot partition" for me, please?
[22:33] <activist> sure. my OS is encrypted and i configured my OS (while installing) to boot from my USB.
[22:33] <activist> Just selected my USB drive in partition menu and i made it /boot
[22:34] <activist> and then installed.
[22:34] <TreyHarris> activist: Is there more? I'm not following what makes it "detached".
[22:34] <activist> one second.
[22:35] <leftyfb> activist: unless that usb flash drive has some decrypting "key" file on it, there's no point in separating the /boot. There's nothing special about it.
[22:36] <activist> leftyfb if someone stole my laptop he can't brute force the key because HDD is completely RAW.
[22:36] <leftyfb> activist: huh?
[22:37] <activist> huh?
[22:37] <activist> there is nothing special about it for you but i am being happy with this.
[22:38] <leftyfb> activist: just because GRUB is asking you for your decryption passphrase, that doesn't mean there's anything special about your /boot. Keeping it on a flash drive serves no purpose. Anyone could add their own boot using many other means to get to the same point of asking for the passphrase.
[22:38] <leftyfb> activist: you're overcomplicating things for no benefit
[22:38] <activist> yes also i am using grub-mkpasswd-pkdf2 with SHA512
[22:38] <Walex> leftyfb: there is in obvious and important purpose to keeping '/boot' on a flash SSD drive: tamper avoidance
[22:39] <leftyfb> Walex: that is false security
[22:39] <activist> false security huh
[22:39] <Walex> leftyfb: so you say...
[22:40] <Walex> leftyfb: for some people it may be important, for most people it is not.
[22:40] <Platonides> leftyfb: how is that false security?
[22:40] <activist> i am not expert more than you. isn't grub-mkpasswd-pkdf2 secure?
[22:41] <Walex> activist: "secure" is a misleading word... unless you mean "more expensive to work around"
[22:41] <activist> i know walex. i am just trying to pay attention my setup.
[22:41] <Platonides> you should define what you are securing against
[22:42] <activist> i am a lawyer in a human right comunity.
[22:42] <Walex> activist: in that case you need to make it really expensive to find workarounds. Not so easy
[22:43] <Walex> activist: you are the first person on IRC that has an obviously valid reason to worry about these things.
[22:43] <Walex> I mean: that I have met on IRC...
[22:43] <leftyfb> activist: a usb drive with ubuntu live on it cares nothing of your password protected boot or the fact that you removed your /boot. The ONLY security you have mentioned so far is hinting that you might have encrypted your drive. Though I wonder if you password protecting GRUB might be what you were referring to. The rest is not security in any sense of the word
[22:44] <activist> walex let me explain my setup. Detached /boot partition and LUKS serpent-xts-plain64 the highest key sizes. sha512 and HDD password and grub password. Is this enough? Btw password character is unpredictable 63
[22:44] <TreyHarris> leftyfb: I don't follow what you mean by "false security"? If it's like the workstations at the site I'm talking about (which was machines that could get root on the credit card database of a major Internet shopping site I'm sure you use) all the other ports are epoxied closed and the case is physically locked. Someone getting access to the workstation without access to the USB key (which was itself
[22:44] <TreyHarris> encrypted, then contained a FDE encryption key that was also encrypted) would have no way to gain access, even if they had keylogged the user's password.
[22:44] <Walex> leftyfb: you are underestimating "activist" what he said made sense at least to me.
[22:45] <activist> treyharris i stand clapped.
[22:45] <TreyHarris> Walex: I think our credit-card database controlled-access site at the river-themed company I mentioned might be considered "legitimate" ;-)
[22:45] <activist> i am just trying to secure my laptop against evil guys/girls
[22:45] <activist> Even if they stole my USB it is password protected grub.
[22:46] <Walex> activist: some of your measures are not very useful.
[22:46] <Walex> activist: some are pretty good
[22:46] <activist> please fix those walex. which one is not useful?
[22:46] <Walex> activist: a GRUB password is almost worthless.
[22:46] <leftyfb> activist: that's good. But password protecting GRUB and sticking /boot on a usb key isn't secure. Only mildly annoying to anyone trying to gain access
[22:46] <activist> you mean it can be cracked.
[22:47] <Walex> activist: no, it is very easy to workaround
[22:47] <activist> can you clarify?
[22:47] <activist> i am just trying to figure out why GRUB password is not useful.
[22:47] <leftyfb> Walex: It only asks for the password if you boot GRUB from the /boot. If you boot from a different usb drive, there's no password protected boot
[22:47] <Walex> activist: a bit too long. As "leftyfb" says, anybody can boot your drive without GRUB
[22:47] <activist> yes but he must have dec key for LUKS.
[22:48] <Walex> activist: that's the important bit.
[22:48] <leftyfb> activist: that is the only thing that is secure in your setup. Remove the rest
[22:48] <Walex> activist: BTW your choice of encryption is bizarre
[22:48] <TreyHarris> activist: =Walex. Your security is as good as the best protection you have that's not negated by the worst protection you have. You generally shouldn't use any additional security features beyond what are necessary. A GRUB password is not useful security. If you use something like IronKey where the entire drive is password-protected, that's a different matter.
[22:48] <Walex> activist: don't remove the separate boot drive
[22:48] <leftyfb> Walex: that serves no purpose
[22:49] <Walex> leftyfb: bad people can edit the initial RAM disk on '/boot'
[22:49] <Walex> except that "activist" has got the whole disk hw encrypted
[22:49] <activist> walex why bizarre?
[22:50] <leftyfb> Walex: ok, so you're referring to someone planting a script to run after the disk is decrypted. Ok. I can see that.
[22:50] <activist> bad people can edit but i believe they can't view my LUKS password in cleartext, correct?
[22:50] <Walex> activist: " HDD password" hopefully means that you are sure that the HDD does hardware encryption
[22:50] <Walex> activist: if they can edit your '/boot' they can do anything they want
[22:51] <activist> walex if they can edit /boot partition don't they need to crack my LUKS dec key?
[22:51] <activist> for decrypting /boot partition?
[22:52] <activist> Also i know HackingTeam was serving BIOS malwares.
[22:52] <j0seph> activist: theoretically, they could edit the /boot partition to include some script that could - for the sake of argument - steal / modify data once you decrypted the drive yourself
[22:52] <Walex> activist: how can youy boot from an encrypted /boot?
[22:52] <j0seph> that is the main problem with an unencrypted /boot
[22:52] <Walex> activist: many of the things you have done make sense, but it looks like that you don't understand them fully.
[22:53] <Walex> activist: and in your job that's dangerous
[22:54] <activist> j0seph you mean if bad guys does have the access my USB drive they can put a script for stealing decryption key after decrypting process, correct?
[22:54] <activist> walex if possible could you please improve my setup?
[22:54] <leftyfb> activist: not the key, but anything else on your drive
[22:54] <Walex> activist: if someone tamper with *any* of your boot steps they can do *anything*
[22:54] <j0seph> activist: theoretically yes.
[22:54] <activist> what should i do for this issue?
[22:54] <j0seph> keep that USB drive safe
[22:55] <Walex> activist: actually there are various details here
[22:55] <Walex> the main detail is: if your drive supports good HW encryption, that covers everything
[22:55] <Walex> activist: then you don't really need LUKS or even a separate /boot/drive
[22:56] <activist> serpent-xts-plain64 is a good option?
[22:56] <leftyfb> j0seph: they're not getting the decryption passphrase. Not without writing something to look like it's prompting for the passphrase again and log what is entered. Only if activist falls for typing it in again
[22:56] <activist> You mean HDD Password in BIOS, is that?
[22:56] <Walex> activist: serpent-xts-plain64 probably is good but it is very strange, wonder where you found it.
[22:56] <Walex> activist: yes, the password in BIOS or something similar.
[22:56] <Walex> activist: there is a standard called "OPAL"
[22:57] <TreyHarris> Walex: To reduce exposure to over-the-shoulder or hardware keylogging attacks, you still need the key on a separate device. Because you want the FDE done by a key that cannot be created entirely with the password but also requires a second factor
[22:58] <activist> walex i found that from here https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/354787/list-available-methods-of-encryption-for-luks
[22:58] <Walex> activist: once a friend in a confidential job (just a nurse) asked me to look into that, so I wrote something up, I'll tryu to find it
[22:59] <activist> i would be pleased walex.
[22:59] <activist> also i heard Librem key and PureOS but i am not sure about that.
[22:59] <Walex> TreyHarris: we are talking basic here...
[23:00] <Walex> TreyHarris: my next suggestion would have been something like a YubiKey
[23:00] <activist> As i know PureOS does have the ability your BIOS is compromised or not. You can see in PureOS with librem key.
[23:00] <Walex> TreyHarris: or a USB stick with a PIN
[23:02] <activist> walex USB stick with a PIN seems good. I will look tomorrow that which is confirmed by NIST.
[23:02] <TreyHarris> Walex: I'm just not sure that any steps more complex than the simplest FDE boot your distro offers are worth it if a memorable and easily-typable password is the entirety of your protection.
[23:05] <activist> i found. https://puri.sm/posts/pureboot-the-high-security-boot-process/
[23:05] <Walex> activist: so summarize a long story, you need to think what the bad guys can do to you and how much it costs, a list:
[23:06] <TreyHarris> activist: What specific attacks do you want to guard against? Your laptop being stolen? If so, any secure FDE is sufficient. Keylogging and temporary physical access (when you're asleep or when your laptop is apart from you, whether seized temporarily or whatever)? Then you must have a second factor. Are there other scenarios you're concerned about? And finally, do you want the easiest way to get the data to
[23:06] <TreyHarris> be to physically hurt you?
[23:06] <activist> walex i can't buy a HSM for keeping my keys. This is the best i could do. If you and other fellows improves my setup i would be pleased..
[23:07] <Walex> activist: they get your drive powered off; they get your machine powered off; they have access to your machine wherever it is; they have access to the room where your machine is and can put in it hidden cams and microphones; they can put a van with sensitive equipment up to 10-20m from your machines; they can beat you up.
[23:07] <leftyfb> This conversation should really be moved to #security or #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:07] <Walex> activist: roughly in order of expensiveness
[23:07] <activist> i don't know what specific attacks do i want to guard because i don't know what can that bad guys do. I don't know who they are and i don't know what they can do.
[23:09] <activist> leftyfb sorry for the noise. I disturbed you.
[23:10] <TreyHarris> activist: Assume they can't break the encryption of a security-community-accepted FDE system; don't worry about that. Not that it isn't possible, but there's nothing you can do about it. But if the security is dependent on how long and complex your passphrase is, that is a factor to consider.
[23:10] <leftyfb> activist: It's beyond the scope of the support provided by this channel
[23:10] <activist> i got it leftyfb. Thanks for this kind talking guys/girls. Appreciate you..
[23:11] <activist> btw walex i am waiting your setup :) i am curious.
[23:12] <Walex> activist: it is not a setup, it is information how to check whether a drive really claims to have hw encryption
[23:12] <activist> okay no worries. I love learning new things.
[23:12] <activist> It doesn't matter.
[23:14] <Walex> activist: may I PM you with a link?
[23:14] <activist> Sure. Everyone can PM to me.
[23:18] <Walex> activist: the basic things are: the drive and the BIOS must both support either the "ATA security extension" or "TCG OPAL" (for Ubuntu the ATA Security Extension is much better, because TCG OPAL is a bit more complicated).
[23:19] <activist> i got it. How can i learn my HDD supports that?
[23:19] <activist> or not
[23:19] <Walex> activist: manufacturer spec sheet to be sure.
[23:19] <TreyHarris> Walex: if this is OT and the conversation isn't moving elsewhere, I'll just mention that we preferred hardware-token and passphrase key unlocking over any biometrics because we never wanted to make it easier for a government or organized-crime APT to gain access via physical maiming than via coercion--we expected employees carrying sensitive data on their person to volunteer it before getting hurt.
[23:19] <activist> hmm.. i see. I need to release HDD and i need look.
[23:21] <Walex> TreyHarris: wise move. But a bit too advanced here so far.
[23:21] <Walex> activist: the other thing to have a look into in general is YubiKey.
[23:21] <Walex> activist: that's the most common" hardware token
[23:21] <Walex> activist: it is well support under Ubuntu
[23:22] <Walex> activist: the most common YubiKey handlong apps are in the default Ubuntu repositories
[23:22] <activist> Does Yubikey support LUKS? I mean can i re-configure my setup with that?
[23:22] <Walex> BTW except for 'ykman' which must be installed with 'pip'
[23:23] <Walex> activist: if you use a hw encryption drive LUKS is not very useful
[23:23] <Walex> activist: however YubiKey does support LUKS IIRC
[23:23] <activist> i see
[23:25] <Walex> activist: what YubiKey can do is protect your BIOS password and auth and sign keys
[23:26] <activist> i am using GPG but Yubikey doesn't support my keys :|
[23:26] <Walex> activist: that's very unlikely
[23:27] <TreyHarris> activist: I agree with Walex. So a stab in the dark: did you let your key expire? GPG will use an expired key but yell at you, but Yubikey won't.
[23:27] <Walex> activist: BTW I am still weirded our by your choice of LUKS scheme.
[23:28] <activist> walex may i ask which side of that came to you weird?
[23:28] <activist> serpent?
[23:29] <Walex> both serpent and plain64, and that you went out of your way to not take the default which is pretty good.
[23:29] <Walex> serpent is amazingly slow, epsecially as AES accel improved things a lot on recent CPUs.
[23:31] <TreyHarris> Walex: thank you. Over the years I learned to be frightened of any security configurations that were longer than they needed to be. That's how sites end up with so many password restrictions that they've actually collapsed the set of allowable passwords into the guessable range in an effort to make them "strong".
[23:31] <Walex> TreyHarris: I have seen that happend too, especially if they recommend password generators with limited character sets.
[23:32] <Walex> activist: this is the speed on a desktop CPU a few years old but with AES accel: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wbZkywNhkt/
[23:33] <TreyHarris> Walex: or have hand-typed password expiry times less than a year (_maybe_ six months).
[23:39] <TreyHarris> activist: Must go now, but if you aren't aware of Front Line Defenders, you should acquaint yourself--all they do is develop security best practices and tools for at-risk activists
[23:39] <activist> There is ESSIV technology for disk encryption for solving that task. You
[23:39] <activist> can not store additional data (without huge performance degradation),
[23:39] <activist> but you have not only the data, but sector's number. If you encrypt that
[23:39] <activist> sectors number with some secret key, then it will create unpredictable
[23:39] <activist> pseudo-random block of data, that can be used as initialization vector
[23:39] <activist> for each disk sector. CBC-ESSIV means using CBC mode of encryption with IVs generated using
[23:39] <Walex> activist: you are overthinking it...
[23:40] <activist> done, because they are useless in XTS mode, that add nothing to
[23:40] <activist> security.
[23:40] <activist>  There are many various block encryption modes of operation:
[23:40] <activist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_cipher_mode_of_operation
[23:40] <activist> Each have its own pros and cons, usecases. There is no "most
[23:40] <activist> secure": any of them (even ECB) can be used securely.
[23:40] <Walex> activist: not a smart move.
[23:43] <activist> i wrote but i guess it was bit long and mod made me quiet :)
[23:43] <activist> Here
[23:43] <activist> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/tTG2mJmBZB/
[23:44] <activist> btw i don't like any default things. Maybe you can call me paranoid but i am not happy with default things..
[23:45] <TreyHarris> activist: that is a VERY bad attitude to have. It is counter-productive.
[23:45] <activist> treyharris thank you for your thoughts. I will be learning new things with you and other fellows..
[23:45] <Walex> activist: ah yes, but that is ovcer the top
[23:45] <DixieNormous> Any links to security advice for ubuntu?
[23:45] <Walex> TreyHarris: another thing that usually diminishes security is very complicate firewall rules, which are very common and very easy to get wrong
[23:46] <Walex> activist: part of the problem is that only the default config gets extgensively tested
[23:46] <sonicwind> DixieNormous, https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=510812
[23:46] <activist> i know walex but i am not happy with those..
[23:46] <Walex> activist: because most people use it. Non default config can be buggy, and bugs are the #1 way to workaround security measures
[23:46] <Walex> s/be buggy/be more buggy/
[23:47] <activist> i see.
[23:47] <TreyHarris> I have worked with cryptographic systems designers all my life who have drilled one thing into my head: THEY do not feel qualified to make judgments about cryptological algorithms and do not dare deviate from the recommended defaults. As a security engineer, I'm _definitely_ not qualified, and an amateur shouldn't even consider looking cross-eyed at tweaking cryptography-related defaults.
[23:47] <Walex> DixieNormous: ubuntu "security" in general is more "dont do these not very wise things" than "do these very secure things".
[23:48] <TreyHarris> ("all my life" is a bit of hyperbole. Over 25 years, though.)
[23:49] <activist> maybe i am wrong. Can be
[23:49] <TreyHarris> Really must go now, but that "I avoid defaults out of paranoia" statement got my gander up--it's like wearing a tinfoil hat into a thunderstorm
[23:49] <FreeBDSM> is there a concept of 'last found window' in linux?
[23:50] <activist> treyharris bb
[23:50] <Walex> FreeBDSM: in the GUI?
[23:50] <Walex> TreyHarris: many thanks!
[23:50] <FreeBDSM> Walex: yeah, in window manager
[23:51] <FreeBDSM> or Xorg, I dunno
[23:51] <activist> btw may i ask does someone know why Ubuntu doesn't have hidden-service repo server list?
[23:51] <Walex> FreeBDSM: depends on the window manager
[23:51] <Walex> FreeBDSM: I guess you mean "the window that had focus because the current one", or something different?
[23:51] <Walex> FreeBDSM: I guess you mean "the window that had focus before the current one", or something different?
[23:52] <FreeBDSM> Walex: Xfwm4
[23:52] <leftyfb> activist: what is a "hidden service repo"
[23:52] <leftyfb> ^server
[23:52] <activist> leftyfb i used that command and output is in here. 3221225472 bytes (3,2 GB, 3,0 GiB) copied, 146 s, 22,1 MB/s
[23:52] <activist> 15376000000 bytes (15 GB, 14 GiB) copied, 674 s, 22,8 MB/s
[23:52] <activist> 14+1 records in
[23:52] <activist> 14+1 records out
[23:52] <activist> 15376000000 bytes (15 GB, 14 GiB) copied, 674,123 s, 22,8 MB/s
[23:52] <leftyfb> !paste | activist
[23:52] <activist> When i check the USB it is empty :S
[23:52] <Walex> activist: use paste for that
[23:53] <FreeBDSM> Walex: hmm, looks like my question was actually stupid. I took it from one context and asked in a namespace without context where it doesn't even make sense
[23:54] <leftyfb> activist: are you 100% sure your destination usb flash drive is the same EXACT size or larger than the source? Did you make sure both drives were unmounted when copying them?
[23:54] <activist> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/sh8vdM7nMG/
[23:54] <activist> Both of them 16G
[23:55] <activist> but sdb does have a sdb1 partition.
[23:55] <activist> Should i use sdb*
[23:55] <activist> No, they weren't unmounted when copying.
[23:56] <leftyfb> activist: both drives should be completely unmounted when using dd
[23:56] <activist> Uhh.
[23:56] <helpmewiththis> yep
[23:56] <activist> let me try again
[23:56] <envhy> i just erased my whole partition
[23:56] <FreeBDSM> why are there no smart check against such stupid mistakes?
[23:56] <Walex> envhy: no problem, usually easy to recover if it just the partition boundaries
[23:57] <envhy> i have no clue what im doing
[23:57] <Walex> FreeBDSM: because clueless people should not be doing sysadm ;-)
[23:57] <FreeBDSM> is it so hard for the system to grep `mount` for the path of the dd's path args?
[23:57] <FreeBDSM> Walex: that's gatekeeping.
[23:57] <envhy> i tried having a duel boot windows 7 and ubunta anddd erased it all lol
[23:57] <Walex> FreeBDSM: it is letting users burn their fingers :-)
[23:57] <FreeBDSM> Things should get simpler and more automatic, otherwise no progress is possible.
[23:58] <Walex> FreeBDSM: the UNIX way is "do what I say, not what I mean".
[23:58] <FreeBDSM> envhy: double kill duel! noice!
[23:58] <activist> leftyfb i unmounted both of them but i can't see those when i used df -h
[23:58] <activist> is it normal? How can i know which destination and source?
[23:58] <envhy> lol
[23:58] <leftyfb> activist: lsblk
[23:59] <FreeBDSM> yeah, `df -h` has to go
[23:59] <activist> no USB drives.
[23:59] <activist> with lsblk
[23:59] <FreeBDSM> well, then you don't have them attached
[23:59] <FreeBDSM> check dmesg