[19:38] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: yes headphones are a thing... and jack doesn't deal with it. It is ok to make that a bug :)
[19:41] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: with regard to keyboard volum controls, I do think We can fix that. I would call that a -desktop bug. I don't have a keyboard with volume controls to play with.
[19:47] <m_ad[m]> isn't there a option to add shortcuts to control the volume with those?
[19:47] <OvenWerks> Not an obvious one... but yes.
[19:48] <OvenWerks> The volumcontrol sets this based on what pulse tells them the default output is
[19:48] <OvenWerks> Thats not a great idea. So normally the volume control deals with hw:0,0,0
[19:49] <m_ad[m]> On KDE it's easy to set up shortcuts to control the volume but on Xfce i'm struggling to find that and get it done
[19:49] <OvenWerks> Pulse does have a @default which is always right.
[19:50] <OvenWerks> If I had a keyboard with Volume controls...
[19:50]  * OvenWerks keyboard is old enough to have an xt-at switch...
[19:51] <m_ad[m]> i guess that's really old?
[19:51] <OvenWerks> early 1980s I guess
[19:52] <OvenWerks> Full size din plug on it and real switches.
[19:52] <m_ad[m]> holy keystrokes Batman
[20:02] <OvenWerks> But yeah, knowing the volume up and down key names is the most important part of making a shortcut
[20:05] <OvenWerks> pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ +1db
[20:05] <OvenWerks> or something close to that
[20:06] <OvenWerks> Actually that works. change to -1db for down of course.
[20:33] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's not a -desktop bug. xfce4-volumed automatically detects whether or not you have media controls on your keyboard and assigns them regardless of keyboard shortcuts. Unfortunately, it does not survive a backend change. Afaik, it's a known bug.
[20:34] <Eickmeyer> Xubuntu suffers from the exact same problem.
[20:34] <OvenWerks> But if there is a keyboard shortcut in desktop that should override ?
[20:35] <Eickmeyer> Nope. xfce4-volumed does not depend on keyboard shortchuts.
[20:37] <OvenWerks> I understand that, but adding a shortcut may still work around it... maybe it will send both commands
[20:38] <OvenWerks> In which version did it start not working?
[20:38] <Eickmeyer> I don't remember. I know I found the fix from something 2016-2017-ish.
[20:38] <Eickmeyer> The problem is that not all keyboards send the same thing for the volume controls.
[20:39] <OvenWerks>  :P
[20:39] <OvenWerks> Is there a small set of what they do send?
[20:39] <Eickmeyer> I don't know.
[20:40] <OvenWerks> if it's only one or two or at least less than 10 and those ten are unique, it would be no problem.
[20:41] <Eickmeyer> I think a decent workaround would be to have -controls do something like "if ${XDG_DESKTOP}=="XFCE"; then killall xfce4-volumed; xfce4-volumed; fi".
[20:41] <Eickmeyer> ^when "Stop Jack" is pressed."
[20:41] <OvenWerks> EEEww...
[20:41] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. It sucks.
[20:42] <OvenWerks> smells anyway.
[20:42] <Eickmeyer> Very, very stinky, but the problem is that xfce4-volumed wasn't designed with Jack in mind.
[20:44] <OvenWerks> Actually it is just incorrect, it should use @DEFAULT_SINK@ as the device
[20:45] <Eickmeyer> As it does, but for some strange reason it doesn't survive a sink change.
[20:45] <Eickmeyer> The process just hangs, and has to be killed.
[20:50] <OvenWerks> Hmm The first person I talked to said it was using raw device names
[20:50] <OvenWerks> like 0,0,0
[20:50] <OvenWerks> or 0 actually.
[20:51] <OvenWerks> of course I have not gotten pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ +1db to not work here...
[20:51] <OvenWerks> (18.04)
[21:05] <OvenWerks> playing on 16.04 on my wife's computer. using Key-Mon it just shows "Vol+" and "Vol-" however when I make a short cut, it is shown as XF86AudioRaiseVolume
[21:05] <Eickmeyer> Found it. bug 1291855
[21:07] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: my understanding has always been that system or DE shortcuts grab the key stroke before any application sees it (causes trouble in Ardour)
[21:07] <Eickmeyer> Yes, but if we're using xfce, then the xfce "official" way is xfce4-volumed handles the volume control.
[21:08] <OvenWerks> So does using the mouse wheel on top of the controller icon also not work?
[21:09] <Eickmeyer> No, that works too, but people would rather use the volume keys sometimes.
[21:09]  * OvenWerks has never had that happen
[21:09] <OvenWerks> so the mouse wheel works but the keys don't?
[21:09] <Eickmeyer> Yes.
[21:10] <OvenWerks> I would think the applet would use the same command for both.
[21:10] <Eickmeyer> Hence the ancient bug report.
[21:10] <Eickmeyer> Looking at the package, there has been no bump in version number for several cycles, so the bug hasn't been addressed afaik.
[21:11] <Eickmeyer> I'm hoping bluesabre has some insight.
[21:14] <OvenWerks> <property name="XF86AudioRaiseVolume" type="string" value="pactl set-sink-
[21:15] <OvenWerks> volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ +1db"/>
[21:16] <OvenWerks> add to /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml
[21:16] <OvenWerks> The problem should go away.
[21:16] <Eickmeyer> Okay, so, according to Unit193 and brainwash, they don't even use xfce4-volumed anymore. They use xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin.
[21:17] <Eickmeyer> That handles the problem.
[21:17] <Eickmeyer> xfce4-volumed needs to be removed from our seed.
[21:17] <OvenWerks> hello bitrot
[21:17] <Eickmeyer> Yep.
[21:18] <Eickmeyer> Which means we need to remove xfce4-volumed from our seed, make sure we have xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin in our seed, and make sure it's in the default panel.
[21:18] <OvenWerks> The problem with our setup is that all the machines in the house that xfce run jackd from session start.
[21:19] <OvenWerks> The one we have is an indicator so it puts itself in the panel by itself.
[21:19] <Eickmeyer> That's probably indicator-sound, which is also subject to bitrot, and needs to be removed from the seed.
[21:20]  * Eickmeyer is noticing Xfce is getting less and less friendly to Jack
[21:20] <OvenWerks> So long as there is something there... and it does work.
[21:21]  * OvenWerks puts his Yf's machine back the way it was...
[21:21] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. Well, if it's working for Xubuntu, then it'll work for us.
[21:25] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: This too: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15332
[21:25] <Eickmeyer> Looks like there's a patch.
[21:31] <OvenWerks> If it's using dbus to connect and control, dbus should do that for the application
[21:32] <OvenWerks> In otherwords sending a command message to pulse should make it start if it is stopped and it should not matter if the running instance is the same one or not.
[21:33] <Eickmeyer> So, shoddy coding?
[23:46] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: just wondering if we should make a bunch of menu categories that are X-us-custom
[23:59] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: What would that do?
[23:59]  * Eickmeyer needs examples
[23:59] <OvenWerks> Well it would make it really easy for our menu-item editor to place items exactly where th euser wants