| wxl | i mean gtk has a future (not a particular bright one if you ask me, but whatever) but lxde really doesn't | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> any reference for your point of view? | 00:01 |
| wxl | yeah, they don't fix their bugs, development is almost halted to a stand still, and they're not gtk3 compliant | 00:02 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> i still use lxde for 18.04 for reliability esp on old box | 00:02 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> oh noted, afaik the gtk3 is a toolkit for developing the lxde ... then lxde still use old gtk … cmiiw | 00:04 |
| wxl | gtk3 is the latest version of the toolkit that lxde is built on, but lxde doesn't use it | 00:05 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> what's the main reason? | 00:06 |
| wxl | well A. it's hard, especially when you want to make it low-resource usage and B. their main developer left. see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK#Criticism | 00:07 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> looks like an one man show | 00:09 |
| wxl | also fyi GTK4 is on the horizon | 00:10 |
| wxl | so they're way behind the times | 00:10 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> Hong Jen Yee, developer of LXDE (the GTK version of which will be dropped and all efforts focused on the Qt port[30]), expressed disdain for version 3 of the GTK toolkit's radical API changes and increased memory usage, and ported PCMan File Manager (PCManFM) to Qt. PCManFM is being developed with a GTK and with a Qt backend at the | 00:12 |
| lubot | same time.[31] | 00:12 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> @ShiBonCip [Hong Jen Yee, developer of LXDE (the GTK version of which will be dropped and al …], that's why i got two kind of pcmanfm | 00:12 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> on 16.04 box | 00:12 |
| wxl | 64% complete on GTK4 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/milestones/1 | 00:14 |
| wxl | they just released 3.96.0 earlier this month, so they're running out of numbers quickly XD | 00:18 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> @ShiBonCip [on 16.04 box], looks like here i have gtk3 installed … <pre> … ii libgtk-3-0:amd64 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3 amd64 GTK+ graphical user interface library ii libgtk-3-bin 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3 | 00:18 |
| lubot | amd64 programs for the GTK+ graphical user interface li … brary </pre> | 00:18 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> ```ii libgtk-3-0:amd64 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3 amd64 GTK+ graphical user interface library ii libgtk-3-bin 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3 amd64 programs for the GTK+ graphical user int | 00:19 |
| lubot | erface li … brary``` | 00:19 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> @wxl [<wxl> they just released 3.96.0 earlier this month, so they're running out of nu …], that's means they are still developing | 00:19 |
| lynorian | well they could do .991 | 00:20 |
| wxl | heh yep | 00:21 |
| wxl | also the gtk developers are insane. proof: https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/ | 00:23 |
| wxl | tl;dr "GTK 4" doesn't land until about 18 months after the release of 4.0, as 4.6 | 00:24 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> ahhh ic ... that's why pidgin is overthrown from the irc client because of this GTK things | 00:28 |
| wxl | LXQt uses Qt. so we've worked hard at trying to use Qt apps. | 00:30 |
| wxl | theming is way easier that way too | 00:30 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> @wxl [<wxl> LXQt uses Qt. so we've worked hard at trying to use Qt apps.], make sense | 00:31 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> btw /dev/sdb1 1.6G 1.6G 0 100% /media/chika.tambun/Lubuntu 19.04 amd64 ... the disk complain abt read only ... is it normal? | 00:32 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> afaik the disk capacity is over 10Gb | 00:33 |
| wxl | depends on how you mounted it but you won't be writing to it very easily if it's 100% full XD | 00:33 |
| wxl | sdb represents the DISK, but sdb1 represents a PARTITION of that disk | 00:33 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> strange partition after usb-disk-creator | 00:36 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> it's just 32GB usb flashdisk | 00:36 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> wonder is it still bootable | 00:37 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> @ShiBonCip [strange partition after usb-disk-creator], is it normal? | 00:43 |
| lubot | <ShiBonCip> @ShiBonCip [strange partition after usb-disk-creator], last time for installation from usb disk ... what's the tool for creating the installer wxl? | 00:47 |
| === lubuntu is now known as Guest82173 | ||
| JohnDoe_71Rus | hi. i have nettop acer ao725 with lubuntu 18.04. On boot the touchpad is disabled and i need press Fn+F7 to enable it. how to enable touchpad at boot ? | 06:23 |
| === caribou is now known as Guest23822 | ||
| wxl | d/back | 16:49 |
| wxl | oops | 16:49 |
| lubot | <teward001> fail, wxl. :P | 16:50 |
| wxl | @ShiBonCip i use `dd` :) | 16:50 |
| sappheiros | when i press f11 terminal enters fullscreen but when i click view the rectangle is not filled blue | 17:35 |
| sappheiros | it is only filled blue if i click fullscreen from the menu item there. | 17:35 |
| sappheiros | is this a bug or a feature? | 17:35 |
| wxl | version? | 17:45 |
| sappheiros | wxl: QTerminal 0.9.0 | 17:50 |
| wxl | so lubuntu 19.04 then | 17:50 |
| sappheiros | 19.10 i think | 17:50 |
| wxl | you're using the unreleased development version? | 17:50 |
| * sappheiros checks how to check ubuntu version | 17:51 | |
| sappheiros | ohhhhhh | 17:51 |
| wxl | lsb_release -a | 17:51 |
| sappheiros | 18.10 i guess i meant ... lol since it's not october yet ... i'll try that command now, thanks, sorry | 17:51 |
| wxl | 18.10 is EoL. you need to upgrade to 19.04 | 17:51 |
| sappheiros | oops. i think i hit ctrl+shift+t and instead of opening a new tab it closed weechat returning to prompt ... yes, 18.10 cosmic. | 17:52 |
| sappheiros | i tried full upgrade clicking in muon package manager -- why can't i upgrade to 19.04 through the muon package manager "full upgrade" button? | 17:53 |
| sappheiros | thank you for alerting me to this new release | 17:53 |
| sappheiros | you prefer we use LXQt rather than 18.04 LTS's LXDE, right? | 17:58 |
| sappheiros | i mean, would it help you develop it if we did? | 17:58 |
| sappheiros | (i have 32-bit computer) | 17:59 |
| wxl | sappheiros: muon's for updating packages, not updating versions of the whole os. | 18:01 |
| wxl | and yes, you should use lxqt. lxde is dead in the water any way you cut it. | 18:01 |
| sappheiros | are the developers happy about this? or does it feel like "all that work has been made obsolete"? | 18:02 |
| wxl | !32-bit | sappheiros | 18:02 |
| wxl | ugh | 18:02 |
| wxl | !32 | 18:02 |
| wxl | !32bit | 18:02 |
| ubottu | Lubuntu 18.04 LTS is the last version to support 32-bit processors & will be supported until 2021. Support is highly limited, as we no longer provide images nor test packages for 32-bit. No other Ubuntu flavor offers 32-bit support. Discussion has been had to remove 32-bit packages from the archive. If `grep lm /proc/cpuinfo` succeeds, use 64-bit. | 18:02 |
| wxl | that | 18:02 |
| sappheiros | oh, darn. | 18:02 |
| sappheiros | last i read, i think from the lubuntu.me site, "32-bit users are needed, and development may cease if there aren't enough giving feedback" | 18:03 |
| wxl | i'm going to have a party when 18.04 support ends | 18:03 |
| sappheiros | lol | 18:03 |
| wxl | i am so happy to wash my hands of lxde | 18:03 |
| sappheiros | so then the decision was made after all, huh? ... | 18:03 |
| sappheiros | oh really? | 18:03 |
| wxl | uh yeah, it's on the blog | 18:03 |
| wxl | https://lubuntu.me/sunsetting-i386/ | 18:03 |
| sappheiros | thanks | 18:03 |
| sappheiros | so should i _downgrade_ from 18.10 to 18.04 so that when i have problems, asking for help will at least be officially-sanctioned? | 18:04 |
| sappheiros | to put it another way, is there a higher risk of wasting time asking for 18.10 help as a 32-bit user? | 18:04 |
| sappheiros | > Lubuntu 19.04 and future versions will not see a release for the i386 architecture | 18:05 |
| sappheiros | but ... i'm using it now ...? | 18:06 |
| sappheiros | aoeutnaoehu | 18:06 |
| sappheiros | sorry | 18:06 |
| sappheiros | 18.10, not 19.04, something seems wrong with my brain | 18:06 |
| * sappheiros reads https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/ | 18:07 | |
| wxl | you're wasting time using 32 bit no matter how you look at it | 18:07 |
| sappheiros | wxl: i cannot afford a new computer | 18:07 |
| wxl | but we will not be releasing any images/isos of lubuntu any more | 18:07 |
| sappheiros | i'm having a second problem now where opening a new tab instead erases the current terminal tab, closing weechat and returning me to the prompt | 18:08 |
| wxl | there are still 32 bit packages in the archives, so if you keep upgrading, you'll be ok...... until they're removed. that talk has been going on for a while, but it's coming soon for sure. | 18:08 |
| wxl | well you should upgrade to a supported release (19.04) and then come back if you have problems | 18:08 |
| sappheiros | from your perspective, it doesn't matter whether i askd for help with 18.10 or 18.04? | 18:09 |
| wxl | 18.04 is supported. 18.10 isn't. | 18:09 |
| sappheiros | or i shouldn't ask for help at all until i upgrade to 19.04? | 18:09 |
| sappheiros | okay. | 18:09 |
| sappheiros | thank you for clarifying. | 18:09 |
| wxl | BUT lxde is only as supported as it can be | 18:09 |
| sappheiros | augh lol | 18:09 |
| wxl | for example, i know of a problem with the file manager crashing that requires upstream support and there is none | 18:09 |
| sappheiros | sounds like lxqt 18.10 is no longer supported, 18.04 lxde is supported but you'd rather not | 18:10 |
| wxl | i issued a bug report about it and haven't even received a response. | 18:10 |
| sappheiros | ah | 18:10 |
| sappheiros | gotcha | 18:10 |
| sappheiros | upstream means debian people? | 18:10 |
| wxl | the way to look at 18.04 is it's basically stuck the way it is, bugs and all | 18:10 |
| wxl | upstream means the developers of lxde | 18:10 |
| sappheiros | oh. | 18:10 |
| wxl | which are a really, really, really small group | 18:10 |
| sappheiros | what should i do with my 32-bit computers once i can afford a 64-bit Raspberry pi? | 18:11 |
| sappheiros | should i keep for win xp and win 7 OS? | 18:11 |
| sappheiros | or can those be run on wine? | 18:11 |
| wxl | well don't get confused.. a 64-bit pi can't take a "64-bit" ubuntu image | 18:12 |
| sappheiros | waaaaaaaat | 18:12 |
| wxl | 64-bit in our case means intel/amd, not arm | 18:12 |
| sappheiros | thank you for telling me ;_; | 18:12 |
| wxl | we do have a lubuntu pi image but it's way behind. | 18:13 |
| wxl | and we don't fully support it exactly as it's created through a project by the developer of mate | 18:13 |
| wxl | i would also not use xp as it's a security problem | 18:13 |
| wxl | and windows 7+ are resource hogs, so that's probably not great for you | 18:14 |
| wxl | i'd say save up, really | 18:14 |
| sappheiros | well, there are a few software that require xp, or win 7 respectively -- i would not use web browsers with them | 18:14 |
| diogenes_ | sappheiros, antiX OS < check out. | 18:14 |
| lynorian | wxl I think you mean vista+ | 18:14 |
| wxl | i wouldn't even hook xp to the internet, period | 18:14 |
| wxl | lynorian: true, but i don't think vista is supported anymore is it? i guess windows users don't ever seem to care XD | 18:15 |
| sappheiros | thanks for the advice ... ... so how does someone get a cheap linux laptop for their child? i thought $35 raspberry pi + lubuntu was the way to go | 18:15 |
| wxl | it's cheap, but it requires a specialized os. | 18:15 |
| wxl | you can't just put anything on it. | 18:16 |
| wxl | i'd say to check in with your local electronics recycler. i know the one by me you could even earn a laptop (and not a half bad one) just by donating some of your time | 18:16 |
| wxl | and you get to learn valuable skills along the way | 18:16 |
| sappheiros | 'k thanks ... ... ... i was hoping to get my sister to get her son a cheap linux laptop to play GCompris suite on and get into coding | 18:22 |
| sappheiros | but seems cheap $100 laptops on amazon.com get you stuck with a 32-bit dell d620 that everyone hates ... ... and basically i have no idea how to get a cheap laptop for that purpose -- maybe there are no cheap laptops, only expensive ones that broke in a minor way given to repair shops, if that's what you implied | 18:22 |
| wxl | or they're donated | 18:23 |
| sappheiros | mm. as for me, i wanted a cheap laptop i could take in public and not worry if it gets stolen | 18:23 |
| wxl | at our recycler, they often get donations from corporate entities | 18:23 |
| sappheiros | oh wow | 18:23 |
| wxl | my work has even repurposed such machines | 18:24 |
| sappheiros | seems only big cities have those? | 18:24 |
| wxl | i think it's only the cities where people are interested in running such a program XD | 18:24 |
| sappheiros | most i know hate "agenda 21, new world order trying to make everyone live in big cities", but it seems better as far as i can tell ... | 18:24 |
| sappheiros | oh | 18:24 |
| sappheiros | it's still actually not clear to me whether i should downgrade to 18.04. do you have an opinion on which (18.04 or 18.10) works _better_ for 32-bit? i think you recommended 18.10 because it was lxqt and you felt lxqt worked better than lxde | 18:44 |
| sappheiros | and i think i remember it running faster indeed | 18:45 |
| sappheiros | i think 18.10 also has the menu bar -search-to-find-app feature and that 18.04 lacked this option | 18:45 |
| sappheiros | isn't that correct? then, i should stay with 18.10 even though it's no longer supported, i think | 18:45 |
| sappheiros | but does it follow that i should stop asking here and #ubuntu for assistance? | 18:46 |
| wxl | sappheiros: nope, upgrade to 19.04 and you're good | 19:16 |
| sappheiros | lol that seems deliberately vague | 19:17 |
| wxl | upgrade to 19.04 and we'll keep supporting you here | 19:17 |
| wxl | it will provide you a better experience overall | 19:17 |
| sappheiros | i understand that, but my question is which OS would be better for me to use until i can upgrade | 19:17 |
| sappheiros | unless you mean 32-bit is okay for 19.04 | 19:17 |
| sappheiros | is it possible to install 19.04 on 32-bit? | 19:18 |
| wxl | stay with what you have. don't downgrade. that's just a waste of time | 19:18 |
| wxl | yes and no. there's no image for 19.04 but you can upgrade your 18.10. | 19:18 |
| sappheiros | i often do muon package manager's full upgrade | 19:18 |
| sappheiros | is that what you mean? | 19:18 |
| wxl | that's an upgrade of packages, not an upgrade of versions | 19:18 |
| wxl | https://manual.lubuntu.me/D/upgrading.html | 19:19 |
| sappheiros | thanks. i'll backup my files and try the upgrade, perhaps next month. | 19:24 |
| === lubuntu is now known as Guest40619 | ||
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