[00:00] <wxl> i mean gtk has a future (not a particular bright one if you ask me, but whatever) but lxde really doesn't
 any reference for your point of view?
[00:02] <wxl> yeah, they don't fix their bugs, development is almost halted to a stand still, and they're not gtk3 compliant
 i still use lxde for 18.04 for reliability esp on old box
 oh noted, afaik the gtk3 is a toolkit for developing the  lxde ... then lxde still use old gtk … cmiiw
[00:05] <wxl> gtk3 is the latest version of the toolkit that lxde is built on, but lxde doesn't use it
 what's the main reason?
[00:07] <wxl> well A. it's hard, especially when you want to make it low-resource usage and B. their main developer left. see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK#Criticism
 looks like an one man show
[00:10] <wxl> also fyi GTK4 is on the horizon
[00:10] <wxl> so they're way behind the times
 Hong Jen Yee, developer of LXDE (the GTK version of which will be dropped and all efforts focused on the Qt port[30]), expressed disdain for version 3 of the GTK toolkit's radical API changes and increased memory usage, and ported PCMan File Manager (PCManFM) to Qt. PCManFM is being developed with a GTK and with a Qt backend at the
 @ShiBonCip [Hong Jen Yee, developer of LXDE (the GTK version of which will be dropped and al …], that's why i got two kind of pcmanfm
 on 16.04 box
[00:14] <wxl> 64% complete on GTK4 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/milestones/1
[00:18] <wxl> they just released 3.96.0 earlier this month, so they're running out of numbers quickly XD
 @ShiBonCip [on 16.04 box], looks like here i have gtk3 installed … <pre> … ii  libgtk-3-0:amd64                              3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3                                         amd64        GTK+ graphical user interface library            ii  libgtk-3-bin                                  3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3
 ```ii  libgtk-3-0:amd64                              3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3                                         amd64        GTK+ graphical user interface library            ii  libgtk-3-bin                                  3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3                                         amd64        programs for the GTK+ graphical user int
 @wxl [<wxl> they just released 3.96.0 earlier this month, so they're running out of nu …], that's means they are still developing
[00:20] <lynorian> well they could do .991
[00:21] <wxl> heh yep
[00:23] <wxl> also the gtk developers are insane. proof: https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/
[00:24] <wxl> tl;dr "GTK 4" doesn't land until about 18 months after the release of 4.0, as 4.6
 ahhh ic ... that's why pidgin is overthrown from the irc client because of this GTK things
[00:30] <wxl> LXQt uses Qt. so we've worked hard at trying to use Qt apps.
[00:30] <wxl> theming is way easier that way too
 @wxl [<wxl> LXQt uses Qt. so we've worked hard at trying to use Qt apps.], make sense
 btw /dev/sdb1       1.6G  1.6G     0 100% /media/chika.tambun/Lubuntu 19.04 amd64 ... the disk complain abt read only ... is it normal?
 afaik the disk capacity is over 10Gb
[00:33] <wxl> depends on how you mounted it but you won't be writing to it very easily if it's 100% full XD
[00:33] <wxl> sdb represents the DISK, but sdb1 represents a PARTITION of that disk
 strange partition after usb-disk-creator
 it's just 32GB usb flashdisk
 wonder is it still bootable
 @ShiBonCip [strange partition after usb-disk-creator], is it normal?
 @ShiBonCip [strange partition after usb-disk-creator], last time for installation from usb disk ... what's the tool for creating the installer wxl?
[06:23] <JohnDoe_71Rus> hi. i have nettop acer ao725 with lubuntu 18.04. On boot the touchpad is disabled and i need press Fn+F7 to enable it. how to enable touchpad at boot ?
[16:49] <wxl> d/back
[16:49] <wxl> oops
 fail, wxl.  :P
[16:50] <wxl> @ShiBonCip i use `dd` :)
[17:35] <sappheiros> when i press f11 terminal enters fullscreen but when i click view the rectangle is not filled blue
[17:35] <sappheiros> it is only filled blue if i click fullscreen from the menu item there.
[17:35] <sappheiros> is this a bug or a feature?
[17:45] <wxl> version?
[17:50] <sappheiros> wxl: QTerminal 0.9.0
[17:50] <wxl> so lubuntu 19.04 then
[17:50] <sappheiros> 19.10 i think
[17:50] <wxl> you're using the unreleased development version?
[17:51]  * sappheiros checks how to check ubuntu version
[17:51] <sappheiros> ohhhhhh
[17:51] <wxl> lsb_release -a
[17:51] <sappheiros> 18.10 i guess i meant ... lol since it's not october yet ... i'll try that command now, thanks, sorry
[17:51] <wxl> 18.10 is EoL. you need to upgrade to 19.04
[17:52] <sappheiros> oops. i think i hit ctrl+shift+t and instead of opening a new tab it closed weechat returning to prompt ... yes, 18.10 cosmic.
[17:53] <sappheiros> i tried full upgrade clicking in muon package manager -- why can't i upgrade to 19.04 through the muon package manager "full upgrade" button?
[17:53] <sappheiros> thank you for alerting me to this new release
[17:58] <sappheiros> you prefer we use LXQt rather than 18.04 LTS's LXDE, right?
[17:58] <sappheiros> i mean, would it help you develop it if we did?
[17:59] <sappheiros> (i have 32-bit computer)
[18:01] <wxl> sappheiros: muon's for updating packages, not updating versions of the whole os.
[18:01] <wxl> and yes, you should use lxqt. lxde is dead in the water any way you cut it.
[18:02] <sappheiros> are the developers happy about this? or does it feel like "all that work has been made obsolete"?
[18:02] <wxl> !32-bit | sappheiros
[18:02] <wxl> ugh
[18:02] <wxl> !32
[18:02] <wxl> !32bit
[18:02] <wxl> that
[18:02] <sappheiros> oh, darn.
[18:03] <sappheiros> last i read, i think from the lubuntu.me site, "32-bit users are needed, and development may cease if there aren't enough giving feedback"
[18:03] <wxl> i'm going to have a party when 18.04 support ends
[18:03] <sappheiros> lol
[18:03] <wxl> i am so happy to wash my hands of lxde
[18:03] <sappheiros> so then the decision was made after all, huh? ...
[18:03] <sappheiros> oh really?
[18:03] <wxl> uh yeah, it's on the blog
[18:03] <wxl> https://lubuntu.me/sunsetting-i386/
[18:03] <sappheiros> thanks
[18:04] <sappheiros> so should i _downgrade_ from 18.10 to 18.04 so that when i have problems, asking for help will at least be officially-sanctioned?
[18:04] <sappheiros> to put it another way, is there a higher risk of wasting time asking for 18.10 help as a 32-bit user?
[18:05] <sappheiros> > Lubuntu 19.04 and future versions will not see a release for the i386 architecture
[18:06] <sappheiros> but ... i'm using it now ...?
[18:06] <sappheiros> aoeutnaoehu
[18:06] <sappheiros> sorry
[18:06] <sappheiros> 18.10, not 19.04, something seems wrong with my brain
[18:07]  * sappheiros reads https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/
[18:07] <wxl> you're wasting time using 32 bit no matter how you look at it
[18:07] <sappheiros> wxl: i cannot afford a new computer
[18:07] <wxl> but we will not be releasing any images/isos of lubuntu any more
[18:08] <sappheiros> i'm having a second problem now where opening a new tab instead erases the current terminal tab, closing weechat and returning me to the prompt
[18:08] <wxl> there are still 32 bit packages in the archives, so if you keep upgrading, you'll be ok...... until they're removed. that talk has been going on for a while, but it's coming soon for sure.
[18:08] <wxl> well you should upgrade to a supported release (19.04) and then come back if you have problems
[18:09] <sappheiros> from your perspective, it doesn't matter whether i askd for help with 18.10 or 18.04?
[18:09] <wxl> 18.04 is supported. 18.10 isn't.
[18:09] <sappheiros> or i shouldn't ask for help at all until i upgrade to 19.04?
[18:09] <sappheiros> okay.
[18:09] <sappheiros> thank you for clarifying.
[18:09] <wxl> BUT lxde is only as supported as it can be
[18:09] <sappheiros> augh lol
[18:09] <wxl> for example, i know of a problem with the file manager crashing that requires upstream support and there is none
[18:10] <sappheiros> sounds like lxqt 18.10 is no longer supported, 18.04 lxde is supported but you'd rather not
[18:10] <wxl> i issued a bug report about it and haven't even received a response.
[18:10] <sappheiros> ah
[18:10] <sappheiros> gotcha
[18:10] <sappheiros> upstream means debian people?
[18:10] <wxl> the way to look at 18.04 is it's basically stuck the way it is, bugs and all
[18:10] <wxl> upstream means the developers of lxde
[18:10] <sappheiros> oh.
[18:10] <wxl> which are a really, really, really small group
[18:11] <sappheiros> what should i do with my 32-bit computers once i can afford a 64-bit Raspberry pi?
[18:11] <sappheiros> should i keep for win xp and win 7 OS?
[18:11] <sappheiros> or can those be run on wine?
[18:12] <wxl> well don't get confused.. a 64-bit pi can't take a "64-bit" ubuntu image
[18:12] <sappheiros> waaaaaaaat
[18:12] <wxl> 64-bit in our case means intel/amd, not arm
[18:12] <sappheiros> thank you for telling me ;_;
[18:13] <wxl> we do have a lubuntu pi image but it's way behind.
[18:13] <wxl> and we don't fully support it exactly as it's created through a project by the developer of mate
[18:13] <wxl> i would also not use xp as it's a security problem
[18:14] <wxl> and windows 7+ are resource hogs, so that's probably not great for you
[18:14] <wxl> i'd say save up, really
[18:14] <sappheiros> well, there are a few software that require xp, or win 7 respectively -- i would not use web browsers with them
[18:14] <diogenes_> sappheiros, antiX OS < check out.
[18:14] <lynorian> wxl I think you mean vista+
[18:14] <wxl> i wouldn't even hook xp to the internet, period
[18:15] <wxl> lynorian: true, but i don't think vista is supported anymore is it? i guess windows users don't ever seem to care XD
[18:15] <sappheiros> thanks for the advice ... ... so how does someone get a cheap linux laptop for their child? i thought $35 raspberry pi + lubuntu was the way to go
[18:15] <wxl> it's cheap, but it requires a specialized os.
[18:16] <wxl> you can't just put anything on it.
[18:16] <wxl> i'd say to check in with your local electronics recycler. i know the one by me you could even earn a laptop (and not a half bad one) just by donating some of your time
[18:16] <wxl> and you get to learn valuable skills along the way
[18:22] <sappheiros> 'k thanks ... ... ... i was hoping to get my sister to get her son a cheap linux laptop to play GCompris suite on and get into coding
[18:22] <sappheiros> but seems cheap $100 laptops on amazon.com get you stuck with a 32-bit dell d620 that everyone hates ... ... and basically i have no idea how to get a cheap laptop for that purpose -- maybe there are no cheap laptops, only expensive ones that broke in a minor way given to repair shops, if that's what you implied
[18:23] <wxl> or they're donated
[18:23] <sappheiros> mm. as for me, i wanted a cheap laptop i could take in public and not worry if it gets stolen
[18:23] <wxl> at our recycler, they often get donations from corporate entities
[18:23] <sappheiros> oh wow
[18:24] <wxl> my work has even repurposed such machines
[18:24] <sappheiros> seems only big cities have those?
[18:24] <wxl> i think it's only the cities where people are interested in running such a program XD
[18:24] <sappheiros> most i know hate "agenda 21, new world order trying to make everyone live in big cities", but it seems better as far as i can tell ...
[18:24] <sappheiros> oh
[18:44] <sappheiros> it's still actually not clear to me whether i should downgrade to 18.04. do you have an opinion on which (18.04 or 18.10) works _better_ for 32-bit? i think you recommended 18.10 because it was lxqt and you felt lxqt worked better than lxde
[18:45] <sappheiros> and i think i remember it running faster indeed
[18:45] <sappheiros> i think 18.10 also has the menu bar -search-to-find-app feature and that 18.04 lacked this option
[18:45] <sappheiros> isn't that correct? then, i should stay with 18.10 even though it's no longer supported, i think
[18:46] <sappheiros> but does it follow that i should stop asking here and #ubuntu for assistance?
[19:16] <wxl> sappheiros: nope, upgrade to 19.04 and you're good
[19:17] <sappheiros> lol that seems deliberately vague
[19:17] <wxl> upgrade to 19.04 and we'll keep supporting you here
[19:17] <wxl> it will provide you a better experience overall
[19:17] <sappheiros> i understand that, but my question is which OS would be better for me to use until i can upgrade
[19:17] <sappheiros> unless you mean 32-bit is okay for 19.04
[19:18] <sappheiros> is it possible to install 19.04 on 32-bit?
[19:18] <wxl> stay with what you have. don't downgrade. that's just a waste of time
[19:18] <wxl> yes and no. there's no image for 19.04 but you can upgrade your 18.10.
[19:18] <sappheiros> i often do muon package manager's full upgrade
[19:18] <sappheiros> is that what you mean?
[19:18] <wxl> that's an upgrade of packages, not an upgrade of versions
[19:19] <wxl> https://manual.lubuntu.me/D/upgrading.html
[19:24] <sappheiros> thanks. i'll backup my files and try the upgrade, perhaps next month.