/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/05/30/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

dufluRAOF, are you in WA or were just working late?02:04
RAOFduflu: I was just on my phone.02:04
dufluOoh, right. IRC/matrix/whatever02:05
didrocksgood morning05:35
oSoMoNgood morning desktoppers06:10
dufluMorning didrocks and oSoMoN06:13
oSoMoNhey duflu, salut didrocks06:15
didrockshow goes duflu, oSoMoN?06:22
dufluGoing well, didrocks. You?06:22
oSoMoNdoing fine, it's gonna be another beautiful and warm spring day, and hopefully productive, too06:27
dufluSaturday will be the first day of winter, and 26 degrees :)06:28
didrocksduflu: I'm good, thanks ;) (Sorry, was busy trello-github-carding)06:49
=== pstolowski|afk is now known as pstolowski
marcustomlinsonmorning all06:59
marcustomlinsonor just didrocks oSoMoN and duflu :)06:59
dufluHi marcustomlinson07:04
didrockshey marcustomlinson, we are "all" ;)07:05
marcustomlinsondidrocks: ah, there's a public holiday somewhere today hey?07:06
didrocksmarcustomlinson: yes, France & Germany at least07:06
marcustomlinsondidrocks: oh yes, and you opted for tomorrow instead. Nice one07:07
didrocksyep ;)07:07
seb128good morning desktopers07:17
dufluMorning seb12807:17
seb128hey duflu07:18
marcustomlinsonhey seb12807:18
seb128hey marcustomlinson07:18
marcustomlinsonyou're allowed to take a break hey ;p07:18
seb128yeah, I'm going to swap it for tomorrow07:25
seb128I didn't finish things I wanted to get done yesterday07:25
seb128so better to not cut context and have a long w.e07:25
Laneymorning!08:01
didrocksgood morning Laney08:02
dufluMorning Laney08:02
Laneymoin didrocks duflu08:02
seb128hey Laney, how are you?08:10
Laneyyo seb12808:11
Laneysorry, got distracted *cough*08:15
Laneyi'm good, we saw a nice band at the folk club last night, so i'm happy about that08:15
Laneyyou?08:15
seb128I'm good!08:30
seb128we were supposed to go out for dinner but the baby sitter was stucked at another place where the parents had to come back some hours later for some reasons08:31
seb128so we ended up to not do that and I went to tennis instead, which was nice :)08:31
seb128brb, changing location08:34
seb128k, back!08:49
Wimpresso/08:50
duflu     \o08:51
oSoMoN   \o/08:51
seb128:-)08:52
didrocksgood morning Wimpress08:52
seb128Laney, Trevinho, duflu, do you have any idea about how https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/issues/248 could be done technically?09:20
gitbotGNOME issue 248 in gjs "gnome-shell JS errors don't trigger report tools" [1. Enhancement, 2. Needs Information, Closed]09:20
dufluseb128, I think you need to dump core. So abort() etc09:21
dufluOr if we are after just a JS stack then maybe exit(1) ??09:22
seb128duflu, see the comments, upstream rejected that idea because it would bypass proper JS engine shutdown09:22
dufluseb128, yes I know. It's meant to bypass shutdown :S09:22
dufluSounds like the job for a distro patch09:22
seb128well, the way we do it for python we get the backtrace without having to bail out/exit09:23
seb128I don't know how it's done and if the same thing would be possible in JS though09:23
Laneythere's some kind of way to hook into the exception handler09:23
Laneyfor python09:23
seb128do you know if a similar mechanism exists for js?09:23
Laneynope, but that is presumably something that "could" be done by gjs09:24
dufluThat sounds desirable. gnome-shell logs stack traces all the time without exiting09:24
Laneynope I don't know (sorry)09:24
seb128no worry, I asked in case :)09:24
xnoxoSoMoN:  jamesh: do you know how snap dependencies work, and if this is the right thing to do https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/+merge/368102  ? cause like desktop isos should be offline snap seedable. or something like that.09:24
Laney(not nope there isn't)09:24
dufluI don't yet buy Phillip's reasoning though. We are only talking about replacing exit() with abort(). If you see leaks in either case you should ignore them09:25
dufluOr Philip's09:25
seb128duflu, ah good point, feel free to comment about that on the gitlab issue09:25
dufluI mean in the latter case at least09:25
dufluValgrind can only detect leaks properly using exit()09:26
jameshxnox: as I understand it, snapd's seeding process is offline: it expects the set of seeded snaps to fulfil all dependencies09:26
dufluAnd to worry about leaking on exceptions only matters for caught exceptions. Uncaught exceptions don't leak because the whole process is gone09:26
xnoxjamesh:  yeah, but i don't know how to check which deps are needed. i guess i should download an iso and check?09:27
LaneyI wouldn't get into that kind of discussion in #ubuntu-desktop09:27
Laneyand actually personally I wouldn't push back on ptomato either unless there's someone who is actually going to work on it09:28
jameshxnox: I guess you'd need to download all the snaps in the seed, and check that (a) anything referenced as a base snap is included, and (b) anything referenced by a content interface plug is included09:28
Laneyit's not likely to result in the problem being addressed09:28
dufluSounds simple enough. But I'm not starting on another tangent for now09:28
seb128k, well let's keep it this way for now then09:28
seb128we might get back to it if someone finds cycles/interest to poke at the problem09:29
seb128duflu, Laney, thx for the input09:29
Laneythe core dump you'd get from abort() might not even be very useful btw09:29
Laneyi.e. you might actually want to do something from the js side09:30
dufluLaney, yeah it's not to use the core dump, but to actually get a problem report09:32
dufluIf there's another way to that then great09:32
dufluDifferent topic (almost) - I wonder if we could get problem reports for ALL JavaScript stack traces that don't terminate gnome-shell09:32
dufluThat might be very useful for statistical analysis09:33
Laneysomething like what we have with https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.excepthook09:34
seb128I don't think we want to pop an apport dialog every time we have one of those, at least not today09:34
Laneythat's what apport uses for python09:34
dufluFair point. We may drown out crashes and not prioritise them09:34
Laneyand it's what Philip was hinting towards with "Is there some API that could be used to trigger the reporting tool that doesn't shut down the program without cleanup?"09:34
oSoMoNxnox, what james_h said, base snaps and content interfaces, not sure if snapd exposes this information somehow, without requesting an actual install09:34
LaneyI'll comment with a link to the Python thing09:35
duflu+109:35
seb128Laney, thx09:35
xnoxjamesh:  oSoMoN: so i used the snap download tool from livecd-rootfs, and mounted the snap by hand, and I see inside the snap, meta/snap.yaml has things like:09:37
xnox  gnome-3-28-1804:09:37
xnox    default-provider: gnome-3-28-180409:37
xnox    interface: content09:37
xnox    target: $SNAP/gnome-platform09:37
xnoxso i guess i will check all of these manually09:37
jameshxnox: the default-provider: line is the important part, yeah.  also base: at the top level (but that should only reference "core" or "core18")09:38
oSoMoNxnox, right, unfortunately it’s still very much a manual process, it'd be nice if snapd offered a way to query for "dependencies"09:39
xnoxyeah09:39
xnoxbut it's interesting how i can use the plug mechanism to probably provide prebuilt initrds for the kernel snaps09:40
xnoxhmmmmmm09:40
xnoxkenvandine:  jamesh: oSoMoN: it looks like gtk-common-themes is the only snap that doesn't declare "base: core18"09:49
xnoxif it did, we would be able to build images with just: snapd core1809:49
xnoxbut because of gtk-common-themes it looks like we will end up with: core core1809:50
xnoxas the required bases.09:50
jameshxnox: it could probably be switched to "base: bare".  While that is one extra base snap, it is 4K09:51
xnoxoooooh09:52
xnoxi like "base: bare"09:52
jameshI guess it would also depend on whether snapd is ready to run on classic systems without "core"09:52
xnoxnever heard of it.09:52
xnoxi believe it is.09:52
xnoxjamesh:  i guess we should experiment with like stable/ubuntu-19.10 channel first (i.e. switch gtk-common-themes to base:bare and check if we can drop dual-core)09:53
jameshor just test on edge.09:54
xnoxeoan dailies are built with stable/ubuntu-19.10 but i think we can request livefs build with an alternative channel.09:55
xnox(to do a one off edge build)09:55
oSoMoNGunnarHj, I sponsored {,ibus-}libpinyin for bionic and they're in the unapproved queue, gonna handle cosmic now10:18
oSoMoNand sponsored to cosmic too10:32
kenvandinexnox, jamesh: that is intentional.  We need something to ensure core gets installed.  At least at the time 19.04 shipped we still needed that.12:01
seb128hey kenvandine, how are you?12:06
kenvandineHey seb12812:09
kenvandineI'll check with mvo to see if we can drop that yet12:10
xnoxkenvandine:  snap-tool seeds core/core18 as needed in livecd-rootfs..... ditto snapd. can you explain why it is intentional to pull in core?12:38
kenvandineThe snapd snap wasn't quite ready to work without core installed12:39
kenvandineThey thought it was, but there was a bug12:39
kenvandineMight be fixed now12:39
kenvandineWhen we switched all the snaps to core18 it broke the images12:40
kenvandineSo we switched the themes to core just as a work around to get 19.04 out the door12:41
kenvandineThe themes snap doesn't actually need any base12:41
kenvandineSo that was a workaround12:41
xnoxah12:53
xnoxthanks!12:53
GunnarHjThanks oSoMoN!13:28
xnoxseb128:  i'm sorry, can't reply to your email i'm stuck in a loop-one singing and dancing spice girls songs, because your email had trigger words13:55
seb128xnox, no worry, it's almost friday then you will be able to get some rest and recover!13:55
xnoxseb128:  seriously my facebook is impossible. their spice world tour is on now, and i'm just flooded with girl power14:00
seb128click on the "X" button in the corner and be happy!14:02
LaneyJUJUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU14:42
LaneyERROR profile "default": juju does not support IPv6. Disable IPv6 in LXD via:14:43
Laneylxc network set lxdbr0 ipv6.address none14:43
Laney/o\14:43
seb128:-(14:49
seb128k, so in case that's interesting to someone, I hacked a sort of bionic/desktop version report mostly for GNOME components14:49
seb128it's not a proper service and there are weird things like Debian version forced to 0, but it can help to see where we potentially have GNOME components that have a stable update that could be SRUed14:50
seb128so mentioning it in case it's useful to others, https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/bionic/versions.html14:50
seb128or https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/bionic/desktop.html for our set14:50
Trevinhomorning!15:54
oSoMoNgood morning Trevinho15:54
TrevinhooSoMoN: hey15:59
=== pstolowski is now known as pstolowski|afk
Laneymoin and bye Trevinho17:09
Laneyseb128: sorry forgot to say earlier, nice one17:09
* Laney has been trying to understand the crowd17:09
Laney<insert that "i have no idea what i'm doing" meme?17:10
Laney>17:10
Laneybyeeee17:10
seb128Laney, :-)18:21
seb128k, calling it a day18:21
seb128which means a week since I'm off tomorrow, have a nice evening/w.e desktopers! see you on monday18:22
sarnoldbye seb128, enjoy :)18:27
oSoMoNenjoy the long week-end seb12819:35
oSoMoNgood night all19:35

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