[02:04] <duflu> RAOF, are you in WA or were just working late?
[02:04] <RAOF> duflu: I was just on my phone.
[02:05] <duflu> Ooh, right. IRC/matrix/whatever
[05:35] <didrocks> good morning
[06:10] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:13] <duflu> Morning didrocks and oSoMoN
[06:15] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, salut didrocks
[06:22] <didrocks> how goes duflu, oSoMoN?
[06:22] <duflu> Going well, didrocks. You?
[06:27] <oSoMoN> doing fine, it's gonna be another beautiful and warm spring day, and hopefully productive, too
[06:28] <duflu> Saturday will be the first day of winter, and 26 degrees :)
[06:49] <didrocks> duflu: I'm good, thanks ;) (Sorry, was busy trello-github-carding)
[06:59] <marcustomlinson> morning all
[06:59] <marcustomlinson> or just didrocks oSoMoN and duflu :)
[07:04] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
[07:05] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, we are "all" ;)
[07:06] <marcustomlinson> didrocks: ah, there's a public holiday somewhere today hey?
[07:06] <didrocks> marcustomlinson: yes, France & Germany at least
[07:07] <marcustomlinson> didrocks: oh yes, and you opted for tomorrow instead. Nice one
[07:07] <didrocks> yep ;)
[07:17] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:17] <duflu> Morning seb128
[07:18] <seb128> hey duflu
[07:18] <marcustomlinson> hey seb128
[07:18] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson
[07:18] <marcustomlinson> you're allowed to take a break hey ;p
[07:25] <seb128> yeah, I'm going to swap it for tomorrow
[07:25] <seb128> I didn't finish things I wanted to get done yesterday
[07:25] <seb128> so better to not cut context and have a long w.e
[08:01] <Laney> morning!
[08:02] <didrocks> good morning Laney
[08:02] <duflu> Morning Laney
[08:02] <Laney> moin didrocks duflu
[08:10] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[08:11] <Laney> yo seb128
[08:15] <Laney> sorry, got distracted *cough*
[08:15] <Laney> i'm good, we saw a nice band at the folk club last night, so i'm happy about that
[08:15] <Laney> you?
[08:30] <seb128> I'm good!
[08:31] <seb128> we were supposed to go out for dinner but the baby sitter was stucked at another place where the parents had to come back some hours later for some reasons
[08:31] <seb128> so we ended up to not do that and I went to tennis instead, which was nice :)
[08:34] <seb128> brb, changing location
[08:49] <seb128> k, back!
[08:50] <Wimpress> o/
[08:51] <duflu>      \o
[08:51] <oSoMoN>    \o/
[08:52] <seb128> :-)
[08:52] <didrocks> good morning Wimpress
[09:20] <seb128> Laney, Trevinho, duflu, do you have any idea about how https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/issues/248 could be done technically?
[09:20] <gitbot> GNOME issue 248 in gjs "gnome-shell JS errors don't trigger report tools" [1. Enhancement, 2. Needs Information, Closed]
[09:21] <duflu> seb128, I think you need to dump core. So abort() etc
[09:22] <duflu> Or if we are after just a JS stack then maybe exit(1) ??
[09:22] <seb128> duflu, see the comments, upstream rejected that idea because it would bypass proper JS engine shutdown
[09:22] <duflu> seb128, yes I know. It's meant to bypass shutdown :S
[09:22] <duflu> Sounds like the job for a distro patch
[09:23] <seb128> well, the way we do it for python we get the backtrace without having to bail out/exit
[09:23] <seb128> I don't know how it's done and if the same thing would be possible in JS though
[09:23] <Laney> there's some kind of way to hook into the exception handler
[09:23] <Laney> for python
[09:23] <seb128> do you know if a similar mechanism exists for js?
[09:24] <Laney> nope, but that is presumably something that "could" be done by gjs
[09:24] <duflu> That sounds desirable. gnome-shell logs stack traces all the time without exiting
[09:24] <Laney> nope I don't know (sorry)
[09:24] <seb128> no worry, I asked in case :)
[09:24] <xnox> oSoMoN:  jamesh: do you know how snap dependencies work, and if this is the right thing to do https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/+merge/368102  ? cause like desktop isos should be offline snap seedable. or something like that.
[09:24] <Laney> (not nope there isn't)
[09:25] <duflu> I don't yet buy Phillip's reasoning though. We are only talking about replacing exit() with abort(). If you see leaks in either case you should ignore them
[09:25] <duflu> Or Philip's
[09:25] <seb128> duflu, ah good point, feel free to comment about that on the gitlab issue
[09:25] <duflu> I mean in the latter case at least
[09:26] <duflu> Valgrind can only detect leaks properly using exit()
[09:26] <jamesh> xnox: as I understand it, snapd's seeding process is offline: it expects the set of seeded snaps to fulfil all dependencies
[09:26] <duflu> And to worry about leaking on exceptions only matters for caught exceptions. Uncaught exceptions don't leak because the whole process is gone
[09:27] <xnox> jamesh:  yeah, but i don't know how to check which deps are needed. i guess i should download an iso and check?
[09:27] <Laney> I wouldn't get into that kind of discussion in #ubuntu-desktop
[09:28] <Laney> and actually personally I wouldn't push back on ptomato either unless there's someone who is actually going to work on it
[09:28] <jamesh> xnox: I guess you'd need to download all the snaps in the seed, and check that (a) anything referenced as a base snap is included, and (b) anything referenced by a content interface plug is included
[09:28] <Laney> it's not likely to result in the problem being addressed
[09:28] <duflu> Sounds simple enough. But I'm not starting on another tangent for now
[09:28] <seb128> k, well let's keep it this way for now then
[09:29] <seb128> we might get back to it if someone finds cycles/interest to poke at the problem
[09:29] <seb128> duflu, Laney, thx for the input
[09:29] <Laney> the core dump you'd get from abort() might not even be very useful btw
[09:30] <Laney> i.e. you might actually want to do something from the js side
[09:32] <duflu> Laney, yeah it's not to use the core dump, but to actually get a problem report
[09:32] <duflu> If there's another way to that then great
[09:32] <duflu> Different topic (almost) - I wonder if we could get problem reports for ALL JavaScript stack traces that don't terminate gnome-shell
[09:33] <duflu> That might be very useful for statistical analysis
[09:34] <Laney> something like what we have with https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.excepthook
[09:34] <seb128> I don't think we want to pop an apport dialog every time we have one of those, at least not today
[09:34] <Laney> that's what apport uses for python
[09:34] <duflu> Fair point. We may drown out crashes and not prioritise them
[09:34] <Laney> and it's what Philip was hinting towards with "Is there some API that could be used to trigger the reporting tool that doesn't shut down the program without cleanup?"
[09:34] <oSoMoN> xnox, what james_h said, base snaps and content interfaces, not sure if snapd exposes this information somehow, without requesting an actual install
[09:35] <Laney> I'll comment with a link to the Python thing
[09:35] <duflu> +1
[09:35] <seb128> Laney, thx
[09:37] <xnox> jamesh:  oSoMoN: so i used the snap download tool from livecd-rootfs, and mounted the snap by hand, and I see inside the snap, meta/snap.yaml has things like:
[09:37] <xnox>   gnome-3-28-1804:
[09:37] <xnox>     default-provider: gnome-3-28-1804
[09:37] <xnox>     interface: content
[09:37] <xnox>     target: $SNAP/gnome-platform
[09:37] <xnox> so i guess i will check all of these manually
[09:38] <jamesh> xnox: the default-provider: line is the important part, yeah.  also base: at the top level (but that should only reference "core" or "core18")
[09:39] <oSoMoN> xnox, right, unfortunately it’s still very much a manual process, it'd be nice if snapd offered a way to query for "dependencies"
[09:39] <xnox> yeah
[09:40] <xnox> but it's interesting how i can use the plug mechanism to probably provide prebuilt initrds for the kernel snaps
[09:40] <xnox> hmmmmmm
[09:49] <xnox> kenvandine:  jamesh: oSoMoN: it looks like gtk-common-themes is the only snap that doesn't declare "base: core18"
[09:49] <xnox> if it did, we would be able to build images with just: snapd core18
[09:50] <xnox> but because of gtk-common-themes it looks like we will end up with: core core18
[09:50] <xnox> as the required bases.
[09:51] <jamesh> xnox: it could probably be switched to "base: bare".  While that is one extra base snap, it is 4K
[09:52] <xnox> oooooh
[09:52] <xnox> i like "base: bare"
[09:52] <jamesh> I guess it would also depend on whether snapd is ready to run on classic systems without "core"
[09:52] <xnox> never heard of it.
[09:52] <xnox> i believe it is.
[09:53] <xnox> jamesh:  i guess we should experiment with like stable/ubuntu-19.10 channel first (i.e. switch gtk-common-themes to base:bare and check if we can drop dual-core)
[09:54] <jamesh> or just test on edge.
[09:55] <xnox> eoan dailies are built with stable/ubuntu-19.10 but i think we can request livefs build with an alternative channel.
[09:55] <xnox> (to do a one off edge build)
[10:18] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, I sponsored {,ibus-}libpinyin for bionic and they're in the unapproved queue, gonna handle cosmic now
[10:32] <oSoMoN> and sponsored to cosmic too
[12:01] <kenvandine> xnox, jamesh: that is intentional.  We need something to ensure core gets installed.  At least at the time 19.04 shipped we still needed that.
[12:06] <seb128> hey kenvandine, how are you?
[12:09] <kenvandine> Hey seb128
[12:10] <kenvandine> I'll check with mvo to see if we can drop that yet
[12:38] <xnox> kenvandine:  snap-tool seeds core/core18 as needed in livecd-rootfs..... ditto snapd. can you explain why it is intentional to pull in core?
[12:39] <kenvandine> The snapd snap wasn't quite ready to work without core installed
[12:39] <kenvandine> They thought it was, but there was a bug
[12:39] <kenvandine> Might be fixed now
[12:40] <kenvandine> When we switched all the snaps to core18 it broke the images
[12:41] <kenvandine> So we switched the themes to core just as a work around to get 19.04 out the door
[12:41] <kenvandine> The themes snap doesn't actually need any base
[12:41] <kenvandine> So that was a workaround
[12:53] <xnox> ah
[12:53] <xnox> thanks!
[13:28] <GunnarHj> Thanks oSoMoN!
[13:55] <xnox> seb128:  i'm sorry, can't reply to your email i'm stuck in a loop-one singing and dancing spice girls songs, because your email had trigger words
[13:55] <seb128> xnox, no worry, it's almost friday then you will be able to get some rest and recover!
[14:00] <xnox> seb128:  seriously my facebook is impossible. their spice world tour is on now, and i'm just flooded with girl power
[14:02] <seb128> click on the "X" button in the corner and be happy!
[14:42] <Laney> JUJUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
[14:43] <Laney> ERROR profile "default": juju does not support IPv6. Disable IPv6 in LXD via:
[14:43] <Laney> 	lxc network set lxdbr0 ipv6.address none
[14:43] <Laney> /o\
[14:49] <seb128> :-(
[14:49] <seb128> k, so in case that's interesting to someone, I hacked a sort of bionic/desktop version report mostly for GNOME components
[14:50] <seb128> it's not a proper service and there are weird things like Debian version forced to 0, but it can help to see where we potentially have GNOME components that have a stable update that could be SRUed
[14:50] <seb128> so mentioning it in case it's useful to others, https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/bionic/versions.html
[14:50] <seb128> or https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/bionic/desktop.html for our set
[15:54] <Trevinho> morning!
[15:54] <oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
[15:59] <Trevinho> oSoMoN: hey
[17:09] <Laney> moin and bye Trevinho
[17:09] <Laney> seb128: sorry forgot to say earlier, nice one
[17:09]  * Laney has been trying to understand the crowd
[17:10] <Laney> <insert that "i have no idea what i'm doing" meme?
[17:10] <Laney> >
[17:10] <Laney> byeeee
[18:21] <seb128> Laney, :-)
[18:21] <seb128> k, calling it a day
[18:22] <seb128> which means a week since I'm off tomorrow, have a nice evening/w.e desktopers! see you on monday
[18:27] <sarnold> bye seb128, enjoy :)
[19:35] <oSoMoN> enjoy the long week-end seb128
[19:35] <oSoMoN> good night all