[00:01] <Eickmeyer> scotify: One of the things on my to-do list is to create and document some test git repos for people to play around with.
[00:03] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the slide show is now quite outdated.
[00:03] <OvenWerks> (install slideshow
[00:05] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's also on my to-do list. Luckily we can get that done anytime between now and final freeze.
[00:05] <Eickmeyer> I did update the general screenshot.
[00:06] <OvenWerks> The first slide shows the old backdrop, the second to last show usc (I think) and the last one seems to show an older website... well maybe our web site is as old as what is shown :)
[00:06]  * Eickmeyer is syncing his ISO images
[00:06] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Uh... you must have the 18.04 slideshow. We can't update that.
[00:07] <Eickmeyer> The 19.04 slideshow has the new backdrop.
[00:07] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this is the fresh eoin daily
[00:07] <Eickmeyer> cyphermox: ^^ ?
[00:07] <Eickmeyer> I sent cyphermox the file and he updated it.
[00:08] <OvenWerks> I may be wrong about USC, gnome software looks very similar
[00:08] <Eickmeyer> I'll test once I have the ISO.
[00:08] <Eickmeyer> It's probably gnome software. I didn't screenshot USC.
[00:09] <Eickmeyer> Our slideshow is inside ubiquity-slideshow, which isn't a package we have direct upload access to (even if we had packageset, requires a core developer since it's in main).
[00:10] <OvenWerks> Ya I know that part. actually it may only be the very first slide that is out of date
[00:10] <OvenWerks> Our website just hasn't changed for a while.
[00:10] <OvenWerks> we seem to have lost all our graphic artists
[00:11] <Eickmeyer> This is true. The screenshot overview shouldn't be out of date. If it is, then I have questions and I want answers. >:(
[00:11] <Eickmeyer> eylul should be back next month sometime.
[00:11] <OvenWerks> we did change the the back drop late in the game...
[00:12] <Eickmeyer> Doesn't matter. When Eoan opened, it was a direct sync of Disco, a week after release.
[00:12] <OvenWerks> The backdrop is right on the d3esktop, but not in the slide show
[00:12] <OvenWerks> The slide show is the same as 18.04
[00:12] <OvenWerks> ( the first slide of the slideshow)
[00:12] <OvenWerks> it is not disco.
[00:13] <OvenWerks> Not worth fixing at this point for disco, but we should maybe work on a new backdrop ofr the current cycle
[00:14] <Eickmeyer> Uh, I have seen with my very eyes that the one in Disco is correct.
[00:14] <Eickmeyer> It's a screenshot of the backdrop that was used in 18.10.
[00:14] <OvenWerks> if that is correct that is fine
[00:15] <OvenWerks> it is not a screen shot of 19.04 (which it should be)
[00:15] <Eickmeyer> But you don't see that in Eoan?
[00:16] <OvenWerks> I was about to screen shot it but it finished on me :P
[00:16] <Eickmeyer> It should be a screenshot of 19.04 with 18.10's backdrop.
[00:16] <OvenWerks> It is the one with the COF in it, but similar BG to disco
[00:17] <OvenWerks> could be.
[00:17] <OvenWerks> That makes sense
[00:17] <Eickmeyer> Yes, then that's correct. I didn't want it to be the exact Disco Dingo wallpaper since it would be used for future releases (since it's realllllllly hard to update that).
[00:17] <OvenWerks> OK
[00:17] <OvenWerks> Maybe we should use the right screen BG then
[00:18] <Eickmeyer> In my opinion, we shouldn't be updating that slideshow every release.
[00:18] <Eickmeyer> cyphermox: False alarm.
[00:19] <OvenWerks> Then may not have a screen shot of the backdrop because the backdrop will look old very quickly
[00:19] <OvenWerks> *maybe
[00:19] <OvenWerks> The slideshow may be better with more generic material
[00:19] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I was thinking we'd update if it's 1) a drastic change, or 2) an LTS.
[00:19] <OvenWerks> ok
[00:20] <Eickmeyer> The default disco wallpaper isn't that far off, and the wallpaper pictured is included.
[00:20] <Eickmeyer> In fact, it should revert back to that wallpaper in a couple days, once -default-settings gets out of proposed.
[00:21] <OvenWerks> I only mentioned it because my first thought was this looks wrong. I have one backdrop on my screen and a picture of another in the slide show.
[00:21]  * OvenWerks goes off to reboot
[00:21] <Eickmeyer> Oh, I understand. You're the only person that has mentioned it, including every review I've watched, so far.
[00:22] <Eickmeyer> Though, I do understand why.
[00:24] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: maybe most people choose the grub install option to install. I always choose the live option and install from there
[00:25] <OvenWerks> With the install option the installer sits in front of the centre of the screen so maybe it is not so obvious
[00:25] <OvenWerks> besides I'm picky :P
[00:26]  * OvenWerks has to remember his throwaway password for test installs ...
[00:26] <Eickmeyer> The grub install option does, in fact, open up a X11 environment with our default theme and Ubiquity running, so people would see.
[00:27] <Eickmeyer> hehe
[00:27] <OvenWerks> Yes, but it puts the installer right in front of the logo. so the outside of the screen is harder to see... or they just don't think it is significant
[00:28] <OvenWerks> I normally spend some timelooking at some things to see that the live os is ok.
[00:28] <Eickmeyer> They'd be able to see the edges of the dingo.
[00:29] <OvenWerks> yes, I guess many people find the slide show boring and go do other things.. I don't know really.
[00:30] <OvenWerks> focus is wrong (for me) I look for bad/wrong things
[00:30] <Eickmeyer> Meh. I want to update the other pieces of it, too.
[00:30]  * OvenWerks likes focus follows mouse
[00:31] <Eickmeyer> Focus follows mouse isn't default, though, and people aren't used to that.
[00:33] <Eickmeyer> Er, MOST people. Not you, obviously.
[00:35] <Eickmeyer> My bad. Eoan's default wallpaper will change once -look is done syncing.
[00:35] <Eickmeyer> It's in proposed right now.
[00:35] <OvenWerks> OK
[00:39] <OvenWerks> Wimpress: just installed mozo on 19.10 and am gettingthe same error line on the commandlineevery time I do anything: (mozo:22527): CRITICAL **: 17:36:48.872: matemenu_tree_get_root_directory: assertion 'tree->loaded' failed
[00:41] <OvenWerks> Wimpress: also the Menus: column does not match the menu on the system (I would note that 1.12 I was trying last night on 15.04 did show the correct menu as on the system)
[00:41] <OvenWerks> sorry 16.04
[00:47] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: oh my goodness gimp now defaults to single window  :P
[00:48] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Wow! It didn't do that on 19.04!
[00:52] <OvenWerks> I can't sftp into my server from here either. It does not open a user/password dialog it just gets refused.
[00:55] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: what all bits did we take out of the de?
[00:57] <Eickmeyer> The indicator-* stuff (indicator-sound among them). The ISO you downloaded might not be updated with the spin.
[00:57] <OvenWerks> Hmm, I am wondering why thunar doesn't do ftps anymore
[00:57] <Eickmeyer> Ross and I only uploaded that stuff yesterday, so it'll take stuff migrating from proposed.
[00:58] <OvenWerks> so it should be the same and work.
[00:58] <Eickmeyer> bluesabre: Any ideas? ^
[00:58] <OvenWerks> got it.
[00:59] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Might have dropped ftps in favor of sftp? I'm speculating.
[00:59] <OvenWerks> I probably had it backwards.
[00:59] <Eickmeyer> Ah.
[00:59] <Eickmeyer> sftp is ftp over ssh.
[00:59] <Eickmeyer> ftps is ftp with ssl encryption. sftp is stronger.
[01:00] <OvenWerks> I think I tried sfpt by mistake and went in my head, maybe the s is on the end...
[01:01] <Eickmeyer> If you use sftp then you'd log-in with ssh credentials.
[01:01] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: and heres why:
[01:02] <OvenWerks> Wimpress: here is the system menu and mozo side by side http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/mozo-screen.png
[01:02] <OvenWerks> Wimpress: as you can see mozo does not follow the xdg menu as it is in use
[01:04] <OvenWerks> Wimpress: for reference, Studio points xdg root to /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio.
[01:05] <OvenWerks> (xubuntu does similar BTW)
[01:07] <OvenWerks> Wimpress: in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus/ there is xfce-applications.menu which we had to modify because the stock one in /etc/xdg/menus/ is broken (same as gnome 2 and 3, same as lubuntu and last I checked in mate as well
[01:10] <OvenWerks> Wimpress: the problem being that the flow of checking should be: DE installed default, which can be overriden distro which can be overriden by the user. The default menu configuration reads in user and extra menus first and then overrides with the system config... ie backwards.
[01:10] <OvenWerks> kubuntu gets it right BTW
[01:13] <OvenWerks> Studio has A) modified the system menu config to be correct (one line correction) and B) added etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/studio.menu which _should_ override the system file. (in Studio it does)
[01:14] <OvenWerks> The XDG spec does actually say that overrides should go in this order in the document text but the sample menu config file is incorrect.
[01:17] <OvenWerks> This is why Studio has rejected alacart and menulibre
[01:26] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: He's in the UK, so he'll get this when he's awake and/or at work (he works for Canonical).
[01:29] <OvenWerks> not a problem, I may not be around or watching at the time.
[01:32] <OvenWerks> Kmenu doesn't offer anything for us either
[01:38] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the more I look, the more I am sure that menu-add will cause us the least amount of trouble.
[01:41] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It might be worth working with the upstream developers on this for the XDG compliance. bluesabre is the maintainer of Menulibre and leads Xubuntu, so he might be able to help.
[01:41] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: help is not the problem. Getting people to actually follow xdg is something else.
[01:42] <Eickmeyer> That's what I mean.
[01:42] <bluesabre> I'm definitely open to suggestions... a big problem is that the desktops seems to do xdg, with a twist
[01:43] <bluesabre> and the twists add up... in gnome-menu, garcon, etc etc :)
[01:43] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: I am thinking that our (very) simple applet that merely creates new desktop files might be the best route for us to follow.
[01:44] <OvenWerks> It does not require following the snake of files and paths required to aqurately mapout all the menu config files in the system and user paths.
[01:44] <bluesabre> yeah, in most cases that's definitely the way to go
[01:44] <bluesabre> originally, menulibre just created and edited desktop files, and left the menus to sort themselves with just the categories
[01:45] <OvenWerks> basically our menu-add applet is just a wrapper for exo-desktop-item-edit
[01:46] <OvenWerks> It does allow adding some carefully picked catagories that will place it in certain places of our menu.
[01:46] <bluesabre> sounds sensible
[01:47] <OvenWerks> these catagories are reasonable enough the applet will "proabbly" work ok in some other places as well.
[01:48] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: the biggest trouble we have had have been people who have used some menueditor to add a menu item and come for help because "all the menus I had before have gone!"
[01:49] <bluesabre> Yeah, definitely seen those sorts of issues in the past
[01:49] <OvenWerks> in these cases it means having them look in various directories (froma terminal) for some files one of us knows about abd removing them :P
[01:50] <bluesabre> I've thought about adding a reset button to menulibre in the past, which would drop user menu layout changes (leaving lauchers)
[01:50] <bluesabre> the failsafe undo button :)
[01:51] <OvenWerks> unfortunately almost all of the system menu config files in /etc/xdg/menus/*application.menu are incorrect.
[01:52] <OvenWerks> See my explaination above for more, but basically most of them besides kde have the system menu override the user modifications rather than the user modifications overriding the system.
[01:53] <OvenWerks> The fix is a one line fix, but any of the DEs I have put a bug against have been marked invalid/won't fix
[01:54] <bluesabre> Xfce/Xubuntu/Studio included?
[01:54] <OvenWerks> xfce stock, Studio is fixed. (or it wouldn't work :)
[01:54] <bluesabre> being the "menu guy", I think garcon is kind of in my maintainership area these days
[01:54] <OvenWerks> xubuntu may have fixed it.
[01:55] <bluesabre> Link me and I'll see about getting an upstream fix in place
[01:56] <OvenWerks> stock xfce file is bad in 19.10
[01:57] <OvenWerks> it is easy to see. in the /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu file <DefaultMergeDirs/>
[01:57] <OvenWerks> is almost at the top of the file.
[01:59] <OvenWerks> (Line 9) it should be pretty much just before the last </Menu> tag, although KDE puts there logout item below to make sure the user doesn't kill it :)
[02:00] <OvenWerks> The unfortunate part is that while the xdg spec does say that the flow is from system to user and that the user shold be ale to override the system, the sample file they have is also wrong :P
[02:00] <bluesabre> :D
[02:02] <bluesabre> Can you post a diff for the change? I'll submit a bug and assign it to myself... should land it before 4.14pre2 ;)
[02:06] <OvenWerks> I can do that, do you want it for xfce itself? or xubuntu (i would have to look in xubuntu-default-settings (I think) to see if it is right
[02:07] <OvenWerks> There should already be a bug in there, I will see if I can find them and pass them back to you as I am sure I gave a patch with the bug reports
[02:07] <bluesabre> Xfce at least, but both if you want  :) xubuntu-default-settings is correct
[02:07] <bluesabre> Yeah, if you already have bug reports, even better :)
[02:07] <OvenWerks> OK, I will do that when I am back to my "norrmal working partitions"
[02:08] <OvenWerks> Time to reboot.
[02:28] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: the bug goes back a ways :)  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/garcon/+bug/1213518
[02:30] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: I don't seem to have created a bug report for xubuntu.
[02:32] <OvenWerks> bluesabre: looking at: https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu
[02:32] <OvenWerks> this one looks correct.
[02:32] <OvenWerks> so xubuntu has the correct file and xfce does not.
[02:42] <bluesabre> OvenWerks: thanks, will move that along :)
[21:10] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just did some cleaning on the packaging for -menu-add. Looks good. Do we want to get this uploaded to eoan, or did you want to fix those bugs in the ./BUGS file? Either way, it'll need sponsoring, then I'll have to apply for PPU access to it.
[21:17] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the only two left are nice to have features
[21:18] <Eickmeyer> Ok, I'll try to get the ball rolling (we all know how this goes... :/ ).
[21:19] <OvenWerks> We could chonge the name of BUGS to Roadmap or something.
[21:26] <Eickmeyer> That might be preferable. I'm worried that somebody is going to see it and go, "You should fix those bugs first."
[21:26]  * Eickmeyer will make that changed
[21:27] <OvenWerks> you can even remove that file if you want.
[21:28] <Eickmeyer> NOW you tell me! XD
[21:28]  * Eickmeyer had accidentally removed it
[21:28]  * Eickmeyer then reverted it
[21:28] <Eickmeyer> hahahaha
[21:29] <Eickmeyer> I'll leave it as roadmap for now.