[00:11] <OvenWerks> systemd, wayland... lets make things more secure :P
[00:29] <Eickmeyer> Hehehe
[00:53] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Have you ever run into the problem he's describing?
[00:54] <OvenWerks> I haven't run 19.04 enough to find it maybe? I did tgry jack I think...
[00:55] <OvenWerks> I did actually install and run 19.04... but not sure if I only did Studio on top on plasma or studio ISO too
[00:58] <Eickmeyer> Well, I've been running 19.04 for a while now, no issues here.
[00:59] <Eickmeyer> In fact, I just upgraded to Eoan, which isn't too far removed, and still no issues.
[00:59] <OvenWerks> I did load eoan (studio ISO) and had no problems there
[01:02] <Eickmeyer> I have the feeling this guy had an installation error or carried-over a configuration from somewhere he's not talking about.
[01:03] <OvenWerks> That was my first thought as well
[01:04] <OvenWerks> It is hard enough helping someone while looking at their computer... IRC always makes me feel I am missing something.
[01:04] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. He's asking for a workaround, and I'm like,  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[01:06] <OvenWerks> There are a number of ways to load an ISO to thumb drive, I know in the past some of them haven't worked. I also know that rebooting too soon after loading the iso to the USB drive can result in bad things too.
[01:06] <Eickmeyer> There's a number of things that could be wrong here.
[01:06] <Eickmeyer> But a bug report is no place for tech support.
[01:06] <Eickmeyer> Especially if it's valid, which this one is.
[01:07] <OvenWerks> dd seems to be the safest I have found so far... well safest for a correct usb install... not safest from the hey if you dd to your HD it is finished POV :)
[01:08] <Eickmeyer> There's a couple of GUI USB creators that work pretty well. On Windows: Rufus. Ubuntu (proper) installs one by default.
[01:09] <Eickmeyer> As does Kubuntu.
[01:09] <OvenWerks> we used to as well... then it stopped working
[01:10] <OvenWerks> or rather it works for the cycle but not for an iso in the next cycle (back when it was dropped)
[01:12] <Eickmeyer> That may still be the case, but I don't know. Haven't done it enough. I have a hard drive enclosure that emulates a CD drive using .iso files.
[15:42] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we should maybe blacklist timidity (if it isn't already)
[15:43] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: also add to the trouble shooting guide to check if ps x |timidity shows timidity is running
[15:44] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: also timidity should be listed as a known problem
[15:46] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ack
[15:47] <OvenWerks> timidity should probably not be a depend in anything :)
[15:48] <Eickmeyer> I'll investigate.
[15:50] <OvenWerks> if you show reverse depends in synaptic, the list is long.
[15:51] <Eickmeyer> Yikes.
[15:52] <OvenWerks> it even shows the two fluidsynth-sound fonts
[15:52] <OvenWerks> (so not all the depnds are hard, they may be recomends)
[15:53] <OvenWerks> I think they should be downgraded to suggests as many sw loaders auto load recomends
[15:55] <OvenWerks> I remember having this problem... years ago.
[15:55] <Eickmeyer> I'm trying to figure out where tidmidity got installed from anyways. I don't have it installed, which means it's not pulled-in with disco or eoan.
[15:56] <OvenWerks> No, it must be something he installed. A game or something like that
[15:56] <OvenWerks> or it could be an artifact of the upgrade process.
[15:57] <Eickmeyer> Ok, I'll just add it to the release notes.
[15:57] <Eickmeyer> All of this could've been figured out prior to release if people would just help with testing. >:(
[15:58] <OvenWerks> installing random sw is generally not covered in iso testing
[15:58] <Eickmeyer> True.
[15:59] <OvenWerks> timidity should have a dbus release this device built in (as pulse does). other wise it is bad (buggy?) sw
[16:08] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Stinkin' old project, still actively developed: https://sourceforge.net/p/timidity/git/ci/master/tree/
[16:08] <OvenWerks> timidity should be redesigned as a pulse module.
[16:09] <OvenWerks> yes very old
[16:09] <OvenWerks> from soundblaster days
[16:12] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: for the release notes: "Timidity has been known to cause problems with audio configurations on Ubuntu and will lock-up ALSA."
[16:13] <Eickmeyer> That's all I can think to put. We can't stop people from installing it, but we can warn them.
[16:13] <OvenWerks> ya
[16:21] <Eickmeyer> Done, and retroactively added to the release notes for Bionic and Cosmic.
[16:26] <OvenWerks> perhaps add a feature request to -controls to detect timidity or other process that has devices locked.
[18:03] <Eickmeyer> -controls got stuck in proposed. *sigh*
[18:03] <Eickmeyer> Fixed the version number, uploaded it, hopefully that will fix it.
[18:05] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just figured it out. The version number won't fix it. It depends on Carla. Will have to move that to recommends since Carla won't build on ppc, arm, or s390x.
[18:05] <Eickmeyer> Or, something.
[18:36] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: so should the Carla button detect if Carla is installed?
[18:37] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That would be preferable.
[18:38] <OvenWerks> Should pressing the button pop up a diolog "* not installed, Install now?"  ;)
[18:38] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's like you read my mind while I was using the washroom.
[18:40] <OvenWerks> so we should look for both /usr/bin/carla and /usr/local/bin
[18:40] <OvenWerks> That way someone who prefered to roll their own would not get left out.
[18:42] <Eickmeyer> Good call. Will also work for fedora/arch/opensuse too (though, the only other build I know of is for arch).
[18:42] <Eickmeyer> Could also just search $PATH
[18:43] <OvenWerks> I would think there should already be a python call that does that
[18:58] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm probably going to have to demote it to suggests. It's still shwing skipped.
[19:27] <OvenWerks> re timidity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/timidity/+bug/1793640
[19:27] <OvenWerks> there is a debian fix, but it has not made it to ubuntu
[19:28] <OvenWerks> This has been a bug since at least 2008 that has come and gone and come again.
[19:31] <OvenWerks> In my opinion, the design of timidity is fundamentally flawed. It should in daemon mode, add a pseudo device that looks like hardware and responds like hardware and mixes application audio with it's own. Or if Pulse or jack are present it should become a client/module for which ever one holds the device.
[19:32] <OvenWerks> The world has turned a few times since 1985.
[19:32] <OvenWerks> actually probably some time in the 90s using OSS
[19:57] <Eickmeyer> Yikes. Ancient stuff.
[23:14] <OvenWerks> Last updates I can find are 2004 for timidity++
[23:15] <OvenWerks> oops nope I found 2009
[23:20] <OvenWerks> Oh, but the ubuntu package is 2004
[23:33] <Eickmeyer> The ubuntu package is more recent than that. 
[23:33] <Eickmeyer> The debian package was updated only last year, and it's a direct sync from that.
[23:34] <OvenWerks> Maybe the home page this page points to is wrong then: https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/timidity
[23:34] <Eickmeyer> Yes, it is.
[23:34] <Eickmeyer> I researched it this morning.
 http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/timidity is where you want to poke though to see when the last package revision was
[23:35] <OvenWerks> where is the right page then?
 and then look at the specific changelogs ;)
 just an YFI :)
 FYI*
[23:35] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The Deiban Salsa repo is https://salsa.debian.org/debian/timidity
[23:37] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Sourceforge https://sourceforge.net/projects/timidity/
[23:37]  * Eickmeyer can't believe they still use sourceforge
[23:38] <Eickmeyer> Last commit was October.
[23:40] <OvenWerks> that is wierd, timidity.sourceforge.net is outdated I guess.
[23:43] <Eickmeyer> Not too weird. I suspect the project is dying.
[23:57] <teward> dead and dying project is dead and dying?