[05:45] <duflu> Hi andyrock
[06:12] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Monday!
[06:12] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[06:13] <oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
[06:26] <didrocks> good morning
[06:28] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[06:32] <didrocks> hey duflu
[06:34] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[06:38] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[07:28] <seb128> goooood morning desktopers
[07:28] <duflu> Hi seb128
[07:29] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:33] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[07:37] <seb128> hey duflu, lut didrocks & oSoMoN! did you have a good w.e?
[07:38] <didrocks> was good, thx, yours?
[07:38] <duflu> seb128, yes it was nice. You?
[07:40] <oSoMoN> seb128, a really good week-end, you?
[07:41] <seb128> it was nice, we had dinner with friends on saturday and there was the childcare suffest fest yesterday
[07:42] <seb128> also spent a good part of my saturday in a train working, but quiet hacking was alright :)
[08:01] <Laney> yo
[08:02] <duflu> Hi Laney
[08:04] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you? had a good w.e?
[08:05] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:06] <oSoMoN> yo Laney
[08:08] <Laney> hey duflu seb128 didrocks oSoMoN
[08:09] <Laney> was good yeah, nice weather, good gardening to be done :>
[08:09] <marcustomlinson> mornings!
[08:10] <Laney> guten morgen marcustomlinson
[08:12] <seb128> brb, changing location
[08:12] <marcustomlinson> gluten organ Laney
[08:13] <oSoMoN> that didn't sound right
[08:13] <oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
[08:13] <marcustomlinson> :) hey oSoMoN
[08:13] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson and willcooke
[08:14] <willcooke> morning|afternoon all
[08:15] <oSoMoN> morning willcooke
[08:17] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, willcooke
[08:17] <marcustomlinson> hey duflu didrocks willcooke and seb1<tab><tab><tab>
[08:27] <willcooke> Laney, woot.  This post should now be a wiki:  https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/testing-the-new-rls-bugs-output/11672
[08:29] <Laney> \o\ /o/
[08:34] <Trevinho> morning!
[08:35] <oSoMoN> morning Trevinho
[08:36] <seb128> hey willcooke Trevinho
[08:36] <Trevinho> hey seb128 and oSoMoN
[08:41] <marcustomlinson> morning Trevinho and seb128
[08:41] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson
[08:41] <didrocks> hey Trevinho
[08:44] <duflu> Morning Trevinho
[08:49] <Trevinho> hey marcustomlinson, didrocks and duflu
[09:14] <Laney> hey Trevinho
[09:14] <Laney> good weekend?
[09:50] <willcooke> tkamppeter, On Disco I can't choose to print in Black & White to my colour printer - how can I help fix it?
[09:51] <willcooke> afaict, it's using IPP
[09:52] <willcooke> In Printer Options -> Colour Mode ->  Only Colour is listed
[09:52] <willcooke> On 18.04 I was able to print in B&W, but maybe I fiddled with the drivers?
[09:53] <tkamppeter> willcooke, please post a bug report, telling which printer model, how it is connected, which PPD it got assigned (in /etc/cups/ppd/), error_log, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingPrintingProblems for more info.
[09:53] <willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
[10:15] <willcooke> tkamppeter, where should the bug go?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups ?
[10:23] <tkamppeter> Yes
[10:56] <Laney> dear awesome bar, please forget about the 19.04 trello board
[11:54] <james_brown> how do i publish proprietary software in the Ubuntu Software Center?
[11:56] <Laney> create a snap package and publish it to the snap store
[11:58] <seb128> Do we switch to gcc9 by default in e? was that announced somewhere?
[12:00] <Laney> yep, and Dimitri's post on discourse mentioned it: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/eoan-is-open-for-development/10772
[12:01] <james_brown> Laney And what if I want to publish them on PPA?
[12:01] <seb128> Laney, thx
[12:04] <Laney> james_brown: Well that wouldn't be visible in the software centre
[12:06] <james_brown> Laney I know, I was just informed by the delopment team that they dont want to release the software on snap for now
[12:07] <Laney> OK, well then I guess it's not possible then
[12:07] <james_brown> really? proprietary software can only be released through snap?
[12:08] <Laney> No. You asked about having it visible in Software
[12:09] <james_brown> yeah forget that part for now :D
[12:09] <Laney> Then you can use a PPA
[12:09] <james_brown> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU .    here it says i should release it for debian first and then sync it to ubuntu
[12:10] <james_brown> does debian support close source packages?
[12:10] <Laney> Sure, if you can find someone willing to sponsor it to 'non-free' for you
[12:11] <james_brown> the software is free, just not open source
[12:11] <Laney> yep, it means non-free software, not non-free cost
[12:12] <james_brown> oh i see
[12:12] <james_brown> thank you
[12:13] <Laney> You'll have a hard time updating it in released versions of Debian/Ubuntu though - a lot of software vendors find this restriction problematic
[12:13] <Laney> The repositories are more-or-less frozen at release time
[12:14] <james_brown> why is that?
[12:15] <james_brown> so Snap would be the best way to release a software that is easy to update?
[12:15] <Laney> That's one of its big selling points - updating is in the hands of the maintainer rather than the distribution
[12:17] <james_brown> but debian will not allow me to release updates?
[12:19] <Laney> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch05.html#upload-stable
[12:19] <ogra> it will allow you to release into the next/upcoming debian release by finding a willing sponsor among the debian uploaders ... or you can use the backports repository to provide a backport to debian users ...
[12:19] <Laney> There are backports
[12:19] <james_brown> oh ok
[12:20] <ogra> (compared to a snap package this involves a lot of paperwork and communication indeed)
[12:20] <Laney> I don't know that I'd really advise this route for maintaining one piece of proprietary software
[12:20] <ogra> yeah
[12:20] <james_brown> so i see that releasing a snap package is the easiest and least painful way
[12:20] <ogra> definitely
[12:20] <Laney> More common is for vendors to maintain their own .deb archive on their website, if you do insist on using .deb packages for whatever reason
[12:21] <ogra> (and you show up in the SW center for free ;) )
[12:21] <Laney> indeed
[12:22] <james_brown> i see
[12:23] <james_brown> could you elaborate on the "maintain their own .deb archive on their website" part?  they dont need to be .deb packages at any cost, its just what was suggested by that ubuntu wiki page
[12:25] <Laney> See what Chrome and Skype and Spotify do (although some of those offer Snaps too)
[12:25] <Laney> Most of the documentation you'll find about the Ubuntu archive is going to be about free software
[12:25] <james_brown> and by free you mean open source
[12:26] <Laney> as in this sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software
[12:27] <james_brown> ok
[12:27] <Laney> going to eat my lunch now, hope this has been helpful
[12:27] <james_brown> so i will look into how Chrome and Skype to that.  Thank you all for the help
[12:27] <james_brown> enjoy your food!
[12:27] <james_brown> it was
[12:43] <james_brown> ogra Wait a minute, returning to the updatin .deb packages subject, if repositories are frozen at release time how is it that i can always update software on ubuntu with apt upgrade?
[12:45] <Gargoyle> james_brown: Things like Chrome will add their own entries in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ which will then be scanned when you run "apt update".
[12:45] <ogra> james_brown, ubuntu does regular security updates of supported debs and there is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[12:45] <ogra> this is what you typically get with apt upgrade
[13:17] <james_brown> Gargoyle and a regular developer cant do that?
[13:21] <ogra> no, a sysadmin of the user machine can do that ...
[13:22] <ogra> they just provide their own repo or a PPA or whatnot ... and instructions how to add it to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[13:23] <james_brown> ok so i could add instuctions to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ so that my software will update every time u hit apt upgrade
[13:24] <ogra> no, you add instructions to a website, blogpost etc ... the admin then adds it to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ if he wants to ...
[13:24] <ogra> if you use a PPA the instructions are typically at the top of the PPA page on lanuchpad
[13:25] <james_brown> oh ok
[13:25] <james_brown> i see
[13:25] <james_brown> thanks a lot
[13:25] <ogra> np
[13:32] <willcooke> tkamppeter,  ok, maybe this isn't a CUPS thing at all, but a Gtk thing.  I will keep plying
[13:32] <willcooke> playing
[13:55] <willcooke> Anyone running D or E with a colour (laser) printer?  Looking for someone to check something for me (cc tkamppeter)
[14:14] <Laney> fraid not, but my inkjet definitely has those options present in disco
[14:14] <Laney> I used them the other day
[14:22] <willcooke> np, thanks Laney
[14:23] <Laney> me stupid colour cartridge is always half empty
[14:23]  * Laney stabs printers
[14:23] <Laney> (sorry Till)
[14:26] <ginggs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wsjroVlu8
[14:26] <Laney> that
[14:26] <ginggs> PC LOAD LETTER
[14:28] <teward> > CPU#0: Possible thermal failure (CPU on fire ?)
[14:28] <teward> LO
[14:52] <willcooke> XD
[14:53] <Laney> :>
[15:17] <Trevinho> didrocks: merge dance? :P
[15:17] <Trevinho> almost, at least :P
[15:21] <didrocks> Trevinho: looks like from Florian directly
[15:21] <didrocks> but yeah, finally done :)
[15:22] <Laney> !1?
[15:23] <didrocks> yep!
[15:23] <Laney> woot
[15:36] <Laney> willcooke: where's the code for the rls bugs script again?
[15:36] <willcooke> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/+junk/rls_bug_tracker
[15:37] <Laney> thx
[15:37] <willcooke> Laney, you wont like it
[15:37] <willcooke> :)
[15:37] <Laney> I'll close me eyes
[15:37] <willcooke> :)
[16:23] <jackpot51> The new AMD Ryzen 3000 series processors are out, and there are serious issues on Ubuntu versions newer than 18.04: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1835809
[16:23] <jackpot51> Which IRC channel should I discuss this in?
[16:29] <gQuigs> I'd think #ubuntu-devel
[16:30] <gQuigs> but afaict that patch seems to indicate it should really be fixed elsewhere...
[16:34] <jackpot51> It is already applied in systemd master
[16:34] <jackpot51> As of systemd version 243
[17:05] <Trevinho> Laney: I've updated this MR with those crashes fixes (https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/mutter/merge_requests/40/)... Can you handle the backporting to disco as well ? :)
[17:05] <gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 40 in mutter "Teardown and Focus fix patches" [Opened]
[18:04] <willcooke> night all
[18:12] <Trevinho> Laney: also updated https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+git/mutter/+merge/369334  :)
[19:18] <Laney> Trevinho: I'm not going to upload to Debian/eoan before 3.33.4 now, no point in bothering
[19:19] <Laney> how do you always manage to make such big patch series?!?!?!
[19:21] <Laney> Trevinho: get duflu's thing merged for 3.33.4 please :)
[19:21] <Laney> now the real reason I'm online is to attempt a crossgrade from i386 to amd64 on my server - wish me luck ...
[19:23] <popey> you should write that up, i reckon people would find your experience useful
[19:23] <popey> s/people/I/
[19:23] <popey> (as I have an i386 bitfolk vps)
[19:23] <Laney> I'm going to follow https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading
[19:23] <popey> ooh
[19:24] <Laney> except for bitfolk you have to run some "arch" command in the shell before booting to the amd64 kernel
[19:24] <popey> bet a blog post syndicated on planet ubuntu would get more viewers
[19:24] <Laney> haha
[19:24] <popey> (I had no idea it was called crossgrading)
[19:24] <Laney> nod, it's a bit of an obscure term
[19:25] <seb128> could someone who speaks vala have a look to that one liner to see if it makes sense to them to fix a ftbfs? https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/indicator-keyboard/vala-44-fix/+merge/369794
[19:25] <Laney> I mean if you were to do it you'd have some kind of elite live stream going on or something
[19:25] <Laney> ricotz:
[19:25] <Laney> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[19:25] <seb128> thx :)
[19:25]  * Laney doesn't know what that means really
[19:25] <seb128> Laney, good luck for the crossgrading :)
[19:26] <Laney> first I'm going to shave this big hairy yak and move the VPN stuff from my desktop to the new rpi
[19:54] <ricotz> seb128, looks good
[19:58] <seb128> ricotz, thx
[20:27]  * Laney aborts this attempt for now, got to go cook /o\
[20:31] <seb128> :-(