[00:24] <Eickmeyer> CheetahPixie: Using ubuntustudio-controls allows you to have ALL audio devices connected, not just one-at-a-time like qjackctl enables. The performance tweaks get the system audio as close as possible to real time.  Ubuntu Studio Controls takes the place of qjackctl. Use Carla for the patchbay as it's far superior.
[01:08] <CheetahPixie> Eickmeyer I don't see why I need some silly low latencies for a microphone.
[01:08] <CheetahPixie> Hell, I don't see why I need imperceptible latencies at all.
[01:09] <Eickmeyer> CheetahPixie: There's inherent latency. Lowllatency reduces that.
[01:09] <CheetahPixie> No idea what impact that has on me.
[01:09] <Eickmeyer> CheetahPixie: Do what you want. Just trying to help.
[01:09] <CheetahPixie> Pulseaudio and regular kernels work fine.
[01:09] <CheetahPixie> Yeah, and I'm just confused over why I supposedly need lowlatency stuff.
[01:10] <CheetahPixie> And what difference it even makes.
[01:10] <Eickmeyer> Jack is made to run in lowlatency environments. You expressed the need to run Jack. If you want PulseAudio instead, then ignore everything I was trying to help you with.
[01:11] <CheetahPixie> The sole reason I want jack is for realtime effects on the microphone.
[01:12] <CheetahPixie> Because apparently this is a hairy butt pain with Pulse, and I'm not hopping distros.
[01:12] <CheetahPixie> That's pretty much the reason I was using qjackctl for this.
[01:12] <CheetahPixie> A (hopefully) simple solution to the problem.
[01:12] <Eickmeyer> CheetahPixie: If you won't follow my suggestions, then I can't help you. Ubuntu Studio Controls replaces qjackctl.
[01:13] <CheetahPixie> But I've precisely zero idea what I'm even doing with it. I know that qjackctl has a start button, bridges Pulse to Jack, and (fingers crossed) it Just Works(tm)
[01:13] <CheetahPixie> So I'm also kinda ignorant and stupid.
[01:14] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu Studio Controls simplifies the process.
[01:14] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-controls
[01:14] <CheetahPixie> In the Controls program that you suggested, I have Jack running, and audio out works, but plugging/unplugging the microphone causes it to loop back to dummy output (twice) and back to jack sink (twice)
[01:14] <CheetahPixie> It's certainly easier to get it to produce working audio out of Jack, yeah.
[01:14] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu Studio Controls uses Jack as the backend.
[01:14] <CheetahPixie> But beyond that, I have absolutely no idea what I am even doing
[01:15] <Eickmeyer> CheetahPixie: Read the link I just posted.
[01:15] <Eickmeyer> Then use Carla to insert the effects into the microphone. It acts like and audio rack & patchbay.
[01:17] <CheetahPixie> I'm in the patchbay section of Carla.
[01:17] <CheetahPixie> 1: I actually *see* my USB ADC now.
[01:17] <CheetahPixie> 2: The interface actually works. Screw Patchage... and whatever forum post suggested it with its dysmal UI, so thanks for that at least.
[01:18] <CheetahPixie> Will the Carla patchbay remain when jackd (or the machine) is rebooted?
[01:18] <Eickmeyer> No, but you can save your patchbay.
[01:18] <Eickmeyer> So, make sure you do that.
[01:19] <CheetahPixie> Any way to apply it on start?
[01:19] <Eickmeyer> No, but it's a real quick double-click in the sidebar.
[01:19] <Eickmeyer> Just double-click the settings you saved.
[01:20] <Eickmeyer> You wanted to insert effects into the signal from the mic, correct?
[01:20] <Eickmeyer> That's why I suggested lsp-plugins (in the backports).
[01:20] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-backports
[01:23] <CheetahPixie> I'll note this for later, and you could've told me when I asked.
[01:23] <CheetahPixie> I wanted to see what JACK Rack could do.
[01:23] <CheetahPixie> I'm new to Jack and I wanna mess around with it.
[01:24] <CheetahPixie> (Hence me actually figuring out *somehow* that X goes to Y in the connect window.)
[01:24] <Eickmeyer> Are you irritated with me? I'm just trying to help. I'm not paid to do this, you konw.
[01:25] <Eickmeyer> CheetahPixie: Also, Jack Rack is depricated in favor of Carla.
[01:26] <Eickmeyer> Jack Rack stopped development years ago. Carla is very active.
[01:26] <CheetahPixie> I'm not really irritated, it's just that I ask when I want an answer (unlike a lot of people).
[01:27] <Eickmeyer> Well, this is free support. I was trying to get to it, but we needed to establish the ground work first.
[01:27] <CheetahPixie> So, me asking "why XYZ? what do I have to do with it?" could have been met with an explanation. I realize this is free, but I also realize I can be difficult to deal with, so sorry.
[01:27] <CheetahPixie> The ground work is what can be established when I know what I'm doing.
[01:27] <CheetahPixie> If I'm asking, I have no idea.
[01:28] <Eickmeyer> Well, just play around with it. Experiment. Have fun. You'll never get anywhere just talking in a chat room.
[01:28] <Eickmeyer> We're not here to "hand hold".
[01:29] <CheetahPixie> As for a bit of context around the Pulse confusion: I was saying that it works fine, as in I don't even notice any latency at all, and don't know *how* Jack is supposed to improve on... no perceptible latency (to me).
[01:29] <CheetahPixie> And I still don't know why really low latencies would ever be important for anything.
[01:29] <Eickmeyer> That's fine. Do what you want with the latency. If you start hearing pops and clicks, then latency coud be involved.
[01:30] <CheetahPixie> Isn't that the buffer?
[01:30] <CheetahPixie> Also, does Jack automatically add USB devices? The directions in the link are a bit confusing.
[01:30] <Eickmeyer> That's related, but you can't do lower buffers without increasing some latency and making an echo effect.
[01:30] <CheetahPixie> USB masters override internal? So I shouldn't have one?
[01:30] <Eickmeyer> Jack does NOT automatically add USB unless it has been configured to do so, which is why Ubuntu Studio Controls does what it does.
[01:31] <CheetahPixie> Don't know what I'd hear echo in, but it's the first time I hear of anything like that, which probably tells you how out of left field I'm coming into professional audio.
[01:31] <CheetahPixie> I only see a "Bridge USB devices to Jack when plugged in" option, and assumed that translated to "if there are USB devices, add them".
[01:32] <Eickmeyer> Did you read the wiki link? It explains this.
[01:32] <Eickmeyer> Okay, I can't answer all of your questions WHEN you ask because you ask another question immediately after. That's not fair to me.
[01:32] <Eickmeyer> Be patient and wait for answers, then ask your next quesiton.
[01:33] <Eickmeyer> Basically, the checkbox refers to hotplugging which Jack cannot do by default. That's one of the reasons Ubuntu Studio Controls exists, and it's the first application of its kind to configure Jack to do USB hotplugging support.
[01:34] <CheetahPixie> Gotcha.
[01:34] <CheetahPixie> I read the wiki, and realized that, but you said that the Controls did something about enabling USB, or so I read it, so I was about to ask the question you answered.
[01:36] <CheetahPixie> Also, if you don't mind a technical question.
[01:37] <CheetahPixie> Since I don't have an Intel processor, and the "Intel Boost" thing being on apparently introduces trouble with low-latency stuff, is it correct of me to assume AMD (FX series) turbo also causes similar issues? If so, why is there not an option for it, or the boost controls made less specific?
[01:39] <Eickmeyer> 1) I have an AMD processor, and the option is grayed-out, but I have never had issues. 2) The person who programmed Ubuntu Studio Controls (OvenWerks) doesn't have an AMD processor, so nothing to test with.
[01:39] <CheetahPixie> Ah, got it.
[01:42] <CheetahPixie> Does this look correct for a mono device?
[01:42] <CheetahPixie> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/765e8f35d8ab44fef712b9ccf57ca223/image.png
[01:42] <CheetahPixie> Or, well, a mono input.
[01:43] <Eickmeyer> Yep, that should do it. It's probably "seen" as a stereo input because whoever manufactured the mic probably was lazy and used a stereo hardware interface internally.
[01:43] <CheetahPixie> Oh, no.
[01:43] <CheetahPixie> This is a dual input ADC.
[01:43] <Eickmeyer> Oh, okay.
[01:43] <CheetahPixie> This is not laziness. This is PS2 hardware that works surprisingly well.
[01:44] <Eickmeyer> So, yes, if you're only using one input, then you're good.
[01:44] <Eickmeyer> You can insert effects into that signal path with the rack side of Carla. those will appear as devices as if they were actual hardware inside the patchbay.
[01:44] <Eickmeyer> Any settings you make in the effects plugins will be saved by Carla when you save your rack/patchbay file.
[01:45] <CheetahPixie> Thanks to Jack though, I can just wire them both to both inputs, instead of doing editing tomfoolery to duplicate each channel due to how this ADC is configured. I was thinking about this use for possible interviews later. Only needs a 3D printed case since the case mic ports are a little bit too snug, and requires me to actually strip it off to us
[01:45] <CheetahPixie> e anything not for Singstar.
[01:45] <CheetahPixie> Gotcha about the saves.
[01:45] <CheetahPixie> I liked seeing Eurorack like screw holes.
[01:45] <CheetahPixie> They also remind me of servers.
[01:46] <CheetahPixie> But now I have mic latency that was absent on Pulse.
[01:46] <Eickmeyer> Hehe, yeah. I'm a 25-year audio engineer, so I really like the metaphor.
[01:46] <CheetahPixie> See, I'm a server nerd of only a couple years, and I already like this.
[01:46] <CheetahPixie> I want a cabinet, but they're buttloads of money locally...
[01:47] <CheetahPixie> Then there's the Ikea furniture that basically fits 19" exactly...
[01:47] <Eickmeyer> That's why I went with software. Software plugins are so much more economical than their hardware counterparts.
[01:47] <Eickmeyer> Anyhow, about the latency, you might adjust the buffer to be lower. When you start hearing pops and clicks, you've gone too far.
[01:48] <Eickmeyer> That's where the lowlatency kernel and performance tweaks come into play: it allows you to have lower buffers than are otherwise achievable.
[01:48] <CheetahPixie> I know about underruns from my, like, seven days with FL when I was a meager teen.
[01:48] <CheetahPixie> Oh! Okay.
[01:49] <CheetahPixie> But why doesn't Pulse have this latency?
[01:49] <CheetahPixie> That's what confuses me the most.
[01:49] <OvenWerks> pulse doesn't need it
[01:49] <CheetahPixie> Doesn't need latency...?
[01:50] <OvenWerks> lowlatency in the desktop/laptop world that most people think of says 30ms latency is already low latency
[01:50] <OvenWerks> skype is built with 30ms latency in mind.
[01:51] <OvenWerks> laptop mics and desktop mic inputs are of a quality that is good enough for phone and not much else
[01:51] <CheetahPixie> Oh, so there's still some latency.
[01:51] <CheetahPixie> Got it.
[01:51] <CheetahPixie> Wonder what 30ms hurts in audio... and why my mic had like half a second.
[01:51] <CheetahPixie> But I'm gonna try a buffer of 1024 now.
[01:51] <OvenWerks> pulse run higher latency... and a type of sliding latency
[01:52] <CheetahPixie> Sliding latency... that sounds to me like variable.
[01:52] <OvenWerks> but pulse is not bit transparent
[01:52] <CheetahPixie> Bit transparent?
[01:52] <OvenWerks>  part of the audio go missing.
[01:52] <CheetahPixie> What parts, though?
[01:52] <OvenWerks> this is ok for watching a video or doing chats, but not for profesional audio
[01:53] <OvenWerks> the parts that go missing might be anything. record stereo long enough and the right and left channels may be of different lengths
[01:56] <OvenWerks> That is why there is a sliding buffer, if something is missing it can be skipped...
[01:59] <OvenWerks> someone recording a music festival over 12 hours with 100+ channels, wants all those channels to still be in perfect sync at the end of that 12 hours.
[01:59] <OvenWerks> (yes people do this with linux/jackd/ardour)
[02:44] <CheetahPixie> ooooh, so it's mostly an error thing that grows over time
[02:44] <CheetahPixie> like that one Dolphin Emulator bug
[02:45] <CheetahPixie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxGg1TCpYrc this one in particular
[02:48] <CheetahPixie> a basic rundown: there was a floating point bug that created *really* small errors, but enough to cause games like Mario Kart Wii to actually become desynchronized as seen in the above with a replay imported from a Wii. Emulator to emulator was fine, but between emulator and Wii, the physics actually differed very slightly.
[02:48] <CheetahPixie> Sounds like this 12 hours and 100 channels being "desynced" is basically the same as the case above, and would explain why latency is such a stringent requirement, so thanks.
[02:52] <CheetahPixie> But I've encountered a tiny issue.
[02:52] <CheetahPixie> So this ADC has a mono mode.
[02:52] <CheetahPixie> I use it since I only have one microphone
[02:52] <CheetahPixie> And Jack keeps switching it to stereo and I have no idea how to change it back.
[03:29] <CheetahPixie> Somehow, setting it to mono in Pulse, and then stopping/restarting Jack a couple times made it work.
[03:46] <CheetahPixie> And now I've even figured out the effects in Carla.
[03:46] <CheetahPixie> Thanks, lads.
[20:00] <willsquibb3509> how long does it take to install ubuntu studio
[20:02] <OerHeks> depends on your internet speed, maybe an hour or less
[20:02] <OvenWerks> depends... on disk speed and network bandwidth if updates are downloaded during install
[20:03] <Eickmeyer> In my experience, < 30 minutes
[20:03] <OvenWerks> I guess the speed of the USB stick/DVD drive may make a difference as well
[20:04] <Eickmeyer> Got their answer and not so much as a thanks.
[20:04] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think that just means install finished ;)
[20:04] <Eickmeyer> hehe
[20:16] <OerHeks> .. and it takes day to go through all the tools and manu.. oh
[20:33] <Eickmeyer> OerHeks: That's assuming one installs everything. Individual packages can be dropped during the first part of install. :)