| camelotbob | Good morning #ubuntu-mate | 12:43 |
|---|---|---|
| Gosset | good morning | 12:44 |
| Gosset | and long life | 12:44 |
| kernal_ | Ohayo! | 12:48 |
| camelotbob | Have you guys ever seen delayed movements with a wifi mouse on Ubuntu Mate? Any mouse movements are about 1/4 seconds or more delayed. If you spin the mouse in several circles, it takes a few second for it to repeat your action. | 12:50 |
| Gosset | nop | 12:52 |
| camelotbob | It works fine on my windows laptop, so I was wondering if it was a driver problem. Mouse --> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BIFNTMC | 12:52 |
| Gosset | I got my Ubuntu Mate a little slowlier since I installed Gnome apps | 12:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Possibly drivers are unavailable. | 12:58 |
| Gosset | Hi, how do I activate Trash on auto mounted ext4 partition? | 13:00 |
| Gosset | options are: nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show,x-gvfs-name=Data | 13:00 |
| Gosset | maybe replacing nosuid by uid=1000 ? | 13:00 |
| Gosset | the guys on ubuntu chan do not help me :( | 13:01 |
| Gosset | seriously? | 13:06 |
| Gosset | for me it's a basic question | 13:06 |
| Gosset | I it's strange I don't found the answer on Google | 13:07 |
| camelotbob | I found a few references to mouse lag when it's a wifi mouse. So it's probably not ubuntu. | 13:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | If you check for Additional Drivers in Software and Updates it's not technically wifi just 2.4Ghz | 13:09 |
| kernal_ | there's such a things as a wifi mouse?? | 13:09 |
| kernal_ | why? | 13:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Gosset: I dont understand your question | 13:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | No idea some wireless mice use 2.4G to a USB RX for some reason | 13:10 |
| Gosset | my English is poor I know | 13:11 |
| kernal_ | adding wifi latency of course there's gonna be a delay :S | 13:11 |
| Gosset | there is no trash can in my auto mounted /mnt/data partition | 13:11 |
| kernal_ | what does trash have to do with mounting a drive? | 13:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Gosset: "Trash" is only in one location on each system | 13:12 |
| kernal_ | mount /dev/name_of_disk /where_you_want_to_mount/some_folder | 13:13 |
| Gosset | I see | 13:13 |
| Gosset | so when I delete any file from my "data" partition, it's permanently deleted | 13:14 |
| Gosset | :( | 13:14 |
| alkisg | Gosset: if you have enough rights, a .Trash-(uid) folder is created for each volume | 13:15 |
| kernal_ | rm /* | 13:15 |
| alkisg | It's hidden so you need to `ls -la` or Ctrl+H to see it | 13:15 |
| alkisg | But you need write access there | 13:15 |
| Gosset | of course I have write access | 13:15 |
| Gosset | it's a personal computer | 13:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Gosset: I imagine you have a .Trash file within your partition | 13:15 |
| Gosset | nop | 13:16 |
| alkisg | For example, "administrator" doesn't have write access to "/" | 13:16 |
| alkisg | Even on personal computers | 13:16 |
| Gosset | I have a lost&found | 13:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Due to the drive being treated as a removable one | 13:16 |
| tomreyn | the same discussion is also happening in #ubuntu currently | 13:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ctrl+H may show hidden files | 13:16 |
| Gosset | yes tomreyn | 13:16 |
| Gosset | sorry | 13:17 |
| Gosset | I focus on this chan from now on | 13:17 |
| Gosset | the only hidden file on my separate partition is lost&found | 13:17 |
| alkisg | Gosset: I didn't see the start of the discussion; what file system is this, ext4? In ext4 users don't have write access to /. | 13:17 |
| alkisg | So they can't get .Trash folders there | 13:17 |
| Gosset | yes alkisg | 13:18 |
| Gosset | oh my | 13:18 |
| alkisg | You'd need to create it manually | 13:18 |
| Gosset | every time ? | 13:18 |
| alkisg | Just once | 13:18 |
| Gosset | ok | 13:18 |
| Gosset | with which name | 13:18 |
| Gosset | .Trash? | 13:18 |
| alkisg | .Trash-1000, or whatever your uid is | 13:18 |
| alkisg | id -u shows it | 13:19 |
| alkisg | Remember to chown it to your uid | 13:19 |
| Gosset | yes, it's 1000 | 13:19 |
| alkisg | so, chown 1000:1000 /path/to/folder/.Trash-1000 | 13:19 |
| alkisg | Then you can test with gvfs-trash; it should move a file from that volume inside trash | 13:20 |
| alkisg | (if it belongs to you, again; otherwise you can't delete it without using sudo) | 13:20 |
| Gosset | Now I don't know what I've typed, I don't have permissions to write anything on the partition :( | 13:21 |
| alkisg | It's normal not to have permissions to write to ext4 | 13:21 |
| alkisg | sudo mkdir /path/to/folder/username; sudo chown 1000:1000 /path/to/folder/username; ==> will give you a folder for this user | 13:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I personally have my data drives as /data0 /data1 etc not /mnt/data. Then within there a .Trash-1000 was automagically made the first time I deleted something. | 13:21 |
| alkisg | Automounted folders go to /media/volume | 13:21 |
| alkisg | While /mnt/volume is wrong, FHS says /mnt shouldn't have subdirs | 13:21 |
| Gosset | I'll restart | 13:22 |
| Gosset | ok, it works ... partly | 13:25 |
| Gosset | I don't have write access on /mnt/Data, but I have w access to folders inside /mnt/Data | 13:26 |
| Gosset | strange! | 13:26 |
| alkisg | Gosset: what is /mnt/Data? | 13:26 |
| alkisg | What mounts it there? | 13:26 |
| alkisg | Do you have an entry in fstab for that? | 13:26 |
| Gosset | it's my auto mounted partition | 13:27 |
| Gosset | of course | 13:27 |
| Gosset | it automounts every time | 13:27 |
| alkisg | /mnt/Data is the wrong path to use, that's why I'm asking | 13:27 |
| alkisg | Automounted partitions go to /media/ | 13:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | If the drive is internal I personally would give it a dir in root so /data0 as ext4. If removable media then I would normally format as FAT anyways and let the system mount it to /media or whereever. I feel /mnt is fairly redundant in a modern ubuntu distro. | 13:27 |
| Gosset | it was automatically mounted there | 13:28 |
| alkisg | Is this Ubuntu? | 13:28 |
| Gosset | I used to have it on /media too | 13:28 |
| alkisg | Ubuntu doesn't use /mnt to automount things | 13:28 |
| Gosset | yes | 13:28 |
| alkisg | You modified it somehow | 13:28 |
| alkisg | Did you put it in /etc/fstab? Paste the line here | 13:28 |
| Gosset | nope | 13:28 |
| alkisg | grep /mnt /proc/mounts | 13:29 |
| alkisg | What's the output of this/ | 13:29 |
| alkisg | And, grep /mnt /etc/fstab | 13:29 |
| alkisg | The output of this too | 13:29 |
| Gosset | chown 1000:1000 /path/to/folder/.Trash-1000 | 13:29 |
| Gosset | sorry | 13:29 |
| Gosset | # /etc/fstab: static file system information. | 13:29 |
| Gosset | # | 13:29 |
| Gosset | # Use 'blkid' to print the universally unique identifier for a | 13:29 |
| Gosset | # device; this may be used with UUID= as a more robust way to name devices | 13:29 |
| Gosset | # that works even if disks are added and removed. See fstab(5). | 13:29 |
| alkisg | Don't flood | 13:29 |
| alkisg | Now you were muted | 13:29 |
| alkisg | Wait a bit, then type the output that I asked for; it's one line, not all the fstab | 13:29 |
| alkisg | I think the bot unmutes you after 1 minute... | 13:30 |
| Gosset | https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Hk4sHQ3B98/ | 13:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I'd backup fstab and re setup the drive for /data0 | 13:31 |
| alkisg | Yup, you manually put it there | 13:31 |
| Gosset | I swear I didn't put it manually there | 13:31 |
| alkisg | sixwheeledbeast: sorry but that's not really good advice | 13:31 |
| alkisg | Please google for "FHS", file system hierarchy standard | 13:31 |
| alkisg | There are valid and invalid places to mount things... | 13:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I know about FHS | 13:31 |
| alkisg | Gosset: in any case, what you see is normal. It's an ext4 file system, you don't have access to /, and you have to subfolders | 13:32 |
| alkisg | You could chown /, but using subfolders is fine too | 13:32 |
| Gosset | then I'll chown / | 13:32 |
| alkisg | It's like "you're not able to write to /home or to /, but you can write to /home/username" | 13:32 |
| alkisg | Gosset: I mean /mnt/Dades of course, not / directly, right? | 13:32 |
| Gosset | yes | 13:33 |
| Gosset | I've configured all my system with /mnt/Dades | 13:33 |
| alkisg | OK; note that you'll no longer be able to boot from that disk, if you ever install an os in this | 13:33 |
| Gosset | the idea is to store my data there only | 13:33 |
| alkisg | As many apps expect the root dir to be root-owned, otherwise consider it a security issue | 13:33 |
| alkisg | OK | 13:33 |
| Gosset | thanks | 13:33 |
| alkisg | Go on, just keep that in mind | 13:33 |
| Gosset | solved | 13:34 |
| Gosset | thanks a lot | 13:34 |
| alkisg | np | 13:35 |
| Gosset | I must say that in my old PC I had the same partition as NTFS in /media | 13:35 |
| Gosset | to share files with Windows | 13:35 |
| alkisg | NTFS gets automounted with the ability for users to write to / | 13:36 |
| alkisg | ext4 is different; it's automounted without that ability, and also without the ability to execute things from there | 13:36 |
| Gosset | but I discovered that ext4 files can be shared with a Windows partition too | 13:36 |
| Gosset | using Virtual Machine | 13:37 |
| Gosset | not a Windows partition sorry | 13:37 |
| Gosset | a Windows .vdi | 13:37 |
| Gosset | *VirtualBox | 13:37 |
| alkisg | With VirtualBox you're using vboxsf, not ext4, not ntfs | 13:38 |
| Gosset | It was stupid having the NTFS partition | 13:38 |
| alkisg | The files are accessed over vboxsf, something like "over the network" | 13:38 |
| Gosset | yes | 13:38 |
| Gosset | anyway, the NTFS filesystem would worth in a dual boot machine | 13:39 |
| Gosset | not my case | 13:39 |
| alkisg | Right | 13:40 |
| alkisg | I adviced a user for that a few months ago, maybe it was you D: | 13:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ? | 13:41 |
| alkisg | (that ntfs isn't needed when vboxfs is used) | 13:42 |
| sixwheeledbeast | oh | 13:42 |
| Gosset | it might be me xD | 13:42 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I thought you where still on about FHS | 13:43 |
| sixwheeledbeast | FHS has no comment on mounting other drives to /data or even Mac style /vol I have seen. | 13:45 |
| alkisg | 3.11. /media : Mount point for removable media 3.12. /mnt : Mount point for a temporarily mounted filesystem | 14:02 |
| alkisg | These are the standard mount points, unless of course a partition is reserved for another part of fhs, like /home, /var, whatever | 14:02 |
| alkisg | If you mount it to /data0, for example, you'd need to specially configure backup software to exlcude this | 14:03 |
| alkisg | Rationale . Placing the mount points for all removable media directly in the root directory would potentially result in a large number of extra directories in /. | 14:06 |
| alkisg | Although the use of subdirectories in /mnt as a mount point has recently been common, it conflicts with a much older tradition of using /mnt directly as a temporary mount point. | 14:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Exactly neither mount point is listed by FHS for permanently mounted drives. I can't see why you would need to backup root backup would normally be for user data anyway. I am not saying for removable media I am on about a internal extra drive. FHS as no comment on where to mount them is my point, plenty of advise on where to mount specifics but not a "data" drive. | 14:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | If the drive is for a specific job listed in the FHS then it should be mounted there, that being anywhere /srv /home/user0 /opt /var/mail whatever. However, in this case /data0 is a pretty suitable place for an additional data drive and there is nothing in the FHS that explicitly forbids this. | 14:23 |
| alkisg | sixwheeledbeast: see the sentence above, " Placing the mount points for all removable media directly in the root directory would potentially result in a large number of extra directories in /." | 14:25 |
| alkisg | It's an advice against this | 14:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | "removable" | 14:25 |
| alkisg | (from fhs copy/paste) | 14:25 |
| alkisg | the rationale is the same | 14:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | internal drives are not considered "removable" they are as removable as the system drive | 14:27 |
| alkisg | We can play with words, but what's the difference between "internal drive for media" vs "external drive for media" wrt to that specific sentence? | 14:28 |
| alkisg | Don't they both clutter /? | 14:28 |
| alkisg | Backup root drive => eh, do I really need to justify why people backup their /?! | 14:29 |
| alkisg | Software that backs up / knows to exclude /media and /mnt, but not /data0 | 14:30 |
| alkisg | In any case, I'm not someone for looong chats, I just wanted to point to what I've read/seen with experience; anyone can then follow whatever he likes best! Coffee time now . :) | 14:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | You can have all your / subdirectories on different physical drives if you wanted. They are all part of the system and not "removable" | 14:31 |
| alkisg | It would be a cluttered / then | 14:31 |
| alkisg | That's the point of FHS, to make things make more sense | 14:31 |
| alkisg | You can have /data0 to /data100000 if you prefer it | 14:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | you would just do /data and then sub dirs | 14:32 |
| alkisg | It could be /data, /mata, /pata, /fata, not specifically data0 to numberxxx | 14:32 |
| alkisg | Different names that don't belong in subfolders :D | 14:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yes it could if you wanted. | 14:33 |
| alkisg | If you prefer /data with subfolders instead of /media with subfolders, sure, you can use that too | 14:33 |
| alkisg | I'm just saying what FHS suggests | 14:33 |
| sixwheeledbeast | As I say FHS doesn't have "specific" advise for this scenario | 14:34 |
| alkisg | Note that they also don't mention usb sticks etc; they can't mention everything; people will need to apply their good sense in cases not explicitly mentioned | 14:34 |
| alkisg | That doesn't mean that distros should use /usb and /sd-card for these | 14:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | No because they are covered under media | 14:34 |
| alkisg | How about internal usb sticks? Some boards have these too | 14:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | they are "removable" | 14:35 |
| alkisg | Nope, not more so than sata disks | 14:35 |
| alkisg | They're internal usb sticks | 14:35 |
| * alkisg has seen people argue about specific words in manuals and books for ages; he's not really into this :) | 14:35 | |
| alkisg | If you think this word removes the good sense behind that advice, you can surely ignore it | 14:36 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I am not arguing I am just defending the fact that there is no issue with mounting a /data drive like this as far as the FHS guidelines | 14:37 |
| alkisg | I don't see it that way; but I don't think we can convince each other either | 14:37 |
| sixwheeledbeast | As I say if it has a specific purpose it should be mounted there above all else first. | 14:39 |
| sixwheeledbeast | The point of the FHS is so there is a standard between distributions on file locations, this is why a /data would be out of scope. | 14:41 |
| alkisg | This argument is the same as why /media/alkisg is out of scope | 14:42 |
| alkisg | Or why /mnt/alkisg isn't a good place | 14:42 |
| alkisg | Anyway, really, we can't convince each other | 14:42 |
| alkisg | Let's drop it at this point | 14:42 |
| sixwheeledbeast | 1.1 Purpose The FHS document has a limited scope: Local placement of local files is a local issue, so FHS does not attempt to usurp system administrators. | 14:43 |
| alkisg | Advice only makes sense if it makes sense; what I perceive from FHS is clearly different from what you make sense of it; so each one can apply it as he sees fit | 14:45 |
| alkisg | I don't think anyone of us is giving advice anymore; so... | 14:45 |
| * alkisg waves | 14:45 | |
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