[00:06] <Kamilion> cfoch: this advice may or may not help after what you mentioned about your father changing PCs; but I'd suggest picking up a used i5 off ebay or something, like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compaq-Elite-8300-SFF-PC-Core-i5-3470-3-20GHz-8GB-RAM-500GB-HDD-Win10Pro/113811367268
[00:07] <cfoch> bot ^ ?
[00:07] <Kamilion> No. I'm human.
[00:07] <wxl> sounds like something a bot would say
[00:07] <cfoch> Yeah haha
[00:07] <Kamilion> Just saying, $90 can get you a very reasonable system instead of sticking with a Pentium 4 room-heater.
[00:07] <wxl> hahahahah i love that description
[00:08] <lynorian> that is why I stopped testing on my desktop pentium IVs
[00:08] <Kamilion> it's hard to justify keeping something as old as a P4 alive when used quadcores go for less than the price of a brand new copy of a retail microsoft OS
[00:09] <Kamilion> there was a $75 one without windows, but it only had 4GB of ram... *grin*
[00:10] <cfoch> Will the alternate Lubuntu 18.04 image fit in a CD? As I see in Wikipedia max size of a CD is 737.280 MB and the image size is 749.7 MB
[00:10] <Kamilion> but it's getting to be about the time where 32bit-only systems should be praised for their service and honorably retired.
[00:11] <Kamilion> yes, use an 80 minute blank CD
[00:11] <Kamilion> versus the 74 minute blank cd. I havn't seen a lot of those around anymore; generally only old audio cd players need them
[00:13] <Kamilion> and there's a couple 86 minute discs that support 800MB out there from sony
[00:14] <Kamilion> in general though, the image will be fine as long as it's written in disc-at-once mode.
[00:15] <Kamilion> the alternative is writing the image onto a 1GB or larger USB stick, although at this point I'm having trouble finding stock under 16GB sticks. My local frys doesn't seem to carry 8GBs at all anymore.
[00:16] <Kamilion> and the 16GBs are under $10
 although some pentium IVs won't boot from USB
 I know dell dimension 3000 won't and those were quite common
[00:17] <Kamilion> IIRC it was the athlon/pentium2/3 era that had the most issues with booting from USB2.0 devices
[00:18] <cfoch> Brasero tells it does not fit in a CD
[00:18] <cfoch> https://i.imgur.com/t72furr.png
[00:18] <Kamilion> is it a 74minute disc?
[00:18] <cfoch> it's a PRINCO 80 min disc
[00:18] <Kamilion> huh...
[00:19] <Kamilion> there should be a smaller netinstall iso
[00:19] <cfoch> could you give the link?
[00:19] <cfoch> please :)
[00:19] <Kamilion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic-updates/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[00:20] <Kamilion> that will fetch everything over the network
[00:22] <Kamilion> also, I should point out, hybrid-iso with a MBR has one of the highest chances of working on older USB1.1 boards, though sometimes one would have to locate and enable an IDE superfloppy compatiblity option
[00:22] <Kamilion> that was one of the ways around those grumpy dells
[00:23] <cfoch> how am I supposed to use that? will it load a list of available distros on the network and download and install the one I select "on demand"?
[00:23] <Kamilion> yeah.
[00:23] <Kamilion> you'll get a 'tasksel list'
[00:23] <Kamilion> which will show lxde / Lubuntu
[00:23] <cfoch> and by network do you mean the Internet or a local network?
[00:23] <Kamilion> internet
[00:24] <Kamilion> although if you had a second computer, you could certainly spend time setting up a local network repository. No real benefit to it though.
[00:25] <Kamilion> I'm on a local network with hundreds of systems; so for me; it makes more sense. (and for that, I use apt-squid-proxy and apt-squid-proxy-client )
[00:27] <Kamilion> I do have a nice 32GB USB3.0 stick with a persistant install of lubuntu on it, that I bring with me everywhere.
[00:27] <Kamilion> https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Digital-32GB-Traveler-DT50/dp/B01JHE505Y
[00:28] <Kamilion> it's kinda chunky, but it never gets hot and I can't really complain for $6
[00:34] <cfoch> just to confirm, although I would think that it is for 32 bits because of "installer-i386" , http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic-updates/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso is for 32 bits right?
[00:34] <Kamilion> yes
[00:35] <Kamilion> as intel's 64bit platform itanium failed, they inherited AMD's 64bit platform, so http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic-updates/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso applies to any modern 64bit PC.
[00:36] <Kamilion> that includes the entire intel Core line
[00:39] <Kamilion> I should also mention, Debian Buster 10.0 just released; which still supports the 32bit pentium 4 platform. I've heard it may be dropped in the 11.0 release; but that's pretty far off in... 2021? something like that.
[00:40] <Kamilion> debian and ubuntu are sibling distros; so it's another option you may consider
[00:41] <Kamilion> and they do have a 32bit lxqt build available, which I've been meaning to try since hearing of the release last weekend
[00:43] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/DSTZI/3853dd548c.png  The 64bit build has been quite nice so far
[00:45] <Kamilion> I could even go so far to say "It still feels like lubuntu to me", after trying and failing to use debian's own lxde packages in 8.x and 9.x (yick, no antialiased fonts!)
[00:45] <cfoch> awesome, the mini image does not recognize the keyboard!
[00:46] <Kamilion> USB keyboard? try unplugging and plugging it back in.
[00:46] <Kamilion> if it's the round one; I dunno what to say
[00:46] <Kamilion> but unplugging it won't help (if it's the round PS/2 style)
[00:47] <cfoch> yes,USB
[00:47] <cfoch> not working
[00:47] <wxl> try different ports?
[00:47] <Kamilion> If it's plugged into a hub or monitor, try plugging it directly into the computer.
[00:47] <wxl> the necessary drivers should be right there in the kernel
[00:48] <cfoch> yes, will try in the worst case with another keyboard I guess
[00:48] <wxl> i'd try different ports first
[00:48] <Kamilion> he could have the dreaded Via USB chip of dread... I hated those things. Never could get them to work right until the PCIExpress era.
[00:49] <Kamilion> and those were one of the biggest reasons why USB boot failed to work in a lot of machines... *grumbles*
[00:50] <Kamilion> I think it was the later Pentium 4 machines that implimented UHCI in the south bridge, and finally brought an end to the UHCI/OHCI struggle
[00:51] <Kamilion> (with USB2.0 being represented by EHCI universally across all controllers, and USB3.0 being represented by XHCI universally across all controllers, chasing after how AHCI destroyed the IDE/SATA aftermarket controllers)
[00:53] <cfoch> trying with a PS2 keyboard and works :)
[00:53] <cfoch> now I wonder if my USB mouse will work
[00:54] <wxl> PS/2 is super reliable. just not hot-swapable.
[00:57] <Kamilion> yeah, i was just thinking outside, and came back in to mention one of those USB to PS/2 purple or green dongles might help if the system still has a PS/2 port available.
[00:57] <cfoch> Do I just enter "Install"?
[00:58] <Kamilion> yeah
[00:58] <cfoch> it blocks for a while... not sure if because trying to fetch available distros or why
[00:58] <Kamilion> it'll first prompt you for language, keyboard, then network setup, grab the packages it needs to handle partitioning and stuff, install the base system, then prompt you for tasks (like lubuntu)
[00:59] <Kamilion> followed by the bootloader install, then a reboot prompt.
[00:59] <Kamilion> off the top of my head
[01:07] <cfoch> it is asking me to create a new user before asking me to select among different distros
[01:07] <Kamilion> ah yeah, forgot about that
[01:07] <Kamilion> part of the base system install.
[01:07] <Kamilion> be a bit of time before you get to the tasksel screen, lemme see if I can locate a screenshot to make you more comfortable.
[01:09] <Kamilion> https://i.stack.imgur.com/Nu44s.jpg
[01:10] <cfoch> oh i see
[01:10] <Kamilion> scroll down to Lubuntu Desktop and hit space, then tab to move to the Continue button.
[01:11] <Kamilion> I generally also select Basic Ubuntu Server and OpenSSH Server, but I ignore all the others.
[01:11] <Kamilion> https://askubuntu.com/questions/153265/what-does-the-basic-ubuntu-server-package-contain-in-software-selection-during
[01:11] <Kamilion> screenshot's from there.
[01:11] <cfoch> it's a computer for an accountant/layer... I do not think he will need Ubuntu Server or OpenSSH
[01:12] <Kamilion> probably not, and anything that IS needed from the list from the server packages, will be installed automatically on demand
[01:12] <Kamilion> OpenSSH will only be needed if you need to remotely manage the system securely from another physical location.
[01:13] <Kamilion> otherwise, you'll probably want the 'unattended-updates' package set to automatically apply security updates.
[01:14] <Kamilion> if I recall correctly, you should get a prompt about that late in the install process.
[01:15] <cfoch> would 15 GB be enough for / ? Only office stuff is intended to be used
[01:16] <Kamilion> yes
[01:16] <Kamilion> my lubuntu installations generally do not exceed 5GB in system data
[01:17] <Kamilion> since this is an older pentium 4, I'm assuming it has around 2GB of ram; there should be no reason to exceed a swap size of 4GB for office applications and light web browsing.
[01:19] <wxl> there *SHOULD* be lubuntu-desktop and lubuntu-core or something like that
[01:21] <Kamilion> if this is a SATA disk below 80GB, there's a good chance that it's nearing the end of it's service life. Once the system's installed, open the disks control panel and check it's SMART data for any red-colored text.
[01:21] <Kamilion> hopefully it should report "Disk is OK."
[01:22] <Kamilion> it's lasted this long; so in theory it'll keep on keeping on if it doesn't overtemperature
[01:23] <Kamilion> but since it's a buisness machine, a backup strategy is highly recommended. And it's not a backup unless it's been successfully restored from -- it's just a mere copy, if it's never seen a restore. ;)
[01:54] <cfoch> hey, how do I know if http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic-updates/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso will install 18.04LTS ?
[01:56] <Kamilion> as it's part of the bionic-updates stream.
 is trojita support calendar also?
 @ctisme [is trojita support calendar also?], nope
 noted
[03:42] <cfoch> well, thanks, folks
[03:42] <cfoch> Lubuntu installed :-)
 is it normal that my bash terminal doesn't log the history command...
 it since 3 weeks ago
[04:39] <wxl> so `history` produces nothing?
 $ history                                                                   │ …     1  sudo apt install -y speedcrunch                                             │ …     2  at                                                                          │ …     3  at 11:46
[04:41] <wxl> dude don't be pasting stuff in here
[04:41] <wxl> you can use pastebinit or something
 then if i press history
 none
[04:41] <wxl> so your answer is "that is correct?"
 not correct
[04:43] <wxl> so `history` DOES do something?
 it only log when the session running but after we create new session the history is gone
[04:45] <wxl> so it does work
[04:45] <wxl> how do you "create a new session?"
[15:44] <heysoundude> Hello all - can someone tell me what I should see when I run dpkg -l | grep linux
[15:45] <heysoundude> mine is quite lengthy and I'm wondering if a little cleanup might be in order to streamline things
[15:46] <apt-ghetto> `sudo apt autoremove` or ` sudo apt autoremove --purge`
[16:07] <mindsout> Hi, does Lubuntu have a feature that lets you check for updates like in Windows 10 or is it automatic?
[16:11] <apt-ghetto> mindsout: I am using always the terminal: `sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade`
[16:13] <apt-ghetto> And, as far as I know, there is an automatic daily check for updates
[16:14] <mindsout> Thanks a lot!
 depends on the version
 actually in 18.10 and 19.04 there isn't an app at this moment
 But we're working on it.
[16:34] <wxl> apt-ghetto: fyi that won't automatically install all updates. see the unattended-upgrades package
[16:35] <apt-ghetto> It will install only the security updates?
[16:36] <wxl> yuuup
[16:36] <heysoundude> I have linux-images that go all the way back to 4.10.0-19
[16:37] <wxl> wow that's quite a collection. congratulations!
[16:37] <wxl> unfortunately i don't think kernels are like pokemon
[16:38] <heysoundude> pokemon?
[16:38] <heysoundude> I don't know that game
[16:39] <wxl> there's a "catch them all" phrase that goes with it
[16:39] <heysoundude> so you're saying leave them be
[16:39] <apt-ghetto> heysoundude: You need help? If yes => `dpkg -l 'linux-[ghi]*' | pastebinit`
[16:39] <wxl> no, i'm saying get rid of them
[16:40] <heysoundude> how far back?
[16:40] <heysoundude> i figure the 4.10 through 4.13 stuff
[16:40] <wxl> you really only need the one you're using
[16:41] <wxl> but if you want to be safe, keep the one before
[16:41] <heysoundude> i Like safe :)
[16:41] <heysoundude> ...that's a lot of typing....
[16:42] <heysoundude> same thing for the -extras ?
[16:44] <mindsout> Hi, what's the point of "desktop 1-4"? Is it for multitasking?
[16:44] <lynorian> mindsout: yes
[16:44] <wxl> yep
[16:46] <heysoundude> was that yep for me, wxl?
[16:46] <wxl> both actually
[16:47] <heysoundude> awesome thanks
[16:50] <heysoundude> the first column when I dpkg -l | grep linux has a 2 letter code:  ii, rc and ri - what do they mean?
[16:50] <heysoundude> which manpage can i look that up on?  grep or dpkg?
[16:50] <wxl> dpkg
[16:51] <wxl> there's two indications: package state and package selection state
[16:51] <wxl> so ii means it's installed and was selected for installation
[16:52] <wxl> oh there's actually three things there i guess
[16:52] <wxl> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
[16:52] <wxl> | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
[16:52] <wxl> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
[16:52] <wxl> it's just that the third one is usually none
[16:57] <heysoundude> sudo apt-get remove linux-image-4.10.0-whatever returned a package not installed...it's tagged with rc, but why is it still listed?
[16:59] <wxl> rc = selected for Removal, but Conf-files are still lingering about
[17:02] <heysoundude> ah!  so I need to hunt those down.  (this is turning into a bunch of work - will it lead to better performance or just a cleaner hard drive?)
[17:03] <wxl> yes
[17:03] <heysoundude> both then...oh boy.  maybe a clean install would be in my best interest?
[17:03] <apt-ghetto> `dpkg -l 'linux-[ihs]*' | sed '/^ii/!d;/'"$(uname -r | sed "s/\([-0-9]*\)-\([^0-9]\+\)/\1/")"'/d;s/^[^ ]* [^ ]* \([^ ]*\).*/\1/;/[0-9]/!d' | tee old_kernels.txt`
[17:04] <apt-ghetto> Should give you a text file with your kernel
[17:05] <apt-ghetto> Check the list and if it contains only kernel you want to remove, then `cat old_kernels.txt | xargs sudo apt purge`
[17:06] <heysoundude> i want the garbage gone, not another system text file, apt-ghetto.  that'll do what I want?
[17:06] <heysoundude> sorry, we were typing at the same time
[17:08] <heysoundude> just to confirm, I need to make a txt file of the unused stuff, and then point to it to get rid of them - right?
[17:08] <apt-ghetto> You can copy&paste the first, long and unreadable command
[17:08] <apt-ghetto> After executing it, you have a new text file
[17:08] <apt-ghetto> You can edit this file with your favourite text editor
[17:09] <apt-ghetto> If the file contains only older kernel, then you can execute the second step: purging them
[17:10] <heysoundude> thank you...wish me luck
[17:10] <apt-ghetto> To check, which is your currently running kernel: `uname -r`
[17:11] <Guest65705> Hi, what type of partitions do you recommend to create? for a solid state disk of 128 GB (MBR or GPT)
[17:11] <wxl> if you want to be pedantic, mbr/gpt don't describe partitions
[17:11] <apt-ghetto> Guest65705: You plan to have a dual boot with Windows?
[17:12] <Guest65705> no, only linux
[17:12] <heysoundude> uname says I'm running 4.15.0-54-generic, the long dpkg command says -4.15.0-52-generic
[17:13] <heysoundude> seems theres not much to clean up
[17:13] <apt-ghetto> Guest65705: Then, I recommend GPT with UEFI
[17:14] <apt-ghetto> heyson
[17:14] <apt-ghetto> heysoundude: Then you have only some config files left
[17:15] <Guest65705> apt-ghetto: I'm not sure if my computer brings UEFI, let me see, thank you very much for your recommendation
[17:15] <heysoundude> the cat command auto-aborted
[17:17] <apt-ghetto> heysoundude: With an error message?
[17:20] <apt-ghetto> Guest65705: If you have a real BIOS (< 2010), then I recommend you MBR, (GPT is part of the UEFI standard)
[17:25] <heysoundude> nope, it simply says Abort at "do you want to continue Y/n"
[17:26] <heysoundude> it said it needed to install something, as well as some suggested packages, then said it would remove some and a new package would be installed....8k of archives required to free 261 MB of space, but it auto-aborted
[17:27] <Guest65705> ok thanks
[17:27] <heysoundude> cat old_kernels.txt | xargs sudo apt purge
[17:27] <heysoundude> Reading package lists... Done
[17:27] <heysoundude> Building dependency tree
[17:27] <heysoundude> Reading state information... Done
[17:27] <heysoundude> The following additional packages will be installed:
[17:27] <heysoundude>   linux-image-unsigned-4.15.0-52-generic
[17:27] <heysoundude> Suggested packages:
[17:30] <heysoundude> I guess I can't copy/paste what happened here for you to see
[17:30] <apt-ghetto> !paste | heysoundude
[17:31] <heysoundude> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/s8fnBZCcm3/
[17:31] <apt-ghetto> If you have only two kernel installed, let them be and execute from time to time: `sudo apt autoremove --purge` which should remove unused packages and older kernel
[17:32] <heysoundude> that's what seems to be the case.  thank you, I'll do that
[19:19] <Guest65705> recommend creating or not creating swap partition on ssd drives
[19:20] <diogenes_> Guest65705, i would create.
[19:22] <Guest65705> diogenes_: Would you create it on a solid state disk in file or partition?
[19:22] <diogenes_> partition.
[19:25] <Guest65705> Ok, 1024 MB will be good?
[19:26] <diogenes_> Guest65705, if you intend to use hibernation, then as much as ram.
[19:28] <Guest65705> diogenes_: How much swap do I recommend if I want to hibernate?
[19:29] <Guest65705> I have 6 GB in RAM
[19:29] <diogenes_> Guest65705, so 6 gb swap then.
[19:31] <Guest65705> so much!?
[19:32] <diogenes_> yes because it has to remember all the running state of the system and write it to swap before hibernating.
[19:33] <Guest65705> Ok, in the previous installation I left 5 GB and sincerely I never saw that I got to use nor 1GB of Swap in heavy tasks.
[19:35] <diogenes_> hehe because you haven't compiled something like qtwebengine, then it will take even 20 GB of swap.
[19:37] <Guest65705> Wow! ok ok excelent heheheheh tanks very much. diogenes_
[19:38] <diogenes_> you're welcome.
[20:25] <mindsout> Hi, can I transfer MP3 files from Lubuntu to my phone?
[20:26] <lynorian> mindsout: what kind of phone  but normally yes pcmanfm does mtp
[20:26] <mindsout> Leagoo T8s
[20:27] <lynorian> mindsout probably but you will need to allow your phone to connect to computer
[20:27] <mindsout> Alright, thanks!