[00:03] <lotuspsychje> good night
[00:20] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not much of a nap there friend :P
[00:20] <lotuspsychje> nop :p
[06:16] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:44] <ducasse> good morning
[06:45] <lordievader> Morning ducasse
[06:45] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[06:46] <ducasse> i'm good, thanks, how are you?
[06:46] <lordievader> Doing good here :)
[06:49] <ducasse> got plans today?
[06:53] <lordievader> Got another student graduating :)
[06:53] <lordievader> Full agenda furthermore
[06:53] <lordievader> How about you?
[06:54] <ducasse> not much, quiet day ahead here
[06:56] <lordievader> 😁
[07:11] <guiverc> ctrl+alt+F4 opens ?? a virtual-terminal??  is that the correct name?  (my mind has gone blank again)
[07:11] <daftykins> TTY
[07:11] <daftykins> *shrug*
[07:12] <guiverc> you & i know what we mean (with TTY) but I'm writing to a user (bug report) & would like to be 'correctish'
[07:13] <guiverc> thanks daftykins
[07:13] <daftykins> np! i'd probably still write TTY but then explain with e.g. (the things you get when you press...) :D
[07:16] <guiverc> i've changed my mind & aren't sending anyway
[07:17] <daftykins> bug is now a feature 8D
[07:18] <guiverc> boo!!  ibm documented bugs & they weren't bugs anymore, that & "this page intentionally left blank" I was never a fan of..  (s390)
[07:21] <daftykins> my exams always had that
[07:22] <guiverc> apologies for the bad memories!
[07:31] <daftykins> hehe nah you're fine
[07:31] <daftykins> i always wondered what they were thinking
[07:36] <EoflaOE> hello everyone
[07:36] <lordievader> Morning EoflaOE
[07:37] <EoflaOE> good morning lordievader
[07:37] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[07:37] <EoflaOE> Doing fine. And you?
[07:37] <lordievader> Doing good here :)
[07:38] <EoflaOE> Nice.
[07:42] <ducasse> hi guiverc
[07:45] <guiverc> G'day ducasse :)
[07:45] <ducasse> guiverc: all well, i hope?
[07:46] <guiverc> & G'day EoflaOE , yep all good thank ducasse, how about you?
[07:47] <EoflaOE> Thanks guiverc. And good day to you. Is everything well?
[07:47] <ducasse> guiverc: no complaints, thanks :)
[07:48] <EoflaOE> hi ducasse
[07:48] <ducasse> \o EoflaOE
[07:48] <EoflaOE> How are you doing?
[07:48] <ducasse> all good, you too, i hope?
[07:49] <EoflaOE> All good
[10:59] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:17] <marcoagpinto> Hello!
[11:21] <JimBuntu> Greetings marcoagpinto !
[11:26] <marcoagpinto> greetings JimBuntu!
[11:26] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:27] <BluesKaj> hey marcoagpinto
[11:29] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!
[11:29] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:29] <marcoagpinto> this morning I went to Lisbon to get my medical leave for the weekend I didn't go to work
[11:29] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:30] <marcoagpinto> days 3 and 4 of August
[11:52] <marcoagpinto> two months for 19.10!
[11:52] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:52] <marcoagpinto> then 20.04
[11:52] <marcoagpinto> I am so curious what 20.04 will bring
[11:55] <marcoagpinto> I am almost sure 20.04 will bring Kernel 5?
[11:55] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:56] <marcoagpinto> since it is a LTS release and needs to be stable
[11:56] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:56] <JimBuntu> sadness marcoagpinto , sadness... and a lot of updates for people to perform :-(  Meh, necessary evil
[11:57] <JimBuntu> I can't wait for the jokes around 20.10... needs to be named 'A Space Odyssey'
[11:57] <marcoagpinto> ohhhhhh
[11:57] <marcoagpinto> good name
[11:57] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:57] <marcoagpinto> well thought
[11:58] <JimBuntu> They could have SO MUCh fun around that... special background, HAL... everything
[11:58] <marcoagpinto> can't 20.04 bring a 512-bit OS?
[11:58] <JimBuntu> I mean, it's a point 10 release anyway
[11:58] <marcoagpinto> OS=file system*
[11:58] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:58] <marcoagpinto> an ext5 or something?
[11:58] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:58] <JimBuntu> 512, why stop there... 640-bit
[11:59] <marcoagpinto> well, in a few years the servers will have 1 TB SSD drives
[11:59] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:59] <JimBuntu> The time has come for Webuntu instead of Ubuntu ;p
[11:59] <marcoagpinto> so, 512-bit makes sense
[11:59] <marcoagpinto> 1 PT
[11:59] <marcoagpinto> Petabytes
[11:59] <marcoagpinto> sorry for the typos, my brain is toasted
[12:00] <JimBuntu> no worries, my bagel is toasted
[12:00] <marcoagpinto> there is already at least 100 TB SSDs for servers
[12:00] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:01] <JimBuntu> sheesh. I can't say I am surprised by this though.  The cost is probably nice and high too.
[12:01] <marcoagpinto> yes
[12:01] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:01] <marcoagpinto> but in 5 years the prices will drop
[12:01] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:01] <BluesKaj> wonder about X11 being replaced by Wayland or at least optional
[12:01] <marcoagpinto> like the normal Samsung SSDs have dropped a lot
[12:01] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:02] <JimBuntu> cyclic things BluesKaj ... if it happens on any long scale, X11 will improve and then it will go back to them dominating
[12:02] <JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, due to technological advancements, SSD costs are supposed to start dropping fast by the end of the year, once the tech makes it into full production, at least... that's what I read
[12:02] <BluesKaj> Wayland seems more difficult on KDE/Plasma than Gnome
[12:05] <BluesKaj> SSDs should be down to $100US for 1TB before I'll consider upgrading from my Samsung EVO 256GB
[12:06] <BluesKaj> the 1TB outboard usb spinner does the job for media files atm
[12:10] <JimBuntu> I'm in the market for a bigger SSD, or I might simply go with one of those uSD cards to reduce the shipping costs to insanely low amounts. Either way, I think I need to make up my mind today and get it ordered.
[12:11] <pragmaticenigma> but they'll be cheaper tomorrow ;-)
[12:13] <BluesKaj> uSD card?
[12:13] <BluesKaj> micro sd ?
[12:14] <JimBuntu> yeah, micro
[12:14] <BluesKaj> JimBuntu, ^
[12:14] <BluesKaj> they wear out fast after too many writes IME
[12:15] <JimBuntu> Sorry, forgot which channel I was in BluesKaj , the micro is for that thing in the other channel where I literally mail data to someone
[12:15] <BluesKaj> ok'
[12:15] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:16] <marcoagpinto> my Samsung 500 GB 850 cost me some 200-250 EUR a year or two ago
[12:16] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:16] <marcoagpinto> now they are at ~100 EUR on Amazon UK
[12:16] <JimBuntu> Mine was like $100 USD not long ago, I think I got the 128GB for something like $30
[12:18] <marcoagpinto> does anyone know the life-time of standard HDD servers?
[12:18] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:18] <marcoagpinto> just wondering
[12:18] <BluesKaj> I went thru 3 microsd cards on my rpi3 already so i transferred the / partition to a usb hdd and the sd just contains the boot file
[12:19] <BluesKaj> think the microsd is kaput again since the rpi3 no longer boots
[12:20] <BluesKaj> but I seldom use it anyway so it's no real loss
[12:21] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: Years ago I too had problems with microSD cards for my MP3 player
[12:21] <marcoagpinto> the files on them would get corrupt
[12:22] <BluesKaj> yeah, they're unreliable
[12:22] <marcoagpinto> but my last MP3 player comes with 8 GB storage, so I no longer need cards
[12:22] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:22] <JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, I would have to guess that it really, really depends on utilization. Specs for most hard drives are available though. I do not have good info for 'in general' though
[12:22] <marcoagpinto> but the software is chinese and it sucks
[12:22] <marcoagpinto> JimBuntu: for example: Facebook?
[12:22] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:23] <marcoagpinto> just wondering so that I could compare with SSDs in 5 years
[12:23] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:23] <marcoagpinto> ahhh... every time my MP3 players gets damaged and I buy a new one, the software is always the same, even if the brand changes
[12:24] <marcoagpinto> and it doesn't accept UTF-8 filenames, so all musics get corrupted names
[12:25] <JimBuntu> sorry marcoagpinto , I don't have any friends at Facebook. Had a similar discussion with a friend at Google, but they said it was basically a constant stream of replacing drives and systems :/
[12:25] <marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhh
[12:26] <BluesKaj> lesson, don't buy Chinese software
[12:26] <JimBuntu> Google also did/do run their data servers pretty hot though, much warmer than most, so that *might* contribute to more failures of equipment.
[12:26] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: I don't buy Chinese software. All MP3 players in Portugal seem to use it
[12:26] <marcoagpinto> at least the cheaper ones
[12:27]  * JimBuntu sends marcoagpinto a nice MP3 player from the USA... of course, made in China though ;p
[12:27] <marcoagpinto> JimBuntu: >:)
[12:27] <BluesKaj>  I don't own a mp3 player so...
[12:28] <marcoagpinto> When I go to Lisbon I usually take the player with me
[12:28] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:28] <JimBuntu> I no longer have any device specially built for MP3 playback, well... I am sure I have at least 1 laying around somewhere, but I don't use one any more
[12:28] <BluesKaj> just listen to cds or FM radio in my old car :-)
[12:28] <JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, are such devices 'popular' in your land?
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> JimBuntu: yes
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> 20 EUR or so
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> plus 15 EUR ensurance if it breaks
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:29] <JimBuntu> oh wow. Somewhat inexpensive too.
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> or something like that
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> so, if it brakes, I buy a new one
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> the ensurance costs about the same as a new one
[12:29] <marcoagpinto> breaks*
[12:29] <JimBuntu> Around here, the tablet craze has taken over.
[12:30] <JimBuntu> or the 'phablet' craze.
[12:30] <BluesKaj> mp3 audio is awful to my ears
[12:30] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj: convert the songs to 320 kbp or above
[12:30] <marcoagpinto> and get good headphones
[12:31] <BluesKaj> it's ok for voice, but not music
[12:31] <marcoagpinto> :)
[12:31] <JimBuntu> BluesKaj, you didn't spend enough time next to huge speakers cranked up. Now you suffer from poor audio quality while the rest of us yell 'what?'
[12:33] <BluesKaj> oh I have a dropout in my ears at 6Khz then it goes back up to normal levels on the frequency spectrum
[12:34] <BluesKaj> I've spent a lot of time near big guitar amps over the years, but I used stuff cotton in them when we were gigging
[12:34] <BluesKaj> used to
[12:35] <JimBuntu> I was/am stupid though BluesKaj , all of those gigs I set up... with stupid young me sitting right on top of huge speakers enjoying the free show.
[12:36] <BluesKaj> when you're young you're invincible :-)
[12:36] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[12:37] <marcoagpinto> like when I was a kid... I would place a "Napalm Death" CD on the stereo and would turn the volume to the maximum :)
[12:37] <marcoagpinto> so that the neighbours would hear it
[12:37] <marcoagpinto> :p
[12:38] <marcoagpinto> lol
[12:38] <marcoagpinto> only crap I have done
[12:38] <BluesKaj> nice way way to blow tweeters
[12:38] <BluesKaj> clipping amps
[12:39] <BluesKaj> oops, repeating myself again again
[12:39] <pragmaticenigma> echo echo echo
[12:40] <JimBuntu> echoooooo echoooooo echooooooo
[12:41] <BluesKaj> usually 60% volume on a preamp stage is anough to drive an amp to full power
[12:41] <BluesKaj> enough even
[12:43] <BluesKaj> at line level
[12:44] <BluesKaj> and sometimes to little power is worse than too much
[15:39] <bobjunga> anyone know what window manager disco uses by default? I dont recognize any in the process list of my install. I am using the default (non-wayland) session
[15:45] <bobjunga> second question: I see two systemd processes in the process list. systemd(1) at the top as I expected but then there is another. Is that a snap thing?  Where can I find information on it? googling has not paid off
[15:58] <lotuspsychje> bobjunga: not sure what you are trying to do?
[16:08] <pragmaticenigma> bobjunga: There are Desktop Managers, Desktop Environments, and Compositors ... that make up what a person might perceive as the window manager
[16:08] <pragmaticenigma> What are you digging for, and what is your concern?
[16:08] <bobjunga> well, I am research and learning about the display architecture and X, wayland
[16:10] <bobjunga> I was playing around with making a "Xepher :1"  X server and adding various components like a win manager and then gnome-panel, etc...
[16:11] <bobjunga> this is on a fresh 19.04.   I installed metacity to and it worked on the :1 X server but I wanted to see which in manager I was running in 19.04 and try that one
[16:12] <bobjunga> but I could not find any of the ones I know about -- mutter, metacity, etc...
[16:12] <bobjunga> so I wonder if in gnome3/ubuntu the window manager is built into something else
[16:14] <pragmaticenigma> bobjunga: Gnome-shell has it's compositor embedded in the Desktop Environment. There is no separate window compositor (e.g. Metacity)
[16:14] <bobjunga> and then while looking at pstree output for the win manager, I found it a little disconcerting that there was a second systemd and would like to understand why
[16:15] <bobjunga> pragmaticenigma: hmm.. I thought that the compositor was separate -- (an X extension and built into wayland)
[16:17] <bobjunga> but anyway, it would make sense if gnome-shell provides the dock and top panel and the win manager functionality
[16:17] <pragmaticenigma> bobjunga: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Shell#Software_architecture
[16:18] <pragmaticenigma> The direction was Gnome is trying to make their desktop more customizable by use of extensions, which are easily written as JavaScript programs that Mutter can render
[16:20] <bobjunga> ok. its starting to make sense. I had read that wiki page yesterday but back then, the distinction between the window manager and compositor and descktop shell did not mean enough to me.
[16:23] <bobjunga> interesting. I cant run a second copy of gnome-shell on display :1, apparently because it registers with dbus and there can be only one.  (error:  rg.gnome.Shell already exists on bus and --replace not specified)
[16:25] <bobjunga> so because gnome3 is monolithic in this respect, a person cant choose to use a tiling win manager like awesome with the gnome dock and top bar and extensions
[16:28] <bobjunga> pragmaticenigma: I like the gnome3 extensions but why is that not a huge security concern. Package in the official ubuntu repository go through some approval process run by canonical but it seems that anyone can post a gnome extension to their website
[16:30] <pragmaticenigma> bobjunga: If you want tiling, then use a environment built for that purpose. You wouldn't use a screw driver to hammer a nail, it's possible to do, but not very effective. What I'm trying to say is, why force Gnome-Shell to behave a particular way it wasn't designed to work in.
[16:32] <pragmaticenigma> bobjunga: As far as users installing extensions as they please, it's on the user to research and verify the applications, extensions and other features they install won't harm their system. Ubuntu itself comes with no guarantee that it won't break or harm your system. A best effort is made, and some extensions are avaialble in the Ubuntu software repos for more common usage or for Ubuntu to achieve a particular feature set.
[16:34] <pragmaticenigma> bobjunga: One case for the extensions is Gnome developers are removing the ability to treat the desktop as a folder, meaning anything you place in ~/Desktop will no longer be displayed if you minimize all the windows. There is, however, an extension that can restore that functionality.
[16:42] <bobjunga> pragmaticenigma: thanks for your help in understanding gnome3 arch:)