[11:43] <wolfger> morning
[11:45] <cmaloney> good am
[12:14] <jrwren> good morning. what is new and awesome in the world of ubuntu today?
[13:02] <cmaloney> ummm
[13:12] <wolfger> Ubuntu still exists? :-D  Oh, right, that's the channel I'm in, isn't it?
[13:13] <cmaloney> Funnily I think we no longer have any current Canonical Employees in the channel today
[13:13] <cmaloney> I sent a note to Rick asking if everything was OK, but I suspect it went to spam (I don't have DKIM set up on my mailserver)
[13:14]  * cmaloney remembers the glory days when we had a bunch
[13:16] <cmaloney> ah well.
[13:17] <jrwren> rick left canonical?
[13:18] <jrwren> i must have forgotten!
[13:19] <cmaloney> He's not in channel
[13:19] <cmaloney> That's what I was referring to
[13:21] <jrwren> oh! lol.
[13:22] <jrwren> i guess now is a good time to talk about how terrible canonical is doing then eh?
[13:22] <jrwren> :)
[13:22] <cmaloney> I'm sure something will pan out at some point
[13:22] <cmaloney> Maybe it'll be Wayland. :)
[13:23] <cmaloney> Maybe it'll be Ubuntu Touch
[13:23] <jrwren> i don't think it will be either of those things.
[13:23] <cmaloney> I think those are already dead. :)
[13:24] <jrwren> wayland is alive and kicking. Mir is dead
[13:24] <cmaloney> Oh, right. Mir was the canonical also-ran
[13:25] <jrwren> i'd have thought it is something on the server & enterprise side, but i'm never right about what succeeds in that space
[13:25] <cmaloney> I'm sure snapd will be awesome when nobody is maintaining those packages anymore
[13:25] <cmaloney> and when .deb packages are more recent than snapd packages
[13:25] <cmaloney> Me either
[13:26] <cmaloney> All I know is that it'll be more convoluted than anything I can come up with, but there will be good reasons for it
[13:31] <jrwren> ugh, snapd... so bad.
[13:31] <jrwren> if I were rich, I'd hire an intern college student to write a snap to deb re-packager, because that really wouldn't be that difficult.
[13:34] <cmaloney> Yeah
[13:35] <cmaloney> Thing is it does solve a problem but it does so in a really silly way
[13:36] <cmaloney> and unless someone actively supports those packages then they're going to be even worse bitrot than normal channels
[13:38] <cmaloney> I had someone pop in from Canonical asking me about snapd for tootstream, and then made a package (likely for some GSoC project). That was two years ago. I haven't heard anything since.
[13:42] <rick_h> yay it works
[13:42] <wolfger> \o/
[13:42] <rick_h> howdy party people
[13:42] <cmaloney> rick_h: Welcome back!!! :)
[13:44] <jrwren> welcome back rick.
[13:44] <jrwren> we talked about you behind your back. don't check the logs. :p
[13:44] <cmaloney> rHeh
[13:44] <rick_h> meh, I can't even stay connected
[13:44] <cmaloney> Now we have to be nice to Canonical again.
[13:44] <rick_h> how am I going to check logs ;P
[13:44] <cmaloney> ubuntulog2 might have some
[13:44] <cmaloney> though I think that's been broken for a while now
[13:44] <rick_h> lol "says the guy in ubuntu-us-mi channel"
[13:46] <cmaloney> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/09/09/
[13:46] <cmaloney> Hah, apparently it hasn't caught up. :)
[14:49] <mrgoodcat> ubuntulog2 electric boogaloo
[14:50]  * mrgoodcat spies googleusercontent.com
[14:50] <mrgoodcat> rick_h confirmed google bot
[14:50] <rick_h> mrgoodcat:  ? I'm a bot now?
[14:51] <mrgoodcat> rick_h (~ubuntu@177.33.185.35.bc.googleusercontent.com) has joined #ubuntu-us-mi
[14:51] <mrgoodcat>                                        ^
[14:51] <rick_h> oooh, fun
[14:52] <jayis> I have applied to every job I am remotely qualified for at Canonical but they said no :(
[14:53] <jrwren> jayis: :(
[14:53] <rick_h> jayis:  sorry, any direct feedback on what folks find you could do better with?
[14:54] <jayis> no lol, most of them were rejected at the resume review phase
[14:54] <jayis> I even used Ubuntu font
[14:54] <mrgoodcat> it is a nice font
[14:54] <jayis> yeah, I actually use it normally anyways
[14:54] <cmaloney> Should have used DejaVu instead. :)
[14:55] <cmaloney> (I like the Ubuntu fonts)
[14:55] <jayis> is there a IExpectFailure font
[14:55] <mrgoodcat> always a bummer to get rejections with no feedback
[14:55] <jrwren> use an expensive adobe font
[14:55] <rick_h> hah, I can honestly say the font has never become part of hiring criteria but good default to run with
[14:55] <cmaloney> I've applied a few times. I figured they just got a pool of talent that appealed more than my LaTeX font-resume. :)
[14:56] <rick_h> jayis:  do you always supply a cover letter?
[14:56] <jayis> rick_h: I do
[14:56] <rick_h> jayis:  good stuff, always a good call to have a nice cover letter to get some eyeball attention
[14:56] <jayis> i really did all the stuff you're supposed to do to show you care, contacted recruiter
[14:56] <rick_h> jayis:  well if there's a particular app you've applied to I can always tap the person on the shoulder if I can tell who the hiring manager is
[14:57] <rick_h> jayis:  but I can't see other folks applicants so can't look and provide any direct advice unfortunately
[14:57] <cmaloney> recruiter?
[14:57] <rick_h> jayis:  but I will say it's tough and only getting tougher to be honest. There's been a big push over the last two years at upping our hiring game
[14:58]  * cmaloney mumbles something about hiring not being the issue. :)
[14:58] <jayis> cool, I will hold off hammering their postings for a while and just try and get more experience
[14:58] <jayis> cmaloney: yeah a lot of online resources said to contact the HR recruiter people to show you're really interested
[14:58] <rick_h> jayis:  yea, basically folks are looking for a solid 5yr ish of high level experience, degree, and as much interesting visible demonstration of skill (OSS/etc) as possible
[14:59] <jayis> jeez, yeah I am not there
[14:59] <mrgoodcat> i graduated college less than a year ago so still got a way to go lol
[14:59] <mrgoodcat> i'm transitioning onto an OSS team though in my company :)
[14:59] <jayis> CS degree from Wayne State, 2 years software engineer at Ford, and not I am at a place in Livonia called WorkForce Software as a "Cloud Operations Engineer"
[14:59] <mrgoodcat> going to be working on open telemetry
[14:59] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: nice!
[15:00] <rick_h> mrgoodcat:  cool stuff
[15:00] <mrgoodcat> i'm pretty excited. nothing is official yet but it is a really good opportunity for me
[15:00] <rick_h> jayis:  yea that's a good start. Ford isn't really thought of as living on the newer edge of fun stuff so you'll really have to describe how that work is interesting and shows understanding modern distributed systems and the like
[15:01] <jayis> rick_h: yeah it's a shitshow almost everywhere
[15:01] <cmaloney> Yeah, Ford is one of the leading-edge of the trailing edge of technology in automotive
[15:01] <jrwren> jayis: why do you want to work for Canonical?
[15:01] <rick_h> have to be aware of those perceptions and be ready to battle them head on to get past it
[15:01] <jayis> I left to escape the 401k salary trap that Ford is
[15:01] <rick_h> sorry, /me feels like my help is "do a ton of work" but just sharing my insider insight a little bit
[15:02] <jayis> jrwren: I have used Ubuntu for so long and just want a job I can learn and grow in but live in metro Detroit
[15:03] <jrwren> jayis: there are lots of places in SEMI where you can do that. Why Canonical?
[15:03] <cmaloney> It's OK to say " Because I think it's cool"
[15:04] <jayis> I haven't gotten the impression there are many places in SEMI with those opportunities, honestly
[15:04] <jrwren> oh wow, thankfully that has not been my experience.
[15:04] <cmaloney> Ann Arbor has a boat-ton of tech companies
[15:04] <rick_h> Yea, I felt like detroit has some up and coming stuff.
[15:04] <jayis> right, that's an hour back and forth a day for me
[15:04] <jrwren> yeah, I guess being in Ann Arbor for 15yrs has spoiled me.
[15:04] <cmaloney> and a few that have filtered into the rest of the area
[15:04] <jayis> I was actually in AA with Ford
[15:04] <rick_h> though it's honestly a feeling off a couple of data points of folks I knew
[15:05] <jrwren> jayis: the Ford office here in AA where they do all teh agile stuff? You left that? too much scrum kool-aide for ya?
[15:05] <cmaloney> jayis: Do you attend any meetings in the area?
[15:05] <cmaloney> God, Scrum can eat something unpleasant
[15:05] <jrwren> Did I post here about our first A2 Go meeting tomorrow night?
[15:06] <jayis> jrwren: yep, it's one of the hardest places to get to in Ford, and honestly they had more engineers than they needed
[15:06] <jayis> cmaloney: nah, I have been to MUG more than a few times and stuff though
[15:07] <cmaloney> MUG is a good start but you might want to explore some of the developer groups in the area
[15:07] <cmaloney> at the very least you can make some connections with people who might know more about the types of places you're interested in
[15:07] <jayis> I agree
[15:07] <jayis> I can definitely improve in the Detroit networking department
[15:08] <jayis> appreciate all your perspectives
[15:08] <cmaloney> np. We've been there. I spent too long in automotive and while it was good for a formative career it really is its own beast
[15:08] <cmaloney> kind of like working for the govt.
[15:08] <rick_h> yea, I got my first big break by knowing someone at MUG
[15:09] <rick_h> it's one of those things that the more you network/go to things the better position you're in for sure
[15:09] <cmaloney> (comparing notes with folks who have worked in govt.)
[15:09] <rick_h> ouch, it's not that bad is it?
[15:09] <rick_h> at least we're more fun?
[15:09] <cmaloney> automotive has its own downsides
[15:10] <jrwren> maybe you are so good that you've outgrown the SEMI opportunities. I mean, I just assumed you still have a lot to "learn and grow" but maybe you are already 20X develop who knows all programming langauges adn tools and can cloud native everything and the only places you can grow and learn more is at a FAANG. Are you ready to move to a coast?
[15:10] <cmaloney> usually trailing-end tech, lack of understanding of the issues, etc.
[15:10] <cmaloney> jrwren: Way to tickle my imposter symdrome while I work on trying to get a damn Django template to behave. ;)
[15:10] <jrwren> depends on the gvement work? does University work count as government work? :)
[15:11] <rick_h> jrwren:  lol
[15:11] <cmaloney> SChools are their own beasts
[15:11] <cmaloney> I don't consider schools govt. work, even though they're extremly political
[15:11] <rick_h> meh, they're kissing cousins for sure
[15:11] <cmaloney> you can find some enlightened folks in schools
[15:11] <cmaloney> Oh, definitely related
[15:12] <cmaloney> You can suffer in academia as well as govt. or automotive.
[15:12] <_stink_> haha, suffering is the theme.
[15:12] <_stink_> i like it
[15:13] <jrwren> life is suffering. The end of suffering is when you remove your greed, ignorance, attachements and desire.
[15:14] <jrwren> ;)
[15:14] <cmaloney> ommmmmm
[15:14] <rick_h> hmmm, removing desire seems problematic
[15:14] <cmaloney> Nah, you just figure out which desires are the good ones
[15:14] <cmaloney> and then go with that
[15:15] <jrwren> it is fundamental buddhism, half a billion people can't be wrong, can they? :)
[15:18] <jrwren> https://www.meetup.com/A2Go-Golang-developer-meetup/events/263967933/
[15:23] <jayis> jrwren: was the 20X dev thing a joke?
[15:25] <jrwren> jayis: no? i mean, maybe? I don't know you at all, so for all I know your next learning and growing steps really might be beyond what most locales can provide.
[15:25] <jrwren> depending on what it is that you want to learn and grow.
[15:25] <jayis> usually when I have heard that term used it was sarcasm, got it
[15:25] <cmaloney> Also because we're now looking for 20x developers because 10x are boring
[15:26] <jayis> lol right
[15:27] <jrwren> so the 20x thing was a joke, yes, but the point of the message, not at all. The point is: are you looking for something that exists at all?
[15:30] <jayis> I just wanna work with OSS to solve interesting problems. In fact, I am sure it exists in SEMI. I should ammend my statement earlier about SEMI not having these jobs. I am sure we do. Just not necessarily on indeed.com and through my connections so far.
[15:30] <cmaloney> That's why meeting other developers is so important
[15:30] <cmaloney> those jobs don't tend to show up on job boards
[15:30] <jayis> right
[15:30] <cmaloney> also, check out stackoverflow jobs.
[15:31] <jayis> I will
[15:31] <cmaloney> There are some remote job opportunities on there.
[15:32] <jrwren> so... nearly all of java and .net are open source now. By definition any java or .NET job with interesting problems would be one who "work with OSS to solve intresting problems" :)
[15:32] <jayis> haha yeah it was vague, I know
[15:33] <cmaloney> jrwren: You are evil.
[15:34] <jrwren> am I?
[15:34] <jrwren> Java and .NET solve a lot of very interesting problems... don't they?
[15:35] <cmaloney> eeeevil
[15:36] <jayis> I applied for a job once to use embedded Linux to monitor underground water movement
[15:38] <jayis> the idea was to drill deep holes and place pipes to get water to drain faster in areas that don't have good drainage
[15:38] <jrwren> interesting!
[15:38] <jayis> that's my bar for interested OSS work lol
[15:38] <jayis> interesting*
[16:38] <jrwren> https://twitter.com/XOrgFoundation/status/1170772788992282624?s=20
[16:38] <jrwren> so... 15yrs ago remote-X basically died :(
[16:39] <jrwren> and nothing has worked as well for remote apps since. :(
[16:39] <cmaloney> I still use remote X apps at home
[16:39] <cmaloney> they mostly work, save for video games
[16:40] <cmaloney> themes don't work, but that's to be expected
[16:43] <jrwren> they got rid of LBX extension and nothing worked as well for me since.
[16:50] <rick_h> jrwren:  what apps were you looking to run remote like that?
[16:52] <jrwren> pretty much everything except the shell/desktop env whatever you call it.
[16:52] <jrwren> so... browser, email, IM.
[16:52] <jrwren> I guess not anything audio.
[16:52] <jrwren> I used to do it all the time, then the upgrade, and nothing worked. It was the end of an era.
[16:53] <rick_h> yea, just curious what the gap was any more. I know it's been a long time since I had a use for it and hadn't thought about it for a long time tbh
[17:19] <cmaloney> Weird. I haven't had the same issues as recent as Ubuntu 18.04
[17:51] <mrgoodcat> jayis: are you currently looking for a new job?
[17:51] <mrgoodcat> or just applying places and seeing what comes up?
[18:22] <jayis> mrgoodcat: I am
[20:51] <jrwren> anyone know devicemapper and stripe cache size? apparently the old md-N means of setting it in /sys/block is gone. changed somewhere along the way from 2.6.X to 5.0.X
[20:52] <jrwren> I just made a RAID5 volume and it is very slow at writes. All of the tuning guides I find are for old enough kernels that they are wrong.
[21:04] <jrwren>  /proc/mdstat is empty in modern linux using dm instead of md.
[21:04] <cmaloney> ouch
[21:05] <cmaloney> Wonder why that changed
[21:21] <jrwren> !!! I think this is what I need: https://www.reox.at/blog/posts/set_stripe_cache_on_lvm_raid/
[21:21] <jrwren> not so much newer linux being my problem as using LVM instead of md.
[21:25] <jrwren> much better. YAY!
[21:29] <cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I was going to suggest, but deferred to you knowing better. :)