=== lotus|i5 is now known as lotuspsychje [06:27] Good morning [07:43] hey [08:14] Morning marcoagpinto [08:14] morning [08:16] How are you doing marcoagpinto ? [08:17] well, right now I am feeling fine, and you? [08:17] :) [08:17] Doing good here [11:38] guys?! What's with the "Software Updater" app in 19.04? We have to search for it manually... it sucks [11:38] you dont have the update icon? [11:38] lotuspsychje: only the "Live Patch" [11:39] I have to insert in the search box the name [11:39] "software updater" [11:39] marcoagpinto: type in terminal: update-manager [11:40] well, I am updating right now [11:40] I will do it when it finishes :) [11:40] some 5-10 minutes or so [11:40] you are updating with update manager without update-manager? [11:40] what? [11:41] yeah what :p [11:41] I went to the application store or whatever and typed manually "software updater" and it showed the icon [11:41] so, I clicked on it [11:41] but in all Ubuntu versions it would appear there automatically, no need to type it by hand [11:42] marcoagpinto: are you saying your system didnt have update-manager installed by default? [11:42] !info update-manager disco [11:42] lotuspsychje: What I am saying is that its icon doesn't appear in the apps list [11:42] :) [11:42] update-manager (source: update-manager): GNOME application that manages apt updates. In component main, is optional. Version 1:19.04.5 (disco), package size 538 kB, installed size 1038 kB [11:43] hmm optional indeed [11:43] but it is there [11:43] !info update-manager bionic [11:43] update-manager (source: update-manager): GNOME application that manages apt updates. In component main, is optional. Version 1:18.04.11.10 (bionic), package size 537 kB, installed size 1037 kB [11:43] weird.. [11:44] yes, it has useless apps there and this important one isn't shown [11:44] marcoagpinto: did you check software&updates icon if its integrated? [11:45] lotuspsychje: give me a few minutes as it is downloading and installing the updates [11:45] :) [11:45] first it had "unattend updates blah blah" [11:49] well, "software and updates" is missing too [11:49] it only shows the "live patch" icon [11:49] :) [11:49] lotuspsychje: ^^ [11:50] lotuspsychje!!!!! [11:50] guess what? [11:50] it had two circles in the left part of the screen... and clicking in it, it shows another page of apps [11:50] and "Software Updater" is there [11:51] :(((((((((( [11:51] only now I noticed the two circles [11:51] right part of the screen* [12:15] Hey folks [12:18] BluesKaj: Hey [12:18] hey marcoagpinto [14:25] Hello everyone [14:27] \o [14:42] EoflaOE! [14:43] Hello marcoagpinto [14:43] Hello! [14:43] >:) [14:44] dad is waiting for the TV repair guy to come :) meanwhile he is napping [14:46] what's wrong with it? [14:46] it has a black horizontal line in the middle of the screen [14:46] :) [14:47] from one edge to the other [14:49] ah that's not a good sign [14:49] :) [14:49] usually they just say the whole panel's gone and nothing can be done as it'd be a write-off [14:50] the two-year warranty ends this month [14:50] :) [14:50] so, it happened exactly when it was going to end [14:50] classic [14:54] guys?! Have you read about the 10th generation of Intel CPUs? [14:54] they say it is 2x faster or so, but they come with half the GHz of the previous generation [14:54] :) [14:55] so, they are two times faster but two times less GHz? [14:55] :) [14:55] 1,1 GHz [14:55] :) [14:55] they must be kidding [14:55] (regarding mobile CPUs) [14:56] the numbers you're quoting are 100% false [14:56] what? [14:56] how? [14:56] I read it in Intel's site? [14:56] the 2x? link it [14:57] ahhhh [14:57] :) [14:57] well, it was there when it said "10th gen processors are almost here blah blah" [14:57] :) [14:57] or something like that [14:57] the only claims i've seen them make are the standard ~14% improvement over skylake, which was 6th gen [14:57] ohhhhhhh :(((( [14:57] and the AI? [14:58] and improved graphic speed? [15:00] i'm not their marketing :) [15:02] Buaaaaaaaa [15:02] I can't find it [15:02] :( [15:03] and why are they releasing 6-core CPUs at 1,1 GHz? [15:03] it seems a joke :( [15:04] there are many different tiers denoted by the ending letter after the model name, so it pretty much points out how useless it is when someones says for example "i have an i7" [15:04] because... which of the 10 generations is it? which form factor? which model? no two are born alike [15:05] :( [15:08] "With approximately 2.5x accelerated AI performance1, approximately 2x graphics performance2, nearly 3x faster wireless speeds" [15:08] https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/processors/core/i7-processors.html [15:09] lately they seem to be designing these things with more cores than the cooling hardware in, say, ultrabooks can even keep cool... so they're more about throwing more cores in for bursty loads, but they can't handle sustained load [15:09] maybe AI accelarated performance isn't CPU speed :( [15:09] I guess I read it wrong, sorry for it [15:09] ;) [15:11] i7-10710U - 6 cores - 1.10 GHz :(((((((((( [15:13] even my Atom 10.1'' laptop had 1,6 GHz in 2012? [15:14] but clock speed isn't everything... [15:14] if the IPC or instructions per clock of that model i7 10th gen is higher (which it will be, by a lot) than an Atom, it'll destroy it [15:16] ohhhhhhhh [15:16] :((((( [15:17] Can anyone tell me if the Intel Core i7 10th gen is only for mobile devces like laptops? Or will it be released for desktops? [15:17] desktop will come eventually but they keep having process problems so it takes time [15:17] and I am scared about the 10 nm process [15:17] I read that in the past try tried and it had issues [15:17] :( [15:17] try tried=they tried* [15:18] Thanks daftykins [15:19] daftykins: Where do I find the IPC values? [15:19] :) [15:19] I am now curious [15:20] i don't think it's a metric they commonly throw around [15:20] ohhhhhhhh :(((((((((( [15:20] obviously every task is going to be different [15:38] daftykins: https://chipsite.pt/sk-intel-2066/23109-intel-core-i9-9900x-35ghz-5032037146371.html [15:38] this is what I would like to see in a laptop [15:40] very bad idea [15:40] what?! why?! [15:40] :) [15:41] a 9th generation CPU [15:41] i9 [15:41] even the i9s that are in laptops are bad ideas [15:41] why? [15:41] they can't be cooled properly in the small spaces, so they throttle themselves [15:41] I noticed that the stores that were selling laptops with i9s no longer sell them [15:41] (reduce clock speed to counteract heat) === sveta_ is now known as Sveta [15:56] What is the tdp of that thing? [15:58] lordievader: I don't have a clue... maybe Intel's site has it? [15:59] 165 W [15:59] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189124/intel-core-i9-9900x-x-series-processor-19-25m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html [15:59] maybe my T4200 computer consumes more? [15:59] :) [15:59] since it is from 2009? [16:00] no [16:01] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/37251/intel-pentium-processor-t4200-1m-cache-2-00-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html [16:01] ohhhh.... [16:01] You're gonna run out of battery before the thing is even booted [16:01] 35 W [16:02] I thought my CPU was very old so it would consume a lot of power... [16:02] only 35 W [16:03] Compare that to an idle wattage that some laptops have of ~3 watts [16:04] Yes this is comparing apples and pears... [16:11] plus it's thermal design power so it's truthfully only how much heat it kicks out, not strictly the power it consumes - though they'd be close [16:12] also that'd only be going full tilt, and the only 3W laptops i know of are calculators in terms of performance... [16:14] 3W idle != 3W TDP [16:14] That T4200 is also a laptop CPU, which are typically low power versions. [16:14] If you want really low power, you want ARM, not x86. [16:14] Like I was saying comparing apples and pears [16:15] 🤔is the English version apples and oranges? [16:16] Ooh, the Pinebook Pro has a final price! $200 USD. That's really cheap. [16:17] Any people from Northern Europe here? [16:18] Talikka, how far north? [16:19] For a definition of North, yes. [16:19] Nordic and Baltic countries. [16:20] nope, i live in a silly kingdom, next to Belgium [16:20] That's Central Europe (or Western?) [16:20] western [16:20] koonigin der nederlanden [16:20] I remember a coin [16:20] slagroomsoesjes stroopwafels taxparadise [16:20] jups [16:22] lordievader: yes, my laptop... T4200 [16:22] :) [16:22] from 2009 [16:22] it still works today [16:23] if you know it, feel free to ignore it [16:24] Nice description [16:26] stroopwafels is famous now by McDonalds [16:30] McDonalds has stroopwafels now? [16:34] ahhhhh... I miss McDonalds... :) [16:34] some nice plastic food [16:34] * daftykins is going to England on Thursday so will try to get some fast food goodness [16:35] the fastest food in nl, is when you hold up a hotdog on the beach, seagulls [16:35] woesh [16:35] :D [16:37] last year, we had an orphan seagull, lost his mom, hanged around the green yard for a while, lots of people gave him food, this year, same period, he is back [16:37] walking around like the grass is not for chihuahuas [16:39] tut tut! [16:40] >:) [16:40] Pien: we had a deal .. https://photos.app.goo.gl/wHcgN8YrfHWWCuic8 [16:41] Drabber: i told you she would .. https://photos.app.goo.gl/97caVv9uyEk1fqxN8 [16:42] apple event in 18 minutes [16:52] what did she do? :o [16:58] That is how she sits in the hallway, waiting for a walk [16:58] pokey eyes [17:00] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=996wliAI_y4 [17:01] enter your creditcard details in advance [17:18] xD [17:20] ShutuP, TAKE MY $4,99 [17:50] daftykins: https://www.lenovo.com/pt/pt/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/ThinkPad-P73/p/20QRCTO1WWPTPT2 [17:50] 6039 EUR [17:50] :) [17:51] this is what we call a good machine [17:51] :p [17:51] nope [17:51] no? :((((((((((( [17:51] why not? [17:51] :((((((( [18:02] OerHeks: stroopwafels taxparadise.. is that a password or a band name? :) [18:09] daftykins: What is "Opal"? [18:09] "2 TB, M.2 2280, PCIe-NVMe, Opal" [18:10] opal in the context of hard drives is a hardware based encryption thingy [18:10] an encryption standard [18:10] ahhhhhhhh [18:10] :) [18:10] thanks [18:11] essentially when you enter a 'hard disk password' into the BIOS of a machine and/or add your fingerprint to the sensor in the OS, you can require either be 'entered' before it'll unlock the drive to boot [18:11] ahhhhh [18:11] :) [18:11] thanks [18:13] https://github.com/Drive-Trust-Alliance/sedutil [18:14] SED is widely considered unsafe due to flaws in SSD manufacturer firmware, for example not long ago Crucial were found to be using a blank password in their implementation [18:14] it's a real shame :( [18:15] Yeah, I don't trust any hardware encryption. [18:16] https://www.ru.nl/publish/pages/909282/draft-paper.pdf [18:18] sometimes it's worth giving context to links [18:19] naaaaaah [18:19] everybody clicks on everything [18:19] all the time :) [18:23] ;) not when it's a PDF [18:25] "Self-encrypting deception: weaknesses in theencryption of solid state drives (SSDs)" [18:25] :D [18:44] daftykins: You seem to be an expert in computer science... :) is there a way to know the brand of SSD drives that come with laptops? [18:44] the sites don't refer to brands, they just say the size [18:45] that's one of the details you ought to assume can change from minute to minute [18:45] :(((((((((( [18:46] i don't think comp sci even touches hardware ;) [18:46] what? [18:46] Computer science isn't about computers. [18:46] At least, not specific computers. [18:46] how?! why?! what?! [18:47] "Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." -- Dijkstra [18:48] ohhhhhhh [18:48] Dijkstra [18:48] !!!! [18:48] computer science will include *architectural* questions -- registers, CPU cache, main memory, disks, networking, latencies to get to them, and how you can choose among different datastructures and algorithms to make most use of the resources you have available [18:48] While the quote has been debated, it's nonetheless true that many computer scientists know very little about hardware, where others know lots. [18:48] Dijkstra created the algorithms that draw lines on the screen [18:48] :) [18:48] you might wind up writing assembler for specific processors, but that's pretty rare these days [18:48] or was it the closest traject between two points? I can't remember [18:49] I have several friends who recently got their PhD's in computer science; one writes compilers and the other does geometry. [18:49] "Dijkstra's algorithm" is for pathfinding; but he invented others, I'm sure. [18:49] yes, path finding! [18:50] the closest traject between two points [18:50] :) [18:50] I read about it years ago for my PhD project [18:50] :) [18:50] I didn't know he was a famous person [18:50] :p [18:51] Prim's algorithm too, that all came up in Maths lessons for me [18:51] the teacher had no idea what they were about though, just said "i think it has something to do with computers" [18:51] I would never guess that more people knew about Dijkstra :) [18:51] with no decent tie to real-world tasks, i gave up not longer after ^_^ [18:55] It's pretty common for people not to work in the fields they studied. I know an astrophysicist that's a programmer now. [18:56] >:) [18:56] That's actually a common thing though, turning from astronomy to computers [18:59] eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Spencer [19:00] I would have to look, but I wonder what his thoughts are on Linux [19:01] One of my coworkers has a PhD in physics, and is now in IT. [19:01] after I finish my studies I want to return to the paranormal field!!!! I just hope I won't get crazier again! [19:01] :) [19:01] paranormal? [19:02] marcoagpinto, yes, you WILL get crazier... but that's OK [19:02] yes, one of my greatest hobbies [19:02] :) [19:02] UFO, aliens and paranormal [19:02] Well, that explains a lot. [19:02] but for over ten years that I have no time for it [19:02] ( because UFOs and aliens are normal ) [19:04] paraBuntu - The new flavor of Ubuntu geared and skinned for parapsychologists and the like. [19:05] JimBuntu: I think most of my systems must already be on that judging by how they behave! [19:06] I have done some crazy things in my search for cosmic knowledge, such as sleeping with a moldavite crystal tapped to the forehead :) [19:07] then, the experiences during sleep became so bad that I couldn't handle them [19:07] :) [19:07] Maybe you should stop doing crazy things then [19:07] lordcirth_: I knoe [19:07] know* [19:08] I bought a CD with neural waves or whatever to develop telepahy :) but after some time I started feeling dizzy and gave up [19:08] that some 20 years ago? I can't remember [19:10] many, many years ago I tried various things with crystals after reading a book about them. Sat and stared at a few intensely for maybe 8 hours at a time. Nothing happened, who woulda thunk it? [19:11] http://marcoagpinto.com/me_science.html#sciencepsi <-this should give you an insight [19:11] :) [19:11] my search for knowledge [19:11] :p [19:11] I already have that bookmarked [19:12] ahhhhhh [19:12] :) [19:12] researchers may find it is valuable information not found elsewhere [19:12] :) [19:18] Somehow I doubt that. [19:18] what?! why?! [19:18] :) [19:31] I already have a visit card after I update my homepage in 2021: https://i.imgur.com/2Yw9Z3J.png [19:31] :) [19:33] so, I am planning ahead [19:33] How very 90's. [19:33] On an unrelated note, one of our researchers managed to OOM a box with 12TiB of RAM. So that's fun. [19:34] what? [19:34] what is "OOM"? [19:35] out of memory. [19:35] ohhhhhhhhh [19:35] Their job got killed by the kernel. [19:35] :D [19:36] once I was making a test extracting an Arabian dictionary with my Proofing Tool GUI to test a new feature and it became 10s of GB big [19:36] it had millions of words in Arab [19:36] some 20+ GB :(((((( [19:37] a normal .txt file [19:37] in fact I did it with two versions of PTG to test the feature, so it took double space [19:37] I am glad it didn't end all the space in C: or it would crash my computer [19:38] both versions running at the same time, while I was napping [20:27] We've been getting a lot of these errors in our AWS CI. It goes away eventually. Is there issues with the mirrors lately? 10:46:09 [91mE: Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/systemd/libsystemd0_237-3ubuntu10.29_amd64.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.175 80] [20:27] 10:46:09 E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing? [20:34] this grabbed the file from all the IPv4 addresses .. for ip in $(host security.ubuntu.com | sort -u | awk '/security.ubuntu.com has address/ {print $4;}') ; do curl --resolve security.ubuntu.com:80:${ip} http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/systemd/libsystemd0_237-3ubuntu10.29_amd64.deb -o $ip ; done [20:34] leftyfb: 404 usually indicates the package lists are out-of-date and the version of the package in the archive has been replaced with a newer version. [20:35] leftyfb: the other possibility is the local package lists for apt are out of date [20:35] it's neither [20:35] leftyfb: any chance you've got a funny proxy playing games? it's of course possible you grabbed the lists from one mirror and then tried to grab the file from another mirror that wasn't htere yet, but it ought to have been repaired eventually [20:36] leftyfb: from the host the reports the 404 immediately try to fetch the package manually using curl or wget [20:36] leftyfb: I find "wget -S -O /dev/null ..." useful, -S shows the returned HTTP headers [20:38] http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python2.7/libpython2.7-minimal_2.7.15-4ubuntu4~18.04_amd64.deb [20:38] I get 404 for that right now [20:39] same here [20:40] http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Z3JM9JWdhq/ [20:40] it should be available [20:41] leftyfb: I don't see that one, only 2.7.15-4ubuntu4~18.04.1 [20:41] leftyfb: ^^ according to apt-cache policy [20:42] yeah, I'm seeing that as well. Sorry, I'm relaying info from the guys who maintain our CI :) [20:42] .1 is there [20:42] yeah, I see that now [20:42] so looks like the local package list is out of date [20:53] A coworker in Paraguay is seeing packages listed on http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python2.7/ that aren't there anymore [20:54] that's funny, i'm 404ing against digitalocean's mirror [20:54] leftyfb: transparent HTTP proxy .... try https maybe? [20:54] no proxies. This is on his home machine and our CI in AWS periodically [20:55] neither of which is using any proxies for packages [20:55] and suddenly it's fine after 3 repeats of apt update [20:55] see [20:55] that's exactly what we're seeing [20:56] sarnold: ^ [20:57] leftyfb: our IS staff is currently forcing a sync on all the machines again, hopefully this will sort it out [20:57] sarnold: oh did you beat me to it? === sveta_ is now known as Sveta [20:57] sarnold: thank you :) [20:57] TJ-: yeah, and fdunny enough someone else had beat me to it too :) but I had easy pastebins handy, so... [20:58] sarnold: tell sciri I said hi :) [20:58] sarnold: funny thing is I was reading earlier today some fluff-piece about how the hybrid caching juju charm that is responsible for the infrastructure was so fab with multiple haproxy etc [21:00] ah here it is https://ubuntu.com/blog/running-an-ubuntu-mirror-with-juju [21:00] TJ-: oh got a link for it? I thought the security.ubuntu.com (and the archives in dns) were "real" live machines; all the public clouds use the caching proxies rather than their own mirrors [21:00] TJ-: woot [21:02] sarnold: when would be a good time to restart the build process on our end? An hour? Tomorrow morning? [21:10] leftyfb: let me rerun my python download and see if that worked [21:10] leftyfb: dang :( not yet :( [21:11] leftyfb: my guess is "an hour", but then I was also guessing it might have already been fixed.. so.. I'm not doing great on guesses at the moment :) [21:12] ok, thanks. Might be best to just tell them to hold off till the morning [21:22] leftyfb: we've just been told it should be good now [21:22] awesome, thanks [21:22] surprised we haven't heard of more people having an issue with this [21:32] guys?! [21:32] >:) [21:33] I haven't tested with 18.04.3 but it is possible that pop-up menus coded in PureBasic with "&&" don't show "&" to be a bug of PureBasic of Ubuntu? [21:33] and emoji characters don't allow to change the colour? [21:33] I mentioned this the other day but no one replied [21:34] of Ubuntu=or Ubuntu* [22:04] maybe it's because no one uses purebasic? [22:22] tomreyn: What I was asking is if anyone can try it in other languages [22:22] :) [22:22] create a pop-up menu with "&&", for example: "Pick && Save" to see if it shows "Pick & Save" [22:22] :) [22:23] and the emoji, one could create a text gadget with some text and an emoji and change the colour of the gadget to see if the emoji changes too [22:23] marcoagpinto: i wouldn't even know how to do so, would need instructions [22:23] :((((((((((( [22:24] Python? [22:24] i'm aware that exists [22:24] Maybe you need to escape or encode that character for it to display properly. [22:24] I am escaping with a double "&&" [22:25] it works okay on Windows [22:25] maybeyou need \& or && [22:25] tomreyn: I will test your suggestion tomorrow [22:25] :) [22:25] thanks [22:26] I will copy your line into a text file so that I remember [22:26] the former would be shell escaping, the latter url encoding [22:27] ahhhhh [22:27] :) [22:27] thanks [22:29] Damn... no wonder my laptop was slow as hell... there are several Windows updates :((((((((((( [22:29] including a commulative [22:29]