[15:50] <wonko> So I just installed studio 19.04. I was running 18.04 that was vanilla ubuntu "upgraded" to studio with all the kxstudio junk. I'm trying to go more proper ubtuntu studio this time so I'm using Patchage and the studio controls, etc...
[15:50] <wonko> My previous setup was a mess, but it worked the way I wanted it to
[15:50] <wonko> my current issues are I can't get my MIDI control surface to connecct to Ardour in Patchage
[15:51] <wonko> and I'm curious as to what is the correct way to connect the mic from my webcam into jack
[15:51] <wonko> I was doing this before: alsa_in -j WebCam -d hw:C920 -q 1 -r 32000 2>&1 1> /dev/null &
[15:51] <wonko> and I'm curious if that's still a reasonable way to do things
[15:52] <OvenWerks> in ubuntustudio-controls...
[15:52] <OvenWerks> you want both bridge check boxes checked
[15:52] <wonko> They are, yes
[15:53] <OvenWerks> you should see your webcam mic in patchage already then
[15:53] <OvenWerks> your midi control surface should show on the a2j ports
[15:54] <wonko> I don't though. I have PulseIn, PulseOut, the two system ones, Ardour and the midi stuff
[15:54] <OvenWerks> Assuming jack is running of course
[15:54] <wonko> the midi devices are there
[15:54] <wonko> I just can't wire it to Ardour
[15:54] <wonko> it never makes the link
[15:55] <wonko> https://imgur.com/KUr33gD.png
[15:55] <wonko> That's what it looks like now
[15:56] <OvenWerks> what does the controls look like?
[15:56] <wonko> https://imgur.com/ftz0GMu.png
[15:57] <OvenWerks> wow I didn't think we had changed controls so much since 19.04
[15:58] <wonko> never used it before so no idea here. :)
[15:58] <wonko> so the USB webcam shows up in the drop down for USB device that should be master, but I don't want that.
[15:59] <OvenWerks> no, that would be bad
[15:59] <OvenWerks> you may want to add this PPA to keep the Studio specific apps up to date: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-ppa/+recipe/ubuntustudio-controls-backport
[16:00] <OvenWerks> Why are you using 192000 sample rate?
[16:00] <wonko> Is that needed for 19.04? The way I read the release notes that was only for 18.04
[16:00] <wonko> it's what the mk2 supports. :)
[16:01] <OvenWerks> 48k is as good as your ears ever get (well not that even)
[16:01] <OvenWerks> 192000 uses 4 times as much disk space 4 times as much cpu and you get nothing in return
[16:02] <mrz80> *bingo* THAT was the packaage I forgot!  ubuntu-studio-controls !  Thanks for the reminder.  Just ditched my chromebook in favor of a backlevel Macbook Pro, much more of a going concern as a portable studio machine!
[16:02] <wonko> I'll change that then I guess.
[16:02] <OvenWerks> your webcam mic likely only supports 48k but may (if you are lucky) also support 44k1
[16:02] <wonko> but, I still need my MIDI and mic working. :)
[16:02] <wonko> I think it only supports 32k
[16:03] <wonko> it's going to be replaced with a proper mic hooked up to the komplete audio 6
[16:03] <wonko> so it's just a stop gap until I get to that
[16:03] <OvenWerks> most usb mics at least support 48k because that is the MS standard
[16:04] <wonko> Hmm, I seem to remember having to run it at 32k for some reason
[16:04] <wonko> anyway, that wouldn't affect it showing up in Patchage though, right?
[16:04] <OvenWerks> yes it would
[16:05] <OvenWerks> the newer -controls from the backports PPA should be more forgiving
[16:06] <wonko> Still doesn't show up though
[16:06] <jubo2> Hello. Would people recommend 18.04 or 19.04 ?
[16:07] <OvenWerks> wonko: could you in a terminal type: cat ~/.log/autojack.log |pastebinit
[16:07] <OvenWerks> wonko: and give me the url that pops up?
[16:07] <wonko> cat: /home/wonko/.log/autojack.log: No such file or directory
[16:08] <OvenWerks> in controls did you hit the start jack button?
[16:09] <wonko> many, many, many times. :)
[16:11] <OvenWerks> well I wouldf start by installing the newer -controls.
[16:11] <wonko> one sec, doing that now
[16:11] <wonko> :)
[16:12] <wonko> way more options. :)
[16:13] <OvenWerks> also in a terminal type this all as one line:
[16:13] <OvenWerks> cd /tmp && wget http://jackaudio.org/downloads/adevices.sh && bash ./adevices.sh |pastebinit
[16:13] <OvenWerks> And pass me the url
[16:14] <wonko> ah ha, I get a2j devices in patchage now
[16:14] <OvenWerks> how about your webcam mic
[16:14] <wonko> still no webcam mic though
[16:15] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SbWpDcBKt9/
[16:15] <wonko> that's autjack.log
[16:15] <wonko> Can't open ALSA capture device 'hw:C920,0,0'.
[16:16] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/y68cm888Zz/
[16:16] <wonko> that's the script output
[16:18] <OvenWerks> try: cat /proc/asound/C920/stream0 |pastebinit
[16:20] <wonko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gPNtTdgn4k/
[16:22] <OvenWerks> Oh my... ok I would try in a terminal: zita-a2j -d hw:C920,0,0 -r 32000 &
[16:24] <OvenWerks> Does that error out or do you get sync messages?
[16:24] <wonko> that gets me a zita-a2j device in patchage
[16:24] <wonko> Starting synchronisation.
[16:24] <OvenWerks> That is your mic
[16:26] <wonko> ok, so that's all the current issues sorted, so thank you very much for that
[16:26] <wonko> now I have more questions. :)
[16:26] <OvenWerks> It appears controls was trying to start it at 16000
[16:26] <wonko> a) can I get zita-a2j to start automatically with controls?
[16:26] <wonko> b) how do I save my Patchage wiring? Every time I restart jack it resets.
[16:28] <wonko> or for b should I just use Carla?
[16:28] <OvenWerks> carla works better I have heard.
[16:29] <OvenWerks> A) it should have just worked as is... I am not sure why it doesn't
[16:29] <jubo2> Ubuntu Studio.... do I want 18.04 or 19.04? Kubuntu 19.04 did not feel as stable as 18.04.3
[16:33] <OvenWerks> wonko: does ubuntu-bug ubuntustudio-controls work? or does it say it is not in the repos?
[16:33] <OvenWerks> jubo2: how do you plan to install STudio? on top of kubuntu? or with the ubuntustudio iso?
[16:34] <OvenWerks> wonko: if it allows you to file a big please do. Title it "Web cam mic doesn't bridge"
[16:36] <jubo2> OvenWerks: Oh I can install it as a repo? Where are the instructions I kinda managed to mess up my Kubuntu setup and of course did not set Timeshift to make a backup before messing it up
[16:36] <jubo2> OvenWerks: I have 100GB free on disk and a separate /home partition, so I can install it alongside Kubuntu
[16:37] <OvenWerks> jubo2: install kubuntu first. add ppa: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-ppa/+recipe/ubuntustudio-controls-backport and then sudo atp install ubuntustudio-installer
[16:38] <wonko> Also, I realized I don't care about A as I'll be replacing that with a proper mic connected to the komplete audio. :)
[16:39] <wonko> OvenWerks: No. cannot be reported, not an official ubuntu package
[16:39] <wonko> also, thanks so much for all your help
[16:40] <OvenWerks> I will try reporting it then. If you are still around once I get it in, you could click on this affects me too
[16:46] <wonko> Ok, Carla is *vastly* better than Patchage
[16:46] <wonko> but I still can't get it to save all my routing changes
[16:46] <wonko> if I restart jack it all goes back to default
[16:53] <OvenWerks> wonko: if you have a launchpad account you could hit the "This bug affects you" link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/+bug/1843926
[16:54] <OvenWerks> wonko: so you need some sort of session manager
[16:55] <wonko> Yeah, I was using Claudia for that
[16:55] <wonko> but I'm trying to avoid the KX stuff
[16:56] <wonko> I added myself to affects me too
[16:56] <OvenWerks> Thank you
[16:57] <wonko> no, thank *you*
[16:57] <OvenWerks> the kxstudio stuff can interfere with controls
[16:57] <OvenWerks> in particular cadence
[16:58] <wonko> yeah, I forget where but someone said to avoid it because of that
[16:58] <OvenWerks> I think Eickmeyer[m] has added raysession to the repos
[16:58] <wonko> so that's the plan. :)
[16:59] <OvenWerks> but raysession does not seem to be in our PPA so I am not sure if it will show up before 19.10
[17:01] <wonko> I'm ok with getting it and manually installing it or even building it if I have to. Where would I find it?
[17:04] <OvenWerks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/raysession
[17:05] <wonko> I stumbled into that myself
[17:05] <wonko> got the master branch
[17:05] <wonko> let's get to building. :)
[17:05] <OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/raysession/+git/raysession/+ref/master has the dl link
[17:06] <OvenWerks> it is definately set for 19.10, but should be in the backports for 19.04... Eickmeyer[m] why isn't it? or is it not released yet?
[17:09] <wonko> lrelease: could not exec '/usr/lib/qt5/bin/lrelease': No such file or directory
[17:09] <wonko> thoughts?
[17:09] <wonko> I'm not sure what package I need for that
[17:12] <OvenWerks> https://git.launchpad.net/raysession/tree/debian/control
[17:12] <OvenWerks> look at the build depends
[17:12] <OvenWerks> lines 6 to 10
[17:12] <wonko> oh i bet it's the qt4-liguistic-tools because I don't think I got that one
[17:13] <wonko> hmm, that didn't actually work. :(
[17:14] <OvenWerks> best to ask Eickmeyer[m] when he is around as he is the packager
[17:15] <wonko> Ok, I'm not in a rush to solve this so I'll wait for him. :)
[17:16] <OvenWerks> we have mentioned his nick enough times... I am sure he will say something when he is here.
[17:16] <wonko> heh
[18:13] <jubo2> Searching for Ubuntu Studio repos, seems to bring up only a backports repo
[18:15] <jubo2> plus the pulseaudio bridge does not seem to be on by default in the 19.04 live image
[18:16] <OvenWerks> jubo2: most of the stuff for studio is in the main ubuntu repos
[18:16]  * jubo2 wonders when the jackd2 could have multiple sound cards in the patchbay
[18:16] <OvenWerks> there are just a few changes in ubuntustudio-installer and ubuntustudio-controls
[18:17] <OvenWerks> jubo2: it is unlikely that jackd will ever support more than one card at a time without extra progems like zita-aj bridge
[18:19] <OvenWerks> jackd is made for bit perfect, lowlatency audio. two audio cards with different clocks do not fit in that kind of opperation
[18:20] <jubo2> Oh ok, thanks OvenWerks
[18:20] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio specifically provides bridging extra audio devices into jack for use by jack
[18:20] <jubo2> OvenWerks: and I can install it to a Kubuntu?
[18:21] <OvenWerks> yes, I have done that here and it seems to work well. I am planning to do that here when the next LTS comes out.
[18:22] <OvenWerks> (20.04)
[18:22] <jubo2> Yeah, April of even years
[18:22] <OvenWerks> I install to many extra packages for development to switch every 6 months
[18:26] <wonko> If I hadn't of blown up my OS I would still be on 18.04. ;)
[18:28] <jubo2> I'm wondering if using used hardware is making sense for wellbeing
[18:29] <jubo2> but now is a bad time to buy, because Thunderbolt 3 models have just come out and cost tons
[18:30] <jubo2> Thunderbolt has power, daisychaining and 40Gbps bandwidth, so you can pop in displays and storage and whatnot
[18:32] <wonko> Thunderbolt is nice but it's a bit annoying that you can't just pop a thunderbolt card into a machine ago get thunderbolt. If your motherboard doesn't have the thunderbolt headers forget it. That's stupid. Not bitter or anything. :)
[18:32] <jubo2> I'm using laptops
[18:33] <wonko> Less of an issue there because you have it or you don't. Can't really add it. 😁
[18:36]  * OvenWerks uses an old delta66 PCI audio card... and has no wish to change
[18:50] <wonko> I had some piece of junk usb soundblaster thing. Replaced it with this Komplete Audio 6 Mk2 and couldn't be happier.
[18:51] <wonko> It cost like 10x as much so it has to be better, right? :-D
[18:55] <OvenWerks> The last three USB audio devices I bought were between $0.80 and $4.00, I think the delta was $500-ish back when I bought it. To buy any PCIe audio devices now are $1k-ish
[19:05] <OvenWerks> The three cheap USB devices were for testing and development.
[19:06] <wonko> OvenWerks: That's crazy town prices
[19:13] <OvenWerks> less than $1 is great when you don't care about the sound too much and just want to see how it connects.
[19:15] <wonko> I was talking about the PCIe devices. :)
[19:15] <OvenWerks> These have a single mic input and phones output (or computer speakers) all 1/8 jacks.
[19:15] <OvenWerks> Well with the PCIe devices, almost nobody makes them because the general semi-pro market is all USB
[19:16] <OvenWerks> so the ones I can find are not cheap.
[19:16] <OvenWerks> Most are made for the broadcast market
[19:17] <OvenWerks> The recording market seems to be going dante... which is even more expensive
[19:17] <wonko> I'm assuming they cram them full of inputs and outputs too?
[19:18] <OvenWerks> between 2 and 16 IO
[19:18] <wonko> I'm guessing 16 would be shitty over usb no matter how good your devices is
[19:18] <OvenWerks> even a two IO PCIe card tends to be over $500
[19:19] <OvenWerks> I have heard good things about the X32 with 32io and lots of USB devices are 18 - 24.
[19:20] <OvenWerks> USB 2.0 can handle it just fine so long as the computer is built right and set up right.
[19:20] <wonko> huh, interesting
[19:20] <wonko> I would have expected usb to have latency issues
[19:20] <OvenWerks> the USB devices do not go as low latency as the PCI devices do
[19:21] <OvenWerks> USB minimum latency is determined by the USB clock at 1ms which means minimum 3ms.
[19:21] <OvenWerks> with PCI I can get .7ms pretty easy
[19:21] <OvenWerks> anything less than 10ms is workable though
[19:23] <OvenWerks> It depends on what you are using it for. Live use like computer as a synth or guitar effect needs low latency
[19:23] <OvenWerks> but recording with a good daw can have a lot higher because the Daw compensates
[19:25] <OvenWerks> 21ms for recording is no problem with proper monitoring
[19:28] <OvenWerks> By the way, my reasoning behind using 48000 sample rate rather than higher can be summed up here: https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
[19:29] <OvenWerks> This video: https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml
[19:31] <OvenWerks> wonko: this video ^^ is very good at showing (using analog measuring equipment) why a sample rate any higher than 48000 does not help and may be harmful.
[19:31] <wonko> I'll definitely be giving that a read, thanks!