/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/09/17/#ubuntu-us-mi.txt

cmaloneyGood morning13:17
cmaloneySo, um, anything new? :)13:18
jrwrenFSF is now RMS free.13:19
cmaloneyYeah, I know.13:19
cmaloneyI was on Mastodon when it hit.13:19
cmaloneyRIP sleep13:19
jrwrenoh no! do not read the comments.13:20
jrwreni read way too many lwn comments and caught myself reading hte comments and immediately closed the tab.13:20
cmaloneyWell, on one IRC channel it was way more kind13:20
cmaloneyand it was fine until someone went into the whole mixing politics and software thing (they were against)13:21
cmaloneywhich, I'm not sure where they were that day when it was announced that software was political, but OK. ;)13:21
cmaloneyhttps://functional.cafe/@juliobiason/102804921786785051 <- Why Rust and not Go13:29
jrwrendo you want my response? :)13:31
cmaloneyif you wish. :)13:31
jrwrenI'm maybe 1/8 into the blog post and I can already tell you author doesn't have enough Go experience (any) to be worth listening to on this topic.13:33
cmaloneyHave you done any Rust?13:34
cmaloneyAlso the blog post is quite scattershot13:34
mrgoodcatthe paragraph marked "huge disclaimer" basically states "idk what i'm talking about"13:35
jrwreni've not done rust, but hte points made aren't even about rust.13:36
jrwrenI'm sorry, but this author is IMO clueless, and not just about Go.13:36
jrwreni shouldn't say clueless. I should say, misinformed and missing some big pieces of the picture about Go and also apparently about pypy13:36
jrwrenmrgoodcat: exactly.13:36
cmaloneyMy take is the points that he's picking apart are meaningless13:37
cmaloneythis looks like something picking apart another post13:37
cmaloneyhttps://kristoff.it/blog/why-go-and-not-rust/ <- This post13:37
jrwrenI think I read that yesterday and I was also not impressed.13:38
jrwreni 100% agree with the cargo cult points and i wish more people made them.13:41
jrwrenugh, but the rest are from such a place of ignorance it is tough to read.13:42
jrwrenlmao... this is SOOOO bad.13:43
jrwrenThe one thing that Go puts almost above all else, compile speed, and the response is "Ah crap, not that shit again."13:43
jrwrenWHY DID YOU LINK THIS GARBAGE TO ME!?!13:43
mrgoodcati have closed both blog posts13:43
jrwrenmrgoodcat: you are smarter than me. i can't not finish reading it.13:44
mrgoodcatthe go not rust one is at least more coherent13:44
jrwreni want those 15min back13:57
jrwrenit is sad to think that if the author had spent the time writing that article, instead writing some go code, i wouldn't have had to read the article13:58
mrgoodcati am all about compile speed. makes me angry how slow most ~modern~ languages are at compiling14:00
mrgoodcatruins the dev/build/run loop14:01
mrgoodcatmost of my work code these days is typescript and it is painful14:01
jrwrenugh, yup.14:01
jrwrenThat is why I love Go.14:01
jrwrenmy Go programs compile faster than webpack runs on a fresh create-react-app14:02
mrgoodcatthis thread does a good job capturing the frustration of a slow dev cycle https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/100769086490952908814:03
jrwrengary is always on point.14:04
mrgoodcatalways14:05
mrgoodcati very nearly went to deconstruct this year. had a ticket and everything14:05
mrgoodcatmaybe next year...14:05
mrgoodcatto be very clear, i really like typescript a lot. almost all of the bad in typescript comes from the javascript leaking out14:05
mrgoodcati wish typescript would have a no compatibility mode fork that would allow some of the js weirdness to be disallowed14:06
jrwren"Computers exist to serve us, not the other way around. If it is not fast and reliable then it is wrong!"14:06
jrwrennever forget14:06
brouschDoes golang have a repl?16:41
cmaloneyI know rust doesn't have a repl and that's a little frustrating16:42
cmaloneyI'm so used to Python's ability to test code like that16:42
brouschI'm supposed to learn Golang, and found myself doing things in the Python repl for a project I should be doing in golang.16:43
cmaloneyheh16:46
cmaloneyApparently this is supposed to sufice: https://play.golang.org/16:47
jrwrenthere are repl's written for Go, but Go does not have an official repl.16:47
jrwrenI thought I'd want a repl. The compiler is so fast I don't miss having a repl.16:47
cmaloneyhttps://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/65516:48
cmaloneyIt's more about the scaffolding to get to test code, honestly. If there's a template that gets me quickly to testing code then that's cool17:06
jrwrendo you mean like the vscode-go command "generate test for function" ?17:10
jrwrenhttps://github.com/cweill/gotests17:13
cmaloneyI mean something where I can go from open vim to getting something working17:15
cmaloneyYes, grandpa likes his vim. Get over it. :)17:16
brouschSo you use a edit, save, compile, run workflow to explore a module?17:20
brouschMaybe an IDE with conveniences built in would help17:21
jrwrenvim-go is pretty darned great.17:22
jrwrento explore a go package, i read the source.17:22
brouschUg, that doesn't help me. I always have to play with it in a repl17:23
brouschWell, it helps some17:23
jrwrenya know you can import pacakges in the playgorund now, right?17:28
jrwrensee how yaml was imported: https://play.golang.org/p/TE4rrnXUToJ17:29
cmaloneyYeargh, go code does not seem readible on first glance17:30
jrwrenis ANY code readable at first glance?17:30
jrwrenI'd argue it isn't, and ifyou think it is, you are wrong.17:30
* cmaloney mutters in Python17:30
cmaloneyYeah, I completely understand. Rust looks foreign to me as well17:31
jrwrenpython is definitely NOT readable at first glance. have you seen metaclasses?!?17:31
jrwrenFalse ** False == True17:31
jrwrenwtf python17:31
cmaloneyYes, and they were a stubling block17:31
cmaloney>>> False ** False == True17:32
cmaloneyTrue17:32
cmaloney;)17:32
jrwrenthe "it reads like english" lie sold by rubyists for years always irked me17:33
cmaloneyRuby has no claim on reading like English17:33
cmaloneyI completely agree there17:33
_stink_i was reading something recently (maybe linked from this channel?) that said (paraphrasing) "if you can get past the lisp-isms, this code is more or less readable"17:33
_stink_made me chuckle17:33
cmaloneyHeh17:34
cmaloneyLisp is not read as much as it is parsed17:34
_stink_granted, lisp devs often write domain-specific more than many other languages17:34
cmaloneywagreed17:35
mrgoodcatthe marshal/unmarshal in go is really nice but i have to admit it threw me off at first17:52
jrwrenit is jsut different.17:55
jrwrenbut i've found that everything in go is different for very important and good reasons17:55

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