[13:17] <cmaloney> Good morning
[13:18] <cmaloney> So, um, anything new? :)
[13:19] <jrwren> FSF is now RMS free.
[13:19] <cmaloney> Yeah, I know.
[13:19] <cmaloney> I was on Mastodon when it hit.
[13:19] <cmaloney> RIP sleep
[13:20] <jrwren> oh no! do not read the comments.
[13:20] <jrwren> i read way too many lwn comments and caught myself reading hte comments and immediately closed the tab.
[13:20] <cmaloney> Well, on one IRC channel it was way more kind
[13:21] <cmaloney> and it was fine until someone went into the whole mixing politics and software thing (they were against)
[13:21] <cmaloney> which, I'm not sure where they were that day when it was announced that software was political, but OK. ;)
[13:29] <cmaloney> https://functional.cafe/@juliobiason/102804921786785051 <- Why Rust and not Go
[13:31] <jrwren> do you want my response? :)
[13:31] <cmaloney> if you wish. :)
[13:33] <jrwren> I'm maybe 1/8 into the blog post and I can already tell you author doesn't have enough Go experience (any) to be worth listening to on this topic.
[13:34] <cmaloney> Have you done any Rust?
[13:34] <cmaloney> Also the blog post is quite scattershot
[13:35] <mrgoodcat> the paragraph marked "huge disclaimer" basically states "idk what i'm talking about"
[13:36] <jrwren> i've not done rust, but hte points made aren't even about rust.
[13:36] <jrwren> I'm sorry, but this author is IMO clueless, and not just about Go.
[13:36] <jrwren> i shouldn't say clueless. I should say, misinformed and missing some big pieces of the picture about Go and also apparently about pypy
[13:36] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: exactly.
[13:37] <cmaloney> My take is the points that he's picking apart are meaningless
[13:37] <cmaloney> this looks like something picking apart another post
[13:37] <cmaloney> https://kristoff.it/blog/why-go-and-not-rust/ <- This post
[13:38] <jrwren> I think I read that yesterday and I was also not impressed.
[13:41] <jrwren> i 100% agree with the cargo cult points and i wish more people made them.
[13:42] <jrwren> ugh, but the rest are from such a place of ignorance it is tough to read.
[13:43] <jrwren> lmao... this is SOOOO bad.
[13:43] <jrwren> The one thing that Go puts almost above all else, compile speed, and the response is "Ah crap, not that shit again."
[13:43] <jrwren> WHY DID YOU LINK THIS GARBAGE TO ME!?!
[13:43] <mrgoodcat> i have closed both blog posts
[13:44] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: you are smarter than me. i can't not finish reading it.
[13:44] <mrgoodcat> the go not rust one is at least more coherent
[13:57] <jrwren> i want those 15min back
[13:58] <jrwren> it is sad to think that if the author had spent the time writing that article, instead writing some go code, i wouldn't have had to read the article
[14:00] <mrgoodcat> i am all about compile speed. makes me angry how slow most ~modern~ languages are at compiling
[14:01] <mrgoodcat> ruins the dev/build/run loop
[14:01] <mrgoodcat> most of my work code these days is typescript and it is painful
[14:01] <jrwren> ugh, yup.
[14:01] <jrwren> That is why I love Go.
[14:02] <jrwren> my Go programs compile faster than webpack runs on a fresh create-react-app
[14:03] <mrgoodcat> this thread does a good job capturing the frustration of a slow dev cycle https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/1007690864909529088
[14:04] <jrwren> gary is always on point.
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> always
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> i very nearly went to deconstruct this year. had a ticket and everything
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> maybe next year...
[14:05] <mrgoodcat> to be very clear, i really like typescript a lot. almost all of the bad in typescript comes from the javascript leaking out
[14:06] <mrgoodcat> i wish typescript would have a no compatibility mode fork that would allow some of the js weirdness to be disallowed
[14:06] <jrwren> "Computers exist to serve us, not the other way around. If it is not fast and reliable then it is wrong!"
[14:06] <jrwren> never forget
[16:41] <brousch> Does golang have a repl?
[16:42] <cmaloney> I know rust doesn't have a repl and that's a little frustrating
[16:42] <cmaloney> I'm so used to Python's ability to test code like that
[16:43] <brousch> I'm supposed to learn Golang, and found myself doing things in the Python repl for a project I should be doing in golang.
[16:46] <cmaloney> heh
[16:47] <cmaloney> Apparently this is supposed to sufice: https://play.golang.org/
[16:47] <jrwren> there are repl's written for Go, but Go does not have an official repl.
[16:47] <jrwren> I thought I'd want a repl. The compiler is so fast I don't miss having a repl.
[16:48] <cmaloney> https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/655
[17:06] <cmaloney> It's more about the scaffolding to get to test code, honestly. If there's a template that gets me quickly to testing code then that's cool
[17:10] <jrwren> do you mean like the vscode-go command "generate test for function" ?
[17:13] <jrwren> https://github.com/cweill/gotests
[17:15] <cmaloney> I mean something where I can go from open vim to getting something working
[17:16] <cmaloney> Yes, grandpa likes his vim. Get over it. :)
[17:20] <brousch> So you use a edit, save, compile, run workflow to explore a module?
[17:21] <brousch> Maybe an IDE with conveniences built in would help
[17:22] <jrwren> vim-go is pretty darned great.
[17:22] <jrwren> to explore a go package, i read the source.
[17:23] <brousch> Ug, that doesn't help me. I always have to play with it in a repl
[17:23] <brousch> Well, it helps some
[17:28] <jrwren> ya know you can import pacakges in the playgorund now, right?
[17:29] <jrwren> see how yaml was imported: https://play.golang.org/p/TE4rrnXUToJ
[17:30] <cmaloney> Yeargh, go code does not seem readible on first glance
[17:30] <jrwren> is ANY code readable at first glance?
[17:30] <jrwren> I'd argue it isn't, and ifyou think it is, you are wrong.
[17:30]  * cmaloney mutters in Python
[17:31] <cmaloney> Yeah, I completely understand. Rust looks foreign to me as well
[17:31] <jrwren> python is definitely NOT readable at first glance. have you seen metaclasses?!?
[17:31] <jrwren> False ** False == True
[17:31] <jrwren> wtf python
[17:31] <cmaloney> Yes, and they were a stubling block
[17:32] <cmaloney> >>> False ** False == True
[17:32] <cmaloney> True
[17:32] <cmaloney> ;)
[17:33] <jrwren> the "it reads like english" lie sold by rubyists for years always irked me
[17:33] <cmaloney> Ruby has no claim on reading like English
[17:33] <cmaloney> I completely agree there
[17:33] <_stink_> i was reading something recently (maybe linked from this channel?) that said (paraphrasing) "if you can get past the lisp-isms, this code is more or less readable"
[17:33] <_stink_> made me chuckle
[17:34] <cmaloney> Heh
[17:34] <cmaloney> Lisp is not read as much as it is parsed
[17:34] <_stink_> granted, lisp devs often write domain-specific more than many other languages
[17:35] <cmaloney> wagreed
[17:52] <mrgoodcat> the marshal/unmarshal in go is really nice but i have to admit it threw me off at first
[17:55] <jrwren> it is jsut different.
[17:55] <jrwren> but i've found that everything in go is different for very important and good reasons