[13:17] Good morning [13:18] So, um, anything new? :) [13:19] FSF is now RMS free. [13:19] Yeah, I know. [13:19] I was on Mastodon when it hit. [13:19] RIP sleep [13:20] oh no! do not read the comments. [13:20] i read way too many lwn comments and caught myself reading hte comments and immediately closed the tab. [13:20] Well, on one IRC channel it was way more kind [13:21] and it was fine until someone went into the whole mixing politics and software thing (they were against) [13:21] which, I'm not sure where they were that day when it was announced that software was political, but OK. ;) [13:29] https://functional.cafe/@juliobiason/102804921786785051 <- Why Rust and not Go [13:31] do you want my response? :) [13:31] if you wish. :) [13:33] I'm maybe 1/8 into the blog post and I can already tell you author doesn't have enough Go experience (any) to be worth listening to on this topic. [13:34] Have you done any Rust? [13:34] Also the blog post is quite scattershot [13:35] the paragraph marked "huge disclaimer" basically states "idk what i'm talking about" [13:36] i've not done rust, but hte points made aren't even about rust. [13:36] I'm sorry, but this author is IMO clueless, and not just about Go. [13:36] i shouldn't say clueless. I should say, misinformed and missing some big pieces of the picture about Go and also apparently about pypy [13:36] mrgoodcat: exactly. [13:37] My take is the points that he's picking apart are meaningless [13:37] this looks like something picking apart another post [13:37] https://kristoff.it/blog/why-go-and-not-rust/ <- This post [13:38] I think I read that yesterday and I was also not impressed. [13:41] i 100% agree with the cargo cult points and i wish more people made them. [13:42] ugh, but the rest are from such a place of ignorance it is tough to read. [13:43] lmao... this is SOOOO bad. [13:43] The one thing that Go puts almost above all else, compile speed, and the response is "Ah crap, not that shit again." [13:43] WHY DID YOU LINK THIS GARBAGE TO ME!?! [13:43] i have closed both blog posts [13:44] mrgoodcat: you are smarter than me. i can't not finish reading it. [13:44] the go not rust one is at least more coherent [13:57] i want those 15min back [13:58] it is sad to think that if the author had spent the time writing that article, instead writing some go code, i wouldn't have had to read the article [14:00] i am all about compile speed. makes me angry how slow most ~modern~ languages are at compiling [14:01] ruins the dev/build/run loop [14:01] most of my work code these days is typescript and it is painful [14:01] ugh, yup. [14:01] That is why I love Go. [14:02] my Go programs compile faster than webpack runs on a fresh create-react-app [14:03] this thread does a good job capturing the frustration of a slow dev cycle https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/1007690864909529088 [14:04] gary is always on point. [14:05] always [14:05] i very nearly went to deconstruct this year. had a ticket and everything [14:05] maybe next year... [14:05] to be very clear, i really like typescript a lot. almost all of the bad in typescript comes from the javascript leaking out [14:06] i wish typescript would have a no compatibility mode fork that would allow some of the js weirdness to be disallowed [14:06] "Computers exist to serve us, not the other way around. If it is not fast and reliable then it is wrong!" [14:06] never forget [16:41] Does golang have a repl? [16:42] I know rust doesn't have a repl and that's a little frustrating [16:42] I'm so used to Python's ability to test code like that [16:43] I'm supposed to learn Golang, and found myself doing things in the Python repl for a project I should be doing in golang. [16:46] heh [16:47] Apparently this is supposed to sufice: https://play.golang.org/ [16:47] there are repl's written for Go, but Go does not have an official repl. [16:47] I thought I'd want a repl. The compiler is so fast I don't miss having a repl. [16:48] https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/655 [17:06] It's more about the scaffolding to get to test code, honestly. If there's a template that gets me quickly to testing code then that's cool [17:10] do you mean like the vscode-go command "generate test for function" ? [17:13] https://github.com/cweill/gotests [17:15] I mean something where I can go from open vim to getting something working [17:16] Yes, grandpa likes his vim. Get over it. :) [17:20] So you use a edit, save, compile, run workflow to explore a module? [17:21] Maybe an IDE with conveniences built in would help [17:22] vim-go is pretty darned great. [17:22] to explore a go package, i read the source. [17:23] Ug, that doesn't help me. I always have to play with it in a repl [17:23] Well, it helps some [17:28] ya know you can import pacakges in the playgorund now, right? [17:29] see how yaml was imported: https://play.golang.org/p/TE4rrnXUToJ [17:30] Yeargh, go code does not seem readible on first glance [17:30] is ANY code readable at first glance? [17:30] I'd argue it isn't, and ifyou think it is, you are wrong. [17:30] * cmaloney mutters in Python [17:31] Yeah, I completely understand. Rust looks foreign to me as well [17:31] python is definitely NOT readable at first glance. have you seen metaclasses?!? [17:31] False ** False == True [17:31] wtf python [17:31] Yes, and they were a stubling block [17:32] >>> False ** False == True [17:32] True [17:32] ;) [17:33] the "it reads like english" lie sold by rubyists for years always irked me [17:33] Ruby has no claim on reading like English [17:33] I completely agree there [17:33] <_stink_> i was reading something recently (maybe linked from this channel?) that said (paraphrasing) "if you can get past the lisp-isms, this code is more or less readable" [17:33] <_stink_> made me chuckle [17:34] Heh [17:34] Lisp is not read as much as it is parsed [17:34] <_stink_> granted, lisp devs often write domain-specific more than many other languages [17:35] wagreed [17:52] the marshal/unmarshal in go is really nice but i have to admit it threw me off at first [17:55] it is jsut different. [17:55] but i've found that everything in go is different for very important and good reasons