| === ecloud is now known as ecloud_wfh | ||
| === pstolowski|afk is now known as pstolowski | ||
| seb128 | gooood morning desktopers | 07:38 |
|---|---|---|
| jibel | Salut seb128 | 07:38 |
| seb128 | lut jibel, en forme ? tjs pas trouvé de release blockers? ;) | 07:39 |
| jibel | seb128, en forme, et pas de release blocker. | 07:39 |
| seb128 | :) | 07:39 |
| duflu | Morning seb128 and jibel | 07:40 |
| jibel | I'm wondering if we should change the swap to use a partition instead of a zvol since that's the main feedback from the short experiment | 07:40 |
| seb128 | hey duflu, how are you today? | 07:40 |
| jibel | not a big change but lot of retest | 07:40 |
| duflu | seb128, average I think. You? | 07:40 |
| seb128 | is there a bug with the details? | 07:40 |
| jibel | hi rest of the world | 07:40 |
| duflu | 👋🌏 | 07:41 |
| jibel | seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1847628 it's a known problem upstream under high memory pressure | 07:41 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1847628 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "When using swap in ZFS, system stops when you start using swap" [High,Incomplete] | 07:41 |
| jibel | which on desktop summarizes to using gnome-shell ;) | 07:41 |
| jibel | j/k | 07:41 |
| seb128 | lol | 07:41 |
| duflu | That's odd. RSS really should default to and stick below 300MB | 07:42 |
| duflu | for gnome-shell | 07:42 |
| seb128 | GNOME isn't usable in a 2G vm | 07:43 |
| jibel | I was kidding about gnome-shell but if you have eg 8G of RAM it's quickly used with the shell, a webbrowser and a couple of apps | 07:43 |
| seb128 | even with 2.6 | 07:43 |
| seb128 | and I mean standard desktop, like I couldn't get an install done in a such vm with ubiquity only | 07:43 |
| seb128 | the shell would freeze/hang before the end of the install | 07:43 |
| duflu | I think it's the web browser mostly. Even a leaky gnome-shell should stay in the MB, not GB | 07:44 |
| jibel | you cannot start a live session with 2G | 07:44 |
| duflu | But there might be new leaks? | 07:44 |
| jibel | duflu, start a live session with 2G in a VM, start ubiquity and you'll see that OOM killer is triggered preetty quickly | 07:45 |
| jibel | no webbrowser needed | 07:45 |
| jibel | anyway the minimal requirement is 4GB for a reason | 07:46 |
| seb128 | it's not the shell only, just GNOME | 07:46 |
| jibel | right sorry | 07:46 |
| seb128 | like gnome-software as a service | 07:46 |
| seb128 | eds | 07:46 |
| seb128 | etc | 07:46 |
| duflu | Make sure you're not looking at VSIZE | 07:46 |
| seb128 | Im' not looking at anytthing | 07:46 |
| jibel | me neither, it is just that the system is not usable with 2GB | 07:47 |
| seb128 | I've a virtualbox vm with a 2G RAM allocation | 07:47 |
| seb128 | which used to work fine at the unity time and is getting worth every cycle | 07:47 |
| seb128 | I could get through the 19.10 install with it | 07:47 |
| duflu | It should be clear which process(es) are to blame so if that's known then bugs should be created | 07:48 |
| seb128 | couldn(t* | 07:48 |
| seb128 | I should have a look to that yeah | 07:48 |
| * duflu looks | 07:49 | |
| oSoMoN | good morning desktoppers | 07:50 |
| seb128 | lut oSoMoN | 07:50 |
| jibel | this tool was very useful to analyze memory maps https://www.eqware.net/articles/CapturingProcessMemoryUsageUnderLinux/index.html | 07:50 |
| duflu | My live session uses 729MB of RAM | 07:50 |
| oSoMoN | salut seb128 | 07:50 |
| jibel | no sure it still works on recent ubuntu | 07:51 |
| duflu | Morning oSoMoN | 07:51 |
| oSoMoN | hey duflu | 07:51 |
| oSoMoN | salut jibel | 07:51 |
| duflu | and zero swap | 07:51 |
| jibel | hola oSoMoN | 07:51 |
| seb128 | duflu, unsure what's going on then why it hangs in a 2G env | 07:51 |
| seb128 | you czn try to see if you get the same experience? | 07:51 |
| duflu | Admittedly 200MB is gnome-shell | 07:51 |
| jibel | duflu, where do you get this number from? | 07:51 |
| duflu | jibel, ps command RSS | 07:52 |
| duflu | or 'free -m' | 07:52 |
| jibel | duflu, you cannot use RSS directly to get the amount of memory used by a process | 07:53 |
| duflu | jibel, it's the most accurate measure available other than digging deeper in /proc/PID/status | 07:54 |
| jibel | for me gnome-shell uses 290MB of RSS | 07:54 |
| duflu | Yes you can | 07:54 |
| duflu | Well close enough | 07:54 |
| jibel | but with all the libs it loads it uses 3.3GB | 07:54 |
| jibel | (output of pmap) | 07:54 |
| duflu | That's a beginner's mistake... it's not real memory. Ignore VSZ | 07:54 |
| duflu | Although it is a mistake our users keep making so I'm mindful of it | 07:55 |
| jibel | sorry for being a beginner in memory analysis :) | 07:55 |
| jibel | I'm out for now, minimum requirement is 4GB :) | 07:56 |
| duflu | virtual memory is not real memory it's just address space requiring no RAM or swap | 07:56 |
| duflu | Though the real memory usage is within that | 07:56 |
| duflu | jibel, the best measure I can suggest is the VmSize value in /proc/PID/status | 07:57 |
| duflu | So yeah for me that is 300MB | 07:58 |
| duflu | Oops | 07:59 |
| duflu | I mean VmRSS, plus VmLib etc | 07:59 |
| duflu | I made the beginners' mistake | 07:59 |
| duflu | Though I am assume VmLib includes shared memory and that might also be wrong | 08:00 |
| duflu | assuming | 08:01 |
| duflu | Anyway, providing the 'free' command tells you you're not using swap then you can just measure processes by the RSS value | 08:01 |
| seb128 | bbl, I've an appointement at 10:30 (souldn't be long) and then going to the hackfest | 08:07 |
| Laney | moin | 08:12 |
| duflu | Morning Laney | 08:12 |
| oSoMoN | moin Laney | 08:19 |
| oSoMoN | good morning tkamppeter | 08:19 |
| Wimpress | Morning o/ | 08:35 |
| oSoMoN | hey Wimpress | 08:41 |
| duflu | Morning Wimpress | 08:44 |
| duflu | seb128, I am enjoying eoan on the Pi | 09:31 |
| duflu | In the end it only needs power and ethernet | 09:31 |
| seb128 | duflu, ah, nice, did you resolve the password problem? | 09:31 |
| duflu | seb128, yeah I hacked one in. But our policy for the live image is apparently that you need to boot first with ethernet to be able to change it normally. I did not, so it got confused and then reset my password | 09:32 |
| seb128 | duflu, don't spend weeks on the libffi issue though, if it's too challenging maybe we can plan B to build without neon on armhf or something? | 09:32 |
| seb128 | duflu, ah, I see | 09:32 |
| duflu | seb128, it's fine. I plan to finish today/tomorrow | 09:32 |
| seb128 | k:) | 09:32 |
| duflu | seb128, I just wish I found out that the pi3 image supports Pi 4 earlier | 09:33 |
| duflu | The Pi 3 is limited to 20MB/s on the SD card :( | 09:33 |
| seb128 | it's probably something we should write about | 09:33 |
| seb128 | discourse or blog | 09:33 |
| seb128 | so users who google find that they can (easily?) get ubuntu working on it and how | 09:34 |
| duflu | I think I found out from the 19.10 release notes. It's not on the download page | 09:34 |
| duflu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EoanErmine/ReleaseNotes#Raspberry_Pi_.2B2DzfUw- | 09:35 |
| duflu | seb128, also many people have blogged about Pi SD card performance already | 09:36 |
| seb128 | duflu, I doubt that people will end up on the release note section if they google for "ubuntu pi 4", I still think a blog post or discourse would give us a more reliable/visible page | 09:40 |
| duflu | seb128, I would just change "For Raspberry Pi 3 boards." on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/19.10/beta/ | 09:41 |
| seb128 | ah, willcooke just when you need him :) | 09:42 |
| duflu | Of course that's not the final URL | 09:42 |
| seb128 | willcooke, hey! how do you feel today? better? | 09:42 |
| duflu | Morning willcooke | 09:42 |
| seb128 | going to | 09:42 |
| seb128 | going to/already in London? | 09:42 |
| willcooke | just arrived. Better than yesterday, but not 100% | 09:42 |
| seb128 | willcooke, hopefully you are fixed tomorrow for the release beers :) | 09:44 |
| willcooke | :) | 09:44 |
| willcooke | anything I should be testing on the haunted laptop? | 09:44 |
| seb128 | willcooke, duflu was mentioning that http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/19.10/beta/ should perhaps mention that the raspberry image also work on the pi4? | 09:44 |
| seb128 | it does mention the 3 version only atm | 09:44 |
| duflu | As the release notes already do/does | 09:44 |
| willcooke | I've just this second seen that the webinar that Prod. Man. are running will include that topic | 09:45 |
| seb128 | also I was suggesting that a blog on the topic might give us some visibility to users who have a pi4 and google for what to do with it | 09:45 |
| duflu | Similarly the common kernel is called raspi2 :/ | 09:45 |
| duflu | So the image is called pi3, it works on Pi 4 and the kernel is called pi2 | 09:46 |
| seb128 | that's probably more busy work to change for little benefit | 09:46 |
| duflu | Yes, you still need to be a hacker regardless | 09:47 |
| willcooke | seb128, duflu - sil2100 will add it | 09:48 |
| seb128 | thx | 09:48 |
| duflu | cool | 09:48 |
| sil2100 | duflu: yeah, we wanted to actually rename the raspi3 subarch for the images to raspi, but we backtracked it as we weren't sure if we can support the pi4 with the same image | 10:39 |
| sil2100 | And we only landed the full support recently, so we deemed it too late to do the whole rename dance - this should happen for 20.04 tho | 10:39 |
| duflu | sil2100, thanks | 10:53 |
| duflu | seb128, OK that's enough of my life spent on that... https://salsa.debian.org/science-team/fftw3/merge_requests/1 | 11:15 |
| seb128 | duflu, great, thx! | 11:17 |
| duflu | seb128, it got to Arm assembler being generated from C macros and that's where I stopped. Not sensible for me to learn the intent there. Just avoid the bug location | 11:19 |
| duflu | It might be gcc's fault but other bugs in fftw3 prevent me from verifying :S | 11:19 |
| seb128 | yeah, I think the solution makes sense, no point spending tons of efforts trying to fix neon on armhf | 11:20 |
| duflu | Also, there's an upstream bug suggesting Neon is slower than non-Neon | 11:20 |
| Laney | we're looking to do a re-spin to fix the nvidia:i386 stuff btw | 11:24 |
| Laney | don't know if anybody said yet | 11:24 |
| seb128 | no | 11:25 |
| seb128 | Laney, did anyone talk about the zfs/swap thing jibel asked about earlier? | 11:25 |
| Laney | dunno | 11:25 |
| Laney | not hearing anything about it | 11:26 |
| seb128 | can you bring the topic? | 11:26 |
| Laney | what are you after? | 11:26 |
| seb128 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1847628 | 11:26 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1847628 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "When using swap in ZFS, system stops when you start using swap" [High,Incomplete] | 11:26 |
| Laney | I mean - you want someone here to fix it or what? | 11:26 |
| RikMills | Laney: nice. I just added the nvidia thing to my release notes, so I can get ready to remove it again :) | 11:27 |
| seb128 | if I understood jibel correclty he seemed to point out something that we might want to change/fix before release | 11:27 |
| seb128 | or if we respin | 11:27 |
| Wimpress | I'm ready to test nvidia when new isos drop. | 11:28 |
| seb128 | now I don't understand the topic enough to know if that's something we should or how important that is | 11:28 |
| seb128 | Laney, basically I would welcome other people to have a look and state if they think it's a release problem in their opinion | 11:28 |
| seb128 | and if it is then we need to figure out what we do I guess? | 11:28 |
| Laney | ok | 11:29 |
| Laney | infinity: please read the above | 11:29 |
| seb128 | thx | 11:30 |
| infinity | seb128: If there's a fix in the pipeline that's clear and reviewable, I'm all for reviewing it and letting it in, if not, release note it. It's an experimental feature, we don't expect perfection. | 11:32 |
| seb128 | jibel, ^ do you have a candidate fix? | 11:32 |
| seb128 | Laney, infinity, if I upload an ubuntu-settings change to follow https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gcr/commit/b841b1f29ae6 can we still get that in or should I rather turn it into a SRU? | 11:40 |
| seb128 | well, gcr needs updating as well | 11:41 |
| seb128 | just let me know if the upload needs to include a bug reference if it's turned into a SRU | 11:42 |
| jibel | seb128, no I don't | 11:49 |
| seb128 | jibel, would it be easy to do the change or do you think we should just aim for release note at this point? | 11:49 |
| jibel | as I said earlier it's a lot of test because it changes the partition table. I think we should release note it | 11:50 |
| jibel | then release the fix first thing when 20.04 opens | 11:51 |
| seb128 | k, what you wrote earlier sounded like you were pondering if that was worth going through the new round of testing | 11:52 |
| seb128 | like you were not decided it was not worth it | 11:52 |
| seb128 | seems like you are now :) | 11:52 |
| jibel | yeah while working on the fix I realize it's a significant change and didrock is not here today to do a review | 11:53 |
| seb128 | Laney, infinity, sorry, we had the gcr change (I did backport it some weeks ago), but I overlooked at the time that we had a settings overriding which is basically undoing it :/ | 11:54 |
| seb128 | it's a schemas change which is used by one app afaik so should be pretty safe | 11:54 |
| seb128 | I've a feeling London left for lunch :p | 11:54 |
| seb128 | Laney, infinity, k, I uploaded ubuntu-settings, up to you to approve/reject | 11:56 |
| Laney | seb128: thanks | 12:06 |
| Laney | didn't but we are pair programming atm, not got full attention on irc | 12:07 |
| seb128 | k | 12:12 |
| willcooke | jibel, added to release notes known issues re: swap & zfs | 12:48 |
| willcooke | feel free to edit | 12:48 |
| willcooke | *I added | 12:48 |
| jibel | willcooke, thanks | 13:10 |
| hellsworth | good morning desktopers | 14:49 |
| oSoMoN | good morning hellsworth ! | 14:50 |
| hellsworth | how's it going oSoMoN ? | 14:50 |
| oSoMoN | I'm doing alright, how are you yourself? | 14:51 |
| hellsworth | oh i'm ok. kinda tired but nothing coffee can't fix :) | 14:51 |
| oSoMoN | heh | 14:51 |
| kenvandine | ha... i think the swap on zfs bug has been what's been annoying me | 15:26 |
| kenvandine | i was trying to figure out what was causing the hangs yesterday, but couldn't find anything interesting in the logs | 15:26 |
| seb128 | going to teach you to real stop opting in for experimental filesystems ;) | 15:27 |
| kenvandine | seb128: yeah... i said i wasn't going to do it... but then my ssd failed and had to do a fresh install | 15:29 |
| kenvandine | which perfectly alligned with the experimental feature being enabled and i caved | 15:29 |
| seb128 | :) | 15:29 |
| kenvandine | <- will never learn | 15:29 |
| kenvandine | i guess reducing swapiness would help, i was using small bits of swap even though i had plenty of free memory | 15:33 |
| jibel | if no one use experimental features, we don't find bugs and they stay experimental forever | 15:34 |
| jibel | so thanks kenvandine for being so brave | 15:34 |
| kenvandine | indeed | 15:35 |
| kenvandine | and i am happy now that i know what was causing it | 15:35 |
| hellsworth | is there a way i can have more than one snapcraft build going on the same system at the same time? like if i have two gnome-sdk clones on my system and i want to build them at the same time, that doesn't work (maybe because the multipass vm would have the same name). | 15:47 |
| hellsworth | if i use lxd, does that enable me to run parallel builds of the same name? | 15:48 |
| hellsworth | being confined to one build at a time on a system, i have all 4 computers at home running builds but would be more convenient if i could do it all on one system | 15:49 |
| hellsworth | if it is one build per system, then i could add a couple of rpis to my build cluster.. does snapcraft and multipass work on arm64? | 15:50 |
| hellsworth | that's maybe a stretch.. | 15:50 |
| kenvandine | hellsworth: ask in #snapcraft | 16:22 |
| kenvandine | it would be handle to be able to name the multipass instance | 16:22 |
| kenvandine | or rather override the default name | 16:22 |
| hellsworth | thanks kenvandine | 16:32 |
| === pstolowski is now known as pstolowski|afk | ||
| Wimpress | Evening hellsworth o/ | 18:03 |
| hellsworth | what's up :) | 18:03 |
| hellsworth | ok lunchtime!! | 18:08 |
| sarnold | YAY LUNCH | 18:09 |
| * kenvandine needs lunch | 18:46 | |
| popey | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1848394 | 22:28 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1848394 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software properteries shows "open source" for proprietary nvidia driver" [Undecided,New] | 22:28 |
| popey | anyone got an nvidia 19.10 machine to confirm that? | 22:28 |
| RikMills | Wimpress: ^^ | 22:32 |
| RikMills | pretty sure Martin is going to test the nvidia install anyway for the steam/i386 bug | 22:32 |
| Wimpress | Yep, I will test an install on nvidia now. | 22:49 |
| gQuigs | popey you using the graphics-driver PPA? | 23:11 |
| Wimpress | RikMills popey I can't reproduce https://pad.lv/1848394 | 23:15 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1848394 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software properteries shows "open source" for proprietary nvidia driver" [Undecided,New] | 23:15 |
| gQuigs | IIRC the graphics-driver PPA shows up as open source because it is not in restricted, not sure if this is definitely that issue though | 23:17 |
| gQuigs | Wimpress: popey yup, they have at least one package from a system76 PPA - LP-PPA-system76-pop, I'm guessing that is it | 23:20 |
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