bluesabreAs long as they're not Xfce apps (seems to be the general consensus)00:00
ali1234no, even if they are, they should support window managers that aren't xfce00:00
ali1234but they should also support not-CSD00:01
bluesabreIt probably warrants an extended discussion and reconsideration of the issues... not sure how long ochosi is away, probably don't want to push in either direction until he reappears00:05
Unit193Ah, from the email thread it seems GTK_CSD=0 should just revert it all to be classic Xfce?00:09
Unit193So basically, just changing the default.  If there's a non-CSD option, I don't care what the default is.00:09
ali1234doesn't work on header bars, at least not on anything i have installed00:09
bluesabreIn fact, I think it's logical to make the libxfce4ui headerbar implementation respect that00:10
Unit193Hrm, I purged catfish from everywhere, I can't test it.00:11
ali1234although automatic conversion is still a bit problematic if you go full headerbars like eg gedit00:11
ali1234cos then you have this big ugly toolbar and no menu bar00:11
ali1234this is what headeraway does: https://i.imgur.com/HSUBgTq.png00:16
ali1234screenshot is from before xfwm supported them at all and so you got two decorations00:17
Unit193I could likely use that as I never found an alternative for simple-scan (I've replaced or purged every other CSD/headerbar using application.)00:18
ali1234i doubt it still works without fix ups... it's a preload hack and i made it 6 years ago00:19
bluesabreSo, in theory we could somehow plug that into libxfce4ui, and it would be available for Xfce components, or anything GTK3 in an Xfce session?00:20
ali1234it would only work for xfce components that explicitly used it instead of using gtk header bar directly00:21
bluesabreAh, gotcha. So the ideal usecase would still be using it in preload00:21
ali1234also, confirmed it no longer works00:22
ali1234has no effect on nautilus anyway00:22
Unit193(skanlite pulls in too much KDE)00:22
ali1234i wouldn't recommend shipping gtk preload hacks in a real distribution00:23
Unit193No, it's not the best idea.  I think Lubuntu tried that and it bit them.00:24
ali1234third party stuff is somebody else's problem00:24
ali1234i think ubuntu did it at one point :)00:24
Unit193Oh my.00:25
ali1234the hud/dbus menu thing00:25
bluesabreWhich was my absolute favorite ubuntu feature00:25
ali1234maybe im remembering wrong00:25
ali1234is that a /s?00:25
bluesabreI really thought the hud was awesome00:26
bluesabreBut yeah, that was a patched GTK that enabled that00:26
ali1234it was awesome if you already memorized the contents of every menu in an app00:26
ali1234discoverability for new users was terrible... worse than ribbon, or the thing that hid menu items that you rarely used00:27
Unit193GTK_CSD=0 LD_PRELOAD=libgtk3-nocsd.so.0 /usr/bin/remmina  looks off. :300:39
ali1234i'm still on 18.04 so i can't really even test this stuff properly00:40
ali1234all my xfce is still gtk200:40
Unit193The latter bit is fixable. :300:42
ali1234i'll probably install +1 after christmas00:45
ali1234ten stay on it for two years :)00:45
Unit193You *could* add the xubuntu-dev/staging PPA, but I doubt you like PPAs.00:45
ali1234i love ppas00:45
ali1234i have that ppa installed already00:46
ali1234and also experimental00:46
Unit193Shouldn't you have all GTK3 then?00:46
ali1234no idea00:46
ali1234hmm.. my parole is gtk300:47
ali1234but GTK_CSD has absolutely no effect on it00:48
ali1234it's more the third party stuff... like my simple-scan has no CSD00:49
Unit193That might have been patched out, lucky you.00:49
ali1234neither does atril00:49
Unit193We switched to Atril because evince did.00:49
ali1234oh its a mate fork?00:50
Unit193engrampa, atril, mate-calc.00:51
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
bluesabreali1234, Unit193, I created a new proposal that might help with the Xfce conversation. I've already shot this along to the core devs, but what do you think? https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.16/roadmap/general_ui/csd_support10:46
ali1234bluesabre: works for me. can you add the frozen client bug to the list of problems too please?12:59
ali1234this one: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/issues/21512:59
ali1234i think that one is important because it is not a subjective design issue, CSD is objectively worse in that situation. and because GNOME have declared it unfixable.13:03

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