 Screenshot from my pi running eoan. https://share.riseup.net/#t356jLcPh014TiDGVe7M3A
 @The_LoudSpeaker ^ wxl
[00:45] <wxl> i know raman said something about initially selecting lightdm, so perhaps that created the problem
[00:45] <wxl> why the task even allows for that option is beyond me
[00:45] <wxl> unless that derives somehow from one of the more generic lxqt tasks/packages
[00:45] <wxl> that might be something good to look into
 Performance isn't terrible considering
[00:48] <wxl> early on i had lxqt running on a pi
 wierd fact I don't have a pi
[00:50] <wxl> https://lubuntu.me/lubuntu-lxqt-in-a-raspberry-pi/
[00:50] <wxl> that's on a 2
 Wow, it ran Firefox and was actually able to navigate somewhere. https://share.riseup.net/#OM9siffhXwyuFcFlLzOYcQ
 that's not "somewhere"
[01:23] <kc2bez> I know that is THE destination.
 @kc2bez [Screenshot from my pi running eoan. https://share.riseup.net/#t356jLcPh014TiDGVe …], You installed ubuntu 19.10 server preinstall image and then lubuntu-desktop?
 Mine too ran Firefox but performace was suffering a bit coz nomachine.
 I will do a reinstall today. And select sddm initially
 @The_LoudSpeaker [You installed ubuntu 19.10 server preinstall image and then lubuntu-desktop?], Yes. using the server image I then installed `lubuntu-desktop^ sddm` After a reboot I logged in like normal and had the normal desktop.
 K.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Mine too ran Firefox but performace was suffering a bit coz nomachine.], I wouldn't recommend seriously browsing the web with the pi3 but it did work.
 @kc2bez [I wouldn't recommend seriously browsing the web with the pi3 but it did work.], Yup. Obviously.
[12:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T29: Native nm-tray connection editor] hmollercl (Hans P. Möller) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T29#2531
 @teward001 this is what you saw with vpn? https://github.com/palinek/nm-tray/issues/44
 @HMollerCl [@teward001 this is what you saw with vpn? https://github.com/palinek/nm-tray/iss …], Yes.  And when the VPN has a 2FA prompt for more info or other credentials or the password is dynamic because you need to append TOTP codes to the end of the password it will not work.  Which means a LOT of workplace VPNs cant work w
 And we have to instead reenable nm-applet
 Since upstream has no time to dedicate to this problem you need to address this in release notes
 Or not default to nm-tray
 (cc @tsimonq2 wxl)
 we have nm-applet installed, it's only that it does not autostart.
 then it needs a release notes that it needs to be enabled in such cases (and documentation therein - I solved the issue on my install but i am a power user so...)
 @tsimonq2 wxl I have a working redshift-qt.deb, where should I create a repo for it? I mean, /debian amnd /data folders are needed because there are not in the source.
[17:25] <wxl> @HMollerCl so it's not buildable on Launchpad's infrastructure, i.e. in a PPA?
 I can add them in my machine build and upload to ppa
[17:26] <wxl> that's what i would suggest
 I can do that (not now because here I don't have gpg) but I was thinking something like nm-tray in which in phab the /debian folder is added
[17:27] <wxl> oh for sure.. i mean you'll need that for the ppa anyways
[17:28] <wxl> i guess another thing you could do as a quick and dirty is put it on github and offer the deb as a release
[17:28] <wxl> https://help.github.com/en/github/administering-a-repository/creating-releases
[17:28] <wxl> err
[17:28] <wxl> not that
[17:29] <wxl> oh that's it actually
[17:29] <wxl> step 7 is where you add binaries
[17:30] <wxl> or if you prefer gitlab https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/workflow/releases.html
 anyone around? I can't get create sbuild
 Specified release (focal) not known to debootstrap
 This is what I get when following the 9th step here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
 ow. It is this: … https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap/+bug/1848716
[18:16]  * wxl pats his container happily
[18:17] <wxl> since they're all in proposed, you could add proposed and install it
[18:19] <kc2bez> The_LoudSpeaker: just skip 9
[18:19] <wxl> you can't skip mk-sbuild silly
[18:20] <kc2bez> That is 10
[18:20] <wxl> err oh
[18:20] <wxl> huh nevermind
[18:20] <wxl> what a mess
[18:20] <wxl> just use a container jeez
[18:20] <kc2bez> Or that
 @teward001 [then it needs a release notes that it needs to be enabled in such cases (and doc …], wxl @tsimonq2 your thouhgts about this idea?
[18:22] <wxl> it looks like you could just do a normal gpg keygen and copy to /var/lib/sbuild/apt-keys
 add in the release note the problem with vpn and how to solve it.
[18:22] <wxl> @HMollerCl i think we should have an "advanced networking" bit in the manual
 like that idea
 @lynorian could you create that entry? I can write on it, or give a text toyou for you to standarize and upload
[18:24] <kc2bez> wxl: You could do a normal keygen but if you are just building the packages to test them you don't need them signed.You can use debuild for that.
[18:28] <The_LoudSpeaker> I am on elementary since last few days. had to reset my system coz tried to install wsl2 in windows and ended pu nuking. :D Weighing the pros and cons of enabling proposed in elementary
[18:28] <The_LoudSpeaker> I don't know even C of containers
[19:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> ubuntu provides captive portal checking. who else does the same?
 I don't think I would be the best for explaining networking as I would have to learn some for myself to explain it
[19:39] <The_LoudSpeaker> I just finished creating the sbuild. Had to create thrice cox sophos wanted to fail some downloads -_-
[19:39] <The_LoudSpeaker> But the environment doesn't retain apps that I install to it (nano). I had inverted comments from step 5 from sbuild manual. And I still get those perl warnings. 
 @lynorian [I don't think I would be the best for explaining networking as I would have to l …], I can do it, that's no problem, but I prefer that you create the "index" where to put it and/or to review it for consistency
[19:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> Any help is highly appreciated.
 @lynorian I mean, should it be an appendix? Or in Preferences? System Tools?
[19:52] <kc2bez> The_LoudSpeaker: can you paste your sbuild.rc file?
[19:54] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://pastebin.com/xz0ykgza
[19:55] <The_LoudSpeaker> ^ @kc2bez: 
[19:55] <kc2bez> Thanks
 heheh, i have more in mine if you want it (I run `lintian` during sbuilds)
[19:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> paste ploxx
[19:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> yours also retains apps @teward ?
 i purge the build dir, deps, and session on successful builds only
 that way i don't clutter
 but the lintian and piuparts stuff are added because I did some debian dev recently and ran those all
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> I need nano in there.
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> how do I get that?
[19:57] <The_LoudSpeaker> can't survive without it
 i also edit my debian build opts to use 4 cores (parallelism)
 The_LoudSpeaker: Edit the pristine tars
[19:58] <The_LoudSpeaker> what? use english or provide a custom dictionary ploxx. 
 example: sudo schroot -c source:focal-amd64 -u root
[19:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah I know that one. 
 once in there apt install nano
 then exit
 the session will always build a new session out of the source chroot
 the 'pristine' schroot base
 so mk-sbuild it, drop into the source 'pristine' set of it, add the packages.
 then exit
 i know the not-having-nano thing
 :P
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay thanks!
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> There's also this:
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> W: Failed to change to directory ‘/home/raman’: No such file or directory
[20:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> I: The directory does not exist inside the chroot.
 that's normal
 just cd /
[20:02] <The_LoudSpeaker> I will need that also na? won't I?
 nope
 not to alter the source chroot to add nano
[20:02] <The_LoudSpeaker> how do I sign with my gpg then?
[20:02] <kc2bez> debuild
 debuild -S -sa <— this handles the signing
 unless you're using sbuild to build your packages via sbuild but i haven't worked with that in an eon
 because it has been glitchy
 don't forget also
 you're in the SOURCE chroot
 you're not setting it up for a build env
[20:03] <kc2bez> Right
 i believe sbuild will launch the chroot and configure it accordingly
[20:03] <The_LoudSpeaker> I mean when I use a chroot, I have my gpg and ssh keys inside it and also everything from packaging requirements. don't i need simillar set in sbuild?
[20:03] <kc2bez> It isn't a VM
 @The_LoudSpeaker again, sbuild sets everything up
 you aren't using sbuild to make source pacakges are you?
 if you are you're insane.
 or rather
 if you're using sbuild to emulate `debuild -S` then you're... kinda going to have headaches
 but sbuild will handle automatically mounting things it needs like home, etc.
 schroot won't, sbuild will
 but you're altering the ***BASE*** chroot
 right now
[20:04] <kc2bez> You want it to be clean.
 so you don't need your /home/ dir to alter the base pristine chroot
 right
 that's why it's called the 'pristine'
 adding nano to the pristine is understandable
 but when you're DONE with that, exit out, and subsequent sbuild sessions build chroot envs as copies / sessions *based* off of the pristine
[20:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> I m not making any source packages till now. I used to make tem inside chroot as I would make then inside 
[20:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> my host
 Where would the advanced networking stuff be in the manual an appendix?
 `sbuild -s` will do what you need
 The_LoudSpeaker ^
 but it won't redo your .changes, etc.
 so if you are wanting to do chrooted SOURCE builds
 use pbuilder so it gives you pdebuild, not sbuild
 sbuild is for building the binaries, not really preparing the source pacakge
[20:07] <The_LoudSpeaker> okay. noted. So now I have to set up pbuild *sigh*
 ... or do what I do
 individual LXD containers
 create, destroy as needed.
 :P
 transfer the data out via SFTP to the host for sbuild usage.
 but that's me powerusering :P
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> (focal-amd64)raman@Aspire-ES1-132:/$ nano
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> Unable to create directory /home/raman/.local/share/nano/: No such file or directory
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> It is required for saving/loading search history or cursor positions.
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> Press Enter to continue
[20:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> I guess I will go and create that user dir
 sbuild is really not designed for *you yourself* to use as a chroot though
 it's designed to be used by the `sbuild` package builder
 sounds to me like you want a fully functioning chroot.
[20:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> Lol! It hasn't met me
[20:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> :P
 @teward001 [sounds to me like you want a fully functioning chroot.], schroot
 exactly
 but *not* an sbuild schroot
 @teward001 [but *not* an sbuild schroot], You're an schroot
[20:12] <The_LoudSpeaker> I want to keep everything of the dev work inside it. even sources
[20:12] <kc2bez> Not really
[20:12] <The_LoudSpeaker> It's okay if it deletes the required deps after successful fuilds tho
 @tsimonq2 [You're an schroot], not helpful
 so if you want those special directories in it, you'll PROBABLY have to alter the base debootstrap mechanism that creates the chroot
 such as... … sudo mount -o bind /proc /var/chroot/proc … sudo mount -o bind /home /var/chroot/home
 but this is untested i'm testing it now
 (following https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot#Setting-up_the_chroot though)
 (and not the sbuild guidelines)
[20:16] <The_LoudSpeaker> I follwed them for the chroot I have. 
 yeah so in THEORY
 `sudo mount -o bind /home /var/chroot/home` will make the home directory usable in the chroot
 which is what i'm seeing here in my test
 for a focal chroot
 but it's not an sbuild chroot 😜
 and if you WANT it to persist in the sbuild chroot you'd have to change the fstab mount rules
 or rather, the schroot rules for sbuild
[20:18] <kc2bez> Or scroll down tot he Other hints, tips and tricks section here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
 yep
 here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild#Mount_your_home_dir
[20:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> As I understand now, I need the packaging requirements on my host. Then I follow the packaging guide on host only just while building, instead of debuild -b --no-sign, I use sbuild ?
[20:20] <kc2bez> yes, that should work
 ^ that
 (if you want your home dir in your sbuild schroots btw, you have to alter your /etc/schroot/sbuild/fstab to have this line in it: `/home   /home   none    rw,bind         0       0`)
 (and then remake the sbuild chroots)
[20:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> Ah! I have to remake them?? I already did that 4 times today!!
[20:22] <The_LoudSpeaker> I have an idea, I will create a new dir in my host which I will bind as home for sbuild, work from there.
 well the sbuild fstab is configured for the build envs, if the envs are already built... :P
[20:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> meaning downloading, editing, cloning phab repo's etc
[20:24] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah I will have to remake the env
[20:24] <The_LoudSpeaker> *sigh*
 no, i mean the sbuild chroots
 not your entire system and envs
 :?
 :/ *
 i.e. the stuff you mk-sbuild with if that's what you're doing.
[20:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah that only,
[20:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> I did that 4 times today.
[20:26] <The_LoudSpeaker> everytime one or 2packages failed to download in that step
[20:26] <The_LoudSpeaker> thanks sophos.
 heh yeah Sophos can do evil like that
 'tis why I went with pfSense to power my business side of my network at home :
 p
 because I need DHCP-PD for v6 so :/
[20:32] <The_LoudSpeaker> Uggh! I was thinking I will sleep early today but well...
[20:34] <The_LoudSpeaker> Also sorry for spam, I direct all my queries about dev here in -devel. I think it's better than constantly pinging anyone of you.
[20:34] <kc2bez> This is the right place to discuss it.
[20:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks! :)
[20:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> Btw, it's called GOLDEN image I guess, came up after I created the new schroot.
[20:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> I got nano and also the locale right. 
[20:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> sounds good so far.
[21:00] <The_LoudSpeaker> !standup
[21:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> I thought I would sleep before tis so I spammed wxl with my paste an hour ago. XD
[21:01] <lynorian> \
[21:01] <lynorian> o
[21:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> o/
[21:01] <guiverc> o/
[21:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> should I paste away?
[21:05] <lynorian> yes
[21:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> one sec.
[21:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> here it goes:
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> Testing:
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Tested lubuntu-desktop^ and slick-greeter on a Raspberry Pi 3b. Didn't go exactly as planned so another one is needed.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> In Progress
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Creating sbuilds for focal and eoan.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Searching for captive portal checker on github.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> To-Do: (priority-wise)
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Xscreensaver-theme
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Xscreensaver dialoguebox
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * SRU grub-theme
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> To-Do: (untriaged)
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Get those Pi images for next release.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> MIsc:
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Fighting spam on lists
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> * Heading home for Diwali tomorrow. Will be afk for the next week.
[21:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks!
[21:07] <lynorian> captive portals are annoying
 Popup even when I am logged in, saying you are connected!
[21:08] <lynorian> I will paste now 
[21:08] <lynorian> add +x to score 
[21:08] <lynorian> add hyperlinks in libreoffice calc
[21:08] <lynorian> libreoffice cacl spcial character screenshot
[21:08] <lynorian> another spellcheck round
[21:08] <lynorian> fix warning and improper styling taht got published
[21:08] <lynorian> fixed firefox version
 But they are needed also, I don't always 2ant to open browser and go to portal and login.
[21:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> guiverc: knock knock!
[21:11] <guiverc> sorry I've done almost nothing, monitored & responded on askubu - but no real testing or checklist work in last week (one iso 20.04 iso boot only)
[21:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> you did a great job on the testing checklist
[21:11] <The_LoudSpeaker> thanks!
[21:21] <kc2bez> Oh geez it is Thursday.
[21:21] <kc2bez> o/
[21:22] <guiverc> my calendar reads friday... :)
[21:22] <kc2bez> That does sound better.
[21:22] <kc2bez> Here is my paste:
[21:22] <kc2bez> * Tested focal daily image in QEMU did a LUKS install and everything seems good so far.
[21:22] <kc2bez> * Installed `lubuntu-desktop` on Raspberry Pi 3b+ from server image. The results so far seem fairly decent. Started  from this guide https://bluesabre.org/2019/10/20/install-xubuntu-19-10-on-a-raspberry-pi-4/  (Thanks! bluesabre)
[21:22] <kc2bez> * Adapted the guide for Lubuntu. Will try to write something up in notes.lubuntu.me so we can collaborate on a doc. Might not be until this weekend at the earliest.
[21:23] <kc2bez> Still need to sort out audio over hdmi.
[21:23] <kc2bez> That is all from me.
 o\
[21:41] <The_LoudSpeaker> what does "-b" with debuild from packaging example do? I didn't find it in debuild --help 
[21:56] <kc2bez> It is a binary only build. See http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/eoan/man1/debuild.1.html and follow the example.
[22:21] <The_LoudSpeaker> I was tryiny to build using sbuild but this is what I get: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VvVkMsrHz4/
[22:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> I followed packaing guide. and instead of apt build-dep and debuild I ran sbuild -d focal-amd64 
[22:34] <wxl> oh i missed everytghing yay
[22:34] <wxl> well i didn't do anything anyways. good job everyone XD
[22:36] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker how many times do i need to tell you to use a container? all this stuff would be EASY
[22:36] <kc2bez> I fail to believe that you didn't do anything. :P
[22:36] <wxl> well i tried to file a bug against teward but that didn't work out
[22:37] <wxl> he's broken, though
[22:38] <kc2bez> E: DEPENDANCIESUNMET
[22:39] <kc2bez> The_LoudSpeaker: try just `sbuild`
 I shut it down now.
 Almost asleep.
[22:39] <kc2bez> sleep well
 Gonna nuke it all after returning from home and get lessons from wxl on containers. XD
 Goodnight everyone.
[22:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALdf4d004f23ab: Add Advanced networking to outline] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALdf4d004f23ab