[00:39] <Peter70> tomreyn, why do I want to list configured repositories? How does that relate to PPAs? (This may be a dumb question, but I really don't know.)
[00:40] <Peter70> I mean, I just listed configured repositories, and I don't know what to look for in the list.
[00:43] <tomreyn> Peter70: this can help you identify which PPA's you're using. PPAs are hosted on ppa.launchpad.net
[00:44] <tomreyn> it should also help you identify third party repositories (i.e. not those hosting ubuntu(studio) itself)
[00:44] <tomreyn> apt-cache policy | nc termbin.com 9999     if you'd like to share it
[00:46] <Peter70> I think my level of familiarity may be misread. For example:  I went to ppa.launchpad.net and had a look around. I have absolutely no idea how that's supposed to help me figure out which PPAs I have to remove before an upgrade or how to do it.
[00:47] <Peter70> I may be way too much of a newbie to reasonably expect the help I need from you guys here.
[00:49] <tomreyn> Peter70: hmm, sorry, maybe let's try something a little easier, if i can get this done right (i'm not very familiar with ubuntustudio myself). see if you can find an application called "Software and Updates".
[00:49] <tomreyn> If you can find it, click on the "Other Software" tab
[00:50] <Peter70> I can find that, yes.
[00:51] <tomreyn> this will list repositories which are not part of ubuntu. one of them should be the "UbuntuStudio Backports PPA" (it may be listed differently, like "http://ppa.launchpad.net/UbuntuStudio/backports ...")
 this will list repositories which are not part of ubuntu. one of them should be the "UbuntuStudio Backports PPA" (it may be listed differently, like "http://ppa.launchpad.net/UbuntuStudio/backports ...")
[00:54] <Peter70> Crap. I lost the entire conversation because I hit Refresh trying to get that tab back. For some reason now I can't go back to that tab.
[00:54] <tomreyn> !irclogs
[00:55] <Peter70> Now I have the tab back. Now what?
[00:55] <Peter70> What am I looking for?
[00:55] <tomreyn> see what i quoted above
[00:56] <tomreyn> if you have any ticked, then before upgrading ubuntustudio, it'd be wise to use the "ppa-purge" utility to disable all of these
[00:56] <Peter70> This is weird. According to the command on the command line I'm running 18.04, but this says 16.04.
[00:56] <tomreyn> this can be an old leftover, it's probably not ticked, so not in use
[00:57] <Peter70> There are only two items ticked.
[00:57] <tomreyn> so less work to be done ;)
[00:57] <tomreyn> !ppa-purge
[00:58] <tomreyn> i don't really have followed your conversation, though, and don't really know what your plans are
[00:58] <Peter70> I don't know what they are. Let's see if I can type them, because copy and paste doesn't work on those.
[00:58] <tomreyn> you can take and post a screenshot
 He's trying to upgrade to Ubuntu 19.10 from 18.10 I believe.
[00:58] <Peter70> http://packages.microsoft.com/repos/vscode stable
[00:59] <Peter70> And
[00:59] <tomreyn> thanks Go_Diego_Go
[00:59] <Peter70> http://dl.google.com/linus/chrome/deb/stable
[00:59] <tomreyn> Peter70: ok. can you confirm what Go_Diego_Go said?
[00:59] <Peter70> Those are the two ticked items.
[01:00] <Peter70> I want to upgrade from whatever I'm running (16.04 or 18.04, whichever you believe) to 19.04.
[01:01] <tomreyn> what does    lsb_release -ds     report?
[01:01] <tomreyn> (run it in a terminal)
[01:01] <Peter70> Hang on.
[01:01] <Peter70> 18.04.04 LTS
[01:01] <Peter70> I mean .03 LTS
[01:02] <Peter70> 18.04.3 LTS.
[01:02] <tomreyn> 18.04.3 LTS  :)
[01:02] <Peter70> Yep.
[01:02] <Peter70> So do those two ticked items I quoted present a problem?
[01:03] <Peter70> I'm guessing not.
[01:03] <tomreyn> not strictly a problem, but it's safer to remove them if you'd like to improve your chances of a flawless upgrade
[01:03] <Peter70> Okay. How do I do that?
[01:04] <tomreyn> that is, remove them *and* aany packages you installed from them
[01:04] <Peter70> Don't know what that means. To me these are just items on a list.
[01:04] <tomreyn> are you familiar with package management, yet?
[01:04] <Peter70> Nope.
[01:05] <tomreyn> have you previously used a different operating syste, such as windows or apple Os?
[01:05] <Peter70> Windows until like 6 years ago.
[01:05] <tomreyn> or android on a phone or tab?
[01:05] <Peter70> Android on my phone.
[01:06] <tomreyn> and did you install addiditonal apps there?
[01:06] <tomreyn> *additional
[01:06] <Peter70> But with Android there's no package management unless you mean installing apps from Google Play.
[01:06] <Peter70> Yes, I'm installed apps.
[01:06] <Peter70> And I've added apps in Ubuntu. Lots of them.
[01:07] <tomreyn> that's what i mean, yes. the process of installing applications from a repository is what you can consider software package management
[01:07] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:07] <tomreyn> android and most other proprietory operating systems only have a single central repository where software is offered
[01:07] <Peter70> Right.
[01:07] <Peter70> Especially Apple.
[01:08] <tomreyn> for ubuntustudio and the other ubuntu flavors there are the 'main' repositories, but you have a lot more to choose from.
[01:08] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:08] <Peter70> From the terminal only, you mean?
[01:09] <tomreyn> they differ in which software they offer, which versions of this software, which ubuntu(studio) version they are compatible with, how (well) this software is maintained, which type of computer they can be used on (ignore this part for now)
[01:09] <Peter70> I follow you so far.
[01:11] <tomreyn> coming back to the Software & Updates window you're looing at: the first tab, "Ubuntu Software", lets you choose a few things to determine which ubuntu(studio) repositories are best for you, based on location and some of your preferences.
[01:11] <Peter70> I imagine you're about to tell me how this relates to removing PPAs.
[01:12] <tomreyn> the second tab lists software that is not supported by ubuntu(studio). either it is supported by someone else (the ubuntustudio-backports repository is actually maintained by the ubuntustudio project, so that's an exception to the rule)
[01:12] <Peter70> By the second tab you mean Other Software?
[01:12] <tomreyn> hehe, yes, all the ones ticked on the second tab you want to remove before upgrading
[01:12] <tomreyn> yes
[01:12] <Peter70> Gotcha.
[01:12] <tomreyn> and you dont just untick them, but you should do a bit more (sorry!)
[01:13] <Peter70> Since they're already ticked, do I just click Remove?
[01:13] <tomreyn> so back to the ppa-purge utility. you can install this using a software package manager
[01:13] <Peter70> And will my PC run temporarily without them?
[01:13] <Peter70> Wait--install? I thought I was going to REMOVE them.
[01:14] <tomreyn> you install one software. this software can be used to manage those "other software" repositories.
[01:14] <Peter70> Why not just click on Remove?
[01:14] <Peter70> It's so tempting.
[01:14] <tomreyn> it will identify software you installed from these non-supported repositories and uninstall or downgrade this software to versions which are supported.
[01:15] <tomreyn> once that's done, you have a safer, better tested upgrade path
[01:15] <Peter70> Okay. So back to Terminal and install ppa-purge?
[01:15] <tomreyn> you can freely choose what to do on your system. most people will just ignore what i'm just telling you and start the upgrade nevertheless.
[01:15] <Peter70> Well, I'm not most people.
[01:15] <tomreyn> and sometimes those upgrades fail
[01:15] <Peter70> I'm Anomalous Man.
[01:16] <Peter70> So how do I install ppa-purge?
[01:16] <tomreyn> so yes, you can    sudo apt update && sudo apt install ppa-purge
[01:16] <Peter70> Hang on a sec.
[01:16] <tomreyn> if you're more of a graphical interfaces person i can also show you another software you can use for the purpose of managing installed software
[01:17] <Peter70> Well, I am, but I've already started the process residing blatantly and conspicuously outside my comfort zone.
[01:17] <tomreyn> or take a note on it for later: synaptic
[01:17] <Peter70> It's running.
[01:18] <Peter70> Processing...
[01:18] <Peter70>  Done.
[01:18] <Peter70> Did that remove the PPAs?
[01:18] <Peter70> It doesn't make an announcement.
[01:19] <tomreyn> ahem, sorry, i made a mistake. ppa-purge can only be used to remove (and downgrade packages from) "http://ppa.launchpad.net/..." entries in "Other Software". What you have chosen to install is not that.
[01:19] <Peter70> WHAT?
[01:19] <tomreyn> but you can keep ppa-purge for later, you'll surely need it again at some point
[01:19] <Peter70> Did I purge anything or not?
[01:19] <Peter70> I can't tell.
[01:20] <tomreyn> no, you only installed one software package: ppa-purge
[01:20] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:20] <Peter70> So what do you suggest?
[01:20] <tomreyn> actually, if the above was the only output, then you didn't even do that
[01:20] <Peter70> I didn't tell you all the output. It's Greek to me.
[01:20] <tomreyn> ok
[01:21] <Peter70> Why can't I click on Remove?
[01:21] <tomreyn> so... long talk, but i guess you shuld just disable the tickboxes and remember to reactivate them later.
[01:21] <Peter70> Those two things are ticked.
[01:21] <Peter70> If I'm removing those two items, how can I reactivate them later? They'll be gone, right?
[01:22] <tomreyn> clicking on "remove" would fully remove the registration of a software repository off your system (it's not just disabled afterwards)
[01:22] <tomreyn> instead, just untick them
[01:22] <Peter70> Now you're talking over my head again. No idea what that meant.
[01:23] <Peter70> Unticking them doesn't remove them, right?
[01:23] <Peter70> I thought I need to remove them.
[01:23] <tomreyn> correct, unticking disables.
[01:23] <tomreyn> no, don't remove, you'll probably want to re-enable them after upgrading
[01:23] <Peter70> Then I completely misunderstood how this works.
[01:23] <Peter70> Okay, I"ll untick them.
[01:24] <tomreyn> then "close"
[01:24] <Peter70> Wait. I'm getting an intuitive danger signal here.
[01:24] <tomreyn> i can guide you through properly cleaning this up, but i won't be able to explain it
[01:24] <Peter70> If I untick those two items, and I making some kind of general change in where I get my software and updates?
[01:24] <Peter70> Am I. Not and I.
[01:25] <Peter70> I want to be very cautious about global policy changes.
[01:25] <tomreyn> by unticking those two third party software repositories (google and microsoft vscode) you have prevented the system from receiving software from there for now.
[01:25] <Peter70> And why would I need to make such a change just to remove PPAs?
[01:26] <Peter70> I think I should understand this rather than just follow instructions piecemeal.
[01:26] <Peter70> I understand that asking you to explain all this is asking too much.
[01:26] <tomreyn> so release upgrades from one ubuntu version to the next are tested before they are enabled for us users. but the tests are only done using standard ubuntu software, not with software from PPAs installed.
[01:26] <Peter70> So it's not you--it's me. My gut is telling me I should study up before attempting this.
[01:27] <tomreyn> sounds good to me, i like the approach.
[01:27] <Peter70> I'll be honest--I've understood 20 percent of the content you've given me that tries to explain how this works.
[01:27] <Peter70> So I'll thank you, Tom. You've been patient.
[01:27] <tomreyn> you didn't have a chance to spend enough time to reqad all of it also
[01:28] <Peter70> I read it. I didn't study it.
[01:28] <Peter70> I had nothing to relate it to.
[01:28] <Peter70> What's the best way to get up to speed on this?
[01:28] <Peter70> I mean other than 10 years of experimenting.
[01:29] <tomreyn> the best way is really experimenting, occasionally breaking things, getting help repairing them
[01:29] <Peter70> I have a strong intuition you didn't learn this stuff without reference materials.
[01:29] <tomreyn> or repairing yourself if you can ;)
[01:30] <tomreyn> certainly not without reference materials
[01:30] <Peter70> Then what? What did you use?
[01:30] <tomreyn> there is plenty of documtation. all the commands you can type on the terminal are documented in so-called "man pages"
[01:30] <tomreyn> !man
[01:30] <wxl> ohai. so i'm curious if anyone here has had experience with using deken. it seems like a good idea (package management always does) but who knows?
[01:31] <Peter70> Okay. That will get me started. Thanks again, Tom.
[01:31] <tomreyn> Peter70: but you want to get started exploring the graphical interface first. So maybe start here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
[01:31] <Peter70> The graphical interface for what?
[01:31] <tomreyn> Peter70: as a reminder, synaptic is the software you can install for software package management
[01:32] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:32] <tomreyn> the graphical interface of your computer ;)
[01:32] <tomreyn> anything that's not a black box with text ;)
[01:32] <Peter70> I've been using Ubuntu Studio for 7 years.
[01:32] <tomreyn> oh, ok
[01:32] <tomreyn> then i'm surprised you didn't work with the terminal more, yet
[01:33] <Peter70> I'm a surprising guy.
[01:33] <tomreyn> but i understand not everyone likes to
[01:33] <tomreyn> and thats fine
[01:33] <Peter70> Guess I was more mission-oriented than you.
[01:33] <tomreyn> after all there's both, the graphical and the text command world ;)
[01:33] <tomreyn> for sure!
[01:33] <Peter70> Right. I was into DOS back in the day.
[01:34] <Peter70> Wrote some impressive batch files.
[01:34] <Peter70> Just never got into it in Linux.
[01:34] <tomreyn> ah, nice, well then the terminal should not be difficult to get a grip on
[01:34] <Peter70> Once I put some time into it.
[01:34] <tomreyn> dos commands are a lot more insane than those on linux
[01:34] <Peter70> Well, that's encouraging.
[01:35] <tomreyn> like this config.sys highmen emm386 stuff which never made sense
[01:35] <Peter70> Yeah.
[01:35] <Peter70> Gotta run. Thanks again.
[01:35] <tomreyn> *most* commands on the linux shell are a lot more logical. See you!
[01:36] <tomreyn> You're welcome.
[01:37] <tomreyn> wxl: "deken"? i never heard of it, and not finding much on the web
[01:37] <tomreyn> ah https://puredata.info/downloads/deken
[01:37] <tomreyn> is this a non-dead project?
[01:38] <tomreyn> ah here we go https://github.com/pure-data/deken
[01:39] <tomreyn> uuh tcl
[01:39] <tomreyn> oh just the plugin, so it's python 2.x, i guess
[01:42] <tomreyn> and it's python 3, i got it wrong again
[01:55] <wxl> tomreyn: sorry, rl called. yeah, that's it. i haven't used pd in a while but i don't remember that from when i did. seems interesting is all.
[01:56] <tomreyn> yes, looks simple, and, for the limited degree i can tell, good.
[01:56] <wxl> not sure why it's not a standard part of any pd metapackage.
[01:57] <tomreyn> i never used / looked into PD really
[01:57] <wxl> oh man it's fun
[02:01] <wxl> i was listening to autechre today and they have made max/msp a core part of their production methods… and it's derived from pd
[02:01] <tomreyn> i just read so on wikipedia
[02:03] <tomreyn> i'm also not actually into making computer music at all ;)   but i can see how vidaul programming could be very useful to computer music folks.
[02:03] <tomreyn> *visual
[03:15] <studiobot> <Yana Suryana> How to dual boot in ubuntu and windows 100 secure boot
[03:21] <tomreyn> "windows 100"?
[03:21] <tomreyn> which ubuntu version and variant?
 hi Yana  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVV_EoApdo
 Just got the notice that the 19.10 version is available, I should be able to upgrade without any major issues, right?
[15:15] <tomreyn> Go_Diego_Go: there's no guarantee that upgrades will succeed. they usually do, and you can improve the chances that they do, by making the system the upgrades start from one that is similar to those systems the upgrade was previously tested from.
[15:16] <tomreyn> i.a. purge all PPAs and the packages installed from there (use !ppa-purge), and do the same for third party reposiories (manually).
[15:17] <tomreyn> just disabling those repositories is insufficient to achieve this, since the software (and updated versions of software) from there will remain installed and can complicate matters for the apt resolver during upgrades.
[15:18] <tomreyn> apt-forktracer can https://github.com/tomreyn/scripts/#foreign_packages help you identify packages and package versions which should not be installed (or should be downgraded)
[15:31] <tomreyn> can -> and
[16:24] <Matt_u_zeneize> Hello, unfortunately, after my latest update (from ubuntustudio 19.04 to 19.10) I get some "delay" on the  monitor: some kind of fuzzy pixoels allover the screen, that makes it impossible to read anything for a few seconds. It didn't happen before. I am using a AMD GPU Ryzen 3 series I find no help in FAQ or community pages. Thank you for your
[16:24] <Matt_u_zeneize> advice
[16:31] <OvenWerks> does this also happen when you boot from the 19.10 iso into live mode? Have you done a software update since booting?
[16:33] <tomreyn> :-/
[16:40]  * OvenWerks didn't have time for a long conversation anyway...
 does this also happen when you boot from the 19.10 iso into live mode? Have you done a software update since booting?
[16:44] <tomreyn> Matt_u_zeneize: OvenWerks will need to leave soon, though, or maybe already did. I suggest looking for a bios upgrade. if it still happens then, come back and post your systemd journal (since the latest boot) to a pastebin, repeating the discussion of this problem.
[16:45] <tomreyn> journalctl -b | grep 'DMI:'    to get your current bios version and mainboard / computer model
[16:46] <tomreyn> i also got to leave for an hour or so now.
[16:48] <Matt_u_zeneize> thanks a lot! I'll do. P.S. I didn't try a live mode and I tried some updates, hoping to have some fitures, but without success. Bye