[18:03] <AppAraat[m]> corshmock: congrats! how did you make it work?
[18:04] <AppAraat[m]> hmc: Kdenlive?
[18:04] <AppAraat[m]> unrelated: How can I monitor ALSA for xruns? I found this (https://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/XRUN_Debug) but I think it's outdated since I don't have a `xrun_debug` where it should be.
[19:33] <OvenWerks> AppAraat[m]: the alsa xruns are mintored by the application using alsa.
[19:33] <OvenWerks> *monitored
[19:34] <OvenWerks> (or not as the application sees fit)
[19:35] <OvenWerks> xruns happen when the application doesn't deal with alsa in a timely manner
[19:37] <AppAraat[m]> ah, so the xrun monitoring of JACK was simply because JACK was being an ALSA app in that case. Interesting.
[19:37] <OvenWerks> yes
[19:38] <AppAraat[m]> thought it had to do with ALSA (sometimes?) not being able to deal with hardware in a timely manner
[19:39] <OvenWerks> alsa ends up being an API to allow alsa driven programs to access the hardware in a uniform manner.
[19:40] <AppAraat[m]> yeah in terms of (abstraction?) layers I understand it goes something like: hardware <-> ALSA <-> ALSA apps (JACK, Bitwig Studio, PulseAudio etc.)
[19:41] <AppAraat[m]> but mostly for pro audio it's something like: hardware <-> ALSA <-> JACK (ALSA app) <-> JACK apps (aka clients, like Bitwig Studio, PulseAudio, Ardour etc.)
[19:43] <OvenWerks> It can be, but unless you really want to use external jack applications as synths or effects, most of them can tie directly to alsa and use plugins instead.
[19:43] <OvenWerks> Ardour, for example, now recomends using alsa dirrect unless you wish to be able to hear desktop audio at the same time.
[19:44] <OvenWerks> (or use a jack only synth or effect)
[19:44] <OvenWerks> or tie to a sequncer
[19:48] <AppAraat[m]> heh, didn't know about Ardour recommending doing stuff on ALSA directly. Interesting. Although if "desktop audio" is an ALSA app then it can just use dmix, no?
[19:50] <AppAraat[m]> in which case it also obsoletes the need for JACK. So pretty much the "only" thing I need it for is having a soft mixer between JACK clients and JACK (for that audio interface that didn't support soft mixing lol)
[19:51] <OvenWerks> audio interfaces don't do soft mixing for the most part, they generally have software controlled hw mixing.
[19:52] <OvenWerks> The link from any pro-audio application to an audio device should not have a software mixer in between anyway.
[19:53] <AppAraat[m]> ah I see, and some audio interfaces can lack even that, right?
[19:53] <AppAraat[m]> oh, how so?
[19:53] <OvenWerks> Many audio interfaces just have hw controls (knobs) instead.
[19:54] <AppAraat[m]> yeah I guess mine does only have that
[19:54] <OvenWerks> For profesional audio you want the exact audio that leaves the ADC coming into your application
[19:55] <OvenWerks> Any level compensation should be done before th adc to prevent clipping
[19:56] <AppAraat[m]> That's in case of recording? Does soft mixing / volume control do anything destructive to the digital audio? Thought that was just volume adjustment.
[19:56] <OvenWerks> your application should take care of that and deal with any latency that step adds.
[20:00] <OvenWerks> Having a level control on the output is less of a problem for long as you have no outboard audio equipment that feeds audio back in to your application
[20:00] <OvenWerks> some people use external analog effects because they like the sound
[20:47] <AppAraat[m]> in case of external fx, what does it matter whether output is adjusted as long as its compensated back at the input stage?
[20:47] <OvenWerks> you loose headroom
[20:48] <OvenWerks> loose headroom = starting with 24 bit audio and ending up with 14 bit audio (as an example)
[20:49] <AppAraat[m]> hmm I see
[20:49] <OvenWerks> Better to use analog level changes after DAC and before ADC
[20:50] <AppAraat[m]> that would make the most sense yeah