 Merry Christmas to those who celebrate
 @kc2bez wxl When do we want to do Raman's grilling?
 I'm abstaining from voting until that's done :)
 Uh doodle poll
 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-devel/2019-December/001714.html
 What's Doodle? XD
 Now we just need Dan
 I should also bookmark mailing list archives. I think. :)
 @tsimonq2 [Now we just need Dan], I've checked some boxes.
 So tonight for me.
[11:14]  * The_LoudSpeaker fastens the armour
[11:18]  * RikMills looks for a big mace with armour piercing spikes...
 @The_LoudSpeaker now I have some time, do you have the logs of the conversation in #lxqt?
 Yup!
 One sec.
[13:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> [10:09 pm] <+afb3agaidaand  the problem is real but not that easy to fix - to be honest, it works most of the time fine but will need some structural changes in some data models 
[13:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> [10:10 pm] <+afb3agaidaso the priority isn't that high - there are a lot of other things to be cleaned up first
[13:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> [10:11 pm] <76b3The_LoudSpeakernoted. I will try to document and file a bug soon.
[13:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> [10:14 pm] <+afb3agaidait boils down to - the shortcuts should not be written to panel and runner configurations, only to shortcut handling - and only get from there 
[13:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> [10:16 pm] <+afb3agaidasetting these things from within an application is totally fine - will never work 100% safe without locking mechanisms, but fine until someone is willing to break this willingly
[13:18] <The_LoudSpeaker> There you go @hmollercl
 thanks
 honestly I don't remember which is the current problem, I mean right now on clean installation it works. So the problem only is when new panels are created?
 yup!
 and if user wants to change config from lxqt-globalkeys
 for runner and for panel
 there was a detailed discussion. agaida tested things himself and confirmed. I will pm you the detailed log.
 also, @teward001 the script to replace our packaging requirements is ready? I can test it. I just nuked the container which I used to use.
 creating one with a gui profile.
 Ugghhh! I kept my phone away and no arcanist asks me to provide api token which needs the 2FA authentication from my phone.
 *now
 @The_LoudSpeaker [there was a detailed discussion. agaida tested things himself and confirmed. I w …], mmm, that doesn't seems to be an easy fix to do it ourselves. I would document it clear in the manual. to avoid mistakes and leave it as known bugs.
 @HMollerCl [mmm, that doesn't seems to be an easy fix to do it ourselves. I would document i …], yup! we should do that for eoan. For focal, I think we can push upstream for a fix maybe? wxl ? we can anyway always put it in focal's manual i needed. :P
 @The_LoudSpeaker [creating one with a gui profile.], Now I can use sublime from container. yay!
 How did I author this? I don't see a diff linked.https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTGLOBALKEYSPACKAGING8d14dd93bcc80f95cf12cd04ad932091de9c5194
 I forgot actually. 😁 Can someone remind me how we pick latest git from upstream?
 sorry, haven't done that, only patches.
 I need to find exact commit which was done before we (I) picked from upstream that day. Then create a patch from that to commit defining latest release.
 afaik there are no changes.
 But how do we confirm?
 oh wait.
 there are many changes.
 prior to picking the git, we were using 0.14.1
 with our own versions appended
 the pick was just before upstream's 0.14.2
 But final version released is 0.14.3
 so i need to make a patch from 0.14.2 to 0.14.3
 @kc2bez [I've checked some boxes.], So @kc2bez wxl that's 11:30 AM Central today?
 yes, 12:30 Eastern
 Sounds good. Technically there's two of us needed for quorum but all three is great too :)
 The more the merrier :D
 @RikMills @teward001 @HMollerCl etc. while y'all don't have final voting rights, you're welcome to attend and participate in the grilling :)
 I will have guests about that time, so looks like I can't 😢
 @RikMills [I will have guests about that time, so looks like I can't 😢], You're welcome to leave questions here too... ;)
 The source which I had fixed got lost when I deleted the container. :(
 while applying `git diff COMMIT COMMIT^ > patchname.patch` which commit is written first? the start one or the end one?
 @The_LoudSpeaker [while applying git diff COMMIT COMMIT^ > patchname.patch which commit is written …], Doing this gets a patch which undoes COMMIT
 If you want a patch that applies COMMIT, reverse the two
 okay.
 Because it's saying "given this base COMMIT, produce a diff that gets me to ANOTHER COMMIT"
 yeah so it should take 2 different commits as input na?
 Your original command says "given the base of COMMIT, give me the diff to get back to COMMIT^"
 @The_LoudSpeaker [yeah so it should take 2 different commits as input na?], Correct
 the one without "^" is the destination commit right?
 No! it is the start one
 It goes git diff ORIGINAL DESTINATION
 @The_LoudSpeaker [No! it is the start one], Yeah :)
 *facepalms*
 Thanks!
 No worries
 also what about this: … `ubuntu@focal-dev:~/lxqt-globalkeys$ git apply --check ~/release.patch --3way … error: config/translations/lxqt-config-globalkeyshortcuts_gl.ts: does not exist in index`
 I just got that when I tried a correct patch.
 That's not something I'd be able to tell you off the top of my head, hm
 Have you tried cherry picking patches instead of manually creating a patch and re-applying it?
 Earlier I had created a patch using gitk and that did not apply but the one created when using correct git diff command as you specified, gives me this^
 @tsimonq2 [Have you tried cherry picking patches instead of manually creating a patch and r …], Nope. Not cherry picking. But let me try something. one sec
 idk why but this doesn't apply: … `git diff 76eace1f491b14ab3f1b0c688493ca3a11d22ebd 9ae09e4684e8daae19eceef8548c3cd31abd1bef`
 This should work na? 🤔
 OH WAIT.
 I know why it isn't
 probably
 no.
 :(
 I will just clone from MoM, fix it, commit locally. then create a patch and apply it to clone from phab.
 https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/packaging/packaging_for_new_upstream_releases/
[16:41] <The_LoudSpeaker> wow! How did I miss this doc when I searched on phab earlier?
 that's for releases, not git verson
[16:42] <The_LoudSpeaker> tho I did have the idea of modifying the version in changelog and then running uscan
[16:43] <The_LoudSpeaker> Yeah true @hmollercl
[16:46] <The_LoudSpeaker> but it can be applied here i think
[16:55] <The_LoudSpeaker> How do I do the copyright update?
[16:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> scan for changes in the diff created between versions? in this case the patch that I created from out pick to the latest release?
 Let's get this rolling here
 wxl @kc2bez roll call?
[17:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> o/
[17:35] <kc2bez> o/
 Walter might be late
 So basically, our goal is to ask you questions to ensure that you're qualified to be a Lubuntu Developer
[17:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> ready.
 This could last up to an hour and ends when there are no more questions for you
 Answer each question to the best of your ability
[17:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> understood.
 Dan, want to go first or should I?
[17:36] <kc2bez> I can go.
[17:37] <kc2bez> First question.
[17:37] <kc2bez> Which pocket does an upload go to for the development series?
[17:38] <The_LoudSpeaker> proposed
[17:38] <The_LoudSpeaker> I am not sure
[17:38] <kc2bez> proposed is the answer.
[17:38] <The_LoudSpeaker> ufff.
[17:39] <kc2bez> Simon do you want to go?
 At what point in the cycle should you be careful not to introduce any new features, and what day is that for the 20.04 cycle?
[17:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> The point is Feature freeze
[17:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> and for the date, give me a sec.
[17:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> feb 27
 Correct.
 Dan?
[17:42] <kc2bez> What is the rationale for a SRU?
[17:44] <The_LoudSpeaker> The update should be very very stable and shoudn't cause regressions in any way. users expect a high degree of stability
[17:44] <kc2bez> That is true.
[17:45] <kc2bez> I have a follow-up to that.
[17:45] <The_LoudSpeaker> Any update shouldn't cause any problems in their day to day activities. instead it should improve their experience. Fot that, the SRU should be extremly stable
[17:46] <kc2bez> Also true.
[17:46] <kc2bez> Here is my follow-up:
[17:46] <kc2bez> Does a SRU make sense even if a bug is not high impact?
[17:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> If the bug is a low impact one, it doesn't make sense to push the fix. there are costs of network and time for downloading updates. it should be worth it.
[17:49] <kc2bez> Possible regressions should play a factor too.
[17:49] <kc2bez> It is a judgement call though.
[17:49] <kc2bez> Simon?
[17:49] <The_LoudSpeaker> examples of such bugs are those which do not affect users at run time. they should be instead staged and released along with other high impact fixes.
 What is the name of the tool which does Proposed Migration in Debian and Ubuntu, what is the criteria for a package to migrate to the release pocket in Ubuntu, and for bonus points, what pop culture reference does it come from? (If you can't answer the last one, that's okay.)
[17:52] <The_LoudSpeaker> The proposed-migration scripts do the migration in Debian an Ubuntu.
[17:52] <The_LoudSpeaker> The criteria is as follows:
[17:52] <The_LoudSpeaker> 1. must be built and published on all supported architectures.
[17:53] <The_LoudSpeaker> 2. all the dependencies must be already satisfied or should be installed along with the package.
[17:54] <The_LoudSpeaker> 3. there should be no bugs with the tag "block-proposed" against the package
[17:55] <The_LoudSpeaker> 4. the package or its binaries should pass the reverse-dependencies test in autopkgtests
[17:55] <The_LoudSpeaker> 5. finally, the introduction of the package shouldn't break any packages already in release package
[17:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> don't know the pop culture reference.
 The answer I was looking for is https://youtu.be/elueA2rofoo - the rest is acceptable, thanks. XD
 Dan?
[17:58] <The_LoudSpeaker> britney spears. ggwp!
 XD
[17:58] <kc2bez> Which of those 5 do you need for the package to be considered a valid candidate?
[17:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> 1, 2 and 4
[17:59] <kc2bez> correct.
[17:59] <kc2bez> Did Walter make it here yet?
[17:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> nope I think.
 I don't think so
[17:59] <kc2bez> ok 
[17:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> I just pinged him.
[18:00] <kc2bez> Simon?
 This is more of a nuanced question but one worth exploring nonetheless: what's the difference between the Archive Admins and the Release Team, and where do you find who is in each?
[18:04] <The_LoudSpeaker> I am not completely sure about the roles of archive admins. Release team moderates the SRUs , mointor new relases of (l/x/k)ubuntu and they are the ones you can go to if you want to get your packages into proposed without satisfying "valid candidate" and to get features in after freezes.
[18:04] <The_LoudSpeaker> you can find who is which team by looking at their launchapad pages.
 Archive Admins accept packages from the NEW queues, Release Team can let packages in. SRU Team, while it has some overlap in members from other teams, is its own team
 And, into the release pocket, not proposed :)
 Dan?
[18:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> yup. released. my bad.
[18:06] <kc2bez> What is the general process for a feature freeze exception?
[18:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> the request should be filed as bug against the package in launchpad with status of "NEW" The request shoul contain the following information:
[18:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> 1. enough description of changes to gauge the impacts
[18:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> 2. a section explaining benefits from the changes
[18:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> 3. additional information that could be useful to take the decision.
[18:11] <kc2bez> sounds good. Simon?
 Why is it important to always do high quality work and ask if you're unsure before uploading? Who does it reflect on, who does it impact, and what levers would you be able to pull?
[18:15] <The_LoudSpeaker> It is important because changes one makes affect a large variety of users who expect a stable and high definition experience from the ubuntu and its flavours. As a developer making those changes, one should make sure they meet the expectations. It reflects the quality of the work done by the developer himself.
[18:15] <The_LoudSpeaker> I am not sure I understand the last part of the question.
 As in, how are you able to influence Lubuntu and Ubuntu as a whole with developer powers?
[18:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> With developer powers, I have the ability to change the user experience drastically, even with small changes. Thus, it is a huge responsiblity. As user experience ultimately leads to the image of Lubuntu and Ubuntu as a whole in the minds of the users.
 Nice answer. I'm ready to vote
 Dan?
[18:19] <wxl> wait a minute
[18:19] <wxl> it's time for my traditional trick question
 Look who decided to show up XD
 Okay
[18:19] <kc2bez> go wxl
[18:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> yay! sensei is here finally!
[18:20] <wxl> well first thing's first. how do you upload a change to the archive?
[18:23] <The_LoudSpeaker> as a lubuntu-dev I can only make changes to packages that are in lubuntu packageset. to make changes, I should find the source of the package in ubuntu. can be phab or launchpad in case of lubuntu packages. I should make changes locally. push them through arcanist or bzr. 
[18:24]  * The_LoudSpeaker fingers crossed.
[18:25] <wxl> ok so let's say you're going to play sponsor for someone
[18:25] <wxl> how do you upload their changes?
[18:26] <The_LoudSpeaker> wait. I can also use dput. But I don't currently have much idea about how to do that.
[18:26] <wxl> yep, that's the right answer
[18:26] <The_LoudSpeaker> to upload changes for someone I am sponsoring, I should check and accept their diffs on phab.
[18:27] <wxl> dput is also used to upload where?
[18:27] <The_LoudSpeaker> arc land
[18:27] <The_LoudSpeaker> one sec. I will say the whole process
[18:27] <wxl> naw that's good
[18:28] <wxl> but outside of the archive, what can you use dput for? uploading where?
[18:28] <The_LoudSpeaker> uploading to ppas
[18:29] <wxl> nice
[18:29] <The_LoudSpeaker> I did that with lubuntu-grub-theme
[18:29] <wxl> if you do not specify a location in dput, what happens? where does it upload to?
[18:30] <The_LoudSpeaker> goes to ubuntu archives by default.
[18:31] <wxl> so how are you going to keep yourself from mistakenly uploading to the archive when you mean to go to a ppa? :)
[18:31] <The_LoudSpeaker> put a local dput file for ppa. or edit the /etc/dput.cf
 (I've done that btw, it's embarrassing)
 Me too
[18:32] <wxl> oh you're prepared. nice.
[18:32] <wxl> ok, i'm ready.
 Me too. Dan?
[18:32] <kc2bez> I have nothing further, I am ready.
 Voting in
 5
 4
 3
 2
 1
 +1
[18:33]  * The_LoudSpeaker armour waiting for rikmills
[18:33] <kc2bez> +1
[18:33] <wxl> +1
 Congratulations @The_LoudSpeaker on becoming the fourth Lubuntu Developer!
[18:33] <kc2bez> \o/
 I'll add him on LP real quick
[18:33] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks!
[18:34] <wxl> good job :)
[18:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks! 
 congrats @The_LoudSpeaker
[18:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> also, I just remembered https://phab.lubuntu.me/P53 being open in one of the 30 tabs I had. wxl: you think It can be applied directly ? This was created from MoM
[18:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks! @hmollercl
 @HMollerCl [congrats @The_LoudSpeaker], Now where's your application? XD
 @tsimonq2 [Now where's your application? XD], https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/lubuntu-dev/applications/theloudspeaker/
 No, Hans'
[18:38] <kc2bez> XD
 XD
 @The_LoudSpeaker [https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/lubuntu-dev/applications/theloudspeaker/], it's in the future..
 @The_LoudSpeaker [<The_LoudSpeaker> Thanks!], Congrats
[18:39] <kc2bez> Congratulations @The_LoudSpeaker
 Thanks! @kc2bez @RikMills
 Now go upload your own stuff XD
 @RikMills where is your mace?
 @tsimonq2 [Now go upload your own stuff XD], XD tomorrow morning. gotta sleep now. :)
 I think the better question is where @RikMills' core dev app is 😆
 @The_LoudSpeaker [XD tomorrow morning. gotta sleep now. :)], Have fun!
 wait. while we were talking, I think the build I put succeded. And i managed to bump the version of lxqt-globalkeys I think.
 one query: we don't have .mailman folder right?
 @The_LoudSpeaker [one query: we don't have .mailman folder right?], * . mailmap
 @The_LoudSpeaker [also, @teward001 the script to replace our packaging requirements is ready? I ca …], No, having some issues getting the arc scripts installed, because git clone is inefficient
 and can't get it into a PPA in a way that works
 @teward001 [No, having some issues getting the arc scripts installed, because git clone is i …], No you
 @tsimonq2 [@RikMills @teward001 @HMollerCl etc. while y'all don't have final voting rights, …], E:CONTEXT
 oh dev membership
 *is still waking up today*
 @The_LoudSpeaker [wait. while we were talking, I think the build I put succeded. And i managed to …], nvm this.
 @tsimonq2 wxl, I changed the sleep time in lubuntu-update-notifer, changelog should be updated to 0.2 or 0.1ubuntu1 ?
 0.2 since it's a native package
 Only quilt packages or Ubuntu revisions of native packages in Debian use ubuntu
[19:45] <wxl> oh hey while you're at it trim down the short name
[19:45] <wxl> !info lubuntu-update-notifier
[19:45] <wxl> er short desc
[19:45] <wxl> you can see it cuts off there
 ok
 I already pushed a commit changing the time (forgot the changelog), can/should I use the same commit or should I use a new on?
 *one
[19:47] <wxl> packaging guide says "certainly under 80" but clearly you're limited to 62
 @HMollerCl [I already pushed a commit changing the time (forgot the changelog), can/should I …], Use a new one
[19:48] <wxl> commit messages don't really matter all that much.. not like changelog entries
 wxl: so Description in control is short desc?
[19:50] <wxl> Description is both, technically
[19:51] <wxl> see here https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/calamares/browse/ubuntu%252Ffocal/debian/control$52
[19:52] <wxl> you can see that the remainder of the "Description" line is the short desc
[19:52] <wxl> while the remainder of the file (what follows right after the "Description" line and is prepended by spaces with periods to indicate blank lines) is the long desc
[19:53] <wxl> so in this case the long desc includes the short desc, but it's got a capital d. indeed we find the short one here: https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/calamares
 ok, thanks. I remember I had to make it longer because lintian was complaining
[19:54] <wxl> debian's package tool shows the whole thing https://packages.debian.org/sid/calamares
[19:55] <wxl> so the packages tool is called "packages." go figure. https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/packages
[19:56] <wxl> https://lintian.debian.org/tags/description-too-short.html doesn't seem to be too difficult to resolve :)
[19:57] <wxl> and here's one re: long desc but not as severe https://lintian.debian.org/tags/extended-description-is-probably-too-short.html
 @tsimonq2 pulled, need something else to appear in the daily?