/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2020/01/07/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

=== gQuigs is now known as bryanquigley
jibelmorning everyone06:17
dufluMorning jibel06:24
seb128gooood morning desktopers!08:28
Mirvmornings. do you have plans to switch to Enchant 2 in 20.04, or a plan not to switch? it's been a few years in coming to Debian/Ubuntu.08:29
Mirv(I'd guess no at this point, and that's just fine)08:30
dufluHi seb128 and Mirv!08:31
seb128hey duflu, how are you?08:31
Mirvhey duflu08:31
dufluseb128, going well, finally getting back into Mutter after the BlueZ adventure. You?08:31
seb128duflu, sorry for hijacking your flicker bug to request that kernel option, seems to have turned into a confusing process for you fighting with the kernel team workflow08:31
WimpressMorning o/08:32
seb128duflu, I'm good!08:32
seb128hey Wimpress, how are you? ready for design hackfest?08:32
dufluHi Wimpress08:32
dufluseb128, I don't know what you mean so shall wait for the bug mail08:32
dufluOh, right, flicker-free boot08:32
seb128Mirv, bigon was looking at it on the Debian side before the holidays iirc, would probably be good to switch ... do you know what other distributions are doing in that regard?08:32
dufluNo problem. We agreed the change was good. Just also keep the bug open08:32
seb128duflu, I should have opened a new bug to request the option in retrospect08:33
dufluI didn't want to go as far as to reject the kernel update with verification-failed so expected it08:34
Mirvseb128: yes it landed to sid + focal on holidays. Fedora has switched, openSUSE did not switch to Leap 15 or 15.1, but seems to have mostly in this Tumbleweed (Inkscape still pulls in Enchant 1 as well)08:37
Mirvhello Wimpress08:37
seb128Mirv, ah, good, well then we can do the transition now :-)08:38
seb128bigon, hey, happy new year! now that enchant-2 is in unstable, do you plan to migrate $things to it?08:40
bigonseb128: hey, happy new year to you too. I'm was just looking at empathy right now, before going to $work (and.. I'm late already)08:50
bigonit's already fixed in webkit git08:50
seb128bigon, no hurry, I was just wondering if there is anything blocking or if we should transition things as we update them ... sounds like we can transition, thx!08:51
bigonthere are 3 packages that would require an update to the last version of gspell at the same time to avoid loading enchant(1) and enchant-2 in the same binary08:51
bigonthere is some (tiny) porting to do as they removed the deprecated functions08:52
seb128ah, good point08:52
seb128I can have a look to that transition if you want08:52
seb128let me know, I don't want to dup work you already plan to do08:53
bigonhttps://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=947979 and https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=94793008:53
ubot5Debian bug 947979 in release.debian.org "transition: enchant-2" [Wishlist,Open]08:53
ubot5Debian bug 947930 in release.debian.org "transition: gspell" [Normal,Open]08:53
seb128cool08:54
Laneymoin moin moin09:02
dufluMorning Laney09:03
Mirvbigon: hmm actually correcting my above Fedora statement, it seems Fedora 31 does install also enchant 1 still, even though only used by ibus-typing-booster, which depends on python3-enchant they haven't migrated to enchant-2. also similar to openSUSE Tumbleweed installing Inkscape brings in enchant 1 as well.09:03
didrockshey hey09:04
Mirv(playing around on live DVD)09:04
Mirvhey Laney & didrocks09:04
seb128hey Laney, didrocks, how are you today?09:05
bigonMirv: main applications like evolution, gnome-builder, ... are already supporting both at build time09:05
bigonfor the other the porting is not looking too hard at 1st glance09:05
Mirvyes it seems distro world is 90%+ migrated but dual install still the norm a bit like long time with python 2+3.09:07
Laneyhey duflu Mirv didrocks and bigon09:13
Laneyseb128 left so he doesn't get a hi09:13
Laneydidrocks: all settled in ok?09:14
didrockshey Mirv! Long time no see :)09:17
didrocksLaney: yeah, thanks! After some (un-well-rather-)expected hurdles in the way, arrived ok, just later than planned09:18
Laney:(09:19
Laneybut glad you made it09:19
Laneyare the yaru people there already?09:19
Laneysay hi from me!09:19
didrocksyeah, they are around. I'll pass the hello once Wimpress finishes the intro ;)09:20
Laneywb & hi seb12809:33
oSoMoNgood morning desktoppers!09:35
oSoMoNhappy new year!09:36
dufluMorning oSoMoN, happy new year09:42
oSoMoNhey duflu09:42
seb128hey oSoMoN, bonne annรฉe, how were the holidays? had a good year start?09:49
oSoMoNseb128, bonne annรฉe! the year started well indeed, I'm rested and I've enjoyed a lot of family time. How are you?09:50
seb128oSoMoN, same here!09:50
seb128duflu, you should probably gave up on bug #1836858 , use it as a repurposed for the kernel config change and re-open a new one09:53
ubot5bug 1836858 in linux (Ubuntu) "i915: Display flickers (monitor loses signal briefly) during "flickerfree" boot, while showing the BIOS logo on a black background" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183685809:53
seb128duflu, the bug reference is included in the changelog of a SRU that got accepted, the tooling and process are not flexible and I doubt they will reupload a kernel only to change the bug reference09:54
dufluseb128, that would be technically incorrect and maybe even more confusing. I'm happy to keep reopening and clarifying it09:54
seb128rather than fighting bots and processes it's easier to just reopen a bug imho09:54
dufluThe bots will stop soon09:54
seb128duflu, well, I screwed and renamed/repurposed your bug wrongly to be about the kernel config option, so my mistake, but what is technically right doesn't matter much at this point09:55
seb128either we keep creating issues over the status or just accept that bug got handled wrongly, repurpose and re-open one09:55
dufluseb128, my other motivation is that we already have the community subscribed to that bug. I would rather not have to explain it to them and move to a new one09:56
seb128or we keep creating problem for us, kernel team and SRU teams by fighting over tags & status09:56
seb128k, well at least tag it verification-done to not block the kernel SRU then09:56
bigonLaney: hey09:56
seb128duflu, the verification-failed tag will block the SRU as invalid which we really don't want09:57
* duflu untags09:57
=== cking_ is now known as cking
seb128thx09:57
seb128oSoMoN, chrisccoulson, bug #1854363 looks like something that might be worth a follow up bionic upload since it a regression from the previous security update?10:04
ubot5bug 1854363 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "[upstream] Typo in thunderbird code prevents central configuration" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185436310:04
oSoMoNI haven't checked whether the fix has been released yet, and if it does fix the problem, but the upstream bug report isn't marked fixed10:06
Laneyhey oSoMoN, happy new year10:07
oSoMoNhey Laney, how was your holiday?10:07
Laneyquite nice thanks, had family here for a bit, visited other family and then went to Wales for the new year!10:08
Laneyplayed a lot of mario kart there :>10:08
oSoMoNcool10:10
TrevinhoBuon anno! :)11:30
oSoMoNgood morning Trevinho, happy new year!11:40
Trevinhoyou too oSoMoN11:40
tomreynhappy 2020 desktoppers!11:42
tomreynthere's something that i (being distant from the development processes) just do not understand - maybe you canhelp me get a better understanding: there are those fatal problems people keep facing during desktop installations, which seem to have not been tackled in years. why is this (this is not criticism, i'm trying to understand)?11:47
tomreynwell you probably have so much to do with the standard tasks, this will be why. but, maybe it's worth holding back on the regular work for a while and focussing installation problems.11:50
tomreynSorry for spamming your channel, I wrote this up here in a more readable way. https://www.writeurl.com/publish/96unbxhadua3b6s05a9c12:22
jibeltomreyn, for 1. it's been discussed on https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/defaulting-to-verify-the-image-integrity-before-installing-on-desktop/1347212:46
jibeland happy 2020 to you too :)12:49
tomreynthanks for both, jibel12:50
jibelfor 2. it's very hard to know in advance if grub will fail to install on a specific user setup. I agree that triaging and classifying grub reports is useful to identify patterns and fix installation issues. any help welcome but it requires a fair amount of expertise to do such triage.12:52
tomreynonce it's clear where grub will write to, a test write could take place, and the result examined, this could happen early during the phase of the installation where no more user input is possible.12:56
tomreynthis would already provide a much better UX than having to wait throughthe installation (which can still take long on old hardware) and have it end with "grub failed, have a nice life."12:57
tomreyni guess this is not a verbatim quote ;-)12:57
jibelbut then it's already too late and too early at the same time. At this point the disk has already been formatted, filesystem is being copied and you need the target filesystem to be populated to install grub on it.12:58
jibelI admit the error message is a bit dry and user friendliness could be improved13:00
tomreynmy point there is you'd not need to have the user sit it out.13:00
tomreyna nicer error message, hinting on what to do next, could also help, yes.13:00
tomreyna unfortunately not uncommon support scenario is a user who has at long last made the decision to move over from windows, owns a single usb stick which currently contains the ubuntu installer (and possibly not the latest version of it), had the installer overwrite any reaminders of windows, and then runs into this message at the very end of the installation.13:06
hellsworthgood morning desktopers!14:29
kenvandineGood morning14:29
oSoMoNgood morning hellsworth, kenvandine14:30
oSoMoNand happy new year!14:30
hellsworthhi! and happy new year :)14:30
seb128good morning U.S14:30
seb128#startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-0714:30
meetingologyMeeting started Tue Jan  7 14:30:40 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.14:30
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick14:30
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-07 | Current topic:
seb128Roll call:  didrocks (off), duflu (off), heather, jamesh, jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson (out), oSoMoN, tkamppeter (out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)14:31
oSoMoNo/14:31
seb128happy 2020, I hope everyone had nice holidays14:31
kenvandineo/14:31
Laneyyo14:31
hellsworth\o14:31
seb128k, let's get started14:32
seb128#topic rls-bb-bugs14:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-07 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
seb128http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html14:32
seb128bug #185436314:32
ubot5bug 1854363 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "[upstream] Typo in thunderbird code prevents central configuration" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185436314:32
seb128that's a regression for the update uploaded to security before the holidays, I tagged it14:32
seb128it's not going to impact most users but still it's a LTS regression and has been reported14:33
seb128I vote +1 to accept it :)14:33
oSoMoNsounds reasonable14:33
seb128oSoMoN, thx14:33
seb128since we have the maintainer agreement, let's move on!14:34
seb128bug #185589314:34
ubot5bug 1855893 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Properly let PCM leave suspended state when hardware doesn't support PCM resume" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185589314:34
seb128it's an oem team request and seems reasonable14:35
seb128I vote +1 to accept it14:35
seb128other opinions?14:35
hellsworthseems like a reasonable suggestion14:35
hellsworth+114:35
seb128thx, moving on then14:36
seb128http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html14:36
seb128the only unassigned one are the NMs ones we said we would discuss in another meeting but didn't do yet14:37
seb128I'm going to skip that14:37
seb128I'm also going to skip disco at this point, doesn't make sense to upload new SRUs for that serie now14:37
seb128#topic rls-ee-bugs14:38
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-07 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
seb128http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html14:38
seb128no desktop entries14:38
seb128http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html14:38
seb128some leftover triaging, I will deal with those after the meeting14:39
seb128#topic rls-ff-bugs14:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-07 | Current topic: rls-ff-bugs
seb128http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html14:39
seb128no desktop ones14:39
seb128http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html14:40
seb128only n-m there as well to triage14:40
seb128#topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages14:40
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-07 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
seb128update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages14:40
seb128ups14:40
seb128https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages14:40
seb128Laney, your turn14:40
Laneythx14:41
Laneyone second, browser is being sad14:41
Laneyok14:42
Laneythere's a few for tjaalton in there, assuming those are being handled or will be after this ping ;-)14:42
Laneyso evolution-data-server (ftbfs) fonts-smc (mir?) brotli (i386 something) libxcb (something) pcsc-lite (dunno)14:43
seb128I did the font MIR this morning14:43
seb128I can do libxcb it's another test that need crossarch use of pkg-config/gcc14:44
Laneythat looks like the normal thing14:44
hellsworthwhat do you do about the ones that are here because of regressions?14:44
LaneyI will take the brotli one and ping LocutusOfBorg about pcsc-lite since he synced it14:44
hellsworthdo they sit here until the regressions have been fixed?14:44
Laneyyeah14:44
Laneybut those xorg/mesa ones are for Timo14:45
seb128I would argue e-d-s should be fixed by vorlon since he broke it by doing i386 hacks, I will ping him14:45
Laneyok, I didn't know if he just got unlucky being the next uploader14:45
seb128tjaalton, ^ please confirm that you at looking at those14:45
Laneyalready did ping him a second ago, no need to pile on14:45
Laneyanyway someone pls take the font one14:46
seb128k14:46
seb128<seb128> I did the font MIR this morning14:46
hellsworthi'll take a look at fonts-smc14:46
hellsworthoh right14:46
Laneyah cool thx14:46
hellsworthwhat about pcsc-lite?14:46
seb128https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-smc-gayathri/+bug/185862014:46
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1858620 in fonts-smc-gayathri (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-smc-gayathri" [Undecided,New]14:46
LaneyI was going to ping the person who synced it and see if they will look14:46
hellsworthmakes sense14:46
hellsworthif you hit a dead end with that person, i'm happy to take a look14:47
seb128sounds like we are good for this round then14:47
hellsworthi wanted to mention libmail-dkim-perl14:47
seb128oh, snapd-glib ftbfs also, unsure if that's for Robert14:47
tjaaltonseb128: if you mean xserver/mesa/glvnd landing on focal, yes14:47
seb128tjaalton, thx14:47
kenvandineseb128: looks like a flaky test in snapd-glib14:48
seb128kenvandine, maybe retry it then?14:48
kenvandinei kicked a rebuild a few minutes ago and it looks like it passed14:48
seb128ah ok14:48
seb128nice14:48
hellsworthboth libmail-authenticationresults-perl and libscalar-list-utils-perl ahve been looked at by the security team and suggest they are accepted. i'm not sure what further steps there are to actually get them in.14:48
kenvandinewell... "nice"14:48
kenvandinehate flaky tests14:48
seb128right14:48
Laneyfile a bug about it?14:48
Laneyin general I don't look at those greyed out ones, (1) in case things sort themselves out, (2) to give people a chance to do it themselves without being hassled14:49
seb128@perl MIR, it looks like the MIR team/cpaelzer were fine with those14:49
Laneylooks like people don't agree with that policy?14:49
hellsworthseb128: right so what's the next step to get them into main?14:50
cpaelzer?14:50
seb128but maybe ping cpaelzer about it on #ubuntu-devel just to know if he consider those as +1 now14:50
seb128cpaelzer, sorry, I forgot you were there :)14:50
cpaelzerI'm trying to be everywhere14:50
* Laney looks under the sofa14:51
cpaelzertrying to ...14:51
seb128cpaelzer, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmail-authenticationresults-perl/+bug/1853175 got a +1 from security team, we were wondering if that need to bounce back to you to gave the final +1 next?14:51
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1853175 in libmail-authenticationresults-perl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmail-authenticationresults-perl" [Undecided,New]14:51
cpaelzerchecking ...14:51
seb128cpaelzer, and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libscalar-list-utils-perl/+bug/185484914:51
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1854849 in libscalar-list-utils-perl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libscalar-list-utils-perl" [Undecided,New]14:51
seb128thx14:51
seb128k14:51
seb128Laney, I think we can call it done for that section of the meeting?14:51
hellsworthcpaelzer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libscalar-list-utils-perl/+bug/1854849 too14:51
Laneyok14:52
seb128thx14:52
seb128@topic AOB14:52
seb128#topic AOB14:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-01-07 | Current topic: AOB
Laneywould be good to consider my previous comment14:52
seb128anything else to discuss today?14:52
cpaelzerseb128: Both had the MIR Team ack already14:52
seb128Laney, sorry I didn't see your question earlier, crossed discussions14:52
hellsworthLaney: I agree that the grey ones might sort themselves out so not looking at them until they become bold makes sense to me14:52
cpaelzerseb128: and if we wollow the little state chart onhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam#Process_states14:52
cpaelzerthat means after security ack (which we got) they are good to go14:53
cpaelzerIf the changes are already in proposed that pulls things in "Fxi Committed"14:53
seb128cpaelzer, k, that chart has them as "fix commited" when they are good o go so I was unsure14:53
cpaelzerif the changes are not there yet "In Progress"14:53
hellsworthoh ok thank you very much!14:54
cpaelzersecurity Team doesn't want to change states, so we have to clean them up after their reviewed most of the time14:54
seb128Laney, but yeah, ignoring the grey ones makes sense to me14:54
seb128they are often in flux indeed14:54
seb128cpaelzer, k, which is what made me unsure/to ping :)14:54
cpaelzerwell done :-)14:54
seb128cpaelzer, thx for clarifying14:54
cpaelzerhellsworth: so set the state whatever matches the current upload state14:55
cpaelzerand once things show up in component-mismatches (which might be now already) get the attention of your favourite AA14:55
hellsworthwhat is an AA?14:55
hellsworthsorry, i'm new here :)14:55
kenvandinearchive admin14:55
cpaelzerthanks kenvandine14:56
seb128k14:56
Laneythey can execute the move to main14:56
hellsworthok14:56
cpaelzerhellsworth: from this chat the closest AA to ask might be seb128 :-)14:56
seb128right :)14:56
hellsworthoh ok cool :)14:56
seb128I will have a look after the meeting14:56
seb128any other topic?14:56
kenvandinemy favorite AA :)14:56
cpaelzeroh meeting - then sorry to interrupt - cpaelzer out14:56
seb128lol14:57
seb128cpaelzer, to be fair we are the ones who summoned you :)14:57
seb128thx for responding/helping us to get those MIRs sorted out!14:57
hellsworthok made them fix committed. thanks for the advice, yall14:57
cpaelzeronly because I try to get under Laneys couch to scare him14:57
seb128and it looks like we have no other topic for the meeting, so let's wrap now14:57
seb128thanks everyone!14:57
hellsworththanks!14:57
oSoMoNthanks14:58
seb128#endmeeting14:58
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc
meetingologyMeeting ended Tue Jan  7 14:58:21 2020 UTC.14:58
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-01-07-14.30.moin.txt14:58
oSoMoNhellsworth, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members for a list of archive admins14:58
hellsworthAh thanks for that useful tidbit oSoMoN14:59
LaneyTrevinho: could you prep the stuff for gnome-shell/eoan pls?15:00
TrevinhoLaney: ok15:00
Laneyand weren't there some mutter bugs that needed updating?15:00
Laneythanks ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ˜˜15:01
Trevinhomh, need to look, but i think they should be all set15:01
Trevinhoiiiirc15:01
Laneywoohoo first systemd commit https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/625077264ba01a108386eeea733ee244e6b7ff1417:43
hellsworthnice Laney ! that's something to be proud of for sure :)17:48
Laney:>17:59
Laneynight homies17:59
hellsworthcheers!18:00
=== _thumper_ is now known as thumper

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